Why do so many people deny climate change

[JoeNormal]

I do know what a joule is. So how many degrees increase was it? Show it to me.

Where does this attitude come from that everybody owes you an explanation or data or education?

Are you helpless?

No one owes me an explanation.

If you can't convert Joules into degrees and grams of water, I'll understand.

Supply the volumes of water at various depths and I'll calculate it for you.

 

[PMZ]

I do know what a joule is. So how many degrees increase was it? Show it to me.

Where does this attitude come from that everybody owes you an explanation or data or education?

Are you helpless?

No one owes me an explanation.

If you can't convert Joules into degrees and grams of water, I'll understand.

You're the one asking the stupid questions.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Where does this attitude come from that everybody owes you an explanation or data or education?

Are you helpless?

No one owes me an explanation.

If you can't convert Joules into degrees and grams of water, I'll understand.

Supply the volumes of water at various depths and I'll calculate it for you.

Excellent! PMZ is the Trenberth expert, I'm sure he has that info.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Yeah, the Ocean ate the AGW that the IPCC just cut in half

That sounds about right

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Where does this attitude come from that everybody owes you an explanation or data or education?

Are you helpless?

No one owes me an explanation.

If you can't convert Joules into degrees and grams of water, I'll understand.

You're the one asking the stupid questions.

You're right, you're the science and Trenberth expert, and I'm just a denier, why would you have any info?

Silly of me to ask.

 

[JoeNormal]

No one owes me an explanation.

If you can't convert Joules into degrees and grams of water, I'll understand.

Supply the volumes of water at various depths and I'll calculate it for you.

Excellent! PMZ is the Trenberth expert, I'm sure he has that info.

Unless I'm mistaken, nobody on this site does climate prediction for a living. Why would he have that information? Do you want to know the temperature because you dispute the heat graph?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Supply the volumes of water at various depths and I'll calculate it for you.

Excellent! PMZ is the Trenberth expert, I'm sure he has that info.

Unless I'm mistaken, nobody on this site does climate prediction for a living. Why would he have that information? Do you want to know the temperature because you dispute the heat graph?

I want to know how he came up with such a large number.
If the temperature of a volume of water rises 0.1 degree, you can calculate the energy involved.
He gave the energy, I want to know the volume of water and the temperature.
Should be pretty easy, unless Trenberth pulled the number out of his ass.

 

[PMZ]

Excellent! PMZ is the Trenberth expert, I'm sure he has that info.

Unless I'm mistaken, nobody on this site does climate prediction for a living. Why would he have that information? Do you want to know the temperature because you dispute the heat graph?

I want to know how he came up with such a large number.
If the temperature of a volume of water rises 0.1 degree, you can calculate the energy involved.
He gave the energy, I want to know the volume of water and the temperature.
Should be pretty easy, unless Trenberth pulled the number out of his ass.

He's a scientist. You're a dumbass. Who's likely to be be making up stuff? He's capable of learning about the real world and modeling it. You are not.

You questioning what climate science knows is the laughing stock of the third millennium. No wonder that conservative nonsense is losing ground every day.

 

[itfitzme]

Wow! That's huge!!!

What is that, 10 or 15 degrees Celsius? I'm convinced.

This is funny as all get out given your sig: you don't know what a joule is, do you. And keep in mind that the point I was refuting was the numbskull westwall's claim that we couldn't show it to him.

I do know what a joule is. So how many degrees increase was it? Show it to me.

Ah, come on Todd, I know your not this stupid.

 

[JoeNormal]

Excellent! PMZ is the Trenberth expert, I'm sure he has that info.

Unless I'm mistaken, nobody on this site does climate prediction for a living. Why would he have that information? Do you want to know the temperature because you dispute the heat graph?

I want to know how he came up with such a large number.
If the temperature of a volume of water rises 0.1 degree, you can calculate the energy involved.
He gave the energy, I want to know the volume of water and the temperature.
Should be pretty easy, unless Trenberth pulled the number out of his ass.

Here's an estimate as a sanity check.

Volume of the oceans: 1.3 * 10^9 km^3
Specific gravity of water: 1 kg/dm^3

This converts to 1.3 * 10^21 kg

Specific heat of water: deg C = 4.186 Joules / gram

Using an approximation of 10 * 10^22 Joules rise since 2000, this converts to a 0.32 deg C rise. That's easily measurable. In fact, the resolution of a thermometer that's specifically designed for this is probably 100 times that.

 

[PMZ]

From another thread.


There is no question that economics is what will ultimately be the death of fossil fuels. That’s why big oil is so committed to kill alternatives. They want to ride reduced supply and increased global demand to the last BTU. That can't happen if consumers have choices.

The way that we can hasten the end of all of the known and hidden costs of fossil fuels is to raise their prices and lower sustainable prices.

Making investments in wind and solar capability advantageous, leverages public and private resources and prepares us for the inevitable day when electricity is the majority fuel on roads and tracks.

