Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[CandySlice]

Sorry, but that is where you are wrong... on both counts. You have accepted the risk both of pregnancy and of a home invasion. You leaving the door unlocked is accepting the risk that you believe is minimal of having your home invaded. You are in fact accepting and taking that risk.

The best argument you can make her is that abortion is the insurance that you have taken out to combat the risk that you have accepted when you have sex. And that is what makes abortion in these cases a matter of convenience.

Immie

And having a gun in my home is my insurance against home invasion. When I shoot the intruder, is it simply a "matter of convenience"?

Why do you and others insist on belittling the process of pregnancy, delivery and raising a child? Have you ever delivered a child, Immie? Ever risked stroke or eclampsia? Ever had to vomit 6 times a day for 9 months, forcing your employer to find someone that didn't need to do that? I have. Twice. My risk to assume and if I hadn't been willing to go through that, I should have been able to remove the cause. It's my body. I don't owe it to anyone. Without regard to biology or anyones moral rigidity.

No, if you were not willing to go through that, you should not have had intercourse. There are other ways to sexually gratify your partner without actually having intercourse. You made your choice the moment you allowed your partner entry into your body.

Man! Did that sound graphic or what? Sorry.

Immie

Now THAT sounds like a man, fer sure!! Never mind YOU, just don't leave MY needs unattended. LOL

 

[Immanuel]

The actual rate is 1.2 million a year and I'm guessing they aren't saying it's "rare" yet. That is less than 3% of the population.

The very worst parent to have is one that doesn't want you. Why advocate for that kind of parenting?

Why advocate for that kind of parenting?

Because the alternative is advocating the killing of an innocent human being. I will not advocate that!

Do I think life would be grand for such a child? No, I don't, but at least it is life. Who knows what good will come to that child or from that child? I advocate adoption in such a case, but truthfully, I believe that most women in "crisis pregnancies" who go through with the pregnancy end up being great mothers to the child they considered killing. They're scared when they contemplate taking that life, but once the decision is made, the child is born and life goes on, they end up being fabulous moms.

No, they aren't saying it is rare yet, but they are not truly advocating anything that will actually reduce it either. It is nothing but a "feel good" slogan. Trying to win the hearts and minds of the public. In the same manner as declaring me to be "anti-woman" or "anti-choice" because I fight against the "choice" of killing an innocent human being. Or in the same manner as "my" side attempting to make your side seem like monsters by declaring you "pro-abortion".

Immie

My God, you must be the most the most naive person on earth. The shelters and orphanages in this country are packed full of abused and abandoned children whose parents had no other choice but to have them.
Also noticed you had nothing further to say regarding my question.

You assume that any of the parents of those children would have chosen abortion or even considered abortion. And you call me naive?

What question did I miss?

Immie

 

[CandySlice]

And having a gun in my home is my insurance against home invasion. When I shoot the intruder, is it simply a "matter of convenience"?

Why do you and others insist on belittling the process of pregnancy, delivery and raising a child? Have you ever delivered a child, Immie? Ever risked stroke or eclampsia? Ever had to vomit 6 times a day for 9 months, forcing your employer to find someone that didn't need to do that? I have. Twice. My risk to assume and if I hadn't been willing to go through that, I should have been able to remove the cause. It's my body. I don't owe it to anyone. Without regard to biology or anyones moral rigidity.

It's always so easy to pass moral judgement on people when you aren't personally involved.

Have I passed judgment on you or mom?

I disagree with what you are supporting, but I do not believe I have passed judgment on either one of you any more than you have passed judgment upon me.

Immie

Like I said before, I support the RIGHT if not the actual act of terminating a pregnancy. YOU are passing judgement on an entire segment of the population without ever having had the unhappy misfortune to find yourself in such dire straights. I wonder if being a woman would neutralize your thinking? Or maybe make you think at all? It's easy to judge when you have no possibility of ever having to make such a decision. Wish I had that kind of ecclesiastical white-out at my disposal. (wink)

 

[Immanuel]

No, they aren't saying it is rare yet, but they are not truly advocating anything that will actually reduce it either. It is nothing but a "feel good" slogan. Trying to win the hearts and minds of the public. In the same manner as declaring me to be "anti-woman" or "anti-choice" because I fight against the "choice" of killing an innocent human being. Or in the same manner as "my" side attempting to make your side seem like monsters by declaring you "pro-abortion".

