Why do the God-haters persist?

[hobelim]

In other words, you got nothing. Got it.

Seems to me he had something and you couldn't refute it. That's beginning to be a pattern here. hobelim and myself rarely ever agree on anything, in fact we may have never agreed on anything, probably don't agree on the subject of God either, but both he and I have attempted to engage you in honest objective discourse, only to have you reject what we said without rebuttal. If your goal is to come here and proclaim that no one here can make you believe in God... guess what? You win! That's not going to happen, none of us expect it to. So... you win, give yourself a cookie and go surf porn!

LOL....

Thanks Boss, that was very kind of you given our previous disagreements that have been a bit rancorous. ..


Obviously this poster doesn't believe that to understand the answers to his own question requires intelligent thought that he seems to have confused with derision and obstinate stupidity.


And I would point out that I did not even attempt to prove the existence of God but pointed out that the brain is the most important tool used for perception and if the mind is full of thought viruses, false assumptions, and a self righteousness that that results in a self indulgent and petulant disposition it wouldn't be able to see anything as it exists in actuality even if he was smacked upside his head by God himself for being a dick.

 

[Boss]

In other words, you got nothing. Got it.

Seems to me he had something and you couldn't refute it. That's beginning to be a pattern here. hobelim and myself rarely ever agree on anything, in fact we may have never agreed on anything, probably don't agree on the subject of God either, but both he and I have attempted to engage you in honest objective discourse, only to have you reject what we said without rebuttal. If your goal is to come here and proclaim that no one here can make you believe in God... guess what? You win! That's not going to happen, none of us expect it to. So... you win, give yourself a cookie and go surf porn!

LOL....

Thanks Boss, that was very kind of you given our previous disagreements that have been a bit rancorous. ..


Obviously this poster doesn't believe that to understand the answers to his own question requires intelligent thought that he seems to have confused with derision and obstinate stupidity.


And I would point out that I did not even attempt to prove the existence of God but pointed out that the brain is the most important tool used for perception and if the mind is full of thought viruses, false assumptions, and a self righteousness that that results in a self indulgent and petulant disposition it wouldn't be able to see anything as it exists in actuality even if he was smacked upside his head by God himself for being a dick.

You are absolutely correct, and I don't get to say that often.

 

[BillyP]

I didn't say I could prove God. I certainly can't prove God to you. That's not proof God doesn't exist or something had to create God. Unless you have evidence to support your claim, it is a matter of faith. I have no problem with having faith in God. I also don't have a problem with you having faith there isn't a God, but you don't get to present that as fact.

Since everything in the universe came from something else, let's just assume your god was made as well, until proven otherwise. And again, I'm agnostic, I see no proof for or against a god.

Energy and gravity didn't come from something else. God created the universe, time and reality. You can assume anything you like, it doesn't make it a fact. No... you're an atheist who doesn't believe in God, why do you avoid that?

Energy and gravity were made during the Big Bang. I see no proof that there absolutely can't be a god. But as for right now, I see no proof that there is one either.

 

[hobelim]

Seems to me he had something and you couldn't refute it. That's beginning to be a pattern here. hobelim and myself rarely ever agree on anything, in fact we may have never agreed on anything, probably don't agree on the subject of God either, but both he and I have attempted to engage you in honest objective discourse, only to have you reject what we said without rebuttal. If your goal is to come here and proclaim that no one here can make you believe in God... guess what? You win! That's not going to happen, none of us expect it to. So... you win, give yourself a cookie and go surf porn!

LOL....

Thanks Boss, that was very kind of you given our previous disagreements that have been a bit rancorous. ..


Obviously this poster doesn't believe that to understand the answers to his own question requires intelligent thought that he seems to have confused with derision and obstinate stupidity.


And I would point out that I did not even attempt to prove the existence of God but pointed out that the brain is the most important tool used for perception and if the mind is full of thought viruses, false assumptions, and a self righteousness that that results in a self indulgent and petulant disposition it wouldn't be able to see anything as it exists in actuality even if he was smacked upside his head by God himself for being a dick.

