Zone1 Why do you need gods?

[BreezeWood]

That's nice.

to ...

religious sociopaths that dream for their own domination, madeup by their demented desires - rather than secular constitutions and self determination ... bing.

 

[Mashmont]

to ...

View attachment 686976

religious sociopaths that dream for their own domination, madeup by their demented desires - rather than secular constitutions and self determination ... bing.

The only problem with that is it's the atheist left that seeks domination. Look at the five atheist governments in the world. All totalitarian dark hell holes. All of them shoot people if they try to leavem whereas Christianity is purely voluntary and self-determining.

Only two types of people would prefer Marxism to Christianity:

1) The leaders pushing Marxism who hope to profit handsomely from it through domination.
2) The weak gullible dimwits who believe the propaganda pushed by the Marxist leaders.

 

[BreezeWood]

True, we do not have God's glory or His perfection.

But the reason I wanted to know more precisely what the poster meant by 'flawed' was to determine whether he was speaking of something the size of a snowflake or splinter, or whether the intent was humanity is horribly damaged goods.

there is not such a state as perfection, what the metaphysical requires is purity ... as the requirement for a spirit to acquire admission to the everlasting.

and is the clear flaw to the desert religions, their errant documents - as christianity and their subjugation to sinning.

 

[BreezeWood]

The only problem with that is it's the atheist left that seeks domination. Look at the five atheist governments in the world. All totalitarian dark hell holes. All of them shoot people if they try to leave.

Whereas Christianity is purely voluntary and self-determining.

have you ever considered recorded history as a source for your information -

all three desert religions, their congregations have been terrorist organizations since their beginnings - your comparison is not relative to religion but the false ideology of a few from a limited time period for specific reasons.

 

[james bond]

So now you suddenly remember Christian soteriology?

We are all sinners. You don't get it, do you?

It's why Jesus died on the cross for us.

Why do you call yourself carminative lol?

 

[ding]

In a sense that's partially true in that a God who commands genocide is not a robust theological concept. But worship him many Christians do. I wish I could understand that.

Can you tell me why you worship such a god?

I don't rely on the bible for my belief in a creator. That can be known through the light of human reason and studying what was created.

And I can recognize embellishment when I see it too.

 

[ding]

1Sam 15:3 is a good example.

But the book of Joshua is filled with many other cases where God turned over entire cities to His Chosen People to be put to the sword and killed.

May I ask if you've actually read the Bible?

Sure. Separating embellishment was easy since it was never the message being conveyed by the author.

 

[Meriweather]

If humans are not flawed then surely they would be able to achieve salvation without God's grace. Correct?

Grace only has power because we DO NOT DESERVE IT.

Is it so certain we do not deserve grace? Grace is there for us in the same way water and air are there for us. In many ways we have to be very determined to reject grace.

We have a home. We are family. No one is trying to keep us out.

 

[presonorek]

Why do people have a need to believe in gods?

It is inevitable that you will encounter “gods”. I define these as powerful people that always get their way. Without a belief in gods or a god the world seems like a chaotic, unbearable, unnavigable place. Believing in a god that has everything in order makes you feel much more comfortable with the struggles of human interactions. As an added benefit the real gods (humans with unchallenged power) gain your fear, loyalty, and obedience or at least one of those three. This gives these real gods the incentive to convince you that God exists. Your newly wired brain does the rest. God is a philosophical concept that is very appealing and almost necessary to live a comfortable life that makes any sense.

Unfortunately, I don’t think anybody understood a darn thing I said.

 

[presonorek]

Christianity is a mental disease.

But also a cure and thus the cycle torments you for life.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm also quite interested in this Pharasaic approach of parsing individual words to the point of absurdity. Fallen is flawed. Sorry, it just is. We "fell" because we were flawed and able to be tempted. God cannot be tempted so why would WE fail if we were not flawed.

If it is important to you to play word games with the Bible and redefine plain language to the point that the BIble can no longer read by the regular person then I'm afraid you have a standard issue human religion on your hands.

Secret knowledge by a god who wishes to hide behind subtleties of language. A trickster god who plays with eternal damnation.

I reject that theology as it makes no sense. Even if I were a believer anymore I would reject that kind of God.

If God wishes only to surround himself with Hebrew scholars and ancient society anthropologists then why must he create so many of us to be consigned to the flames of hell?

The reason words are important to me is because I am interested in the intent of the human being who wrote the original account. I thought you and I agreed God did not write the account, men did. This being the case, I want to be very sure I know what that man meant to say.

None of those men spoke English. None of them lived in modern Western culture. That makes a difference.

 

[ding]

to ...

View attachment 686976

religious sociopaths that dream for their own domination, madeup by their demented desires - rather than secular constitutions and self determination ... bing.

That's nice.

 

[ding]

Christianity is a mental disease.