Immie

Again, from my local Planned Parenting site.

Our Services
Planned Parenthood provides direct medical care and family planing services to more than 50,000 women, men and teens each year.


Our health services include:

emergency contraception
comprehensive birth control and contraceptive services
testing and treatment for STDs
hepatitis vaccinations
HIV testing and counseling
cancer screenings (breast and cervical, testicular and prostate)
HPV vaccinations
colposcopy and cryotherapy
vasectomies
annual GYN exams
Announcing Fall 2010 Insemination Services.

We also provide options counseling and abortion care through Reproductive Health Services.

None of those services reduce unwanted pregnancy other than abortion?

Seriously?

Did you even realize than in the event you are pregnant and choose to have the child that PP will hook you up with every social service known to man?

Want to end abortion? Force every male to make a sperm deposit at 15 and then mandatory vasectomy.

That would really reduce the number of abortions.

None of those services reduce unwanted pregnancy other than abortion?

All of those services promote sexual promiscuity and lead to unwanted pregnancies followed by abortions!

Want to end abortion? Force every male to make a sperm deposit at 15 and then mandatory vasectomy.

Screw that shit! I would no sooner promote that women be forced to be sterilized? Why should I suffer because some women refuse not to spread their legs or some assholes can't keep their ding-a-lings in their pants?

Did you even realize than in the event you are pregnant and choose to have the child that PP will hook you up with every social service known to man?

I realize that is what you and they claim. In reality, they rush women into clinics not even wanting to allow them the time to "think it over" and end the question before the woman has the chance to come to her senses.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Also, for the record, I do not recognize those men (all of whom I believe resorted to violence) as being what I would consider "pro-life".

Well of course there is always the possibilty they just liked blowing things up and killed for the fun of it but I wouldn't try to push that idea past any intelligent thinking people.

No, my point is that you can not be "pro-life" and then go out an kill or attempt to kill people you don't agree with. Stopping them through force of law is one thing. Stopping their lives is in a whole other galaxy.

Immie

Well you wouldn't think so, would you?? But you know what happens when people decide they know whats best for everybody else.

Like you deciding that you know what is best for me by telling me:

Until you grow a vagina of your own keep your nose out of mine.

Basically, you were attempting to remove my right to free speech... by the way, that right is actually listed in the Constitution.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

And having a gun in my home is my insurance against home invasion. When I shoot the intruder, is it simply a "matter of convenience"?

Why do you and others insist on belittling the process of pregnancy, delivery and raising a child? Have you ever delivered a child, Immie? Ever risked stroke or eclampsia? Ever had to vomit 6 times a day for 9 months, forcing your employer to find someone that didn't need to do that? I have. Twice. My risk to assume and if I hadn't been willing to go through that, I should have been able to remove the cause. It's my body. I don't owe it to anyone. Without regard to biology or anyones moral rigidity.

No, if you were not willing to go through that, you should not have had intercourse. There are other ways to sexually gratify your partner without actually having intercourse. You made your choice the moment you allowed your partner entry into your body.

Man! Did that sound graphic or what? Sorry.

Immie

Now THAT sounds like a man, fer sure!! Never mind YOU, just don't leave MY needs unattended. LOL

Hey, in the first place, I didn't say anything about not satisfying the lady. I am told intercourse is not the only way a woman can achieve ecstasy.

Second, I confess, I'm a selfish male. So sue me!

Immie

 

[CandySlice]

No, they aren't saying it is rare yet, but they are not truly advocating anything that will actually reduce it either. It is nothing but a "feel good" slogan. Trying to win the hearts and minds of the public. In the same manner as declaring me to be "anti-woman" or "anti-choice" because I fight against the "choice" of killing an innocent human being. Or in the same manner as "my" side attempting to make your side seem like monsters by declaring you "pro-abortion".

Immie

Again, from my local Planned Parenting site.




None of those services reduce unwanted pregnancy other than abortion?

Seriously?

Did you even realize than in the event you are pregnant and choose to have the child that PP will hook you up with every social service known to man?

Want to end abortion? Force every male to make a sperm deposit at 15 and then mandatory vasectomy.

That would really reduce the number of abortions.

