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Would it not have been in America's interests to see the Nazis and Hitler destroyed earlier
You clearly don't understand what a conditional surrender is
None of PC's evidence supports the thesis and actual history rebukes it.
PC keeps trying over and over to make her conspiracy theory stick or be taken seriously and keeps getting the same results of rejection and failure over and over. Didn't Mr. Einstein have something to say about that?
y
Neither book you mention exists according to Amazon.
Hope I didn't make you so nervous that you have to create sources.....
Keep reading......I'm gonna blow that out of the water....
...start with this from post #77:
a. "A SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force) directive prohibited activities aimed at promoting German revolt against the Nazi regime.
The Allied doctrine of unconditional surrender meant that "... those Germans and particularly those German generals who might have been ready to throw Hitler over, and were able to do so, were discouraged from making the attempt by their inability to extract from the Allies any sort of assurance that such action would improve the treatment meted out to their country." German Resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Oh goodness, the books aren't on Amazon! You have to google the first one. A link won't work because it is access to the CIA Library. Without a coded password you will be blocked to direct access. However, this book is available for online reading if you do as I am instructing. Google "The OSS and the London Free Germans Strange Bedfellows by Jonathan S. Gould and you will land in the CIA Library for the limited viewing of that book only.
Google the book by Jurgen Heidiking, American Intelligence and the German Resistance. I'll try and find the site. Think it is at Westview Press.
Here is something you are totally wrong about. I have given you two sources to prove you are wrong. They meet university level standards as reliable sources. You may not have been aware that the information regarding operatives inside Germany were not declassified until 2000. The operation was handled in the spirit of Mincemeat and the Patton's First Army.
These books will not contain the 'opinions' that she wants. Posting a statement from a book, without factual evidence to back them up, does not make them facts.
Let's begin with this question: what possible reason would the President have to allow WWII to go on an extra year or two???
1. There is no way to argue that one of these two possibilities is the truth:
a. either Franklin Roosevelt was entirely aligned with Stalin and the communist agenda...or
b. Joseph Stalin was brilliant and overwhelming in his manipulations of Roosevelt.
2. "But the USSR was our ally against Hitler! No. The USSR was not our ally. It was our secret master-manipulator. We were secretly master-manipulated, not into defeating the Nazis, who, but for the de facto Soviet occupation of Washington, I am now persuaded could have been eliminated in 1943, but rather into decimating,obliterating, Germany, Soviet Russia's natural barrier against expansion into its European empire. Japan, very much too, for that matter, in the East."
West, "American Betrayal," p.277
a. Based on Stalin's wishes.....any surrender by Germany would not be accepted until its potential as a barrier to the spread of communism was obliterated so that "...Soviet Russia's natural barrier against expansion into its European empire" was removed.
And the same applied to Stalin's view of Japan, a potential impediment to the East. After meeting with Stalin in Moscow on May 28, 1945, Harry Hopkins told Truman that Stalin "prefers to go through with unconditional surrender" regarding Japan. "However, he feels that if we stick to unconditional surrender the Japs will not give up and we will have to destroy them as we did Germany."
Sherwood, "Hopkins," volume 2, 892-893.
Not to forget, Harry Hopkins was Stalin's spy in the Roosevelt White House....he actually lived in the White House.....
Stalin demanded "unconditional surrender."
So.....Roosevelt acquiesced.
Would it not have been in America's interests to see the Nazis and Hitler destroyed earlier, with a surrender of German forces and territories???
Would not have thousands of American soldier's lives been saved?
What to say about Franklin Roosevelt if it can be shown that the offer was on the table....?
Here's the error - the whole thread js fucking retarded, and sourced to other fucking retards.
Germany would have had no reason to surrender any earlier than they did, and they certainly never gave any indication they wanted to. Where were the diplomats, their envoys, their siits for peace? Why would they have surrendered when the war was going relatively well for them? What grand collusion do you believe happened between the ussr and Roosevelt before the ussr convinced england and the us to open a western front at the Tehran conference, after your proposed date for the end of hostilities?
Its a stupid premise PC, and you should be ashamed
Time and again, when folks realize they have been destroyed in an argument, their language falls to the vulgar. It's one of those hard to hide psychological tells....your anger at being bested leaks out as vulgarity.
I'll consider your post to be the equivalent of a white flag.
And you resort to failed attempts at humor when you are getting your ass handed to you.
Why Did Roosevelt Extend WWII By 2 Years??
He didn't
See, now I'm going to have to embarrass you again.
Not only did he extend it by the two years in the title....but there is proof that he could have begun surrender diplomacy by double that time frame.
Stay tuned....I'm going to prove it.
Get ready to take notes.
Let's begin with this question: what possible reason would the President have to allow WWII to go on an extra year or two???
1. There is no way to argue that one of these two possibilities is the truth:
a. either Franklin Roosevelt was entirely aligned with Stalin and the communist agenda...or
b. Joseph Stalin was brilliant and overwhelming in his manipulations of Roosevelt.
