Why did Romney Lose?

[Greenbeard]

Bottom line of the bill Romney signed:

Romneycare has been successful at what it set out to achieve (which did not include systematic cost control). If there's a complaint on that front it's that it wasn't ambitious enough--but wouldn't we have to pin that timidity on the state leadership at the time?

1. Give consumers MORE control over their health care spending. Current group health care model is about the worst way to control spending.

If you want people out of the group market you're going to need a viable alternative and a mechanism for making that transition happen. We're about to have both.

People like the group market not just because their employer is paying for part of it but because they implicitly understand that 1) they're getting a better deal and better treatment than folks who are buying it on their own, and 2) they're protected in a way those people aren't (i.e. the consumer protections in place in the group markets).

Enter the exchanges. The individual market is getting more competitive, less scary, and much more consumer friendly, removing the need for folks to cling to the group market. The SHOP exchanges for small businesses, depending on how a state wants to structure them, can give employers the opportunity to pursue defined contribution approaches: give employees some amount of money toward an insurance plan of their choice and if the employee wants a more expensive one then they pay the difference. Exchanges--both kinds--stand to give consumers more control, period.

2. Increase the competition in the marketplace. See above, current model has plenty of competition BUT not across state lines.

This has become a euphemism for a deregulatory and nonsensical approach to insurance markets. If you actually mean what those words say--and not what conservatives and Republicans generally mean when they use them--then you'll want to at least start the same way the ACA is: providing new avenues for insurers to sell plans nationwide, creating opportunities for willing states to merge their insurance markets to create interstate exchanges, seeding new consumer-operated nonprofit insurance cooperatives, and providing baseline consumer protections in all states so that states themselves can be more comfortable allowing out-of-state plans into their markets.

3. Keep the competition IN THE MARKETPLACE, not in mandates be they whatever.

I don't know what this means.

4. End ALL subsidies in health care. Start with Medicare. Destroy it.

That depends on whether or not we're concerned with distributional aspects of health care delivery. If we want poor people, old people, and sick people to get access to care when they need it, then there's going to be some sort of subsidy.

5. Limit regulations as now the insurance companies write the laws in most states.

Benefit mandates in the past have been more or less costless to the state governments that pass (or are coerced into passing) them. This will not be the case in the future. States can't just pad consumers' or the federal government's contribution to their insurance plans in exchanges; if they add on benefit mandates above the minimum essential benefits package, the state is responsible for paying for those benefits. That means there's now a countervailing pressure against tacking on benefit mandates to satisfy this or that lobby.

 

[Gadawg73]

Bottom line of the bill Romney signed:

Romneycare has been successful at what it set out to achieve (which did not include systematic cost control). If there's a complaint on that front it's that it wasn't ambitious enough--but wouldn't we have to pin that timidity on the state leadership at the time?

1. Give consumers MORE control over their health care spending. Current group health care model is about the worst way to control spending.

If you want people out of the group market you're going to need a viable alternative and a mechanism for making that transition happen. We're about to have both.

People like the group market not just because their employer is paying for part of it but because they implicitly understand that 1) they're getting a better deal and better treatment than folks who are buying it on their own, and 2) they're protected in a way those people aren't (i.e. the consumer protections in place in the group markets).

Enter the exchanges. The individual market is getting more competitive, less scary, and much more consumer friendly, removing the need for folks to cling to the group market. The SHOP exchanges for small businesses, depending on how a state wants to structure them, can give employers the opportunity to pursue defined contribution approaches: give employees some amount of money toward an insurance plan of their choice and if the employee wants a more expensive one then they pay the difference. Exchanges--both kinds--stand to give consumers more control, period.



This has become a euphemism for a deregulatory and nonsensical approach to insurance markets. If you actually mean what those words say--and not what conservatives and Republicans generally mean when they use them--then you'll want to at least start the same way the ACA is: providing new avenues for insurers to sell plans nationwide, creating opportunities for willing states to merge their insurance markets to create interstate exchanges, seeding new consumer-operated nonprofit insurance cooperatives, and providing baseline consumer protections in all states so that states themselves can be more comfortable allowing out-of-state plans into their markets.



I don't know what this means.

4. End ALL subsidies in health care. Start with Medicare. Destroy it.

That depends on whether or not we're concerned with distributional aspects of health care delivery. If we want poor people, old people, and sick people to get access to care when they need it, then there's going to be some sort of subsidy.

5. Limit regulations as now the insurance companies write the laws in most states.

Benefit mandates in the past have been more or less costless to the state governments that pass (or are coerced into passing) them. This will not be the case in the future. States can't just pad consumers' or the federal government's contribution to their insurance plans in exchanges; if they add on benefit mandates above the minimum essential benefits package, the state is responsible for paying for those benefits. That means there's now a countervailing pressure against tacking on benefit mandates to satisfy this or that lobby.