All of those services promote sexual promiscuity and lead to unwanted pregnancies followed by abortions!

Want to end abortion? Force every male to make a sperm deposit at 15 and then mandatory vasectomy.

Screw that shit! I would no sooner promote that women be forced to be sterilized? Why should I suffer because some women refuse not to spread their legs or some assholes can't keep their ding-a-lings in their pants?

Did you even realize than in the event you are pregnant and choose to have the child that PP will hook you up with every social service known to man?

I realize that is what you and they claim. In reality, they rush women into clinics not even wanting to allow them the time to "think it over" and end the question before the woman has the chance to come to her senses.Immie

Immy, again you are commenting on ground you've never trodded. I've been to planned parenthood before and do you know what was the first thing they told those girls? Abortion is NOT an acceptable form of birth control. The counseling was first rate and there were all manner of alternatives offered. Nobody was 'rushed' anywhere. You need to limit your comments to subjects you are familiar with. Just sayin.

 

[CandySlice]

No, if you were not willing to go through that, you should not have had intercourse. There are other ways to sexually gratify your partner without actually having intercourse. You made your choice the moment you allowed your partner entry into your body.

Man! Did that sound graphic or what? Sorry.

Immie

Now THAT sounds like a man, fer sure!! Never mind YOU, just don't leave MY needs unattended. LOL

Hey, in the first place, I didn't say anything about not satisfying the lady. I am told intercourse is not the only way a woman can achieve ecstasy.

Second, I confess, I'm a selfish male. So sue me!

Immie

Believe me, I know the species. 'Let me tell YOU how to act but I'M special. Don't mess with MY dogma!!'

 

[Immanuel]

Again, from my local Planned Parenting site.




None of those services reduce unwanted pregnancy other than abortion?

Seriously?

Did you even realize than in the event you are pregnant and choose to have the child that PP will hook you up with every social service known to man?

Want to end abortion? Force every male to make a sperm deposit at 15 and then mandatory vasectomy.

That would really reduce the number of abortions.

All of those services promote sexual promiscuity and lead to unwanted pregnancies followed by abortions!



Screw that shit! I would no sooner promote that women be forced to be sterilized? Why should I suffer because some women refuse not to spread their legs or some assholes can't keep their ding-a-lings in their pants?

Did you even realize than in the event you are pregnant and choose to have the child that PP will hook you up with every social service known to man?

I realize that is what you and they claim. In reality, they rush women into clinics not even wanting to allow them the time to "think it over" and end the question before the woman has the chance to come to her senses.Immie

Immy, again you are commenting on ground you've never trodded. I've been to planned parenthood before and do you know what was the first thing they told those girls? Abortion is NOT an acceptable form of birth control. The counseling was first rate and there were all manner of alternatives offered. Nibody was 'rushed' anywhere. You need to limit your comments to subjects you are familiar with. Just sayin.

They also deny that choosing to abort because the mother is not ready for a child is birth control. What would you call it if not "birth control"? Oh wait, I know... Family Planning!

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Now THAT sounds like a man, fer sure!! Never mind YOU, just don't leave MY needs unattended. LOL

Hey, in the first place, I didn't say anything about not satisfying the lady. I am told intercourse is not the only way a woman can achieve ecstasy.

Second, I confess, I'm a selfish male. So sue me!

Immie

Believe me, I know the species. 'Let me tell YOU how to act but I'M special. Don't mess with MY dogma!!'

I'm taking the and guessing that your just trying to have fun with me and push my buttons.

Immie

 

[CandySlice]

All good points Immy but let me ask you this. Have you ever had an abortion? I have. I was 15 years old and my father insisted on it. It wasn't legal back then and it was hell on earth. I had an actual doctor in attendance who could have lost his medical licence for 'helping us out' and it created a rift between my family and I that wasn't resolved for decades. I became a 'womens rights' advocate on that very day and I will never change. There is no way to describe the pain and humiliation and misery I suffered that day and for whatever reason I hope no woman ever has to again. The reasons aren't important.

Have I ever had an abortion? I have to confess. I am one of those evil men that you think "want to rescind women's rights and send us all back to the kitchen", so, no I have never had an abortion. Nor has my wife, nor either one of my two daughters. I have I will confess though much to my shame, counseled a friend of my wife who called me for advice. I told her that she should do what she felt was in her best interest. This was before I became "pro-life". She did and she has not spoken to us since.

