Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

[Rigby5]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

Electric cars aren't eco-friendly contrary to they'd have you believe.

still they will bring oil prices back to normality, which means death of moscow empire, KSA (wahhabism) etc

Even now electric cars are clearner than the ICE. It may take a couple of years during the EVs life cycle to catch up but in the end they are better for the environment. And that of course will change as our power grid is filled with even more diverse green energy.

Benefits of electric cars on the environment

All you need to know about electric cars, also known as EVs, and their effect on our environment. Find out if electric or petrol cars are a better choice for our planet.

www.edfenergy.com

No electric cars are not cleaner.
The main source of electricity is still coal, and will become even more of the main source in 50 years, when the gas and oil runs out.
The power grid is not green energy.

Coal burning power plants are cleaner than individual ICEs which are extremely inefficient. Didn't you know this? Most of the power they create never sees the pavement.

Here is an article about electric buses and even though they are not charged on clean power grids they are cleaner than their gas and diesel counterparts.

Study: Electric Buses Already Emit Less Carbon Than Diesel Buses, in Any State

And their climate impact will decrease as the grid gets cleaner.

www.greentechmedia.com

Wrong.
We have only temporarily shifted to natural gas to produce electricity.
When that runs out in 50 years, then we will have to go back to coal, because we have 10 times more coal than natural gas.
And then the emissions of electricity doubles again, becoming greater than diesel.
And it is easy for diesel to beat EV if they use bio fuel because bio fuel absorbs more carbon than produced.
Nothing can ever beat bio fuel.
That is impossible.

When that runs out when? It's like you're saying in a half century nothing will change with our energy make up. When has that ever happened in our country's history?

I'm cool with bio fuels too when/if they come on board.

Half a century is not at all far away and would have to be started now.
There is no way to so it with solar or wind, so bio fuel is the only way, and we are going to have to find sources of water now, if we want bio fuel, because without fossil fuel for fertilizer, human starvation could be come a problem.
So coal is the only easy answer, so far.
Bio fuel is possible, but the EV thing is just detracting from real alternatives like bio fuel.
EVs solve nothing.
Its just a shell game where you don't see the pollution because you move it out of state.
EVs are incredibly inefficient.
Total efficiency of EVs is about 7%, compared to 45% for ICEs.

 

[Rigby5]

You mean like we STILL DO with oil companies.

I would add many of those oil companies don't pay a penny in federal income taxes.

You should absolutely LOVE oil companies, since they are providing the fuel to generate electricity for EVs. Evs aren't going anywhere without the oil companies.

Fossil fuels don't generate electricity in my state.

We use water, wind, solar and a small nuclear facility.

We started shutting down our last coal fired plant in 2005. I'm sure it's closed by now.

We started building one of the nation's largest wind farms in the 90s.

The result?

We generate more electricity than we use so we sell the excess to other states for a profit. If you live in one of those states, you're welcome for the cheap and clean energy.

We also have the second lowest electric rates in the country.

So my state doesn't need or want fossil fuels to generate electricity.

Untrue anywhere in the US.
Coal is the #1 electricity producer in ALL US states and most of the world.
Many states just do not know how their electricity is produced because it is part of an out of state grid.
It is never going to be possible to use only renewable resources any place in the world except on ocean shores, near high thermal sources, or where one does not mind killing fish.

Nope...
View attachment 498825

Coal is number two and will be three in by next year..

Wrong.
Your graph shows coal is #1 in most states, and oil and gas is going away completely in about 50 years or so, which means it is not a viable source of electricity.
We have over 10 times more coal than oil or gas.

And the graph cheats.
For example, it shows CA as no coal. But in reality, CA gets most of its electricity from coal plants in AZ, NM, UT, NV, etc.

California only imports about 30% of it's energy. California also uses the least amount of energy per capita. They're on the right track.

That is not at all true.
CA just hides is electrical use by out of state purchases.
There are times when CA imports 80% of its electricity.
And CA is the single most inefficient electrical user in the country, due to its high use of AC and poor use of insulation.
CA is known for long distance commutes, car culture, lack of mass transit, and terrible construction methods.
There is nothing rem

otely clean or efficient about CA.

I'm looking at annual numbers. 29%.

No you are not.
They just do not record how the grid is constantly rebalanced.
If you add up the use and compare it to production, CA is not even producing near to have what they use.
Even worse now with drought.

 

[HappyJoy]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

Electric cars aren't eco-friendly contrary to they'd have you believe.

still they will bring oil prices back to normality, which means death of moscow empire, KSA (wahhabism) etc

Even now electric cars are clearner than the ICE. It may take a couple of years during the EVs life cycle to catch up but in the end they are better for the environment. And that of course will change as our power grid is filled with even more diverse green energy.