Group health care is NO bargain for the employers, those of us PAYING THE BILL.
"It is paid for it so I may well use it" has parents taking Johnny to the doctor for a cold.
Car insurance DOES NOT pay for oil changes and new tires.
Homeowners does not pay for new paint and carpet.
Health insurance has been rising as high as 15% a year over the last 20 years because of that and that alone. The med/mal argument is a bogus one as now many states have caps on a doctor's liability and rates have not gone down one cent as a result of that.
Additionally, a third party, the insurance company and NOT the consumer is paying the bill. Add on a minimum of 20% for the administration of that claim.
We need to go back where YOU, not the insurance company is the consumer paying the bill.
Group health care has ruined American health care. In 1960 78% of all health care dollars was spent on 65% of the population on HEALTH care. At that time health care was about 6% of GNP. Today 55% of health care dollars are spent on 4% of the population on DISEASE care. 85% of those disease care dollars are spent on the top 8 diseases, 7 of which are PREVENTABLE. Today health care as a % of GNP is approaching 20%.
Do the math, GROUP HEALTH AND DISEASE CARE IS UNSUSTAINABLE.
We have the best disease care in the world in America. We should as we waste a ton there. We are about 30th in health care.
Today government pays for 70%+ of all prescription drugs. And rising.
Group health care would be great if EACH consumer paid for it THEMSELF through a voucher at work or some form of cafeteria style benefit program.
Group health care paid for by the employer is the most inefficient system of paying for HEALTH care.
Works fine for disease care as the costs are so high the underwriting and claims analysis is fine lined.
Fraud in the health care insurance market has risen by 400% because of group health care. How does over billing on a claim to the insurance company EVER happen be it from the consumer OR the doctor if the consumer is paying the bill at point of sale?
Having been an employer for 30 years and seen this ugly monster grow first hand and the waste involved we need to seek ways to discourage the myth that group health insurance "spreads the risk".
Wellness plans are the future and our only way out. The insurance company ONLY writes those that are either healthy or WILL get healthy. All others go to high risk policies and folks under a certain income level do get help from the government.
Government employees will comply with wellness plans 100%. If you smoke, NO insurance for you, period. If you are fat, you get a time period to lose weight. Taxpayers have NO more $$ to fund the lifestyles of those undisciplined to care for themselves. Same with seniors, smoke? No voucher for your health care.
Change has to happen.

 

[JoeB131]

[
I tell him why the hell does he stay married to her then. MOVE OUT.
Move Joe, there are plenty of your socialist anti capitalist utopias you SPEAK OF AND REFERENCE regularly here to go to.
So go and get the fuck out of the US. If she is a bitch to you then just fucking go.
Delta is ready when you are.

You miss the point. I don't have to move.

We're winning the elections. Even your party is trying to figure out what it's doing wrong. The Plutocrats and Theocrats are going into a circular firing squad and it WILL be fun to watch.

And Demographics are not your friend here.. Wait until we add another 12 million illegals to the voter rolls...

The funny thing is, there isn't another place for you plutocrats to go. You might actuallly have to start working on your personalities and act like decent human beings...

 

[JoeB131]

[

Only a dumbass would call ObamaCare the same as the bill Romney whittled down from the Democrat passed version when he was Governor. He tore it to shreds and it was about 15% of what it was.
Already happening, companies downsizing to get under the cap of having to comply with Obamcare. Friend of mine sent out 37 notices to employees last week. Bye, bye, your ass is fired. I am not complying with Obamacare.
And when ordinary Obamabots will get their notice of fines to pay on their taxes because they are self employed and do not have health care, wallah! instant Republicans.

Guy, the assholes will fire people, but they won't be in business long because, hey' they are assholes.

Notice how fast Denny's slapped down on the franchisee who said he was going to impose an "ObamaCare Fee" on his bills. Slapped that bitch down real fast.

Fact is, you assholes tried the scare tactics, and they didn't work.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Romney lost on a two front basis.

FIRST and foremost during the primary debates--in order to win the nomination Romney was jerked so far right by the far right wing of the Tea party--he alienated himself with Hispanics--by originally insisting that illegal grandma's were to be ripped from the now legal family unit and sent back to nothing--not realizing that these grandma's have legal children and grandchildren in this country that VOTE. By the time he was able to move to center (as all politicians do for the general it was too late.) So what Reagan--and both Bush's enjoyed (the Hispanic vote) the far out right managed to chase to Obama in this election.