If you don't mind, I would prefer not to comment on the rest of this post. Nothing I can say will sound right and I don't particularly care to have you "not speak to me since". Make sense?
Immie

Fair enough. So I will leave you with this. Until you grow a vagina of your own keep your nose out of mine.

If you don't mind, I would prefer not to comment on the rest of this post. Nothing I can say will sound right and I don't particularly care to have you "not speak to me since". Make sense?


PS, the OP accused us of not being honest. I just laid a weeks worth of honesty on you folks and you act like it's a dead animal carcass. Puleeze.
Let me know when you really wanna talk turkey as opposed to mouthing platitudes you can't back up with experience.

 

[CandySlice]

Hey, in the first place, I didn't say anything about not satisfying the lady. I am told intercourse is not the only way a woman can achieve ecstasy.

Second, I confess, I'm a selfish male. So sue me!

Immie

Believe me, I know the species. 'Let me tell YOU how to act but I'M special. Don't mess with MY dogma!!'

I'm taking the and guessing that your just trying to have fun with me and push my buttons.

Immie

Naw. It's not personal. Im just having a weekend message board rant about something I feel strongly about. Good arguments are hard to come by. Don't think I'm being anything but bombastic.
PS I didn't know that was a razz, but it kinda fits.

 

[Immanuel]

Have I ever had an abortion? I have to confess. I am one of those evil men that you think "want to rescind women's rights and send us all back to the kitchen", so, no I have never had an abortion. Nor has my wife, nor either one of my two daughters. I have I will confess though much to my shame, counseled a friend of my wife who called me for advice. I told her that she should do what she felt was in her best interest. This was before I became "pro-life". She did and she has not spoken to us since.

If you don't mind, I would prefer not to comment on the rest of this post. Nothing I can say will sound right and I don't particularly care to have you "not speak to me since". Make sense?
Immie

Fair enough. So I will leave you with this. Until you grow a vagina of your own keep your nose out of mine.

If you don't mind, I would prefer not to comment on the rest of this post. Nothing I can say will sound right and I don't particularly care to have you "not speak to me since". Make sense?


PS, the OP accused us of not being honest. I just layed a weeks worth of honesty on you folks and you act like it's a dead animal carcass. Puleeze.
Let me know when you really wanna talk turkey as opposed to mouthing platitudes you can't back up with experience.

FYI: I did not write the OP. You did in fact lay out your personal experiences and I can tell from experience with other friends on these sites who have laid out that very same honesty that they will eat you alive for your honesty. I, personally, do not want to be part of that and since I had no idea what you wanted me to say, I chose to skip any response at all. Nothing I can say will change the events that happened.

Do you want me to condemn your family? I don't know them.

Do you want me to condemn you? I don't know what you have gone through.

Do you want me to tell you that you made a good decision? It doesn't sound like you had a decision to make.

Do you want me to say, I am sorry? Sorry, doesn't cut it.

Do you want me to tell you that everything will be okay? It sounds like you have worked through the issue yourself.

Am I willing to discuss it if you so choose? Sure, but, until I know where you want to go with that, I'm not going to push your buttons in that realm. My being an asshole to you about it won't help either one of us.

Immie

 

[Shadow]

All good points Immy but let me ask you this. Have you ever had an abortion? I have. I was 15 years old and my father insisted on it. It wasn't legal back then and it was hell on earth. I had an actual doctor in attendance who could have lost his medical licence for 'helping us out' and it created a rift between my family and I that wasn't resolved for decades. I became a 'womens rights' advocate on that very day and I will never change. There is no way to describe the pain and humiliation and misery I suffered that day and for whatever reason I hope no woman ever has to again. The reasons aren't important.

Have I ever had an abortion? I have to confess. I am one of those evil men that you think "want to rescind women's rights and send us all back to the kitchen", so, no I have never had an abortion. Nor has my wife, nor either one of my two daughters. I have I will confess though much to my shame, counseled a friend of my wife who called me for advice. I told her that she should do what she felt was in her best interest. This was before I became "pro-life". She did and she has not spoken to us since.

If you don't mind, I would prefer not to comment on the rest of this post. Nothing I can say will sound right and I don't particularly care to have you "not speak to me since". Make sense?

