Why Did Roosevelt Extend WWII By 2 Years??

[PoliticalChic]

FDR's actions in behalf of Stalin extended the war for two years is PC's thesis.

Her evidence in no ways supports the thesis. OP fail.

Ad homming merely demonstrates her loss.

"Her evidence in no ways supports the thesis." Liar. Of course it does....in fact, proves it. Which leads to this conundrum........as your posts are so obviously false....it must be that your desire to be associated with me overwhelms your embarrassment in posting such drivel....so....If you can't live without me, why are you still alive?

Ad homs prove my point, that her evidence does not support the OP.

Let's move it into the badlands, please.

I love how deeply it wounds you....


Keep bleeding.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What PC won't respond to factually with evidence is that the logistics could not support in 1943 any possibility of forcing an end to the war, and in 1943 the Axis had no intention of giving back any conquests.

Here...let me hurt you some more:


Did the German anti-Nazi resistance attempt to link with British and American governments from as early as the late 30's?

Yep.


Did Stalin insist that so such liaison be allowed, and Germany not allowed to surrender....but be obliterated?

Yep.


Did Soviet spies in the Roosevelt administration influence the FDR's "Morganthau Plan"?


Yep.



So....on what possible basis can it be denied that Roosevelt could have seen an end to Hitler and the Nazis years earlier?????
__________________

 

[Unkotare]

The Soviet's would have annihilated the combined allied forces even if those forces combined with the German forces in 1943.

Utter nonsense.

 

[Camp]

Let me check all the examples of "distortions and lies" that you've provided......


......none???

Hmmmmm.....so, I'm 100% correct?
Great.

Well, then....your post suggests this query: Considering your constellation of skills, how is it possible for you to decide whether to defecate or to wind you watch?

I provided lots of evidence. Started picking your thesis apart piece by piece way back. You refuse to respond to questions and specifics. You just ignore and keep proclaiming victory. The discussion isn't about you. You offered a thesis, more of a conspiracy theory, and some of us have used it as a spring board to examine a small window of time and circumstances related to WWII. Just because you haven't bothered to check out some of the information and links I have provided does not mean others haven't. You have still not answered a question I asked of you at least two or three times about your knowledge of the NKFD or the BDO. Not bringing the Casablanca Conference into your theory, not including the NKFD and BDO brings your thesis an automatic failing grade.

Demanding "Unconditional Surrender" was not something FDR invented or original in any aspect. Demanding unconditional surrender is a strategic position used by armies and leaders since the first armies and leaders met on the battlefield with spears, swords, arrows and sling shots.

Most entertaining about this ridiculous conspiracy theory is the way it completely fails to consider one very basic aspect of analysis, the numbers. The numbers on all sides of the battlefields. That means divisions, troops in uniform, tanks, artillery, aircraft, etc.
The Soviet's would have annihilated the combined allied forces even if those forces combined with the German forces in 1943. An early surrender of Germany forces would have meant an unstoppable Soviet herd blazing across Europe and only they would decide when they wanted to stop. Any attempt by allied forces to stop them would have been seen as permission and and excuse to take France and Great Britain.
We can ague my "thesis" with numbers, flat out math. Start with January and February 1943. That puts us right in the "end the war two years early" zone.

"I provided lots of evidence. Started picking your thesis apart piece by piece way back."

Of course you did no such thing.

What you attempted to do was change the subject.

No dice.




Did the German anti-Nazi resistance attempt to link with British and American governments from as early as the late 30's?

Yep.


Did Stalin insist that so such liaison be allowed, and Germany not allowed to surrender....but be obliterated?

Yep.


Did Soviet spies in the Roosevelt administration influence the FDR's "Morganthau Plan"?


Yep.



So....on what possible basis can it be denied that Roosevelt could have seen an end to Hitler and the Nazis years earlier?????

Run away little loser. You can't refute my evidence that proves you are an idiot when it comes to FDR and WWII. Your refusal to even attempt to refute the comments that insult and belittle your theory prove the evidence is overwhelming and indisputable. The fact you will not even mention the evidence I provided with impeccable sources shows your dumb theory to be null and void of any academic value. Your theory in my opinion, was pure politicized partisan propaganda and disinformation of the ugliest and most dishonest variety. Blatant lies perpetrated to misinform in a malicious manner and for a malicious purpose. But hey, I'm sure will make an attempt to show I am wrong. Good luck.