After all, sustainable energy is almost all capital investment, and fossil fuel creates high capital and operating and waste disposal costs, but the capital equipment is largely in place. Our goal ought to be to make the transition from fossil to electric transportation without spending another nickle on fossil fueled capital, while steadily reducing the percent every year of new cars and trucks and trains that demand it.

Obama's higher CAFE standards are a necessary but small step towards energy freedom. We need gentle but relentless pressure, to increase our progress.

 

[flacaltenn]

Funny how you clowns haven't been able to come up with anything other than "the oceans ate my heat but I can't show it to you!"

WTF is this you numbskull?

Wow! That's huge!!!

What is that, 10 or 15 degrees Celsius? I'm convinced.

Me too... I'm SHOCKED that any heat energy gets stored in the oceans..
Why didn't Trenberth KNOW that the FIRST TIME he engraved an energy budget??

Note the little gidgy in the bottom right. The energy is equivalent to something like a source of 0.3 or 0.4W/m2... That's 1/4 of the increased forcing (they say) from CO2. So they've found 25% of the missing warming that didn't heat the Earth's surface.. I say they should keep looking...

AND --- they need to keep an eye on THIS toxic warming --- least it multiplies or goes to hide somewhere else..

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Unless I'm mistaken, nobody on this site does climate prediction for a living. Why would he have that information? Do you want to know the temperature because you dispute the heat graph?

I want to know how he came up with such a large number.
If the temperature of a volume of water rises 0.1 degree, you can calculate the energy involved.
He gave the energy, I want to know the volume of water and the temperature.
Should be pretty easy, unless Trenberth pulled the number out of his ass.

He's a scientist. You're a dumbass. Who's likely to be be making up stuff? He's capable of learning about the real world and modeling it. You are not.

You questioning what climate science knows is the laughing stock of the third millennium. No wonder that conservative nonsense is losing ground every day.

He's a scientist.

Then why can't you use his results to back into temperature and volume of water?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Unless I'm mistaken, nobody on this site does climate prediction for a living. Why would he have that information? Do you want to know the temperature because you dispute the heat graph?

I want to know how he came up with such a large number.
If the temperature of a volume of water rises 0.1 degree, you can calculate the energy involved.
He gave the energy, I want to know the volume of water and the temperature.
Should be pretty easy, unless Trenberth pulled the number out of his ass.

Here's an estimate as a sanity check.

Volume of the oceans: 1.3 * 10^9 km^3
Specific gravity of water: 1 kg/dm^3

This converts to 1.3 * 10^21 kg

Specific heat of water: deg C = 4.186 Joules / gram

Using an approximation of 10 * 10^22 Joules rise since 2000, this converts to a 0.32 deg C rise. That's easily measurable. In fact, the resolution of a thermometer that's specifically designed for this is probably 100 times that.

Thanks. It is rather shocking that such a large increase over the entire volume of our oceans wasn't discovered until so recently.

 

[itfitzme]

Unless I'm mistaken, nobody on this site does climate prediction for a living. Why would he have that information? Do you want to know the temperature because you dispute the heat graph?

I want to know how he came up with such a large number.
If the temperature of a volume of water rises 0.1 degree, you can calculate the energy involved.
He gave the energy, I want to know the volume of water and the temperature.
Should be pretty easy, unless Trenberth pulled the number out of his ass.

Here's an estimate as a sanity check.

Volume of the oceans: 1.3 * 10^9 km^3
Specific gravity of water: 1 kg/dm^3

This converts to 1.3 * 10^21 kg

Specific heat of water: deg C = 4.186 Joules / gram

Using an approximation of 10 * 10^22 Joules rise since 2000, this converts to a 0.32 deg C rise. That's easily measurable. In fact, the resolution of a thermometer that's specifically designed for this is probably 100 times that.

"The temperatures in the Argo profiles are accurate to ± 0.005°C and depths are accurate to ± 5m."

www.argo.ucsd.edu/FAQ.html*

Well, actually 64 times. Just to be precise.

 

[itfitzme]

I want to know how he came up with such a large number.
If the temperature of a volume of water rises 0.1 degree, you can calculate the energy involved.
He gave the energy, I want to know the volume of water and the temperature.
Should be pretty easy, unless Trenberth pulled the number out of his ass.

Here's an estimate as a sanity check.

Volume of the oceans: 1.3 * 10^9 km^3
Specific gravity of water: 1 kg/dm^3

This converts to 1.3 * 10^21 kg

Specific heat of water: deg C = 4.186 Joules / gram

Using an approximation of 10 * 10^22 Joules rise since 2000, this converts to a 0.32 deg C rise. That's easily measurable. In fact, the resolution of a thermometer that's specifically designed for this is probably 100 times that.

Thanks. It is rather shocking that such a large increase over the entire volume of our oceans wasn't discovered until so recently.

Not really. The ocean is huge and setting up a system of accurate and precise measurement isn't as simple as setting up a system of land based measures.