Benefits of electric cars on the environment

All you need to know about electric cars, also known as EVs, and their effect on our environment. Find out if electric or petrol cars are a better choice for our planet.

www.edfenergy.com

No electric cars are not cleaner.
The main source of electricity is still coal, and will become even more of the main source in 50 years, when the gas and oil runs out.
The power grid is not green energy.

Coal burning power plants are cleaner than individual ICEs which are extremely inefficient. Didn't you know this? Most of the power they create never sees the pavement.

Here is an article about electric buses and even though they are not charged on clean power grids they are cleaner than their gas and diesel counterparts.

Study: Electric Buses Already Emit Less Carbon Than Diesel Buses, in Any State

And their climate impact will decrease as the grid gets cleaner.

www.greentechmedia.com

Wrong.
We have only temporarily shifted to natural gas to produce electricity.
When that runs out in 50 years, then we will have to go back to coal, because we have 10 times more coal than natural gas.
And then the emissions of electricity doubles again, becoming greater than diesel.
And it is easy for diesel to beat EV if they use bio fuel because bio fuel absorbs more carbon than produced.
Nothing can ever beat bio fuel.
That is impossible.

When that runs out when? It's like you're saying in a half century nothing will change with our energy make up. When has that ever happened in our country's history?

I'm cool with bio fuels too when/if they come on board.

Half a century is not at all far away and would have to be started now.
There is no way to so it with solar or wind, so bio fuel is the only way, and we are going to have to find sources of water now, if we want bio fuel, because without fossil fuel for fertilizer, human starvation could be come a problem.
So coal is the only easy answer, so far.
Bio fuel is possible, but the EV thing is just detracting from real alternatives like bio fuel.
EVs solve nothing.
Its just a shell game where you don't see the pollution because you move it out of state.
EVs are incredibly inefficient.
Total efficiency of EVs is about 7%, compared to 45% for ICEs.

Do everyone a favor, don't accept money for fortune telling, you're not good at it.

 

[HappyJoy]

You mean like we STILL DO with oil companies.

I would add many of those oil companies don't pay a penny in federal income taxes.

You should absolutely LOVE oil companies, since they are providing the fuel to generate electricity for EVs. Evs aren't going anywhere without the oil companies.

Fossil fuels don't generate electricity in my state.

We use water, wind, solar and a small nuclear facility.

We started shutting down our last coal fired plant in 2005. I'm sure it's closed by now.

We started building one of the nation's largest wind farms in the 90s.

The result?

We generate more electricity than we use so we sell the excess to other states for a profit. If you live in one of those states, you're welcome for the cheap and clean energy.

We also have the second lowest electric rates in the country.

So my state doesn't need or want fossil fuels to generate electricity.

Untrue anywhere in the US.
Coal is the #1 electricity producer in ALL US states and most of the world.
Many states just do not know how their electricity is produced because it is part of an out of state grid.
It is never going to be possible to use only renewable resources any place in the world except on ocean shores, near high thermal sources, or where one does not mind killing fish.

Nope...
View attachment 498825

Coal is number two and will be three in by next year..

Wrong.
Your graph shows coal is #1 in most states, and oil and gas is going away completely in about 50 years or so, which means it is not a viable source of electricity.
We have over 10 times more coal than oil or gas.

And the graph cheats.
For example, it shows CA as no coal. But in reality, CA gets most of its electricity from coal plants in AZ, NM, UT, NV, etc.

California only imports about 30% of it's energy. California also uses the least amount of energy per capita. They're on the right track.

That is not at all true.
CA just hides is electrical use by out of state purchases.
There are times when CA imports 80% of its electricity.
And CA is the single most inefficient electrical user in the country, due to its high use of AC and poor use of insulation.
CA is known for long distance commutes, car culture, lack of mass transit, and terrible construction methods.
There is nothing rem

otely clean or efficient about CA.

I'm looking at annual numbers. 29%.

No you are not.
They just do not record how the grid is constantly rebalanced.
If you add up the use and compare it to production, CA is not even producing near to have what they use.
Even worse now with drought.

Yeah, they import about 30%, that's means they aren't close to creating all their own energy. The energy they do make is 66% from renewables and they also use less energy per capita than any other state. They're on the right track.

 

[Rigby5]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

Electric cars aren't eco-friendly contrary to they'd have you believe.

still they will bring oil prices back to normality, which means death of moscow empire, KSA (wahhabism) etc

Even now electric cars are clearner than the ICE. It may take a couple of years during the EVs life cycle to catch up but in the end they are better for the environment. And that of course will change as our power grid is filled with even more diverse green energy.

Benefits of electric cars on the environment

All you need to know about electric cars, also known as EVs, and their effect on our environment. Find out if electric or petrol cars are a better choice for our planet.

www.edfenergy.com

No electric cars are not cleaner.
The main source of electricity is still coal, and will become even more of the main source in 50 years, when the gas and oil runs out.
The power grid is not green energy.

Coal burning power plants are cleaner than individual ICEs which are extremely inefficient. Didn't you know this? Most of the power they create never sees the pavement.