You are absolutely correct, and I don't get to say that often.

If his posts are any reflection of the condition of his mind, and they are, he has probably had proof of God for all of his life but because of the condition of his mind he probably thinks he just has bad luck, or believes in Murphy law, or its religion, or the gays, illegal aliens, the Jews, the government, or that he was born under a bad sign......

 

[Boss]

Energy and gravity were made during the Big Bang. I see no proof that there absolutely can't be a god. But as for right now, I see no proof that there is one either.

You have a bad habit of stating your faith-based beliefs as facts. According to physics, energy cannot be created or destroyed. Also, if gravity did not exist prior to the Big Bang, how did the Big Bang happen? Theory of Singularity posits the collective mass of the universe was compressed (by gravity) into a singular point which exploded, creating the Big Bang. Without gravity, that isn't possible. So gravity and energy were not made during the Big Bang or there could have been no Big Bang.

If you honestly see no proof there absolutely can't be a God, stop acting like this is a fact. Admit that it IS possible and those who believe in God could be correct. If you don't see proof there is a God, read what hobelim wrote, he's explaining why that might be the case for you. It is very difficult for us humans to "see proof" of that which we wish to reject.

No one is going to be able to prove God to you through physical sciences. That's not to say that someday, at some point, we might be able to unlock this mystery through science. I personally believe the revelations of quantum mechanics may be a pathway to a real scientific explanation for what we perceive as "spiritual nature" or God. I can't PROVE that, it's beyond my ability to do so at this time. But it's okay because I don't have to prove what I know. I make a real connection to something greater than self everyday, and it does not matter to me if you believe that or accept it as such. I am aware of it and know it's real, and that's all that really matters to me personally.

 

[BillyP]

Energy and gravity were made during the Big Bang. I see no proof that there absolutely can't be a god. But as for right now, I see no proof that there is one either.

You have a bad habit of stating your faith-based beliefs as facts. According to physics, energy cannot be created or destroyed. Also, if gravity did not exist prior to the Big Bang, how did the Big Bang happen? Theory of Singularity posits the collective mass of the universe was compressed (by gravity) into a singular point which exploded, creating the Big Bang. Without gravity, that isn't possible. So gravity and energy were not made during the Big Bang or there could have been no Big Bang.

If you honestly see no proof there absolutely can't be a God, stop acting like this is a fact. Admit that it IS possible and those who believe in God could be correct. If you don't see proof there is a God, read what hobelim wrote, he's explaining why that might be the case for you. It is very difficult for us humans to "see proof" of that which we wish to reject.

No one is going to be able to prove God to you through physical sciences. That's not to say that someday, at some point, we might be able to unlock this mystery through science. I personally believe the revelations of quantum mechanics may be a pathway to a real scientific explanation for what we perceive as "spiritual nature" or God. I can't PROVE that, it's beyond my ability to do so at this time. But it's okay because I don't have to prove what I know. I make a real connection to something greater than self everyday, and it does not matter to me if you believe that or accept it as such. I am aware of it and know it's real, and that's all that really matters to me personally.

Those who believe in a god are wrong about the stupid kind of god there might be, who judges people... Although it is possible that that is true, it goes against all common sense, not to mention science as we know it today. And I see no proof of such a god.

 

[BreezeWood]

I didn't say I could prove God. I certainly can't prove God to you. That's not proof God doesn't exist or something had to create God. Unless you have evidence to support your claim, it is a matter of faith. I have no problem with having faith in God. I also don't have a problem with you having faith there isn't a God, but you don't get to present that as fact.

Do you have faith that there isn't Zeus.

I do have faith there isn't Zeus.

Boss: 2.) I have not said that fauna/flora are devoid of spirit. I accepted your argument that they could have spiritual connection we're not aware of. My rationale is to not dismiss possibility.

My rationale is to not dismiss possibility.


whatevere is your point - are you saying you will perish with your physiology - or, you alone are what will survive in the Everlasting -

God did not create the Universe, the Universe is a matter of the Everlasting and from which arose life, guided presently by the "Almighty" - and subordinated by Zeus.

you live by yourself Boss, without love ?