Well, a few points on this one. First, Romney did alienate the HIspanic vote, but that was largely by his own choice. He really couldn't find much he could get to the right of Rick Perry on, except Rick Perry is dealing with reality down in Texas, and he slapped him for that.

Second, Bush really didn't "enjoy" the Hispanic vote. He only got 44% of it. (Better than Romney's 27%, to be sure). Reagan did even worse. The thing is, they are a larger percentage of the population.

The REAL reason why Romney floundered was not because he made a conscious effort to play on racism, and it backfired on him.

[

SECONDLY--no one can run against Santa Claus and expect to win elections--no matter what the rational is. 99 weeks of unemployment insurance spelled a two year vacation for many in lower incomes in this country. Add to that 50 million people who can swipe a debit card for groceries in the food stamp program--take their kids to the doctor for a total fee of $3.00--along with a cash for clunkers program that ended up in the purchase of more foreign made cars than American- UNION auto bailouts. These people are not going to care about JOBS--and GOVERNMENT SPENDING. IOW--it's all the free stuff that BOUGHT reelection for Barack Obama.

This is the difference between Carter and Obama. During the Carter administration no one got 99 weeks of unemployment insurance and food stamps were much harder to obtain--and that is why Reagan won in a landslide victory.

Our demographics have changed. We have millions of people in this country--that do not pay attention to what is going on--as long as they feel comfortable. They spend a lot more time watching American idol--and Dancing with the Stars--than what the Federal Government is doing.

And there is absolutely no way--you're going to convince this woman--and the millions that think like her--that JOBS and DEFICITS matter. It won't matter to her and millions of others in this country--until the checks stop coming.

By using this woman I am NOT suggesting this problem comes only from minorities--there are now MILLIONS of Whites in this country that are also on the Federal Government taxpayer dime--that think the exact same way. Some body else owes them something. And it's those that actually work--that are going to pay the tab. The work ethic in this country is gone.

And here's the tired racist "Welfare Queen" argument you guys have been hawking since Reagn.

Here's the hint- if we have too many "loafers", it's because guys like Mitt Romney threw them out of the middle class. Because with all the off-shoring, union-busting, right to work, at will employment bullshit, the middle class vanished.

Welfare isn't just for poor people anymore.

If someone voted for Obama because he's on unemployment, shame on teh Koch brothers and Romney for putting him there to start with.

 

[JoeB131]

De-industrialization? Think about those evil right-to-work states getting the new major factories

]

Hey, I don't want to fly in a plane that was assembled by Goober and Cleetus in a non-union plant. I'm not sure why you do.

Oh, that's right. Beause those union guys got Obama elected.

There are fewer airplane crashes today than there were 30 years ago when the planes were all being built in union shops. True story.

Right. Probably has to do more with technology than anything else, since most of those planes are STILL being built in Unions shops.

Flown by Union pilots.

Maintained by Unions mechanics.

But damn those union guys, HOW DARE THEY insist on having a middle class lifestyle. I wanna new Dressage Pony...

 

[Harry Dresden]

[

Only a dumbass would call ObamaCare the same as the bill Romney whittled down from the Democrat passed version when he was Governor. He tore it to shreds and it was about 15% of what it was.
Already happening, companies downsizing to get under the cap of having to comply with Obamcare. Friend of mine sent out 37 notices to employees last week. Bye, bye, your ass is fired. I am not complying with Obamacare.
And when ordinary Obamabots will get their notice of fines to pay on their taxes because they are self employed and do not have health care, wallah! instant Republicans.

Guy, the assholes will fire people, but they won't be in business long because, hey' they are assholes.

Notice how fast Denny's slapped down on the franchisee who said he was going to impose an "ObamaCare Fee" on his bills. Slapped that bitch down real fast.

Fact is, you assholes tried the scare tactics, and they didn't work.

hey Joe lets not forget to mention how the Assholes in the Democratic Party use scare tactics to get people behind them.....and many of theirs work.....

 

[JoeB131]

[
hey Joe lets not forget to mention how the Assholes in the Democratic Party use scare tactics to get people behind them.....and many of theirs work.....

I agree, they do.

But man, the Republicans made it easier for them this year.

I've always felt the Democratic arguments on abortion- that we are just one ruling away from back ally abortions again- were kind of silly.

But when you got Akin and Murdouch putting adjectives in front of the word "Rape", you have Rush calling Fluke a "slut" on the radio, and Romney couldn't stand up to these guys or even get them to STFU, you get the results any sensible person should have expected.

 

[Toro]

Hey, I don't want to fly in a plane that was assembled by Goober and Cleetus in a non-union plant. I'm not sure why you do.

