Why did Trump appoint as the NSC head a man whom he knew lied?

[usmbguest5318]

Sean Spicer stated that Flynn had to go because he'd lost Trump's trust. That makes no sense to me because Flynn did what he did well before Trump's inauguration and Trump knew about it. Flynn's act was problematic then because Flynn was not an agent of the U.S. government empowered to discuss U.S. policy -- current or future -- with a foreign nation's ambassador.

The key questions:

• Why is trust of Flynn now a problem, but when he lied about the nature of his discussions with a Russian official, it wasn't even enough of a trust issue to dissuade Trump from placing him on the NSC?
• Why is only a problem now that Flynn's actions/conversations and their nature have become public?
• Just who lied and about what?
  • Did Trump/Pence lie about what Flynn actually told them of his conversations with the Russian ambassador?
  • Did Flynn lie to Pence about the nature of his discussions with the Russian ambassador?
  • Is someone lying now about who said what to whom about "whatever" between Nov. 2016 and Jan. 20, 2017?

The Trump presidency hadn't even begun and those people were already stepping over the line. I'm sorry. These are not the kind of people the American people deserve to have in the WH. With any luck, Paul Ryan will be President in two years or less.

 

[tinydancer]

Trump only found out about the investigation towards the end of January. It was hidden from him.

Flynn's lie or half truth to VP Pence was his downfall.

By the way it is not unusual whatsoever during a transition for members of the future cabinet and Presidential aides to be in contact with multiple governments.

It's the norm.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Trump gambled on the public not finding out, and he lost. Now his sheep (like tinydancer) are scrambling to deflect. Shame on them, and shame on Trump.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Trump only found out about the investigation towards the end of January. It was hidden from him.

Flynn's lie or half truth to VP Pence was his downfall.

By the way it is not unusual whatsoever during a transition for members of the future cabinet and Presidential aides to be in contact with multiple governments.

It's the norm.

I don't really have something to say about the mere fact of contact being made. Ostensibly, talking isn't the problem, nor do I aim to present it as such.

• I have a problem with someone lying about what actually happened.
  
  I'll be honest, I'm not convinced Flynn misrepresented the nature of his calls to Trump/Pence. The guy was the Director of the DIA under Obama. It's hard to imagine the man, a three star (?) general officer, was given to inaccurately and incompletely representing the truth to his superiors, much less to the President or Vice President. The exact opposite is what he was tasked with doing for years.
  
  Now, people want me to believe the man, in discussing the calls with Pence/Trump is going to leave out a detail like having spoken about the sanctions? That's quite a lot to swallow, really. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I am saying one needs a whole lot of willing suspension of disbelief to accept that as the "be all end to all" in this story.
  
  What's being claimed about Flynn like my management level staff suddenly "forgetting" what is important enough to include in the status reports they deliver me. That's the "nutshell" of what they are claiming when they say Flynn withheld the "sanctions" details of the calls from Pence/Trump. It's preposterous. Flynn is every bit as much a professional as I and my colleagues.
  
  
• I have a problem with this notion that it was a trust issue once it became public, but it wasn't a trust issue when it was first discovered. This is where the lack of experience in quarters of the Trump Admin. is a real problem. They seem to think the U.S. Gov't is a corporation. It's not.
  
  
• I have a problem with the notion that Trump and nobody on his team had any idea that discussing U.S. policy matters prior to being sworn in is against the law. I don't mind that they talked and got acquainted. They can do that without talking about policy. There again, introducing oneself to other execs and founding a relationship is commonplace, and doing it without discussing business (or in the case of government, policy) is also part and parcel of doing exactly that.

Flynn was in his position for 23 days as of 14-Feb-2017. He was sworn in on 22-Jan-2017.

23-January-2017 --> Three days after Trump officially takes office, US officials say investigators are scrutinizing several calls between Flynn and Russia's ambassador.

26-January-2017 -->The Justice Department warns the Trump administration that Flynn misled administration officials regarding his communications with Kislyak and is potentially vulnerable to blackmail by the Russians, according to a person familiar with the matter. The message is delivered by Acting Attorney General Sally Yates whom Trump fired. (Watch the video. Spicer says it was on 26 Jan that Trump found out.)


Somewhere between 9-Nov and 20-Jan, Flynn talks to Russian ambassador. It turns out there were at least five such calls. And how has Flynn described them? All sorts of ways:

• The phone calls dealt only with arrangements for a call between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin.
  
• Spicer said that Flynn said, "They discussed, he said, the Russian plane crash, the Syrian civil war, Christmas, and a call between their two leaders."
• Not about sanctions on Russia.

On what did Flynn blame his supposed failure to fully report the nature of the call(s) with the Russian ambassador?

• Late Monday on the "fast pace of events" that led him to "inadvertently" give Vice President Pence and others "incomplete information" about his phone conversations with Russia's ambassador to the U.S.
  
  What? Okay, yes, it's possible, but as I said above, a 3 star general slips up like that in in reporting to the PEOTUS/VPEOTUS? Come on. At that level, people's jobs heavily (but not entirely) entails receiving, reading and analyzing status reports about myriad different projects for which one is responsible, asking questions about what's in them to make sure the people running them haven't overlooked some key detail(s), providing guidance/instructions as needed to the people from whom they received the reports, and submitting status reports to their bosses.
  
  This type of activity -- measuring, inspiring, catalyzing and controlling performance -- if my own experience doing it is any guide, generally occupies about 20%-30% of a senior exec's (EVP/SVP or higher) time. They don't forget how to do that, and do it well, after literally decades of having done it.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Trump gambled on the public not finding out, and he lost. Now his sheep (like tinydancer) are scrambling to deflect. Shame on them, and shame on Trump.

Okay. Perhaps so. I don't care for that either.

I get that a Pres. won't disclose classified details of things, but trying to hide their own wrongdoing never sits well with me.

Here's a thing: Trump was informed about the possibility "something" might be awry with Flynn's calls the day before he choose to place Flynn in the role of NSA. (See post 4.) Trump could have waited to see what info came to the fore rather than rushing to emplace Flynn. Hell, he even could have named someone else to the NSA post. There're a lot of things Trump could have done that would have obviated the entirety of this scandal, and he did none of them. That's not the sign of a good manager, least of all one who, in part, wins the Presidency on the basis of supposedly being a very good manager.

 

[OKTexas]

Sean Spicer stated that Flynn had to go because he'd lost Trump's trust. That makes no sense to me because Flynn did what he did well before Trump's inauguration and Trump knew about it. Flynn's act was problematic then because Flynn was not an agent of the U.S. government empowered to discuss U.S. policy -- current or future -- with a foreign nation's ambassador.

The key questions:

• Why is trust of Flynn now a problem, but when he lied about the nature of his discussions with a Russian official, it wasn't even enough of a trust issue to dissuade Trump from placing him on the NSC?
• Why is only a problem now that Flynn's actions/conversations and their nature have become public?
• Just who lied and about what?
  • Did Trump/Pence lie about what Flynn actually told them of his conversations with the Russian ambassador?
  • Did Flynn lie to Pence about the nature of his discussions with the Russian ambassador?
  • Is someone lying now about who said what to whom about "whatever" between Nov. 2016 and Jan. 20, 2017?

The Trump presidency hadn't even begun and those people were already stepping over the line. I'm sorry. These are not the kind of people the American people deserve to have in the WH. With any luck, Paul Ryan will be President in two years or less.

It's so cute when pathetic snowflake regressives put their we dreams in writing. I think the left should just shut the fuck up until a transcript of the conversation is made available. All these speculations and assumptions are really getting old.