.

 

[BillyP]

Well... prayer, worship and miracles... anything else? lol...see how that worked?

I said actual proof. If you have any actual proof of all the stuff you claim about god... I'll listen with an open mind. In fact, it's one of the reasons that I came here to this board, to see if there was any here. So far, nope.

God is incorporeal, pure mind. If you want to see proof of God you must have a pure mind.

If in your mind you are seeking proof of the existence of God as defined by a superficial literal interpretation of scripture perpetuated by the superstitious, you will look and look and look for evidence but you will never find anything.

In other words if what you believe about God is false because you are looking for the God defined by Christians, a triune god made man, you will never find it because it does not exist and what Christians profess to believe about God does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence.

If you look and look and keep on looking for a more rational interpretation of scripture that conforms to the image of a loving and benevolent God by discerning the deeper implications of the words and subjects written, then everywhere you look you will see evidence of God.

Why must you have a pure mind to see god? That's kinda random. And book quoting doesn't count, that's a book, for crissakes.

 

[GISMYS]

18 I know very well how foolish it sounds to those who are lost, when they hear that Jesus died to save them. But we who are saved* recognize this message as the very power of God. 19 For God says, “I will destroy all human plans of salvation no matter how wise they seem to be, and ignore the best ideas of men, even the most brilliant of them.”

20 So what about these wise men, these scholars, these brilliant debaters of this world’s great affairs? God has made them all look foolish and shown their wisdom to be useless nonsense. 21 For God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never find God through human brilliance, and then he stepped in and saved all those who believed his message, which the world calls foolish and silly. 22 It seems foolish to the Jews because they want a sign from heaven as proof that what is preached is true; and it is foolish to the Gentiles because they believe only what agrees with their philosophy and seems wise to them. 23 So when we preach about Christ dying to save them, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense. 24 But God has opened the eyes of those called to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, to see that Christ is the mighty power of God to save them; Christ himself is the center of God’s wise plan for their salvation. 25 This so-called “foolish” plan of God is far wiser than the wisest plan of the wisest man, and God in his weakness—Christ dying on the cross—is far stronger than any man.
1 Corinthians 1:18-25

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The statement 'energy can't be created or destroyed' is oft-cited, but completely wrong. It's been likened to 'what you learn in a physics 101' course but not what you learn in grad school.

When matter is pulled into a black hole, it is for all intents and purposes destroyed. Latest hypotheses suggest maybe not. But since the PNR (point of no return) isn't something we can cross to check, we may have to limit our reference frame to different points for different things. Like answers to scientific truth which if not prepared to sit through an entire day of lectures is better summed up into one sentence.

So "energy cannot be created or destroyed" is true "enough." But not absolutely true. Also, it's not "energy" any more it's "information." Everything in the universe is information if you can measure it.

 

[hobelim]

I said actual proof. If you have any actual proof of all the stuff you claim about god... I'll listen with an open mind. In fact, it's one of the reasons that I came here to this board, to see if there was any here. So far, nope.

God is incorporeal, pure mind. If you want to see proof of God you must have a pure mind.

If in your mind you are seeking proof of the existence of God as defined by a superficial literal interpretation of scripture perpetuated by the superstitious, you will look and look and look for evidence but you will never find anything.

In other words if what you believe about God is false because you are looking for the God defined by Christians, a triune god made man, you will never find it because it does not exist and what Christians profess to believe about God does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence.

If you look and look and keep on looking for a more rational interpretation of scripture that conforms to the image of a loving and benevolent God by discerning the deeper implications of the words and subjects written, then everywhere you look you will see evidence of God.

Why must you have a pure mind to see god? That's kinda random. And book quoting doesn't count, that's a book, for crissakes.

What I mean by pure mind is a mind that is open, honest, and rational. That's not random, that's essential to comprehension.

And it is not about judgement or crime and punishment as it is about cause and effect, action and consequence.