2. "But the USSR was our ally against Hitler! No. The USSR was not our ally. It was our secret master-manipulator. We were secretly master-manipulated, not into defeating the Nazis, who, but for the de facto Soviet occupation of Washington, I am now persuaded could have been eliminated in 1943, but rather into decimating,obliterating, Germany, Soviet Russia's natural barrier against expansion into its European empire. Japan, very much too, for that matter, in the East."
West, "American Betrayal," p.277
a. Based on Stalin's wishes.....any surrender by Germany would not be accepted until its potential as a barrier to the spread of communism was obliterated so that "...Soviet Russia's natural barrier against expansion into its European empire" was removed.
And the same applied to Stalin's view of Japan, a potential impediment to the East. After meeting with Stalin in Moscow on May 28, 1945, Harry Hopkins told Truman that Stalin "prefers to go through with unconditional surrender" regarding Japan. "However, he feels that if we stick to unconditional surrender the Japs will not give up and we will have to destroy them as we did Germany."
Sherwood, "Hopkins," volume 2, 892-893.
Not to forget, Harry Hopkins was Stalin's spy in the Roosevelt White House....he actually lived in the White House.....
Stalin demanded "unconditional surrender."
So.....Roosevelt acquiesced.
Would it not have been in America's interests to see the Nazis and Hitler destroyed earlier, with a surrender of German forces and territories???
Would not have thousands of American soldier's lives been saved?
What to say about Franklin Roosevelt if it can be shown that the offer was on the table....?
Gawwd you are a pathetic moron.
The ability of right wingers to distort, misinform and out right LIE and then project their UN-American crap on others in today's society, without shame is truly remarkable. We used to minimize and place you Klowns in the corner, but today's conservatives/GOP has you front and center, proudly and unashamedly rewriting history to fit your ideological 'beliefs'.
I thought your grasp of economics and math was bad, wow your distortion of history would probably have you believe, like Ronnie Reagan believed of himself, was an active participant of WW2 lol
Why Did Roosevelt Extend WWII By 2 Years??
He didn't
See, now I'm going to have to embarrass you again.
Not only did he extend it by the two years in the title....but there is proof that he could have begun surrender diplomacy by double that time frame.
Stay tuned....I'm going to prove it.
Get ready to take notes.
Opinions, based on distortions and lies isn't 'proving' ANYTHING. Grow a fuking brain
As I remember the American people wanted to get into that war full scale as soon as Poland was invaded, but FDR held them back.
Then the America-Firsters put on numerous demonstrations urging FDR to remove Hitler, saying this was our war, in fact, any European war was our war.
Then in spite of FDR's veto, Congress renewed the draft a few days before Pearl to keep Americans in service by an overwhelming vote.
Our military was at peak strength on Dec 7, and our soldiers had become battle-wise in the first world war, they were ready to tangle with the cowardly incompetent German army.
Then FDR passed the Neutrality Act preventing America from helping Britain, but the America Firsters defied FDR and sent Britain fifty destroyers and other aid. FDR was furious.
The list is as endless, as is the stupidity of some people that believe this tripe.
See, now I'm going to have to embarrass you again.
Not only did he extend it by the two years in the title....but there is proof that he could have begun surrender diplomacy by double that time frame.
Stay tuned....I'm going to prove it.
Get ready to take notes.
Opinions, based on distortions and lies isn't 'proving' ANYTHING. Grow a fuking brain
Let me check all the examples of "distortions and lies" that you've provided......
......none???
Hmmmmm.....so, I'm 100% correct?
Great.
Well, then....your post suggests this query: Considering your constellation of skills, how is it possible for you to decide whether to defecate or to wind you watch?
Time and again, when folks realize they have been destroyed in an argument, their language falls to the vulgar. It's one of those hard to hide psychological tells....your anger at being bested leaks out as vulgarity.
I'll consider your post to be the equivalent of a white flag.
And you resort to failed attempts at humor when you are getting your ass handed to you.
Still no attempt to confront the thesis.
Glad to see that you continue to work to ability.
PC keeps trying over and over to make her conspiracy theory stick or be taken seriously and keeps getting the same results of rejection and failure over and over. Didn't Mr. Einstein have something to say about that?
Oh goodness, the books aren't on Amazon! You have to google the first one. A link won't work because it is access to the CIA Library. Without a coded password you will be blocked to direct access. However, this book is available for online reading if you do as I am instructing. Google "The OSS and the London Free Germans Strange Bedfellows by Jonathan S. Gould and you will land in the CIA Library for the limited viewing of that book only.
Google the book by Jurgen Heidiking, American Intelligence and the German Resistance. I'll try and find the site. Think it is at Westview Press.
Here is something you are totally wrong about. I have given you two sources to prove you are wrong. They meet university level standards as reliable sources. You may not have been aware that the information regarding operatives inside Germany were not declassified until 2000. The operation was handled in the spirit of Mincemeat and the Patton's First Army.
These books will not contain the 'opinions' that she wants. Posting a statement from a book, without factual evidence to back them up, does not make them facts.
See if you can find any errors in the quotes and statements I've provided.
When you can't.....well, I was going to ask where that finding leads....but, that would require an ability from you that is not in evidence.
Did the German anti-Nazi resistance attempt to link with British and American governments from as early as the late 30's?
