Why does the left believe a corporate tax break "steals" money from the taxpayers?

[g5000]

To repeat myself:

The MID results in higher tax rates. But it does even more damage than that. It actually causes home prices to increase.

Well duh - ANY write-off is offset with general rate increase, but as a mortgage payer it does make owning a house more affordable for me.

More affordable real estate increases demand ok, but only by a small fraction of the benefit to me from MIT.

Your house would be 13 percent cheaper.

Source? Methodology?

I've post this TWICE in this topic, including within the last ten minutes!

In big bold red letters!

 

[g5000]

See posts 328 and 329.

The homebuilder lobby is sucking on the government tit, at your expense.

I dare anyone claiming to be a conservative to defend this.

 

[AntonToo]

It looks good to you because you are innumurate and ignorant. You are paying a higher tax rate because of that MID. So it gets cancelled out.

And you are paying more for your house.

You've been had, rube. Bankers and homebuilders and realtors and brokers are literally making out like bandits.

At your expense.

No dummy, your thought is missing QUANTITATIVE consideration.

Yes my general rate is higher and my house is perhaps more expensive, but not by as much as MIT benefit.

Volumes MATTER and are critical to taking sound positions and making true assertions.

Hey dumbshit. Your MID has to be made up for by higher tax rates. If it doesn't balance out, then the government has to borrow.

And that is exactly what is happening. The $1.4 trillion a year we spend on tax expenditures is why we have a $19 trillion debt.

Same thought problem:

The BASE for those taxes is MUCH MUCH MUCH WIDER than MID beneficiaries, therefore MID beneficiaries still benefit.

Again, same applies to real estate price appreciation.

Your analysis skills are total crap - sorry to inform.

 

[g5000]

You are paying 13 percent more for your house than you should have. And you are paying interest on that extra amount.

Who profits from you borrowing more money?

Banks.

Who profits from you paying more for your house?

Homebuilders and realtors.

I dare anyone claiming to be a conservative or libertarian to defend this.

 

[g5000]

It looks good to you because you are innumurate and ignorant. You are paying a higher tax rate because of that MID. So it gets cancelled out.

And you are paying more for your house.

You've been had, rube. Bankers and homebuilders and realtors and brokers are literally making out like bandits.

At your expense.

No dummy, your thought is missing QUANTITATIVE consideration.

Yes my general rate is higher and my house is perhaps more expensive, but not by as much as MIT benefit.

Volumes MATTER and are critical to taking sound positions and making true assertions.

Hey dumbshit. Your MID has to be made up for by higher tax rates. If it doesn't balance out, then the government has to borrow.

And that is exactly what is happening. The $1.4 trillion a year we spend on tax expenditures is why we have a $19 trillion debt.

Same thought problem:

The BASE for those taxes is MUCH MUCH MUCH WIDER than MID beneficiaries, therefore MID beneficiaries still benefit.

BINGO!

You just admitted that deduction comes out of the pockets of EVERY TAXPAYER.

It is theft.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

[frigidweirdo]

How many times have you heard "Corporate tax breaks are being subsidized by the tax-paying public" or "The tax payers are having to foot the bill for a private company"?

Those are ignorant statements. A tax break given to a corporation isn't existing money the government has already collected from taxpayers, it's some of the money those corporations have earned on their own. Money which they don't have to pay to the government. They earned it, and they own it.

That would be equivalent to saying that the general public has some right to a corporation's earnings which anyone can tell you, is socialism.

No, they didn't earn it, they bribed their way to it. It makes them uber competitive and puts other companies out of business, so other companies can get stuff for free. They pay taxes because they use govt services, and then they demand not to pay for those services.

 

[g5000]

It sickens me to see people who think they are conservatives or libertarians defending their theft of other taxpayers.

Eliminating tax expenditures is a core principle of conservatism. These dipshits are so far off the conservative reservation it isn't even funny.

 

[Brain357]

You are paying 13 percent more for your house than you should have. And you are paying interest on that extra amount.