For instance, if a gullible person swallows any garbage they hear, their mind will as a consequence become confused.

Its not a punishment from God but a law as real as gravity.

If there is a person who thinks rationally but one day is persuaded to accept something irrational, that belief will defile and contaminate their mind and they will become a creature that cannot think rationally.

 

[GISMYS]

God is incorporeal, pure mind. If you want to see proof of God you must have a pure mind.

If in your mind you are seeking proof of the existence of God as defined by a superficial literal interpretation of scripture perpetuated by the superstitious, you will look and look and look for evidence but you will never find anything.

In other words if what you believe about God is false because you are looking for the God defined by Christians, a triune god made man, you will never find it because it does not exist and what Christians profess to believe about God does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence.

If you look and look and keep on looking for a more rational interpretation of scripture that conforms to the image of a loving and benevolent God by discerning the deeper implications of the words and subjects written, then everywhere you look you will see evidence of God.

Why must you have a pure mind to see god? That's kinda random. And book quoting doesn't count, that's a book, for crissakes.

What I mean by pure mind is a mind that is open, honest, and rational. That's not random, that's essential to comprehension.

And it is not about judgement or crime and punishment as it is about cause and effect, action and consequence.


For instance, if a gullible person swallows any garbage they hear, their mind will as a consequence become confused.

Its not a punishment from God but a law as real as gravity.

If there is a person who thinks rationally but one day is persuaded to accept something irrational, that belief will defile and contaminate their mind and they will become a creature that cannot think rationally.

ROFLMAO!!! OK!!! YOU KNOW YOUR PROBLEM =NOW do something about it!!! TWEAK!

 

[Boss]

Energy and gravity were made during the Big Bang. I see no proof that there absolutely can't be a god. But as for right now, I see no proof that there is one either.

You have a bad habit of stating your faith-based beliefs as facts. According to physics, energy cannot be created or destroyed. Also, if gravity did not exist prior to the Big Bang, how did the Big Bang happen? Theory of Singularity posits the collective mass of the universe was compressed (by gravity) into a singular point which exploded, creating the Big Bang. Without gravity, that isn't possible. So gravity and energy were not made during the Big Bang or there could have been no Big Bang.

If you honestly see no proof there absolutely can't be a God, stop acting like this is a fact. Admit that it IS possible and those who believe in God could be correct. If you don't see proof there is a God, read what hobelim wrote, he's explaining why that might be the case for you. It is very difficult for us humans to "see proof" of that which we wish to reject.

No one is going to be able to prove God to you through physical sciences. That's not to say that someday, at some point, we might be able to unlock this mystery through science. I personally believe the revelations of quantum mechanics may be a pathway to a real scientific explanation for what we perceive as "spiritual nature" or God. I can't PROVE that, it's beyond my ability to do so at this time. But it's okay because I don't have to prove what I know. I make a real connection to something greater than self everyday, and it does not matter to me if you believe that or accept it as such. I am aware of it and know it's real, and that's all that really matters to me personally.

Those who believe in a god are wrong about the stupid kind of god there might be, who judges people... Although it is possible that that is true, it goes against all common sense, not to mention science as we know it today. And I see no proof of such a god.

Well but the thing is, God doesn't HAVE to conform to what some people have perceived through their religion. I'm not big on religion, I believe religion is merely man's way of trying to comprehend a spiritual energy he can't quite understand. I don't believe it goes against common sense to consider that if man has been spiritually connecting with something for all his existence, and this attribute is consistently present in 90% or more of the species, there is probably something to that.

Science, again, does not and has not disproved God. As of now, science can't evaluate spiritual existence. So why would you rely on science to make this determination? That seems to defy common sense. Perhaps you see no "proof" of God because you're looking for physical proof of something that isn't physical?