 

[JakeStarkey]

What PC won't respond to factually with evidence is that the logistics could not support in 1943 any possibility of forcing an end to the war, and in 1943 the Axis had no intention of giving back any conquests.

Here...let me hurt you some more: Did the German anti-Nazi resistance attempt to link with British and American governments from as early as the late 30's? Yep. Did Stalin insist that so such liaison be allowed, and Germany not allowed to surrender....but be obliterated? Yep. Did Soviet spies in the Roosevelt administration influence the FDR's "Morganthau Plan"? Yep. So....on what possible basis can it be denied that Roosevelt could have seen an end to Hitler and the Nazis years earlier?????
__________________

Thank you for agreeing that it could not have ended in 1943 because of logistics and politics. Nothing by Stalin interfered with those decisions at all. The Germans would not have given back conquered countries and populations, meaning FDR and WC and JS and everyone else would have not supported any such nonsense.

I think you would have wanted a treaty made with Germany in 1943 that would have allowed it to keep its conquests as long as it kept fighting in the East.

If you had publicly supported such a scheme in 1943, you would have gone to prison in UK.

 

[Camp]

The Soviet's would have annihilated the combined allied forces even if those forces combined with the German forces in 1943.

Utter nonsense.

Back it up. Beginning of 1943, Soviets vs. Western Allies. Let'a see numbers.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Soviet's would have annihilated the combined allied forces even if those forces combined with the German forces in 1943.

Utter nonsense.

Back it up.

If I looked up 'imbecile' in the dictionary, I'm certain I'd see your picture.


The length that you will go to shield Roosevelt is exemplified by this post.


The Soviet Union would not have been a thriving endeavor had it not been for the buffet called "Lend Lease.'


Further....Stalin killed some 20 million of his own people and troops in WWII....


1. World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat.

More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army.
"The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.




"Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin - NYTimes.com




Were it not for Stalin's stooge, Franklin Roosevelt, the Soviet Union wouldn't have had to wait for Ronald Reagan to put it in its place...

...nor would there have been a Korean War, nor a Red China.


FDR....wadda guy!

 

[PoliticalChic]

What PC won't respond to factually with evidence is that the logistics could not support in 1943 any possibility of forcing an end to the war, and in 1943 the Axis had no intention of giving back any conquests.

Here...let me hurt you some more: Did the German anti-Nazi resistance attempt to link with British and American governments from as early as the late 30's? Yep. Did Stalin insist that so such liaison be allowed, and Germany not allowed to surrender....but be obliterated? Yep. Did Soviet spies in the Roosevelt administration influence the FDR's "Morganthau Plan"? Yep. So....on what possible basis can it be denied that Roosevelt could have seen an end to Hitler and the Nazis years earlier?????
__________________

Thank you for agreeing that it could not have ended in 1943 because of logistics and politics. Nothing by Stalin interfered with those decisions at all. The Germans would not have given back conquered countries and populations, meaning FDR and WC and JS and everyone else would have not supported any such nonsense.

I think you would have wanted a treaty made with Germany in 1943 that would have allowed it to keep its conquests as long as it kept fighting in the East.

If you had publicly supported such a scheme in 1943, you would have gone to prison in UK.

"Thank you for agreeing...."


Liar.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I provided lots of evidence. Started picking your thesis apart piece by piece way back. You refuse to respond to questions and specifics. You just ignore and keep proclaiming victory. The discussion isn't about you. You offered a thesis, more of a conspiracy theory, and some of us have used it as a spring board to examine a small window of time and circumstances related to WWII. Just because you haven't bothered to check out some of the information and links I have provided does not mean others haven't. You have still not answered a question I asked of you at least two or three times about your knowledge of the NKFD or the BDO. Not bringing the Casablanca Conference into your theory, not including the NKFD and BDO brings your thesis an automatic failing grade.

Demanding "Unconditional Surrender" was not something FDR invented or original in any aspect. Demanding unconditional surrender is a strategic position used by armies and leaders since the first armies and leaders met on the battlefield with spears, swords, arrows and sling shots.