Who profits from you borrowing more money?

Banks.

Who profits from you paying more for your house?

Homebuilders and realtors.

I dare anyone claiming to be a conservative or libertarian to defend this.

And probably paying more in property taxes due to increased home value.

The rich love these.

 

[g5000]

You are paying 13 percent more for your house than you should have. And you are paying interest on that extra amount.

Who profits from you borrowing more money?

Banks.

Who profits from you paying more for your house?

Homebuilders and realtors.

I dare anyone claiming to be a conservative or libertarian to defend this.

And probably paying more in property taxes due to increased home value.

The rich love these.

Indeed.

The MID is highly regressive.

 

[g5000]

antonoo, perhaps now you will understand this analogy I posted on the forum a long time ago to explain how tax expenditures are theft:

If a feudal lord had 20 serfs under him, and his annual expenditures came to $1000, he would have to tax each serf $50.

If he then took $200 of this money and returned it to 5 of his favorite serfs, he would have $800 left. Not enough to cover his $1000 in expenses. And so he needs to tax everyone an additional $10 to balance his books. In short, he would have to raise the tax rates by 20 percent on everyone to come out even and to give the $200 gift to his five favorites.

This is the system we have today.

Those 5 inner circle serfs tell themselves, "Woo hoo! I get to keep more of my money! Yay!", completely oblivious to the fact everyone is paying higher tax rates because of them, including themselves.

Instead of paying $50 in taxes, everyone is paying $60 in taxes.

Bad for the economy. And wealth begins to concentrate up to the favored five.

 

[Brain357]

You are paying 13 percent more for your house than you should have. And you are paying interest on that extra amount.

Who profits from you borrowing more money?

Banks.

Who profits from you paying more for your house?

Homebuilders and realtors.

I dare anyone claiming to be a conservative or libertarian to defend this.

And probably paying more in property taxes due to increased home value.

The rich love these.

Indeed.

The MID is highly regressive.

And you won't get the time/money back you waste doing taxes. I would guess many $ to get taxes done. Make taxes simpler and can easily be done on your own.

 

[g5000]

I have written many, many times about the ways wealth is concentrated. There is natural concentration of wealth, and there is unnatural concentration of wealth.

Natural concentration of wealth occurs when someone invents a better mousetrap. I am 100 percent in favor of this kind of wealth creation.

Unnatural concentration of wealth occurs legislatively. Like with tax expenditures. This is government choosing winners and losers. I am 100 percent opposed to this kind of wealth theft.

 

[g5000]

You are paying 13 percent more for your house than you should have. And you are paying interest on that extra amount.

Who profits from you borrowing more money?

Banks.

Who profits from you paying more for your house?

Homebuilders and realtors.

I dare anyone claiming to be a conservative or libertarian to defend this.

And probably paying more in property taxes due to increased home value.

The rich love these.

Indeed.

The MID is highly regressive.

And you won't get the time/money back you waste doing taxes. I would guess many $ to get taxes done. Make taxes simpler and can easily be done on your own.

The last thing H&R block wants is a one page tax return. The accountancy lobby spends a lot of money each year lobbying to keep the tax code as complicated as possible.

The realtor lobby spends $100 million a year on campaign contributions and lobbying.

There's a reason they spend that much. They makes tens of billions in returns on their investment each year.

Eliminate tax expenditures, and you have instant campaign finance reform. You take away the ability for a politician to put a gift in the tax code, you take away the incentive to pay him for doing so.

That same is true for regulations. A lot of regulations are there to make it harder for competition to break into the market.

 

[Flash]

First of all all corporate taxes are paid for by the people that buy the goods and services of the corporations. Any increase in taxation only increases the cost of the good and services.

If corps made no profit that would be true, but IT ISN'T.

You are confused Moon Bat.

If you make $10 and the filthy ass government takes $5 then you have really only made $5, haven't you? You price your goods and services to include the loss of that $5 the filthy government steals from you, don't you?

If they didn't make any profit then there would be no incentive for them to be in business, would it? No jobs, no tax revenues and no goods or services.