Here is an article about electric buses and even though they are not charged on clean power grids they are cleaner than their gas and diesel counterparts.

Study: Electric Buses Already Emit Less Carbon Than Diesel Buses, in Any State

And their climate impact will decrease as the grid gets cleaner.

www.greentechmedia.com

Wrong.
We have only temporarily shifted to natural gas to produce electricity.
When that runs out in 50 years, then we will have to go back to coal, because we have 10 times more coal than natural gas.
And then the emissions of electricity doubles again, becoming greater than diesel.
And it is easy for diesel to beat EV if they use bio fuel because bio fuel absorbs more carbon than produced.
Nothing can ever beat bio fuel.
That is impossible.

When that runs out when? It's like you're saying in a half century nothing will change with our energy make up. When has that ever happened in our country's history?

I'm cool with bio fuels too when/if they come on board.

Half a century is not at all far away and would have to be started now.
There is no way to so it with solar or wind, so bio fuel is the only way, and we are going to have to find sources of water now, if we want bio fuel, because without fossil fuel for fertilizer, human starvation could be come a problem.
So coal is the only easy answer, so far.
Bio fuel is possible, but the EV thing is just detracting from real alternatives like bio fuel.
EVs solve nothing.
Its just a shell game where you don't see the pollution because you move it out of state.
EVs are incredibly inefficient.
Total efficiency of EVs is about 7%, compared to 45% for ICEs.

Do everyone a favor, don't accept money for fortune telling, you're not good at it.

Nothing to do with fortune telling.
I just have a degree in physics, and have done engineering all my life.

Believe me, you are being conned by a shell game.
EVs are vastly less efficient and dirty then ICEs.
In fact, the best ICEs are the VW TDIs, which they prosecuted because they were getting 56 mpg, when they were supposed to only be betting 34 mpg.
The VW TDI were putting out less than a forth the carbon of other cars, so then claimed it was NOx they were violating.
But the reality is that unlike CO2 that can last forever, NOx breaks down naturally in hours.
NOx is just heated air.
You turn on an electric stove, you get NOx if you get the coil element hot enough.

 

[HappyJoy]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

Electric cars aren't eco-friendly contrary to they'd have you believe.

still they will bring oil prices back to normality, which means death of moscow empire, KSA (wahhabism) etc

Even now electric cars are clearner than the ICE. It may take a couple of years during the EVs life cycle to catch up but in the end they are better for the environment. And that of course will change as our power grid is filled with even more diverse green energy.

Benefits of electric cars on the environment

All you need to know about electric cars, also known as EVs, and their effect on our environment. Find out if electric or petrol cars are a better choice for our planet.

www.edfenergy.com

No electric cars are not cleaner.
The main source of electricity is still coal, and will become even more of the main source in 50 years, when the gas and oil runs out.
The power grid is not green energy.

Coal burning power plants are cleaner than individual ICEs which are extremely inefficient. Didn't you know this? Most of the power they create never sees the pavement.

Here is an article about electric buses and even though they are not charged on clean power grids they are cleaner than their gas and diesel counterparts.

Study: Electric Buses Already Emit Less Carbon Than Diesel Buses, in Any State

And their climate impact will decrease as the grid gets cleaner.

www.greentechmedia.com

Wrong.
We have only temporarily shifted to natural gas to produce electricity.
When that runs out in 50 years, then we will have to go back to coal, because we have 10 times more coal than natural gas.
And then the emissions of electricity doubles again, becoming greater than diesel.
And it is easy for diesel to beat EV if they use bio fuel because bio fuel absorbs more carbon than produced.
Nothing can ever beat bio fuel.
That is impossible.

When that runs out when? It's like you're saying in a half century nothing will change with our energy make up. When has that ever happened in our country's history?

I'm cool with bio fuels too when/if they come on board.

Half a century is not at all far away and would have to be started now.
There is no way to so it with solar or wind, so bio fuel is the only way, and we are going to have to find sources of water now, if we want bio fuel, because without fossil fuel for fertilizer, human starvation could be come a problem.
So coal is the only easy answer, so far.
Bio fuel is possible, but the EV thing is just detracting from real alternatives like bio fuel.
EVs solve nothing.
Its just a shell game where you don't see the pollution because you move it out of state.
EVs are incredibly inefficient.
Total efficiency of EVs is about 7%, compared to 45% for ICEs.

Do everyone a favor, don't accept money for fortune telling, you're not good at it.

Nothing to do with fortune telling.
I just have a degree in physics, and have done engineering all my life.

Doubtful, but I don't really care anyway.