Oh, that's right. Beause those union guys got Obama elected.

There are fewer airplane crashes today than there were 30 years ago when the planes were all being built in union shops. True story.

Right. Probably has to do more with technology than anything else, since most of those planes are STILL being built in Unions shops.

Flown by Union pilots.

Maintained by Unions mechanics.

But damn those union guys, HOW DARE THEY insist on having a middle class lifestyle. I wanna new Dressage Pony...

Oh, so your original point about the non-union assembly workers was bullshit. Got it.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, so your original point about the non-union assembly workers was bullshit. Got it.

Nope, I still wouldn't fly in a plane built by Cleetus or Billy-Bob...

 

[Gadawg73]

Oh, so your original point about the non-union assembly workers was bullshit. Got it.

Nope, I still wouldn't fly in a plane built by Cleetus or Billy-Bob...

You would not have a clue who built the plane. Get real.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, so your original point about the non-union assembly workers was bullshit. Got it.

Nope, I still wouldn't fly in a plane built by Cleetus or Billy-Bob...

You would not have a clue who built the plane. Get real.

Sure, I just don't fly on a plane built in a non-union shop.

I really don't fly that much, because I don't like flying, anyway.

But if I were to fly, I would rather fly in a craft built by well-trained, well-compensated people happy with their jobs...

Not some inbred moron from the South who figured working at the plane factory was better than being the head Possum Catcher.

 

[Gadawg73]

Nope, I still wouldn't fly in a plane built by Cleetus or Billy-Bob...

You would not have a clue who built the plane. Get real.

Sure, I just don't fly on a plane built in a non-union shop.

I really don't fly that much, because I don't like flying, anyway.

But if I were to fly, I would rather fly in a craft built by well-trained, well-compensated people happy with their jobs...

Not some inbred moron from the South who figured working at the plane factory was better than being the head Possum Catcher.

Where is that untrained unhappy person that built that plane you flew in.
Produce him or her.
You can't and you know it. They do not exist. You make shit up.
Stalin would be proud of you.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Where is that untrained unhappy person that built that plane you flew in.
Produce him or her.
You can't and you know it. They do not exist. You make shit up.
Stalin would be proud of you.

Well, I don't buy anything made in the south.

A region so dumb thousands of you died so a few rich assholes could keep owning slaves.

And the basis of the Right To Work Republican Party...

Apparently, you just can't cure stupid.

 

[SixtyOne]

This is why Romney lost the election

(1) Fox News

(2) Sean Hannity

(3) Bill O'Reilly

(4) Rush Limbaugh

(5) Karl Rove

(6) John McCain

Dam! He beat you too!

(7) John Boehner

(8) Paul Ryan
You lost….. Say what…..

(9) Jan Brewer

(10) Harry Reid

 

[Harry Dresden]

[
hey Joe lets not forget to mention how the Assholes in the Democratic Party use scare tactics to get people behind them.....and many of theirs work.....

I agree, they do.

But man, the Republicans made it easier for them this year.

I've always felt the Democratic arguments on abortion- that we are just one ruling away from back ally abortions again- were kind of silly.

But when you got Akin and Murdouch putting adjectives in front of the word "Rape", you have Rush calling Fluke a "slut" on the radio, and Romney couldn't stand up to these guys or even get them to STFU, you get the results any sensible person should have expected.

out here they are doing it right now with this Bullshit plastic Grocery bag ban....a crock of lying bullshit as to WHY it needs to be done....

 

[Londoner]

The Bush meltdown in 2008 destroyed the housing market and the banking system. This is the equivalent of the Berlin wall falling for communism. It destroyed the economic viability of a generation of Americans, who lost their most valuable asset: the home. American families lost trillions of dollars. This means they can no longer buy as many goods on main street. The inability to buy things means that the capitalist has to lay off workers. This means that there are even less consumers to buy things. The result is a toxic spiral of job loss. Washington can't fix it. Business can't fix it. The system self-destructed. The game is over. When will Americans stop looking for magic buttons? George Bush didn't merely create a recession. His reckless mismanagement of the housing and banking sectors ended the American moment in history. Romney lost because he believes in the policies of Bush.

 

[B. Kidd]

Romney lost because he was not a 'gold standard' leader. Neither is Obie. Looks like we need to hit the precipice of a total point of no return (sorry, we are not there yet), and one will emerge that gets elected.
I have the utmost faith in my fellow Americans, BUT THERE WILL BE BLOOD.

 

[Barb]

 

[craner]

You missed one for your poll....voter fraud.

Not one vote for romney in most of Cleve and Philly??? Yea right.