Profits are a good thing Moon Bat. They should never be taxed.

Taxes are a cost of doing business and that expense is passed along to the consumers.

Corporations don't really pay taxes. They just pass along the expense to the people that buy the goods and services. In other words when you stupid Moon Bats advocate raising corporate taxes then you are fucking yourself.

By the way, corporations have the liability of the filthy Federal corporate tax on profits but they are also paying a ton of other state and local taxes that are not dependent upon profits.

One more time, for you willfully blind monkeys:No tax reform without border adjustment tax, Rep. Nunes says

"If people wanted to drop the corporate rate from 35 to say 33, 32, maybe 30, we could probably do it. But if you go back to several years that we looked at doing just that, the goal was to get to 25 percent, and by the time every lobbyist, every special interest group in town, representing every major corporation in this country, the tax rate was automatically all the way back above 30 by the time you put everybody's special loophole in."

Why even have the stupid tax to begin with?

This bloated out of control federal government spends almost $4 trillion a year.

About a trillion comes from the stupid oppressive income tax, almost another trillion from the corporate income tax, almost a trillion from borrowed money and the rest from other sources.

Why not cut the filthy Federal government down to the minimum necessary government functions like defense, courts, intelligence, state department etc?

Do away with all welfare, entitlements, subsidies and bailouts. Only use the American military for the actual defense of the US and not for foreign interventionism?

The we could stop borrowing money, stop taxing income and stop adding on the cost of corportate goods and serv ices by taxing the corporations. Isn't that the much better plan?

The problem is not that we allow "loopholes" and deductions in our tax policy. Changing that only changes the mix of winners and losers. The problem is that we tax too much.

By the way some of those loopholes you Moon Bats hate so much help to keep the cost of goods and services down. For instance, allowing the exploration of oil to be a legitimate business expense keeps the price of gas at about $2.00 a gallon at the pump. If the oil corporations had to pay taxes on those expenses that would add a considerable amount to the price of gas at the pump that you would wind up paying. that is not good is it?

Which is better, you having cheaper gas to drive to work or some filthy ass government bureaucrat having more money to waste?

The combined Fed, State and Local taxes in this country is almost 40% of the GDP and that is killing our economy. That is one of the main reasons that poverty is increasing, family income is declining and we have dismal economic growth. The cost of government is usually the largest household expense of any family in America, regardless of income and that is despicable.

We should be thinking about having less government instead of taxing more.

You Moon Bats also need to stop being so damn greedy. You get almost a trillion a year out of the corporation tax. When is enough going to be enough for you greedy little bastards? You think you need the government to get more money to pay some more of your bills?

 

[g5000]

Why not cut the filthy Federal government down to the minimum necessary government functions like defense, courts, intelligence, state department etc?

Even if you cut government down to the bare bones, that does not mitigate the theft that is tax expenditures.

Let me explain.

You and an associate go out to lunch and you both order identical steak dinners.

The tab comes to $100. You two owe $50 each.

But the restaurant has a behavioral control policy that says if you bought a red tie with the restaurant logo on it, you get to deduct $20 from your share of the check.

You bought such a tie yesterday and are wearing it.

The tab is still $100, so while you are hootin and hollerin about "getting to keep more of my money", your associate is having to shell out $70 instead of $50.

Even though you had identical steaks, he is paying $70 while you are paying $30.

And he thinks the deduction scheme is a ripoff, and that you are an idiot.


Now to your point about cutting government spending:

After complaints about the cost of a steak, the restaurant fires half its staff, buys cheaper cuts of meat, and makes other cost cutting savings.

You and an associate go out to lunch and you both order identical steak dinners.

The tab comes to $50. You two owe $25 each.

But the restaurant has a behavioral control policy that says if you bought a red tie with the restaurant logo on it, you get to deduct $20 from your share of the check.

You bought such a tie yesterday and are wearing it.

The tab is still $50, so while you are hootin and hollerin about "getting to keep more of my money", your associate is having to shell out $45 instead of $25.