Believe me, you are being conned by a shell game.
EVs are vastly less efficient and dirty then ICEs.
In fact, the best ICEs are the VW TDIs, which they prosecuted because they were getting 56 mpg, when they were supposed to only be betting 34 mpg.
The VW TDI were putting out less than a forth the carbon of other cars, so then claimed it was NOx they were violating.
But the reality is that unlike CO2 that can last forever, NOx breaks down naturally in hours.
NOx is just heated air.
You turn on an electric stove, you get NOx if you get the coil element hot enough.

How much power from the engine(s) of an EV reach the wheels as compared to an ICE? If you have a degree in physics this should be easy.

 

[Rigby5]

You mean like we STILL DO with oil companies.

I would add many of those oil companies don't pay a penny in federal income taxes.

You should absolutely LOVE oil companies, since they are providing the fuel to generate electricity for EVs. Evs aren't going anywhere without the oil companies.

Fossil fuels don't generate electricity in my state.

We use water, wind, solar and a small nuclear facility.

We started shutting down our last coal fired plant in 2005. I'm sure it's closed by now.

We started building one of the nation's largest wind farms in the 90s.

The result?

We generate more electricity than we use so we sell the excess to other states for a profit. If you live in one of those states, you're welcome for the cheap and clean energy.

We also have the second lowest electric rates in the country.

So my state doesn't need or want fossil fuels to generate electricity.

Untrue anywhere in the US.
Coal is the #1 electricity producer in ALL US states and most of the world.
Many states just do not know how their electricity is produced because it is part of an out of state grid.
It is never going to be possible to use only renewable resources any place in the world except on ocean shores, near high thermal sources, or where one does not mind killing fish.

Nope...
View attachment 498825

Coal is number two and will be three in by next year..

Wrong.
Your graph shows coal is #1 in most states, and oil and gas is going away completely in about 50 years or so, which means it is not a viable source of electricity.
We have over 10 times more coal than oil or gas.

And the graph cheats.
For example, it shows CA as no coal. But in reality, CA gets most of its electricity from coal plants in AZ, NM, UT, NV, etc.

California only imports about 30% of it's energy. California also uses the least amount of energy per capita. They're on the right track.

That is not at all true.
CA just hides is electrical use by out of state purchases.
There are times when CA imports 80% of its electricity.
And CA is the single most inefficient electrical user in the country, due to its high use of AC and poor use of insulation.
CA is known for long distance commutes, car culture, lack of mass transit, and terrible construction methods.
There is nothing rem

otely clean or efficient about CA.

I'm looking at annual numbers. 29%.

No you are not.
They just do not record how the grid is constantly rebalanced.
If you add up the use and compare it to production, CA is not even producing near to have what they use.
Even worse now with drought.

Yeah, they import about 30%, that's means they aren't close to creating all their own energy. The energy they do make is 66% from renewables and they also use less energy per capita than any other state. They're on the right track.

I like the geothermal and biomass conversion, but all the hydro electric should go since it kills fish and is drying up anyway.
The solar thermal kills too many birds.
Photovoltaic takes too much space.

 

[HappyJoy]

You mean like we STILL DO with oil companies.

I would add many of those oil companies don't pay a penny in federal income taxes.

You should absolutely LOVE oil companies, since they are providing the fuel to generate electricity for EVs. Evs aren't going anywhere without the oil companies.

Fossil fuels don't generate electricity in my state.

We use water, wind, solar and a small nuclear facility.

We started shutting down our last coal fired plant in 2005. I'm sure it's closed by now.

We started building one of the nation's largest wind farms in the 90s.

The result?

We generate more electricity than we use so we sell the excess to other states for a profit. If you live in one of those states, you're welcome for the cheap and clean energy.

We also have the second lowest electric rates in the country.

So my state doesn't need or want fossil fuels to generate electricity.

Untrue anywhere in the US.
Coal is the #1 electricity producer in ALL US states and most of the world.
Many states just do not know how their electricity is produced because it is part of an out of state grid.
It is never going to be possible to use only renewable resources any place in the world except on ocean shores, near high thermal sources, or where one does not mind killing fish.

Nope...
View attachment 498825

Coal is number two and will be three in by next year..

Wrong.
Your graph shows coal is #1 in most states, and oil and gas is going away completely in about 50 years or so, which means it is not a viable source of electricity.
We have over 10 times more coal than oil or gas.

And the graph cheats.
For example, it shows CA as no coal. But in reality, CA gets most of its electricity from coal plants in AZ, NM, UT, NV, etc.

California only imports about 30% of it's energy. California also uses the least amount of energy per capita. They're on the right track.

That is not at all true.
CA just hides is electrical use by out of state purchases.
There are times when CA imports 80% of its electricity.
And CA is the single most inefficient electrical user in the country, due to its high use of AC and poor use of insulation.
CA is known for long distance commutes, car culture, lack of mass transit, and terrible construction methods.
There is nothing rem

otely clean or efficient about CA.

I'm looking at annual numbers. 29%.

No you are not.
They just do not record how the grid is constantly rebalanced.
If you add up the use and compare it to production, CA is not even producing near to have what they use.
Even worse now with drought.