“We must judge the tree by its fruit. The best fruits of the religious experience are the best things history has to offer. The highest flights of charity, devotion, trust, patience, and bravery to which the wings of human nature have spread themselves, have all been flown for religious ideals.”
― William James, The Varieties of Religious Experience

 

[BreezeWood]

“We must judge the tree by its fruit. The best fruits of the religious experience are the best things history has to offer. The highest flights of charity, devotion, trust, patience, and bravery to which the wings of human nature have spread themselves, have all been flown for religious ideals.”
― William James, The Varieties of Religious Experience

so nice, and the quote includes -

the desert religions ....

 

[Blues Man]

Buddhism is based on the impersonal aspect of God or the divine aspect of nature though they may not realize it themselves.


Yes, THEIR word. The proof is in their word. Atheists always deny God just as China was denied to exist until they finally found the Far East by boat and land. That's the way it always works. I grew up a scientist not believing in God too until one day, he advented to reveal himself to me, so now I know he is real.

No it isn't.

Buddhism is the teaching of a mortal man who was trying to alleviate the suffering he witnessed.

And no one's word is proof of anything.

And you still don't understand that I neither believe nor disbelieve in gods.

I acknowledge the possibility that there very well may be beings that we would call gods. I just don't think the god portrayed in the bible is one of them and I think the idea of a personal Jesus is ludicrous.

 

[Blues Man]

If you hold a belief of (as you state) "It's our nature to do what we do it has nothing to do with gods" why not expound what it's our nature to do without even mentioning God? Shrug.

I believe I have done that and there is plenty of behavioral science to explain it.

 

[Meriweather]

I believe I have done that and there is plenty of behavioral science to explain it.

You missed my point.

If you hold a belief of (as you state) "It's our nature to do what we do it has nothing to do with gods" why not expound what it's our nature to do without even mentioning God? Shrug.

And you still don't understand that I neither believe nor disbelieve in gods.

I acknowledge the possibility that there very well may be beings that we would call gods. I just don't think the god portrayed in the bible is one of them and I think the idea of a personal Jesus is ludicrous.

"I just don't think" is synonymous with "I don't believe"...

In fact, don't you mention God all the time and state why you don't "don't think" (synonymous believe)?

Without an in depth understanding of the Bible, its languages, cultures, histories, and people, it is quite simple to develop conclusions about God the original authors never had and never presented.

Then there is your insistence about issues like the three Abrahamic faiths worship three Gods when we all state we do not. You do not listen, being stuck in your own conclusions about the faiths/beliefs of others.

This is why I suggest you speak of your own path and tell us about that. You have already been clear that you error in your conclusions about the beliefs of others.

 

[sealybobo]

It's not a coincidence the universe popped into existence being hardwired to produce intelligence.

The data overwhelmingly shows that man is a spiritual being. It is for good reason that David Foster Wallace said that we all worship something and the only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship. We are literally hardwired for it. Throughout history every society has overwhelmingly held the belief that man is more than just matter and that there is a higher power than man. When we look at the data today we see that more and more people are rejecting organized religion but have not abandoned their belief that they are more than just matter or that there is a force which connects or binds us all. From the atheist's vantage point these beliefs exist because of evolutionary forces. But the reality is that even that argument confirms that spirituality offers a functional advantage over materialism. According to natural selection there are two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. So even natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago. As mankind has gained more and more knowledge of his natural surroundings his desire for spirituality has not diminished. In fact, the more materialistic we became the less satisfied we became.

A Christian is being chased by a pack of lions. Christian prays to God that he will turn the lions into Christians. God answered his prayer. He looks back and he sees the lions praying so he goes to join them but just as he gets close he hears the prayer ending "We thank thee Lord for meat and drink, In Jesus' name we pray. amen"

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

The reason words are important to me is because I am interested in the intent of the human being who wrote the original account. I thought you and I agreed God did not write the account, men did. This being the case, I want to be very sure I know what that man meant to say.

None of those men spoke English. None of them lived in modern Western culture. That makes a difference.

I find it theologically problematic for an omniscient, ominipotent God to communicate the most important truths to mankind through the words of an ancient and unfamiliar society.

If God wished to HIDE his truth any better he would have had to work only slightly harder.

That is NOT how an all loving, all merciful God who loves all and wants all to come to know him would act.

God is presumably powerful enough to NOT hide his truths in some unfamiliar language and social structure, hidden behind the words of another flawed human.

Do you see my point here? Yes, it is good to appreciate that the Bible is written by a foreign group, both linguistically, socially and temporally. But what does that say about the nature of God?

Kinda sounds like He's hiding. Which doesn't make sense theologically.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Is it so certain we do not deserve grace?

That is the core central concept of Christian Salvation. I don't know what faith you are, but in standard issue Christian soteriology grace exists precisely because all are fallen and undeserving of salvation.

Perhaps in some sects of Christianity "works" are more valuable, but within the Protestant tradition we have justification by faith.

Grace is there for us in the same way water and air are there for us. In many ways we have to be very determined to reject grace.

We have a home. We are family. No one is trying to keep us out.

Not all feel the same presence that you do. Just an FYI.