Most entertaining about this ridiculous conspiracy theory is the way it completely fails to consider one very basic aspect of analysis, the numbers. The numbers on all sides of the battlefields. That means divisions, troops in uniform, tanks, artillery, aircraft, etc.
The Soviet's would have annihilated the combined allied forces even if those forces combined with the German forces in 1943. An early surrender of Germany forces would have meant an unstoppable Soviet herd blazing across Europe and only they would decide when they wanted to stop. Any attempt by allied forces to stop them would have been seen as permission and and excuse to take France and Great Britain.
We can ague my "thesis" with numbers, flat out math. Start with January and February 1943. That puts us right in the "end the war two years early" zone.

"I provided lots of evidence. Started picking your thesis apart piece by piece way back."

Of course you did no such thing.

What you attempted to do was change the subject.

No dice.




Did the German anti-Nazi resistance attempt to link with British and American governments from as early as the late 30's?

Yep.


Did Stalin insist that so such liaison be allowed, and Germany not allowed to surrender....but be obliterated?

Yep.


Did Soviet spies in the Roosevelt administration influence the FDR's "Morganthau Plan"?


Yep.



So....on what possible basis can it be denied that Roosevelt could have seen an end to Hitler and the Nazis years earlier?????

Run away little loser. You can't refute my evidence that proves you are an idiot when it comes to FDR and WWII. Your refusal to even attempt to refute the comments that insult and belittle your theory prove the evidence is overwhelming and indisputable. The fact you will not even mention the evidence I provided with impeccable sources shows your dumb theory to be null and void of any academic value. Your theory in my opinion, was pure politicized partisan propaganda and disinformation of the ugliest and most dishonest variety. Blatant lies perpetrated to misinform in a malicious manner and for a malicious purpose. But hey, I'm sure will make an attempt to show I am wrong. Good luck.

"... my evidence..."


All the evidence indicates that you are a moon-struck FDR boot-licker.





"...Blatant lies...."


And the list of same.....is non-existent.

 

[Unkotare]

The Soviet's would have annihilated the combined allied forces even if those forces combined with the German forces in 1943.

Utter nonsense.

Back it up. Beginning of 1943, Soviets vs. Western Allies. Let'a see numbers.

"Without Western aid, during the war the Soviet population would have been in danger of sharing the fate of those trapped in Leningrad and the earlier victims of collectivization. Even with the American aid, many Russians died from lack of food. Equally important was Lend-Lease's contribution to transportation. It would have been impossible for the Red Army to move the masses of troops and supplies on the primitive roads to the front lines without American Studebaker trucks, which also served as the launching pads for the dreaded Soviet rocket artillery. "

"Besides weaponry and food, Lend-Lease provided the Soviet Union with other resources, ranging from clothing to metals. With the start of the Cold War, Lend-Lease became a forgotten chapter in Soviet history and was only revived after glasnost. Now, thanks to Russian researchers and this excellent study, the West will have access to the real story. Lend-Lease provided vital help for the Soviet Union when the country was in desperate straits and made a significant contribution to the final victory. It also strengthened Josef Stalin, a fact that did not bother its chief architect, Franklin D. Roosevelt, who saw beyond the Allied victory and looked at Stalin as a counterbalance to the European colonial powers."


Russia's Life-Saver: Lend-Lease Aid to the U.S.S.R. in World War II (Book Review)

 

[PoliticalChic]

Utter nonsense.

Back it up. Beginning of 1943, Soviets vs. Western Allies. Let'a see numbers.

"Without Western aid, during the war the Soviet population would have been in danger of sharing the fate of those trapped in Leningrad and the earlier victims of collectivization. Even with the American aid, many Russians died from lack of food. Equally important was Lend-Lease's contribution to transportation. It would have been impossible for the Red Army to move the masses of troops and supplies on the primitive roads to the front lines without American Studebaker trucks, which also served as the launching pads for the dreaded Soviet rocket artillery. "

"Besides weaponry and food, Lend-Lease provided the Soviet Union with other resources, ranging from clothing to metals. With the start of the Cold War, Lend-Lease became a forgotten chapter in Soviet history and was only revived after glasnost. Now, thanks to Russian researchers and this excellent study, the West will have access to the real story. Lend-Lease provided vital help for the Soviet Union when the country was in desperate straits and made a significant contribution to the final victory. It also strengthened Josef Stalin, a fact that did not bother its chief architect, Franklin D. Roosevelt, who saw beyond the Allied victory and looked at Stalin as a counterbalance to the European colonial powers."