Yeah, they import about 30%, that's means they aren't close to creating all their own energy. The energy they do make is 66% from renewables and they also use less energy per capita than any other state. They're on the right track.

I like the geothermal and biomass conversion, but all the hydro electric should go since it kills fish and is drying up anyway.
The solar thermal kills too many birds.
Photovoltaic takes too much space.

Let me know when solar makes a bird species extinct.

Why Do Solar Farms Kill Birds? Call in the AI Bird Watcher

Solar facilities kill tens of thousands of birds every year, and no one is quite sure why. An artificial-intelligence-powered birder is on the case.

www.wired.com

In 2016, a first-of-its-kind study estimated that the hundreds of utility-scale solar farms around the US may kill nearly 140,000 birds annually. That’s less than one-tenth of one percent of the estimated number of birds killed by fossil-fuel power plants (through collisions, electrocution, and poisoning), but the researchers expected that number to nearly triple as planned solar farms come online. The link between solar facilities and bird deaths is still unclear. One leading theory suggests birds mistake the glare from solar panels for the surface of a lake and swoop in for a landing, with deadly results. “But that hypothesis is from a human perspective,” says Sporer. “Do birds even see the same way people do? We need to collect more data to form a complete picture.”

 

[westwall]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

Electric cars aren't eco-friendly contrary to they'd have you believe.

still they will bring oil prices back to normality, which means death of moscow empire, KSA (wahhabism) etc

Even now electric cars are clearner than the ICE. It may take a couple of years during the EVs life cycle to catch up but in the end they are better for the environment. And that of course will change as our power grid is filled with even more diverse green energy.

Benefits of electric cars on the environment

All you need to know about electric cars, also known as EVs, and their effect on our environment. Find out if electric or petrol cars are a better choice for our planet.

www.edfenergy.com

I wouldn't necessarily say to go out and buy and EV to save the planet, wait until you need a car and then look for used or new EVs.

EV's are only cleaner if you ignore the environmental damage engendered with the mining of the lithium, the transport of the lithium across the oceans repeatedly, the fossil fuels used to obtain the lithium and transport it. The fossil fuels expended in processing it, and, of course, the environmental horror story waiting to be told when the tens of thousands of highly toxic, worn out batteries are needing to be dealt with.

 

[HappyJoy]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

Electric cars aren't eco-friendly contrary to they'd have you believe.

still they will bring oil prices back to normality, which means death of moscow empire, KSA (wahhabism) etc

Even now electric cars are clearner than the ICE. It may take a couple of years during the EVs life cycle to catch up but in the end they are better for the environment. And that of course will change as our power grid is filled with even more diverse green energy.

Benefits of electric cars on the environment

All you need to know about electric cars, also known as EVs, and their effect on our environment. Find out if electric or petrol cars are a better choice for our planet.

www.edfenergy.com

I wouldn't necessarily say to go out and buy and EV to save the planet, wait until you need a car and then look for used or new EVs.

EV's are only cleaner if you ignore the environmental damage engendered with the mining of the lithium, the transport of the lithium across the oceans repeatedly, the fossil fuels used to obtain the lithium and transport it. The fossil fuels expended in processing it, and, of course, the environmental horror story waiting to be told when the tens of thousands of highly toxic, worn out batteries are needing to be dealt with.

Nope
During the entire lifespan of an EV to include the battery compnents they are still more environmentally friendly. They start out of the gate at a deficit however after a few years of use surpass ICEs.

 

[westwall]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

Electric cars aren't eco-friendly contrary to they'd have you believe.

still they will bring oil prices back to normality, which means death of moscow empire, KSA (wahhabism) etc

Even now electric cars are clearner than the ICE. It may take a couple of years during the EVs life cycle to catch up but in the end they are better for the environment. And that of course will change as our power grid is filled with even more diverse green energy.

Benefits of electric cars on the environment

All you need to know about electric cars, also known as EVs, and their effect on our environment. Find out if electric or petrol cars are a better choice for our planet.

www.edfenergy.com

I wouldn't necessarily say to go out and buy and EV to save the planet, wait until you need a car and then look for used or new EVs.

EV's are only cleaner if you ignore the environmental damage engendered with the mining of the lithium, the transport of the lithium across the oceans repeatedly, the fossil fuels used to obtain the lithium and transport it. The fossil fuels expended in processing it, and, of course, the environmental horror story waiting to be told when the tens of thousands of highly toxic, worn out batteries are needing to be dealt with.

Nope
During the entire lifespan of an EV to include the battery compnents they are still more environmentally friendly. They start out of the gate at a deficit however after a few years of use surpass ICEs.

Facts say otherwise. Your opinion, and those of the propagandists who feed you your BS are immaterial. Facts don't lie, and the facts show your claims to be horse poo.