Yep.
Did Stalin insist that so such liaison be allowed, and Germany not allowed to surrender....but be obliterated?
Yep.
Did Soviet spies in the Roosevelt administration influence the FDR's "Morganthau Plan"?
Yep.
So....on what possible basis can it be denied that Roosevelt could have seen an end to Hitler and the Nazis years earlier?????
None....unless you are the dupe that you are revealed to be.
FDR's actions in behalf of Stalin extended the war for two years is PC's thesis.
Her evidence in no ways supports the thesis. OP fail.
Ad homming merely demonstrates her loss.
Opinions, based on distortions and lies isn't 'proving' ANYTHING. Grow a fuking brain
Let me check all the examples of "distortions and lies" that you've provided......
......none???
Hmmmmm.....so, I'm 100% correct?
Great.
Well, then....your post suggests this query: Considering your constellation of skills, how is it possible for you to decide whether to defecate or to wind you watch?
Your ENTIRE premise is based on distortions, misrepresentations and lies, as someone with an actual degree in history, it's pathetic how conservative, the ones who were on the wrong side of history over and over and over, tend to rewrite and distort history with bullshit OPINIONS based on their ideology!
And you resort to failed attempts at humor when you are getting your ass handed to you.
Still no attempt to confront the thesis.
Glad to see that you continue to work to ability.
There have been successful attempts to confront your thesis. This is obvious from you resorting to name calling and lame attempts at humor.
These books will not contain the 'opinions' that she wants. Posting a statement from a book, without factual evidence to back them up, does not make them facts.
See if you can find any errors in the quotes and statements I've provided.
When you can't.....well, I was going to ask where that finding leads....but, that would require an ability from you that is not in evidence.
Did the German anti-Nazi resistance attempt to link with British and American governments from as early as the late 30's?
Yep.
Did Stalin insist that so such liaison be allowed, and Germany not allowed to surrender....but be obliterated?
Yep.
Did Soviet spies in the Roosevelt administration influence the FDR's "Morganthau Plan"?
Yep.
So....on what possible basis can it be denied that Roosevelt could have seen an end to Hitler and the Nazis years earlier?????
None....unless you are the dupe that you are revealed to be.
You still have not provided any facts that FDR prolonged the war 2 years. You are a failure. Give it up.
See, now I'm going to have to embarrass you again.
Not only did he extend it by the two years in the title....but there is proof that he could have begun surrender diplomacy by double that time frame.
Stay tuned....I'm going to prove it.
Get ready to take notes.
Opinions, based on distortions and lies isn't 'proving' ANYTHING. Grow a fuking brain
Let me check all the examples of "distortions and lies" that you've provided......
......none???
Hmmmmm.....so, I'm 100% correct?
Great.
Well, then....your post suggests this query: Considering your constellation of skills, how is it possible for you to decide whether to defecate or to wind you watch?
Opinions, based on distortions and lies isn't 'proving' ANYTHING. Grow a fuking brain
Let me check all the examples of "distortions and lies" that you've provided......
......none???
Hmmmmm.....so, I'm 100% correct?
Great.
Well, then....your post suggests this query: Considering your constellation of skills, how is it possible for you to decide whether to defecate or to wind you watch?
I provided lots of evidence. Started picking your thesis apart piece by piece way back. You refuse to respond to questions and specifics. You just ignore and keep proclaiming victory. The discussion isn't about you. You offered a thesis, more of a conspiracy theory, and some of us have used it as a spring board to examine a small window of time and circumstances related to WWII. Just because you haven't bothered to check out some of the information and links I have provided does not mean others haven't. You have still not answered a question I asked of you at least two or three times about your knowledge of the NKFD or the BDO. Not bringing the Casablanca Conference into your theory, not including the NKFD and BDO brings your thesis an automatic failing grade.
Demanding "Unconditional Surrender" was not something FDR invented or original in any aspect. Demanding unconditional surrender is a strategic position used by armies and leaders since the first armies and leaders met on the battlefield with spears, swords, arrows and sling shots.
Most entertaining about this ridiculous conspiracy theory is the way it completely fails to consider one very basic aspect of analysis, the numbers. The numbers on all sides of the battlefields. That means divisions, troops in uniform, tanks, artillery, aircraft, etc.
The Soviet's would have annihilated the combined allied forces even if those forces combined with the German forces in 1943. An early surrender of Germany forces would have meant an unstoppable Soviet herd blazing across Europe and only they would decide when they wanted to stop. Any attempt by allied forces to stop them would have been seen as permission and and excuse to take France and Great Britain.
We can ague my "thesis" with numbers, flat out math. Start with January and February 1943. That puts us right in the "end the war two years early" zone.
FDR's actions in behalf of Stalin extended the war for two years is PC's thesis.
Her evidence in no ways supports the thesis. OP fail.
Ad homming merely demonstrates her loss.
"Her evidence in no ways supports the thesis." Liar. Of course it does....in fact, proves it. Which leads to this conundrum........as your posts are so obviously false....it must be that your desire to be associated with me overwhelms your embarrassment in posting such drivel....so....If you can't live without me, why are you still alive?
