Why do people hate Liberals?

[Sactowndog]

Let's examine the big issues:

Medical -> government creates endless mandates on insurance carriers like paying for things like sex change operations and hair transplants, government created a system of endless frivolous lawsuits so a doctor starting out can have a six figure insurance policy they have to cover, government blocks selling policies across State lines, government gives employers tax breaks but not individual policies so people can't manage their own healthcare plans, government blocks people from taking their coverage with them if they leave their job. Government abets foreign countries stealing American pharmaceuticals without paying for the R&D that was used to develop them so American consumers pay higher prices...

So your read of the situation is the problem is not enough government. Gotcha...

You leave out the most important mandate which is government mandates that hospitals treat the uninsured who enter their emergency room.

The big problem with healthcare is we want it to be free market but we don't accept what that means. A demand curve requires people drop out of the market as the cost rises. Applied to healthcare that means as the cost rises at each point the decision is made to let the entity die rather than pay the price. These decisions occur everyday in animal health but never occur in human health care. Without it you can't have a demand curve and without a demand curve you can't have a true market based system.

That means you have to have a pseudo market solution that effectively accounts for the fact that we are unwilling to let people exit the market and the means government has to be involved to some extent.

And therefore government can fix it? Hmm...

If we are going to dictate that we don't want people to drop out of the market then yes government has to be involved. For the record my approach would be similiar to Ryan's approach.

I would use vouchers but not just for the elderly but for everyone. The vouchers would be based on need.

I would let states set a baseline plan for their state but I would let insurers offer policies across state lines so if someone wanted to offer a health plan targeted at 25 year old African males they could do so. People could chose the plan the desired and if they negligantly failed to chose a plan they would be enrolled in the state baseline plan. (My desired approach would be if they were negligent let them die in the street but I realize that might be a little harsh.)

 

[westwall]

I am not absolving anyone who was involved from blame. So are you giving Obama and the democrats after 3 1/2 years of doing exactly what they wanted with control of the Senate and WH and 3 years before that control of Congress NO blame?

Now, if you want to have a discussion on what caused the stock market crash which caused or was the result of the housing bubble burst then name the BUSH policy that you think caused the situation.

Allowing the financial industry to do whatever they wanted, his tax cuts for the rich and starting two unecessary wars at a cost of $12 billion a month.

I just gave you 3.

Lets not forget the $12 billion in CASH that was flown to Iraq and came up missing? I wonder how exactly enough cash to fill 10's of semi's actually comes up missing in haliburton-land....er....cheneyland....er....Iraq>

Yep, graft and corruption for sure. I wonder how much of Obama's 800 billion stimulous is traceable?

 

[Freewill]

.

If there are people who actually, literally hate others simply because of their political opinions, I'd have more questions about the haters than the hatees.

.

And a lot of people hate others, because that's all the know.

They find comfort in what's familiar.

I have found that most times when people make blanket statements about what others think it is because that is what they think.

 

[Freewill]

I dont hate liberals.....None of you are liberals you are all progressives and I dont hate them I just fight against them cause I love my country.

Do you support:

• the war in Iraq
• the Patriot Act
• indefinate detention

Because if you do, you don't love this country.

Hmmmm, who made you the great decider of such things?

 

[Freewill]

Only tinfoil total dupes believe Obama is communist. Cold War dinosaur morons. The rest of the world sees a pragmatic centrist.

While I would say more of a socialist then communist do you have one link to back up what the rest of the world thinks? Now I don't know what their MSM feeds them but by what I see Obama is not a pragmatist nor a centrist, only would he be in liberal fantasy land.

 

[Freewill]

The economy was doing quite well for most of President Bush's terms in office.

It was better during the Clinton years.

Actually it depends on how you measure the economy. Clinton had a growing economy given to him by Ronald Reagan. Bush on the other hand had a recession, Y2k windown and the dot.com crash handed to him from Clinton. And of course 9/11 came along as a sever body blow, but we recovered fairly quickly unlike what Obama has done with his recession.

 

[Freewill]

Freewill -

Are you really giving the Bush adminstration a pass for eight years of failed economic policies?

I am not absolving anyone who was involved from blame. So are you giving Obama and the democrats after 3 1/2 years of doing exactly what they wanted with control of the Senate and WH and 3 years before that control of Congress NO blame?

Now, if you want to have a discussion on what caused the stock market crash which caused or was the result of the housing bubble burst then name the BUSH policy that you think caused the situation.

Allowing the financial industry to do whatever they wanted, his tax cuts for the rich and starting two unecessary wars at a cost of $12 billion a month.

I just gave you 3.

How did he do that, is really what I meant. What law or executive order or whatever caused that to happen?

 

[Shelzin]

Gotta be careful... People might start thinking you are my alt. Or... Sock.. Whatever they call it in here.

I'm just fuckin' with Unkotare.

I know... I'm telling you they are going to think you are my alt. That's exactly something I would say or do.

I look forward to you saying something I disagree with to be honest with you. I like people who actually address what is said, and gives a full out no PC bullshit answer. Honesty and logic. Love that. Even if we disagree.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I tend to look at the broad/big picture. You know, like the facts that a relative few rich fucking assholes are trying to BUY this election and are funding only one side - the con side. Which makes it easy to assume that they expect something in return for their investments. What do you think that might be?

what about the rich fucking assholes who fund only the Liberal side?....dont you think they want something in return?......what do you think it might be?.....the trouble with many people here is they think the real rich Democrats are different than the real rich Conservatives.....when push comes to shove...see who they side with....the people or themselves.....rich people will side with other rich people because they have something in common.....its called Money.....

I don't think this is true at all as I believe most people want what's best for the country. But I will say a friend of mine who is a business broker and is worth millions has a different opinion. While he and I are aligned he believes much of the wall street money is only interested in enriching themselves and lowering or eliminating their taxes regardless of the effect on the country.