Now, let's examine your devout faith in science and physics... do you believe it's possible for matter to disappear from existence, reappear somewhere else, or exist in two places at the same time? While this may sound pretty fucking incredible and impossible to believe, it happens all the time with electrons. These electrons are found in every single bit of matter in the universe. The thing that makes physics so fascinating is it can explain things that seem impossible. This goes back to Isaac Newton pondering gravity, and why the moon didn't come crashing down to earth, if gravity is present. Physics explains what keeps the moon suspended in the sky when "common sense" might suggest it must be controlled by some 'supernatural' force. But the thing is... what explains WHY physics works?

 

[Boss]

Do you have faith that there isn't Zeus.

I do have faith there isn't Zeus.

Boss: 2.) I have not said that fauna/flora are devoid of spirit. I accepted your argument that they could have spiritual connection we're not aware of. My rationale is to not dismiss possibility.

My rationale is to not dismiss possibility.


whatevere is your point - are you saying you will perish with your physiology - or, you alone are what will survive in the Everlasting -

God did not create the Universe, the Universe is a matter of the Everlasting and from which arose life, guided presently by the "Almighty" - and subordinated by Zeus.

you live by yourself Boss, without love ?

.

I am more than my physiology. That part of me which is not physical will exist beyond my physical life because it's not bound by physical rules of entropy and time. I believe spiritual nature created physical nature because physical nature could not create itself. This spiritual nature is what I define as "God." It has no humanistic attributes, it doesn't "judge" people on the basis of ancient religious dogma, and it's very much an omnipresent and omnipotent force residing within our universe and beyond. You seem to believe the same thing as I, you just call your thing "Almighty" or "Everlasting." I'm completely cool with that.

 

[GISMYS]

little man! keepyour silly ideas and opinions as they are utter foolishness!!! HOW TRUE GOD'S WORD IS=ETERNAL TRUTH!!18 I know very well how foolish it sounds to those who are lost, when they hear that Jesus died to save them. But we who are saved* recognize this message as the very power of God. 19 For God says, “I will destroy all human plans of salvation no matter how wise they seem to be, and ignore the best ideas of men, even the most brilliant of them.”

20 So what about these wise men, these scholars, these brilliant debaters of this world’s great affairs? God has made them all look foolish and shown their wisdom to be useless nonsense. 21 For God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never find God through human brilliance, and then he stepped in and saved all those who believed his message, which the world calls foolish and silly. 22 It seems foolish to the Jews because they want a sign from heaven as proof that what is preached is true; and it is foolish to the Gentiles because they believe only what agrees with their philosophy and seems wise to them. 23 So when we preach about Christ dying to save them, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense. 24 But God has opened the eyes of those called to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, to see that Christ is the mighty power of God to save them; Christ himself is the center of God’s wise plan for their salvation. 25 This so-called “foolish” plan of God is far wiser than the wisest plan of the wisest man, and God in his weakness—Christ dying on the cross—is far stronger than any man.
1 Corinthians 1:18-25

 

[sealybobo]

I've not seen all this "evidence and facts" you claim exists. When are you planning on releasing that? Your OPINION on things are not facts or evidence of anything other than your utter stupidity. I've already debunked every claim you've presented with factual scientific data that you've not refuted. You have proven that you are going to continue ignoring that and reposting the same argument over and over again, like some kind of autobot.

The fact remains, about 90% of the human race believes in something spiritual, and about 10% don't. The majority includes scientists, doctors, geniuses, and people from every walk of life. You've not proven anything wrong, in fact, you've not even offered any valid evidence that anything is wrong. We've been waiting for that for weeks, over 5,000 posts now, still... *crickets*

You've shown me nothing nada zero zilch. You believe because man has always believed and you have this silly notions about spirituality.

I'm not claiming God is a proven scientific fact and you just refuse to accept the evidence. That's the argument you want to make against God and you've not presented any evidence. When I point that detail out, you lament that I haven't proven God exists. Round and round we go. Look... the fact that I haven't given you sufficient proof of God's existence, doesn't mean that you've proven God doesn't exist. You stated that I am denying all the facts and evidence, but you've not presented any facts or evidence. If you have some, present it! If not, stop claiming you've presented it!