As I am sure I've said before, your confusion doesn't translate to anyone else not knowing.

 

[PMZ]

WTF is this you numbskull?

Wow! That's huge!!!

What is that, 10 or 15 degrees Celsius? I'm convinced.

Me too... I'm SHOCKED that any heat energy gets stored in the oceans..
Why didn't Trenberth KNOW that the FIRST TIME he engraved an energy budget??

Note the little gidgy in the bottom right. The energy is equivalent to something like a source of 0.3 or 0.4W/m2... That's 1/4 of the increased forcing (they say) from CO2. So they've found 25% of the missing warming that didn't heat the Earth's surface.. I say they should keep looking...

AND --- they need to keep an eye on THIS toxic warming --- least it multiplies or goes to hide somewhere else..

You are still completely confused about the difference between climate and weather.

Trenberth's energy budget is the big picture for the earth, in total, based on average conditions over the long term. There probably isn't any specific sq meter on earth that experiences those exact conditions except for very briefly. Given that, plus the fact that the energy budget must be maintained as the long term, overall average, is accomplished by weather.

Weather is constantly moving energy between land and life, oceans and ice, and atmosphere searching to satisfy the only stable condition there can be, energy in = energy out.

 

[itfitzme]

Excellent! PMZ is the Trenberth expert, I'm sure he has that info.

Unless I'm mistaken, nobody on this site does climate prediction for a living. Why would he have that information? Do you want to know the temperature because you dispute the heat graph?

I want to know how he came up with such a large number.
If the temperature of a volume of water rises 0.1 degree, you can calculate the energy involved.
He gave the energy, I want to know the volume of water and the temperature.
Should be pretty easy, unless Trenberth pulled the number out of his ass.

According to your signature, the math should be easiery for you. Why is it that someone else managed to complete it before you?

Here's an estimate as a sanity check.

Volume of the oceans: 1.3 * 10^9 km^3
Specific gravity of water: 1 kg/dm^3

This converts to 1.3 * 10^21 kg

Specific heat of water: deg C = 4.186 Joules / gram

Using an approximation of 10 * 10^22 Joules rise since 2000, this converts to a 0.32 deg C rise. That's easily measurable. In fact, the resolution of a thermometer that's specifically designed for this is probably 100 times that.

See why just asking dumb questions and saying your smart doesn't make it so?

 

[flacaltenn]

Unless I'm mistaken, nobody on this site does climate prediction for a living. Why would he have that information? Do you want to know the temperature because you dispute the heat graph?

I want to know how he came up with such a large number.
If the temperature of a volume of water rises 0.1 degree, you can calculate the energy involved.
He gave the energy, I want to know the volume of water and the temperature.
Should be pretty easy, unless Trenberth pulled the number out of his ass.

Here's an estimate as a sanity check.

Volume of the oceans: 1.3 * 10^9 km^3
Specific gravity of water: 1 kg/dm^3

This converts to 1.3 * 10^21 kg

Specific heat of water: deg C = 4.186 Joules / gram

Using an approximation of 10 * 10^22 Joules rise since 2000, this converts to a 0.32 deg C rise. That's easily measurable. In fact, the resolution of a thermometer that's specifically designed for this is probably 100 times that.

1st cut? OK.. Now take sea water specifically. and add the pressure effects.. Good luck with the "more than 700m" description from this "letter"..

Part of the problem here -- is to my knowledge --- a PAPER on this topic has never been written giving the details for review.. It was published as a TWO PAGE "letter".

Rather hard -- even IF you're in the field -- to critique something this SWEEPING from "a letter".. Wonder why these details are not worth sharing with the general science audience?

 

[itfitzme]

I want to know how he came up with such a large number.
If the temperature of a volume of water rises 0.1 degree, you can calculate the energy involved.
He gave the energy, I want to know the volume of water and the temperature.
Should be pretty easy, unless Trenberth pulled the number out of his ass.

Here's an estimate as a sanity check.

Volume of the oceans: 1.3 * 10^9 km^3
Specific gravity of water: 1 kg/dm^3

This converts to 1.3 * 10^21 kg

Specific heat of water: deg C = 4.186 Joules / gram

Using an approximation of 10 * 10^22 Joules rise since 2000, this converts to a 0.32 deg C rise. That's easily measurable. In fact, the resolution of a thermometer that's specifically designed for this is probably 100 times that.

1st cut? OK.. Now take sea water specifically. and add the pressure effects.. Good luck with the "more than 700m" description from this "letter"..

Part of the problem here -- is to my knowledge --- a PAPER on this topic has never been written giving the details for review.. It was published as a TWO PAGE "letter".

Rather hard -- even IF you're in the field -- to critique something this SWEEPING from "a letter".. Wonder why these details are not worth sharing with the general science audience?

Why? He's pretty much buried you with basic calculations that you aren't capable of.

Prove him wrong. You take sea water specifically, add pressure effects.....

Good luck with that.