I don't think this is true at all as I believe most people want what's best for the country

most people are not the real Wealthy.....Wealthy people want whats best for their money and a hell of a lot of people will back the Politician who is for THEIR JOB existing as compared to the one who wants it ended....regardless of what it still existing means.........

 

[Londoner]

The one thing about this board that most baffles me is the incredible depth of hatred and contempt for liberals.

See Louis Althusser's "Ideological State Apparatus"

In capitalist societies money controls everything including opinion > media.

The wealthy provide incentives to people who smear liberalism.

This is how concentrated wealth is sustained.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Allowing the financial industry to do whatever they wanted, his tax cuts for the rich and starting two unecessary wars at a cost of $12 billion a month.

I just gave you 3.

were you part of the 10% of the Country who was against Bush attacking Afghanistan?...

That wasn't the stated mission. Bush said he would go to the gates of hell or some such nonsense to get those that committed 9/11. He lied about that too as he seemed to purposely let Ossama escape in Tora Bora.

If Bush had stated the truth of what he wanted to do which was get footprints in Afgahnistan so he could invade Iraq, Ossama be damned, he would have never had support. Bush and Cheney and Rice and Powell lied and moved the goal posts constantly with a heavy dose of fear mongering and lying bullshit to get us where we are today in those countries.

Bush could have easily sent in special ops with orders to kill Bin Ladin and got it over with in a couple of weeks.

He did not. He wasted over a trillion dollars ..got twice as many Americans killed as died on 9/11...was responsible for probably a million Afgans and Iraqis killed and maimed..several million displaced.

Don't mistake kindness for letting Bush off the hook for his blundering, plundering and murder for weakness or amnesia. If right was right Bush should be in prison. It's way too soon for the lying republicans to rewrite the history of Bush's crimes. Better leave it alone. The statute of limitations on treason, war profiteering and murder will never expire.

Huggy the guy said STARTING 2 unnecessary Wars....not how the War progressed and what happened afterwards......Bush had a good 90% of the Country behind him after 9/11 to go into Afghanistan.....that meant 10% were not behind him to go in.....none of us knew what was going to transpire those first weeks and how it fucked up......if he would have not used the word STARTING i would have ignored his statement.....

 

[Londoner]

For example...

Let's say that Blue Cross and Cigna agree not to compete in certain regions, so each can maintain high premiums and deliver high payouts to investors. And let's say that this lack of competition leads to a massive inflation of health costs. Lets say that Cox and Charter do the same thing with cable television and internet. Let's say that most of the major sectors in the USA are filled with these anti-trust agreements where companies - because of their lobbying efforts - form government protected monopolies.

Let's say a Liberal president discovers this problem and wants to break-up the health care monopolies by unwinding the poisonous consequences of lobbying. Meaning: let's say he wants to force these health insurance companies to compete. (Otherwise these monopolies will keep raising prices and decreasing service, which is the EXACT opposite of what Reaganomics promised)

Since "The Ideological State Apparatus" is owned partly by the Health Insurance monopolies, they pour money into think tanks, publishing groups, radio and television in order to convince the public that any attempt to break up their monopoly is socialism.

The public, lacking a formal education in political science and economics, buys it.

The public believes the problem is "government" rather than the private-sector-wealth that owns government.

Why do they believe this?

Because the wealthy own the Ideological State Apparatus and they pay for opinions.

 

[Unkotare]

And if you want to finish this conversation face-to-face, I"m at the 49ner Tavern in Long Beach, Ca every Friday between 4:30-5:30PM for happy hour.

I don't hide from anything, nor do I run from anyone. You get in my face, you're not going to see me backing up.

LOL. Drunk already, tough guy?

If you are only going to do one liners can you at least do something with some entertainment value if it doesn't have any real meaning?

Oh yeah? Well just you come down to Harry's Has Been Bar on Long Beach between 4:57 and 5:03PM, find the third stool from the end, and try saying that to my face! Why, I oughtta...

 

[Unkotare]

LOL. Drunk already, tough guy?

I'm not drunk!

Don't throw away your last excuse so easily.

 

[Shelzin]

LOL. Drunk already, tough guy?

If you are only going to do one liners can you at least do something with some entertainment value if it doesn't have any real meaning?

Oh yeah? Well just you come down to Harry's Has Been Bar on Long Beach between 4:57 and 5:03PM, find the third stool from the end, and try saying that to my face! Why, I oughtta...

*laughs*

That's better... Thank you.. lol

 

[Billo_Really]

Oh yeah? Well just you come down to Harry's Has Been Bar on Long Beach between 4:57 and 5:03PM, find the third stool from the end, and try saying that to my face! Why, I oughtta...

Actually, Harry's is in Sunset Beach right across the street from Captain Jacks.

 

[Billo_Really]

Don't throw away your last excuse so easily.

Apparently, you didn't see the one before it.

Post #482, to be exact.

 

[Unkotare]

Oh yeah? Well just you come down to Harry's Has Been Bar on Long Beach between 4:57 and 5:03PM, find the third stool from the end, and try saying that to my face! Why, I oughtta...

Actually, Harry's is in Sunset Beach right across the street from Captain Jacks.

I really don't care what gutter they throw you in at night.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The mental midgets think 8.4% unemployement is better than 5.3%.

Freewill -

Are you really giving the Bush adminstration a pass for eight years of failed economic policies?

The economy was doing quite well for most of President Bush's terms in office.

its better than the 10.8% were i am at.....

 

[Billo_Really]

I really don't care what gutter they throw you in at night.

Captain Jacks is far from a gutter.

The last time I went there, dinner for 2 cost me $174.