And you haven't shot anything I've said down other than in your own head. I've given you pretty much the standard atheist come backs to all the things that theists usually say but I have to say you have a very wild imagination and are able to pick and choose the parts of religion you like and throw away the parts you don't like. How lovely you can do that and in your head you are right. It must be nice. I hear ignorance is bliss so you must be really happy.

Oh, but I have shot down every supposition made by you and your atheist blog. You claim that man invented God, but there is no scientific evidence to support that belief. Archeology suggests that's just not true. The biology of animal behavior also doesn't lend any support. You claim it was to "explain the unknown" but God doesn't explain the unknown, science does. You claim it is to "console fears" but nothing else in nature has this problem, not to mention the utter absurdity that you can somehow console fear with something totally of the imagination. Nothing else in nature grapples with it's mortality. We only do so because we are aware of immortality, through spiritual connection. You've provided nothing to refute that because you can't.

90% of humans being spiritual isn't proof of God, but even Darwin would contend it does mean something significant to the species if it's THAT fundamental to the general behavior. You can present n example of behavior in any living thing, across 90% of the species, which has no relevance whatsoever.

As for religion, I don't subscribe to religions. I believe they are man-made incarnations prompted by our spiritual connection to something greater. They are clearly evidence that man does make some kind of metaphysical connection to something greater. Humans are spiritually connected, always have been, always will be. If you don't like that, I am sorry... just a fact of life.

You show me your evidence that humans didn't make up god that instead they had sound, reasonable, rational, logical reasons for making up god.

Because either they made it up or you're saying god visited them.

And the proof I have they made it up is that I am over 40 years old and I've seen no proof. So either you are suggesting god spoke with them or they are like you, just another idiot who has his own definition of god and his own personal relationship.

I'm not being rude. I was just like you. I use to talk to god too. I woke up. Won't you?

In fact you freak, you claim god talks to you and you talk to god. If that is how god talked to them back 10,000 years ago when they invented the idea of god, then that is my proof it is all fucking made up, because aint no god talking to you just like when I was JUST LIKE YOU and I had a "personal relationship" with god. All Greeks think they have a personal relationship with god. That is unless they are smart enough to realize they are just talking to themselves.

So no god talked to the original man. How do I know? Because no god talked to adam and eve, noah, mosus, budda, mohammad, joseph smith or you.

What does my site prove? That scientifically all the organized religions are BULLSHIT. You agree with my site on that. Ok then lets move on. You also agree there is no proof a god exists. And then you try to redefine god, just like my site said you would. I swear if there are 50 points that site makes, 45 of them answer all of your come backs. The come backs you think are so slick. You're just another confused christian buddy. You're just like me when I left Christianity. It isn't that much of a leap once you realize the whole thing is made up to come to the conclusion that your uneducated ape ancestors just made it up.

You want proof? Just you asking me for proof still makes you an ignorant fuck. Lets get in my time machine and go back and see. Fucking fool. Science says you are 99.999 probably wrong. Agnostic Atheism.

 

[Montrovant]

Of course you consider it nit-picking to point out that your complaint was addressed in the portion of the post you left out. You claim the rest of what he said didn't matter even though what he said directly addressed your post; that the premise was false.

Logically valid and true are not the same thing. His conclusion was logical even though the premise was untrue. The truth of a premise is not the basis for whether the form of the argument is valid. Here, let me give a couple of links which go into this a bit :
Logical validity - RationalWiki
Logically Valid Arguments | Ethical Realism

And argument can be logically valid and entirely false. The logic used to reach a conclusion can be correct whether the premise is true or not. So, once again, to break the argument sealy used down, A = X. B = A. Therefore, B = X. The argument was untrue but the conclusion was reached logically based on the statements given.

I have not brought up any rules regarding editing posts and don't care if you did or did not violate the rules in doing so. I only care about the editing in that what you left out already spoke to, at least in part, your complaint.