Russia's Life-Saver: Lend-Lease Aid to the U.S.S.R. in World War II (Book Review)

1. George Kennan wrote: "there is no adequate justification for continuing a program of lavish and almost indiscriminate aid to the Soviet Union at a time when there was increasing reason to doubt whether her purposes in Eastern Europe, aside from the defeat of Germany, would be ones which we Americans could approve and sponsor." George C. Herring, "Aid to Russia," p. xvii.

2. I challenge FDR apologists to explain government largesse to Soviet Russia, even superseding Allied, or even American military needs. Or American civilian needs: 217,660,666 pounds of butter shipped to the USSR during a time of strict state-side rationing. John R. Deane, "The Strange Alliance: The Story of Our Efforts at Wartime Cooperation With Russia," p.94-95.

3. The original Lend-Lease act provided that, unless sooner terminated by a concurrent resolution by Congress, the authority to enter into lend-lease agreements would end 30 June 1943, and the authority to carry out contracts or agreements with foreign governments would continue until 1 July 1946.

Congress then made one-year extensions of the agreements three times so that the final date for making lend-lease agreements was 30 June 1946, with authority to carry them out until 1 July 1949.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

FDR was the most evil person who ever lived on earth.

Ever.

So there.

He helped some people get some really cool bridges built. If you like bridges you might think that part of his gig was OK. Dams too. He helped people build dams for electric and irrigation and jobs and stuff.

. . . prolonged the Depression by nearly a decade with asinine policies that artificially inflated prices and wages, shredded the Constitution, herded 110,000 American citizens into internment camps, sold out Eastern Europe and stuff.

 

[Camp]

Utter nonsense.

Back it up. Beginning of 1943, Soviets vs. Western Allies. Let'a see numbers.

"Without Western aid, during the war the Soviet population would have been in danger of sharing the fate of those trapped in Leningrad and the earlier victims of collectivization. Even with the American aid, many Russians died from lack of food. Equally important was Lend-Lease's contribution to transportation. It would have been impossible for the Red Army to move the masses of troops and supplies on the primitive roads to the front lines without American Studebaker trucks, which also served as the launching pads for the dreaded Soviet rocket artillery. "

"Besides weaponry and food, Lend-Lease provided the Soviet Union with other resources, ranging from clothing to metals. With the start of the Cold War, Lend-Lease became a forgotten chapter in Soviet history and was only revived after glasnost. Now, thanks to Russian researchers and this excellent study, the West will have access to the real story. Lend-Lease provided vital help for the Soviet Union when the country was in desperate straits and made a significant contribution to the final victory. It also strengthened Josef Stalin, a fact that did not bother its chief architect, Franklin D. Roosevelt, who saw beyond the Allied victory and looked at Stalin as a counterbalance to the European colonial powers."


Russia's Life-Saver: Lend-Lease Aid to the U.S.S.R. in World War II (Book Review)

Yes, what you write is true. I may disagree with some of the somewhat political implications, but the first portion of your post is certainly correct. I'm not sure the declassification of old Soviet records are needed to reach the same conclusion, but they do reinforce what we already knew.

The question being asked is could the war be ended two years early, meaning in the time zone of early 1943. It doesn't make a difference how Stalin acquired his army, he had it. The politics are sort of irrelevant if we are focused on military ability. Even the need for American Lend Lease at this point in time can be in question. Stalin had defeated the German army at Stalingrad by the end of February and captured over 90,000 troops and left close to a million dead on the battlefield. The Russians were now able to cannibalize the battlefield and their industrial capacity had been reconstituted. The stood with almost 7 million men and women under arms and in uniform.

 

[Camp]

Let's begin


1. There is no way to argue that one of these two possibilities is the truth:

a. either Franklin Roosevelt was entirely aligned with Stalin and the communist agenda...or
b. Joseph Stalin was brilliant and overwhelming in his manipulations of Roosevelt.