 

[HappyJoy]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

Electric cars aren't eco-friendly contrary to they'd have you believe.

still they will bring oil prices back to normality, which means death of moscow empire, KSA (wahhabism) etc

Even now electric cars are clearner than the ICE. It may take a couple of years during the EVs life cycle to catch up but in the end they are better for the environment. And that of course will change as our power grid is filled with even more diverse green energy.

Benefits of electric cars on the environment

All you need to know about electric cars, also known as EVs, and their effect on our environment. Find out if electric or petrol cars are a better choice for our planet.

www.edfenergy.com

I wouldn't necessarily say to go out and buy and EV to save the planet, wait until you need a car and then look for used or new EVs.

EV's are only cleaner if you ignore the environmental damage engendered with the mining of the lithium, the transport of the lithium across the oceans repeatedly, the fossil fuels used to obtain the lithium and transport it. The fossil fuels expended in processing it, and, of course, the environmental horror story waiting to be told when the tens of thousands of highly toxic, worn out batteries are needing to be dealt with.

Nope
During the entire lifespan of an EV to include the battery compnents they are still more environmentally friendly. They start out of the gate at a deficit however after a few years of use surpass ICEs.

Facts say otherwise. Your opinion, and those of the propagandists who feed you your BS are immaterial. Facts don't lie, and the facts show your claims to be horse poo.

That was very convincing.

 

[westwall]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

Electric cars aren't eco-friendly contrary to they'd have you believe.

still they will bring oil prices back to normality, which means death of moscow empire, KSA (wahhabism) etc

Even now electric cars are clearner than the ICE. It may take a couple of years during the EVs life cycle to catch up but in the end they are better for the environment. And that of course will change as our power grid is filled with even more diverse green energy.

Benefits of electric cars on the environment

All you need to know about electric cars, also known as EVs, and their effect on our environment. Find out if electric or petrol cars are a better choice for our planet.

www.edfenergy.com

I wouldn't necessarily say to go out and buy and EV to save the planet, wait until you need a car and then look for used or new EVs.

EV's are only cleaner if you ignore the environmental damage engendered with the mining of the lithium, the transport of the lithium across the oceans repeatedly, the fossil fuels used to obtain the lithium and transport it. The fossil fuels expended in processing it, and, of course, the environmental horror story waiting to be told when the tens of thousands of highly toxic, worn out batteries are needing to be dealt with.

Nope
During the entire lifespan of an EV to include the battery compnents they are still more environmentally friendly. They start out of the gate at a deficit however after a few years of use surpass ICEs.

Facts say otherwise. Your opinion, and those of the propagandists who feed you your BS are immaterial. Facts don't lie, and the facts show your claims to be horse poo.

That was very convincing.

Just one of hundreds of reports and papers that address your lies.

Developing countries pay environmental cost of electric car batteries​

22 July 2020

Growth in electric car sales is great news for the fight against climate change, but the mining of the minerals used in their batteries poses serious risks for the environment.​

Developing countries pay environmental cost of electric car batteries

Global consumers are warming up to electric cars, whose sales are expected to jump from 3 million vehicles in 2017 to 23 million in 2030, according to the International Energy Agency. Similar growth is expected for rechargeable batteries, with the market for cathode – the positive electrode of...

unctad.org

 

[kaz]

We are at least 50 years from getting even close to getting off fossil fuels. Anyone who believes otherwise is naïve as FUCK.

You could be right, but I doubt it will be that long. There are millions of gas and diesel vehicles on the roads, and all manufacturers aren't converting to electric. The transition will take several years, but I doubt it will be 50.

There are still several MAJOR hurdles to overcome

1) As people have pointed out, 2% of the market is electric. That means that fossil fuel plants will massively grow to charge the 98% and Democrats oppose actual solutions like fracking for natural gas and nuclear

2) Battery technology just isn't there to create enough batteries that last long enough and can be processed at end of life (dispose or recycle)

3) The cheapest electric cars are $50K. Again, 2% of the cars are now electric. Think of the cost of the other 98%.

We're a ways off, those are three MAJOR hurdles to clear

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

Yep, when you only get 250 miles on a good day from an electric fill up, that took 1 hour, sure, the electric car is the way to go. But if you have to go from Florida to Arizona, and it takes you 10 fill ups and it is cold outside and the days are short, you have to fill up a few more times and longer because battteries dont do well in cold weather. And all those coal fired power plants need to be churning out the CO2 for the demand of all that electricity during that time because what happened in Texas can happen any where else.

Valentine's Week Winter Outbreak 2021: Snow, Ice, & Record Cold

Using the heat for an hour will shorten that range up to 18 miles...

Tips for staying warm in your Tesla this winter without killing battery range

As we near the winter months and temperature begins to drop across various parts of the world, Tesla owners living within cold climates will inevitably resort to their vehicle’s onboard climate control settings and seat heaters to stay warm. But understanding how much power each component...

www.teslarati.com

Getting stuck in a traffic jam in a snowstorm could be rather concerning.