Even though you had identical steaks, he is paying $45 while you are paying $5.

And he thinks the deduction scheme is a ripoff, and that you are an idiot.


That is how government works. The loss of revenue incurred by every deduction is shifted to every taxpayer in the form of higher tax rates.

Actually, only part of that loss of revenue is made up for by higher tax rates. A big percentage is made up for by borrowing heavily from China and other countries.

 

[g5000]

We can, and should, cut government spending. That would allow us to lower tax rates. But as long as we have tax expenditures, we will never be able to lower them to the lowest and fairest possible point.

 

[g5000]

You Moon Bats also need to stop being so damn greedy. You get almost a trillion a year out of the corporation tax.

The revenues from corporations are not extracted evenly. It is an extremely unfair system which picks winners and losers.

 

[AntonToo]

It looks good to you because you are innumurate and ignorant. You are paying a higher tax rate because of that MID. So it gets cancelled out.

And you are paying more for your house.

You've been had, rube. Bankers and homebuilders and realtors and brokers are literally making out like bandits.

At your expense.

No dummy, your thought is missing QUANTITATIVE consideration.

Yes my general rate is higher and my house is perhaps more expensive, but not by as much as MIT benefit.

Volumes MATTER and are critical to taking sound positions and making true assertions.

Hey dumbshit. Your MID has to be made up for by higher tax rates. If it doesn't balance out, then the government has to borrow.

And that is exactly what is happening. The $1.4 trillion a year we spend on tax expenditures is why we have a $19 trillion debt.

Same thought problem:

The BASE for those taxes is MUCH MUCH MUCH WIDER than MID beneficiaries, therefore MID beneficiaries still benefit.

BINGO!

You just admitted that deduction comes out of the pockets of EVERY TAXPAYER.

It is theft.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

1. When you equate taxation with theft you sound like a total moonbat.

2. I never denied that, on the contrary, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS I SAID TO YOU was that ANY deduction increases general tax rates. Your argument wasn't that MIT merely increases taxes on everyone, but that MIT is not beneficial to those that do get it - which is spurious at best.

3. Mortgage deduction is still very popular and needs to be pointed out when someone starts to talk about how "special interests are controlling the tax code"

 

[g5000]

It looks good to you because you are innumurate and ignorant. You are paying a higher tax rate because of that MID. So it gets cancelled out.

And you are paying more for your house.

You've been had, rube. Bankers and homebuilders and realtors and brokers are literally making out like bandits.

At your expense.

No dummy, your thought is missing QUANTITATIVE consideration.

Yes my general rate is higher and my house is perhaps more expensive, but not by as much as MIT benefit.

Volumes MATTER and are critical to taking sound positions and making true assertions.

Hey dumbshit. Your MID has to be made up for by higher tax rates. If it doesn't balance out, then the government has to borrow.

And that is exactly what is happening. The $1.4 trillion a year we spend on tax expenditures is why we have a $19 trillion debt.

Same thought problem:

The BASE for those taxes is MUCH MUCH MUCH WIDER than MID beneficiaries, therefore MID beneficiaries still benefit.

BINGO!

You just admitted that deduction comes out of the pockets of EVERY TAXPAYER.

It is theft.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

1. When you equate taxation with theft you sound like a total moonbat.

I'm not calling taxation theft. There are pseudocons and alleged libertarians who do that.

I am equating tax EXPENDITURES with theft. That is the topic. Look at the title.

And by your own posts, you supported the fact they are theft.

 

[g5000]

3. Mortgage deduction is still very popular and needs to be pointed out when someone starts to talk about how "special interests are controlling the tax code"

Yes, the theft that is the MID is very popular. And people scream like welfare queens whenever I talk about eliminating it.

I've been saying this. Over and over.

As for special interests, it is the banking and realty lobbies which profit the most. By far. Many, many billions a year.

What you get in the form of a deduction is a bribe to get you to go along with this massive theft. And your Congressmen and Senators get campaign contributions.