Blatant lie No. 1

 

[Camp]

"I provided lots of evidence. Started picking your thesis apart piece by piece way back."

Of course you did no such thing.

What you attempted to do was change the subject.

No dice.




Did the German anti-Nazi resistance attempt to link with British and American governments from as early as the late 30's?

Yep.


Did Stalin insist that so such liaison be allowed, and Germany not allowed to surrender....but be obliterated?

Yep.


Did Soviet spies in the Roosevelt administration influence the FDR's "Morganthau Plan"?


Yep.



So....on what possible basis can it be denied that Roosevelt could have seen an end to Hitler and the Nazis years earlier?????

Run away little loser. You can't refute my evidence that proves you are an idiot when it comes to FDR and WWII. Your refusal to even attempt to refute the comments that insult and belittle your theory prove the evidence is overwhelming and indisputable. The fact you will not even mention the evidence I provided with impeccable sources shows your dumb theory to be null and void of any academic value. Your theory in my opinion, was pure politicized partisan propaganda and disinformation of the ugliest and most dishonest variety. Blatant lies perpetrated to misinform in a malicious manner and for a malicious purpose. But hey, I'm sure will make an attempt to show I am wrong. Good luck.

"... my evidence..."


All the evidence indicates that you are a moon-struck FDR boot-licker.





"...Blatant lies...."


And the list of same.....is non-existent.

Quit while you are behind!!!!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Here...let me hurt you some more: Did the German anti-Nazi resistance attempt to link with British and American governments from as early as the late 30's? Yep. Did Stalin insist that so such liaison be allowed, and Germany not allowed to surrender....but be obliterated? Yep. Did Soviet spies in the Roosevelt administration influence the FDR's "Morganthau Plan"? Yep. So....on what possible basis can it be denied that Roosevelt could have seen an end to Hitler and the Nazis years earlier?????
__________________

Thank you for agreeing that it could not have ended in 1943 because of logistics and politics. Nothing by Stalin interfered with those decisions at all. The Germans would not have given back conquered countries and populations, meaning FDR and WC and JS and everyone else would have not supported any such nonsense.

I think you would have wanted a treaty made with Germany in 1943 that would have allowed it to keep its conquests as long as it kept fighting in the East.

If you had publicly supported such a scheme in 1943, you would have gone to prison in UK.

"Thank you for agreeing...." Liar.

Yes, you admitted your OP is fail.

 

[Camp]

FDR was the most evil person who ever lived on earth.

Ever.

So there.

He helped some people get some really cool bridges built. If you like bridges you might think that part of his gig was OK. Dams too. He helped people build dams for electric and irrigation and jobs and stuff.

. . . prolonged the Depression by nearly a decade with asinine policies that artificially inflated prices and wages, shredded the Constitution, herded 110,000 American citizens into internment camps, sold out Eastern Europe and stuff.

Well, even if that were true, the folks at the time thought it was worth it. They kept reelecting him over and over. Couldn't be happier with their President. They loved that guy.

 

[bendog]

The only real nugget in the OP was FDR did raise eyebrows with the 'unconditional surrender" thing. With our allies and the Germans both. But, he clearly thought that colonial powers was a root cause, and it was.

 

[Camp]

The only real nugget in the OP was FDR did raise eyebrows with the 'unconditional surrender" thing. With our allies and the Germans both. But, he clearly thought that colonial powers was a root cause, and it was.

He knew the 6th Army was being annihilated at Stalingrad. The implications of that victory for Stalin is recognized in Russia but mostly ignored or at least underestimated by the west. FDR understood what it meant. A surrender to the west could not and would not save Germany.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

FDR was the most evil person who ever lived on earth.

Ever.

So there.

He helped some people get some really cool bridges built. If you like bridges you might think that part of his gig was OK. Dams too. He helped people build dams for electric and irrigation and jobs and stuff.

. . . prolonged the Depression by nearly a decade with asinine policies that artificially inflated prices and wages, shredded the Constitution, herded 110,000 American citizens into internment camps, sold out Eastern Europe and stuff.

That's the real FDR...a Stalin Sock Puppet even AFTER UNCLE JOE STARVED 3 MILLION CHILDREN TO DEATH IN THE UKRAINE IN 1933