Immie

Fair enough. So I will leave you with this. Until you grow a vagina of your own keep your nose out of mine.

As long as you keep your nose out of everyone elses vagina. See...pro abortion people do not "own" the female "vagina" or this argument...even if they "think" they do. You don't get to speak for everyone...nice try though.

 

[taichiliberal]

It's always so easy to pass moral judgement on people when you aren't personally involved.

Have I passed judgment on you or mom?

I disagree with what you are supporting, but I do not believe I have passed judgment on either one of you any more than you have passed judgment upon me.

Immie

Like I said before, I support the RIGHT if not the actual act of terminating a pregnancy. YOU are passing judgement on an entire segment of the population without ever having had the unhappy misfortune to find yourself in such dire straights. I wonder if being a woman would neutralize your thinking? Or maybe make you think at all? It's easy to judge when you have no possibility of ever having to make such a decision. Wish I had that kind of ecclesiastical white-out at my disposal. (wink)

Ahh, but as you know there are those women who think it is there right to tell other women what to do when it comes to the legal right to choose abortion or not. Hell, there are women who feel it is their moral obligation as decreed by GOD (via their church leader) to tell women not to have pre-marital sex, and NOT to use contraception...EVER.

What I find hysterical are the "statistics" used on both sides of the aisle....one says abortion decreases crime, the other says opposite....forget the FACT that a lousy economy coupled with racism, sexism, a competitive society with limited resources and opportunities, a fractured educational system...are heavy contributing factors to crime rise and falling, especially among the poor.

Bottom line: IMHO, if this society were to stop the misogynist BS and treat sex education they way they treat indoctrinating kids about sports stats....and treated contraception to teenagers like they do junior driver's licenses and military recruitment...then maybe one day we'll live in a world were abortion is indeed a rarity. Of course, you have to clean up poverty, corruption and racism too. Oh well, I guess I won't live to see it.

Until then, it's a choice, and a private one.

 

[Immanuel]

Have I passed judgment on you or mom?

I disagree with what you are supporting, but I do not believe I have passed judgment on either one of you any more than you have passed judgment upon me.

Immie

Like I said before, I support the RIGHT if not the actual act of terminating a pregnancy. YOU are passing judgement on an entire segment of the population without ever having had the unhappy misfortune to find yourself in such dire straights. I wonder if being a woman would neutralize your thinking? Or maybe make you think at all? It's easy to judge when you have no possibility of ever having to make such a decision. Wish I had that kind of ecclesiastical white-out at my disposal. (wink)

Ahh, but as you know there are those women who think it is there right to tell other women what to do when it comes to the legal right to choose abortion or not. Hell, there are women who feel it is their moral obligation as decreed by GOD (via their church leader) to tell women not to have pre-marital sex, and NOT to use contraception...EVER.

What I find hysterical are the "statistics" used on both sides of the aisle....one says abortion decreases crime, the other says opposite....forget the FACT that a lousy economy coupled with racism, sexism, a competitive society with limited resources and opportunities, a fractured educational system...are heavy contributing factors to crime rise and falling, especially among the poor.

Bottom line: IMHO, if this society were to stop the misogynist BS and treat sex education they way they treat indoctrinating kids about sports stats....and treated contraception to teenagers like they do junior driver's licenses and military recruitment...then maybe one day we'll live in a world were abortion is indeed a rarity. Of course, you have to clean up poverty, corruption and racism too. Oh well, I guess I won't live to see it.

Until then, it's a choice, and a private one.

Well said TL.

One of the reasons I tried to avoid CS's honesty was because I do believe it is a private decision. I do not like to sound like I am condemning anyone for their choice. I'll argue with them about their viewpoint... but, when CS became honest, then anything and everything I say from that point on begins to sound judgmental. At that point, I seemed to be damned if I do and damned if I don't discuss it.

I have my beliefs about the issue and if I had my choice in the matter, both sides would be working together to make abortion rare. Both sides need to agree to come together and brainstorm on the issue. They need to be willing to work together. Unfortunately, the two parties won't allow that to happen.