I would hate having an electric vehicle with short range and driving around always worrying about charge and energy efficiency. For commuting, it would be fine, but I would want a gasoline engine for trips.

Then when you get to your destination, if there is no charger available, charging off a standard 110V outlet will only give you about three miles per hour of charging. It's not really feasible..

Can Tesla charge on a regular 110v wall outlet? Technically, yes. BUT...

You can connect your Tesla to a standard 110v plug receptacle with the free adapter that comes with the car. But you can only charge slowly--at about 3 miles of range per hour parked. But better than nothing! Read about how to charge on a regular outlet (if you really have to).

www.pluglesspower.com

 

[BULLDOG]

Yep, when you only get 250 miles on a good day from an electric fill up, that took 1 hour, sure, the electric car is the way to go. But if you have to go from Florida to Arizona, and it takes you 10 fill ups and it is cold outside and the days are short, you have to fill up a few more times and longer because battteries dont do well in cold weather.

The inception of the idea about a battery charged-electric vehicle is indeed ... compact, light and far more efficient nickel/metal (NiMH) accumulators. ... A brave new world is upon us, with many pioneers leading the way of developments. ...​

Hey, get your jollies off on electric cars all you want, but a few facts are in order:

1. GM isn't phasing out gas cars until 15 years from now, so they say today.
2. A great many people rely on the USED market buying used gasoline cars up to ten years old. That means there will still be a steady demand for used gas cars at least until 2045.
3. In a bad economy, a $4,000 used gas car will be easier to sell than a $60,000 new electric car.
4. As time goes on and more people see the liabilities of an electric car, they will be sticking with or going back to gasoline.
5. As gas cars become scarcer on the market, their value will soar.
6. The electric car is a CONSUMER item and will never replace all forms of transportation.
7. The environmental/climatic benefits of electric cars is being greatly overstated.
8. The minute they develop a practical hydrogen fuel cell, they will drop electric battery cars like hot cakes making them valueless.
9. Electric cars will be chock full of computer restrictions and government regulations limiting the driver and telling on him; as people realize that, they will flock back to gasoline.
10. The electric car will never fully supplant the gas car until they literally outlaw gas cars, close all gas stations and FORCE everyone to electric.

8. There are many more infrastructure hurdles for hydrogen than there are for electric.

9. You seem to think today's gas powered cars aren't chock full of computers already, and any imagined restrictions you fear could be easily implemented with the technology we currently have.

Hydrogen certainly will be very different to refuel and will require very different fueling stations.

But as for computers and restrictions, I think he is referring to things like keeping a log of all the traffic infractions like speeding, what strip club you went to, etc.

If he thinks that is all computers do in cars, he has no idea of what their main purpose is. They regulate all the aspects of combustion to get more power and less harmful exhaust. It used to be hard to find a factory V8 with 300 horsepower. Now it's common to get that from a four cylinder. Computers made that possible.

Not really.
Computers just made it cheaper.
The main way you increase power is by increasing compression ratio, like with a turbo charger, and then the problem becomes avoiding the deadly pre-ignition.
Pre-ignition can easily be prevented by mechanical fuel injection directly into the cylinders, like diesels used to have, and the only problem with that is it is expensive.

But some people are under the false impression computers can actually see and recognize things in real time speeds, and that is false.
Computers are about 100 million times slower at recognizing images than humans.

I don't know of any automotive computer functions that involve recognizing images. Computers can make thousands of measurements per second, or more on things like pressure, temperature, and position. Automotive knock sensors, which detect preignition, generally work in the 5 to 15 khz range. Computers can generally adjust spark timing to prevent preignition on the next cylinder's ignition.

 

[toobfreak]

Yep, when you only get 250 miles on a good day from an electric fill up, that took 1 hour, sure, the electric car is the way to go. But if you have to go from Florida to Arizona, and it takes you 10 fill ups and it is cold outside and the days are short, you have to fill up a few more times and longer because battteries dont do well in cold weather.

The inception of the idea about a battery charged-electric vehicle is indeed ... compact, light and far more efficient nickel/metal (NiMH) accumulators. ... A brave new world is upon us, with many pioneers leading the way of developments. ...​

Hey, get your jollies off on electric cars all you want, but a few facts are in order:

1. GM isn't phasing out gas cars until 15 years from now, so they say today.
2. A great many people rely on the USED market buying used gasoline cars up to ten years old. That means there will still be a steady demand for used gas cars at least until 2045.
3. In a bad economy, a $4,000 used gas car will be easier to sell than a $60,000 new electric car.
4. As time goes on and more people see the liabilities of an electric car, they will be sticking with or going back to gasoline.
5. As gas cars become scarcer on the market, their value will soar.
6. The electric car is a CONSUMER item and will never replace all forms of transportation.
7. The environmental/climatic benefits of electric cars is being greatly overstated.
8. The minute they develop a practical hydrogen fuel cell, they will drop electric battery cars like hot cakes making them valueless.
9. Electric cars will be chock full of computer restrictions and government regulations limiting the driver and telling on him; as people realize that, they will flock back to gasoline.
10. The electric car will never fully supplant the gas car until they literally outlaw gas cars, close all gas stations and FORCE everyone to electric.