I know the difference between 'logically valid' and 'true or false' and his presentation was both logically invalid and false. He did not, and you have not, spoken to the initial error that the argument was logically valid. 'All cups are green' and 'Socrates is a cup' remain logically invalid and incorrect arguments. Wiki links don't change that. If A=X and B=A, then A, B and X all have the same value and are interchangeable.

It's amazing how consistent you are in doing the very things you complain about.

His structure was logically valid. If all cups are green and Socrates is a cup, is Socrates green? Logically, yes. The facts that all cups are not green and Socrates is not a cup have no affect on the solid logic used to reach the conclusion. All cups are green is not a logically invalid argument, it isn't even an argument. It's an incorrect statement. Socrates is a cup is not a logically invalid argument, it isn't even an argument. It's an incorrect statement. However, if you put those two incorrect statements together, the logically valid conclusion is that Socrates is green.

Yes, one of my links is from rationalwiki. I'm sorry you have some kind of adverse reaction to such a link. Of course, the other link isn't from a wiki. And in both cases, the links were provided merely in the hope that you would see that the fact the statements used in sealy's silly little logic chain are false does not make it logically invalid. In both links it is pointed out that the truth of the statements used is not the determining factor in whether it is logical. To put it simply, logic is about the reasoning used to reach a conclusion, not about truth.

My letter representation doesn't work for you? Fine. How about this then :
If A, than X.
B = A.
If B = A, than X.
Does that make it more palatable to you? If something is a cup (A), than it is green (X). Socrates (B) is a cup (A). If Socrates (B) is a cup (A), than it is green (X).

Or maybe substitute is for the equals sign :
A is X.
B = A.
B is X.

How about an example that's true as well as logically valid?
All domestic dogs are part of the Canidae family.
Spot is a domestic dog.
Spot is part of the Canidae family.

But you think this is all logically invalid, so why don't you tell me what the conclusion should be? If all cups are green, if Socrates is a cup, then what is the logical conclusion about Socrates?

Maybe you'd better complain about my links again and nit-pick my letter representations?

 

[BillyP]

You have a bad habit of stating your faith-based beliefs as facts. According to physics, energy cannot be created or destroyed. Also, if gravity did not exist prior to the Big Bang, how did the Big Bang happen? Theory of Singularity posits the collective mass of the universe was compressed (by gravity) into a singular point which exploded, creating the Big Bang. Without gravity, that isn't possible. So gravity and energy were not made during the Big Bang or there could have been no Big Bang.

If you honestly see no proof there absolutely can't be a God, stop acting like this is a fact. Admit that it IS possible and those who believe in God could be correct. If you don't see proof there is a God, read what hobelim wrote, he's explaining why that might be the case for you. It is very difficult for us humans to "see proof" of that which we wish to reject.

No one is going to be able to prove God to you through physical sciences. That's not to say that someday, at some point, we might be able to unlock this mystery through science. I personally believe the revelations of quantum mechanics may be a pathway to a real scientific explanation for what we perceive as "spiritual nature" or God. I can't PROVE that, it's beyond my ability to do so at this time. But it's okay because I don't have to prove what I know. I make a real connection to something greater than self everyday, and it does not matter to me if you believe that or accept it as such. I am aware of it and know it's real, and that's all that really matters to me personally.

Those who believe in a god are wrong about the stupid kind of god there might be, who judges people... Although it is possible that that is true, it goes against all common sense, not to mention science as we know it today. And I see no proof of such a god.

Well but the thing is, God doesn't HAVE to conform to what some people have perceived through their religion. I'm not big on religion, I believe religion is merely man's way of trying to comprehend a spiritual energy he can't quite understand. I don't believe it goes against common sense to consider that if man has been spiritually connecting with something for all his existence, and this attribute is consistently present in 90% or more of the species, there is probably something to that.

Science, again, does not and has not disproved God. As of now, science can't evaluate spiritual existence. So why would you rely on science to make this determination? That seems to defy common sense. Perhaps you see no "proof" of God because you're looking for physical proof of something that isn't physical?