Immie

 

[CandySlice]

Like I said before, I support the RIGHT if not the actual act of terminating a pregnancy. YOU are passing judgement on an entire segment of the population without ever having had the unhappy misfortune to find yourself in such dire straights. I wonder if being a woman would neutralize your thinking? Or maybe make you think at all? It's easy to judge when you have no possibility of ever having to make such a decision. Wish I had that kind of ecclesiastical white-out at my disposal. (wink)

Ahh, but as you know there are those women who think it is there right to tell other women what to do when it comes to the legal right to choose abortion or not. Hell, there are women who feel it is their moral obligation as decreed by GOD (via their church leader) to tell women not to have pre-marital sex, and NOT to use contraception...EVER.

What I find hysterical are the "statistics" used on both sides of the aisle....one says abortion decreases crime, the other says opposite....forget the FACT that a lousy economy coupled with racism, sexism, a competitive society with limited resources and opportunities, a fractured educational system...are heavy contributing factors to crime rise and falling, especially among the poor.

Bottom line: IMHO, if this society were to stop the misogynist BS and treat sex education they way they treat indoctrinating kids about sports stats....and treated contraception to teenagers like they do junior driver's licenses and military recruitment...then maybe one day we'll live in a world were abortion is indeed a rarity. Of course, you have to clean up poverty, corruption and racism too. Oh well, I guess I won't live to see it.

Until then, it's a choice, and a private one.

Well said TL.

One of the reasons I tried to avoid CS's honesty was because I do believe it is a private decision. I do not like to sound like I am condemning anyone for their choice. I'll argue with them about their viewpoint... but, when CS became honest, then anything and everything I say from that point on begins to sound judgmental. At that point, I seemed to be damned if I do and damned if I don't discuss it.

I have my beliefs about the issue and if I had my choice in the matter, both sides would be working together to make abortion rare. Both sides need to agree to come together and brainstorm on the issue. They need to be willing to work together. Unfortunately, the two parties won't allow that to happen.

Immie

I don't really think taking away a womans right's as declared by Roe vs Wade is a step forward. As for telling others what to do, don't be silly. I'm all about NOT doing that. But the law is in place. Why rescind it? And to who's benefit would that be if we did? Im for GIVING choices, NOT taking them away.
As for sex education, why is it we also want to hold back on that? Somebody (woof woof) said indoctrinate the kids with sexual truths as we do with the importance of sports. I really like that idea. Take the mystery and bugaboo out of it and lay some facts on our kids instead of what I've found here today. 'Oh, we can't talk about that, we might hurt somebodies feelings' Trust me, the kids are probably wiser about it than any of us are. And for those of you that found the first part of my story disconcerting, God knows the second part would kill you so I'll spare you.

 

[CandySlice]

Like I said before, I support the RIGHT if not the actual act of terminating a pregnancy. YOU are passing judgement on an entire segment of the population without ever having had the unhappy misfortune to find yourself in such dire straights. I wonder if being a woman would neutralize your thinking? Or maybe make you think at all? It's easy to judge when you have no possibility of ever having to make such a decision. Wish I had that kind of ecclesiastical white-out at my disposal. (wink)

Ahh, but as you know there are those women who think it is there right to tell other women what to do when it comes to the legal right to choose abortion or not. Hell, there are women who feel it is their moral obligation as decreed by GOD (via their church leader) to tell women not to have pre-marital sex, and NOT to use contraception...EVER.

What I find hysterical are the "statistics" used on both sides of the aisle....one says abortion decreases crime, the other says opposite....forget the FACT that a lousy economy coupled with racism, sexism, a competitive society with limited resources and opportunities, a fractured educational system...are heavy contributing factors to crime rise and falling, especially among the poor.

Bottom line: IMHO, if this society were to stop the misogynist BS and treat sex education they way they treat indoctrinating kids about sports stats....and treated contraception to teenagers like they do junior driver's licenses and military recruitment...then maybe one day we'll live in a world were abortion is indeed a rarity. Of course, you have to clean up poverty, corruption and racism too. Oh well, I guess I won't live to see it.

Until then, it's a choice, and a private one.

Well said TL.

One of the reasons I tried to avoid CS's honesty was because I do believe it is a private decision. I do not like to sound like I am condemning anyone for their choice. I'll argue with them about their viewpoint... but, when CS became honest, then anything and everything I say from that point on begins to sound judgmental. At that point, I seemed to be damned if I do and damned if I don't discuss it.