8. There are many more infrastructure hurdles for hydrogen than there are for electric.

9. You seem to think today's gas powered cars aren't chock full of computers already, and any imagined restrictions you fear could be easily implemented with the technology we currently have.

Hydrogen certainly will be very different to refuel and will require very different fueling stations.

But as for computers and restrictions, I think he is referring to things like keeping a log of all the traffic infractions like speeding, what strip club you went to, etc.

If he thinks that is all computers do in cars, he has no idea of what their main purpose is. They regulate all the aspects of combustion to get more power and less harmful exhaust. It used to be hard to find a factory V8 with 300 horsepower. Now it's common to get that from a four cylinder. Computers made that possible.

Not really.
Computers just made it cheaper.
The main way you increase power is by increasing compression ratio, like with a turbo charger, and then the problem becomes avoiding the deadly pre-ignition.
Pre-ignition can easily be prevented by mechanical fuel injection directly into the cylinders, like diesels used to have, and the only problem with that is it is expensive.

But some people are under the false impression computers can actually see and recognize things in real time speeds, and that is false.
Computers are about 100 million times slower at recognizing images than humans.

One small fact worth adding to the equation is that all these methods of increasing the (volumetric) efficiency of the engine also tends to shorten their lives by increasing operational stress. Forcing 300 HP out of a 4 cylinder will roughly cut the life expectancy of that engine down to about maybe a quarter that of a 8 cylinder.

 

[BULLDOG]

You mean like we STILL DO with oil companies.

I would add many of those oil companies don't pay a penny in federal income taxes.

You should absolutely LOVE oil companies, since they are providing the fuel to generate electricity for EVs. Evs aren't going anywhere without the oil companies.

Fossil fuels don't generate electricity in my state.

We use water, wind, solar and a small nuclear facility.

We started shutting down our last coal fired plant in 2005. I'm sure it's closed by now.

We started building one of the nation's largest wind farms in the 90s.

The result?

We generate more electricity than we use so we sell the excess to other states for a profit. If you live in one of those states, you're welcome for the cheap and clean energy.

We also have the second lowest electric rates in the country.

So my state doesn't need or want fossil fuels to generate electricity.

Untrue anywhere in the US.
Coal is the #1 electricity producer in ALL US states and most of the world.
Many states just do not know how their electricity is produced because it is part of an out of state grid.
It is never going to be possible to use only renewable resources any place in the world except on ocean shores, near high thermal sources, or where one does not mind killing fish.

So, if renewable sources can't supply all our needs, then we will use coal, or gas, or dried cow dung if we have to. We will maintain a reliable energy source of one kind or another. It will just be better for us if we can do that with renewable sources sooner. Nobody wants or expects a complete conversion to renewables before that is possible. Quit whining.

Going to electricity before electricity is renewable, only makes emissions much worse.
Nor does electricity allow for any reasonable totally renewable result eventually either, while bio fuel does.
So there is no point in going electrical.
It is inefficient.
Can you imagine trying to do ships, planes, or even EV trucks?
The would have no capacity to carry anything.
Batteries are way too heavy.

We already have diesel/electric ships and trucks, Electric power has already been proven to be more efficient than direct power by internal combustion. Why are you so afraid of progress? Do you think we will completely convert to battery powered electric before we have technology to match or better internal combustion? That's just silly.

 

[BULLDOG]

We are at least 50 years from getting even close to getting off fossil fuels. Anyone who believes otherwise is naïve as FUCK.

You could be right, but I doubt it will be that long. There are millions of gas and diesel vehicles on the roads, and all manufacturers aren't converting to electric. The transition will take several years, but I doubt it will be 50.

There are still several MAJOR hurdles to overcome

1) As people have pointed out, 2% of the market is electric. That means that fossil fuel plants will massively grow to charge the 98% and Democrats oppose actual solutions like fracking for natural gas and nuclear

2) Battery technology just isn't there to create enough batteries that last long enough and can be processed at end of life (dispose or recycle)

3) The cheapest electric cars are $50K. Again, 2% of the cars are now electric. Think of the cost of the other 98%.

We're a ways off, those are three MAJOR hurdles to clear

I'm sure there are more hurdles than that. Convesion to electric power won't happen until we have technology to meet the demands. Only a hysteronic idiot would think that will happen. All those major auto companies would never convert to electric vehicles if they thought fhey would lose market share to all the other companies that aren't converting yet.

 

[Bush92]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

If you're a dude and you drive an electric car I would bet you put another guys unit in your mouth.