Now, let's examine your devout faith in science and physics... do you believe it's possible for matter to disappear from existence, reappear somewhere else, or exist in two places at the same time? While this may sound pretty fucking incredible and impossible to believe, it happens all the time with electrons. These electrons are found in every single bit of matter in the universe. The thing that makes physics so fascinating is it can explain things that seem impossible. This goes back to Isaac Newton pondering gravity, and why the moon didn't come crashing down to earth, if gravity is present. Physics explains what keeps the moon suspended in the sky when "common sense" might suggest it must be controlled by some 'supernatural' force. But the thing is... what explains WHY physics works?

Science can't evaluate spiritual whatever because there's nothing to evaluate. Science can't evaluate my invisible friend Jack either. I bet you know why.

 

[sealybobo]

I do have faith there isn't Zeus.

Boss: 2.) I have not said that fauna/flora are devoid of spirit. I accepted your argument that they could have spiritual connection we're not aware of. My rationale is to not dismiss possibility.

My rationale is to not dismiss possibility.


whatevere is your point - are you saying you will perish with your physiology - or, you alone are what will survive in the Everlasting -

God did not create the Universe, the Universe is a matter of the Everlasting and from which arose life, guided presently by the "Almighty" - and subordinated by Zeus.

you live by yourself Boss, without love ?

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I am more than my physiology. That part of me which is not physical will exist beyond my physical life because it's not bound by physical rules of entropy and time. I believe spiritual nature created physical nature because physical nature could not create itself. This spiritual nature is what I define as "God." It has no humanistic attributes, it doesn't "judge" people on the basis of ancient religious dogma, and it's very much an omnipresent and omnipotent force residing within our universe and beyond. You seem to believe the same thing as I, you just call your thing "Almighty" or "Everlasting." I'm completely cool with that.

Were dinosaurs more than their physiology? Are apes, dogs, cats, birds, reptiles more than their physiology? Why not? Just because you're smarter? Didn't whites use to say the very same thing about blacks/slaves? See why your ancestors were wrong then and you are wrong now?

What proof do you have? You've provided none of this. I mean you can prove your emotion is not physicail but that doesn't mean shit. I just watched a show last night that said the mule dear fear and show love and bond. So the mule deer goes to heaven too?

Science says YOU have no proof and that this is nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

[sealybobo]

Those who believe in a god are wrong about the stupid kind of god there might be, who judges people... Although it is possible that that is true, it goes against all common sense, not to mention science as we know it today. And I see no proof of such a god.

Well but the thing is, God doesn't HAVE to conform to what some people have perceived through their religion. I'm not big on religion, I believe religion is merely man's way of trying to comprehend a spiritual energy he can't quite understand. I don't believe it goes against common sense to consider that if man has been spiritually connecting with something for all his existence, and this attribute is consistently present in 90% or more of the species, there is probably something to that.

Science, again, does not and has not disproved God. As of now, science can't evaluate spiritual existence. So why would you rely on science to make this determination? That seems to defy common sense. Perhaps you see no "proof" of God because you're looking for physical proof of something that isn't physical?

Now, let's examine your devout faith in science and physics... do you believe it's possible for matter to disappear from existence, reappear somewhere else, or exist in two places at the same time? While this may sound pretty fucking incredible and impossible to believe, it happens all the time with electrons. These electrons are found in every single bit of matter in the universe. The thing that makes physics so fascinating is it can explain things that seem impossible. This goes back to Isaac Newton pondering gravity, and why the moon didn't come crashing down to earth, if gravity is present. Physics explains what keeps the moon suspended in the sky when "common sense" might suggest it must be controlled by some 'supernatural' force. But the thing is... what explains WHY physics works?

Science can't evaluate spiritual whatever because there's nothing to evaluate. Science can't evaluate my invisible friend Jack either. I bet you know why.

My friend said science has measured/evaluted spirituality. He said they even weighed it. They put someone dying on a scale and as soon as they died they lost weight and that is his proof there is a soul. It left and the person lost weight.

I'm sure science can explain that. That is if it's even true. Could get release of methane gasses?