I have my beliefs about the issue and if I had my choice in the matter, both sides would be working together to make abortion rare. Both sides need to agree to come together and brainstorm on the issue. They need to be willing to work together. Unfortunately, the two parties won't allow that to happen.

Immie

In a perfect world, Immy. Which, unfortunately we'll never see. Life is messy. And full of unpopular decisions that should NOT be hampered by some windbag politician or some 'I know better than you so SHUT UP' wanker that has no idea where the reality of the situation lies.

 

[Immanuel]

Ahh, but as you know there are those women who think it is there right to tell other women what to do when it comes to the legal right to choose abortion or not. Hell, there are women who feel it is their moral obligation as decreed by GOD (via their church leader) to tell women not to have pre-marital sex, and NOT to use contraception...EVER.

What I find hysterical are the "statistics" used on both sides of the aisle....one says abortion decreases crime, the other says opposite....forget the FACT that a lousy economy coupled with racism, sexism, a competitive society with limited resources and opportunities, a fractured educational system...are heavy contributing factors to crime rise and falling, especially among the poor.

Bottom line: IMHO, if this society were to stop the misogynist BS and treat sex education they way they treat indoctrinating kids about sports stats....and treated contraception to teenagers like they do junior driver's licenses and military recruitment...then maybe one day we'll live in a world were abortion is indeed a rarity. Of course, you have to clean up poverty, corruption and racism too. Oh well, I guess I won't live to see it.

Until then, it's a choice, and a private one.

Well said TL.

One of the reasons I tried to avoid CS's honesty was because I do believe it is a private decision. I do not like to sound like I am condemning anyone for their choice. I'll argue with them about their viewpoint... but, when CS became honest, then anything and everything I say from that point on begins to sound judgmental. At that point, I seemed to be damned if I do and damned if I don't discuss it.

I have my beliefs about the issue and if I had my choice in the matter, both sides would be working together to make abortion rare. Both sides need to agree to come together and brainstorm on the issue. They need to be willing to work together. Unfortunately, the two parties won't allow that to happen.

Immie

I don't really think taking away a womans right's as declared by Roe vs Wade is a step forward. As for telling others what to do, don't be silly. I'm all about NOT doing that. But the law is in place. Why rescind it? And to who's benefit would that be if we did? Im for GIVING choices, NOT taking them away.
As for sex education, why is it we also want to hold back on that? Somebody (woof woof) said indoctrinate the kids with sexual thruths as we do with the importance of sports. I really like that idea. Take the mystery and bugaboo out of it and lay some facts on our kids instead of what I've found here today. 'Oh, we can't talk about that, we might hurt somebodies feelings' Trust me, the kids are probably wiser about it than any of us are. And for those of you that found the first part of my story disconcerting, God knows the second part would kill you so I'll spare you.

I'll ask you the same question I asked snjmom a couple hours ago: where have you seen me promote making abortion illegal? Where have I called for overturning Roe?

Also, I am a proponent of Sex Ed and yes, I am one of those evil men that believe we should teach abstinence... ALONG with sex education... alongside it not in place of.

You are falling into the liberal trap of putting words in people's mouths.

Did I say I found your story disconcerting? No, I said I don't want to be an asshole to you, so I would rather not discuss it with you. At least at a point when I have only just "met" you. I know nothing about you.

The last person that was honest on this site, flipped out several times when she became honest.

So sue me for trying to be sensitive to your feelings.

Immie

 

[CandySlice]

Have I ever had an abortion? I have to confess. I am one of those evil men that you think "want to rescind women's rights and send us all back to the kitchen", so, no I have never had an abortion. Nor has my wife, nor either one of my two daughters. I have I will confess though much to my shame, counseled a friend of my wife who called me for advice. I told her that she should do what she felt was in her best interest. This was before I became "pro-life". She did and she has not spoken to us since.

If you don't mind, I would prefer not to comment on the rest of this post. Nothing I can say will sound right and I don't particularly care to have you "not speak to me since". Make sense?

Immie

Fair enough. So I will leave you with this. Until you grow a vagina of your own keep your nose out of mine.

As long as you keep your nose out of everyone elses vagina. See...pro abortion people do not "own" the female "vagina" or this argument...even if they "think" they do. You don't get to speak for everyone...nice try though.

Nope, I speak for no vagina but my own.