Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

[Mr Natural]

The internal combustion engine is a Rube Goldberg device. It served us well for many years but maybe it’s time for it to go like the vacuum tube and the incandescent light bulb.

The best professional guitar players still use tube amps.

Because they sound better.

A car with an ICE doesn’t necessarily drive better than one with an electric motor.

 

[Obiwan]

The internal combustion engine is a Rube Goldberg device. It served us well for many years but maybe it’s time for it to go like the vacuum tube and the incandescent light bulb.

The best professional guitar players still use tube amps.

Because they sound better.

A car with an ICE doesn’t necessarily drive better than one with an electric motor.

But if you run out of energy (AKA FUEL) with an internal combustion engine, it's easy to go to the gas station and get more...

Have you ever considered how you can go get a bucket of electricity of your electric vehicle dies on the interstate????

 

[bripat9643]

The internal combustion engine is a Rube Goldberg device. It served us well for many years but maybe it’s time for it to go like the vacuum tube and the incandescent light bulb.

The best professional guitar players still use tube amps.

Because they sound better.

A car with an ICE doesn’t necessarily drive better than one with an electric motor.

The EV actually drives better, but it has to lug around 1000 lbs of batteries.

 

[Muhammed]

The internal combustion engine is a Rube Goldberg device. It served us well for many years but maybe it’s time for it to go like the vacuum tube and the incandescent light bulb.

The best professional guitar players still use tube amps.

Because they sound better.

A car with an ICE doesn’t necessarily drive better than one with an electric motor.

Tube amps perform better than solid state amps IMO.

Internal combustion engines are very inefficient. Electric motors outperform them. Fifty years from now, damn near every car on the road will be electric. And guitarists will still be using tube amps.

 

[Rigby5]

Yep, when you only get 250 miles on a good day from an electric fill up, that took 1 hour, sure, the electric car is the way to go. But if you have to go from Florida to Arizona, and it takes you 10 fill ups and it is cold outside and the days are short, you have to fill up a few more times and longer because battteries dont do well in cold weather.

The inception of the idea about a battery charged-electric vehicle is indeed ... compact, light and far more efficient nickel/metal (NiMH) accumulators. ... A brave new world is upon us, with many pioneers leading the way of developments. ...​

Hey, get your jollies off on electric cars all you want, but a few facts are in order:

1. GM isn't phasing out gas cars until 15 years from now, so they say today.
2. A great many people rely on the USED market buying used gasoline cars up to ten years old. That means there will still be a steady demand for used gas cars at least until 2045.
3. In a bad economy, a $4,000 used gas car will be easier to sell than a $60,000 new electric car.
4. As time goes on and more people see the liabilities of an electric car, they will be sticking with or going back to gasoline.
5. As gas cars become scarcer on the market, their value will soar.
6. The electric car is a CONSUMER item and will never replace all forms of transportation.
7. The environmental/climatic benefits of electric cars is being greatly overstated.
8. The minute they develop a practical hydrogen fuel cell, they will drop electric battery cars like hot cakes making them valueless.
9. Electric cars will be chock full of computer restrictions and government regulations limiting the driver and telling on him; as people realize that, they will flock back to gasoline.
10. The electric car will never fully supplant the gas car until they literally outlaw gas cars, close all gas stations and FORCE everyone to electric.

8. There are many more infrastructure hurdles for hydrogen than there are for electric.

9. You seem to think today's gas powered cars aren't chock full of computers already, and any imagined restrictions you fear could be easily implemented with the technology we currently have.

Hydrogen certainly will be very different to refuel and will require very different fueling stations.

But as for computers and restrictions, I think he is referring to things like keeping a log of all the traffic infractions like speeding, what strip club you went to, etc.

If he thinks that is all computers do in cars, he has no idea of what their main purpose is. They regulate all the aspects of combustion to get more power and less harmful exhaust. It used to be hard to find a factory V8 with 300 horsepower. Now it's common to get that from a four cylinder. Computers made that possible.

Not really.
Computers just made it cheaper.
The main way you increase power is by increasing compression ratio, like with a turbo charger, and then the problem becomes avoiding the deadly pre-ignition.
Pre-ignition can easily be prevented by mechanical fuel injection directly into the cylinders, like diesels used to have, and the only problem with that is it is expensive.

But some people are under the false impression computers can actually see and recognize things in real time speeds, and that is false.
Computers are about 100 million times slower at recognizing images than humans.

 

[Rigby5]

The internal combustion engine is a Rube Goldberg device. It served us well for many years but maybe it’s time for it to go like the vacuum tube and the incandescent light bulb.

The best professional guitar players still use tube amps.

Because they sound better.

A car with an ICE doesn’t necessarily drive better than one with an electric motor.

The EV actually drives better, but it has to lug around 1000 lbs of batteries.

EVs also have to recharge often in cold, rainy weather, take a long time to recharge if you want the batteries to last, the batteries cost over $5K, and most electricity in the world still comes from coal. After about 50 years when oil and gas run out, coal will be about the only source of electricity.

 

[Rigby5]

The internal combustion engine is a Rube Goldberg device. It served us well for many years but maybe it’s time for it to go like the vacuum tube and the incandescent light bulb.

The best professional guitar players still use tube amps.

Because they sound better.

A car with an ICE doesn’t necessarily drive better than one with an electric motor.

Tube amps perform better than solid state amps IMO.

Internal combustion engines are very inefficient. Electric motors outperform them. Fifty years from now, damn near every car on the road will be electric. And guitarists will still be using tube amps.

ICE is only about 45% efficient, while electric motors are more like 50%, but you are forgetting that generating electricity is only about 50% efficient, transmission lines about 90%, charging batteries only 50%, discharging batteries only about 50%, and that is before it even gets to the 50% loss of the electric motor.
In comparison, if one runs bio fuel, ICE can be way cleaner than anything else. It can absorb more carbon than released.

 

[Rigby5]

And guitarists will still be using tube amps.

Good point that analog is smoothly continuous while digital always has to be stepped.

 

[HappyJoy]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

Electric cars aren't eco-friendly contrary to they'd have you believe.

still they will bring oil prices back to normality, which means death of moscow empire, KSA (wahhabism) etc

Even now electric cars are clearner than the ICE. It may take a couple of years during the EVs life cycle to catch up but in the end they are better for the environment. And that of course will change as our power grid is filled with even more diverse green energy.

Benefits of electric cars on the environment

All you need to know about electric cars, also known as EVs, and their effect on our environment. Find out if electric or petrol cars are a better choice for our planet.

www.edfenergy.com

I wouldn't necessarily say to go out and buy and EV to save the planet, wait until you need a car and then look for used or new EVs.

 

[Rigby5]

You mean like we STILL DO with oil companies.

I would add many of those oil companies don't pay a penny in federal income taxes.

You should absolutely LOVE oil companies, since they are providing the fuel to generate electricity for EVs. Evs aren't going anywhere without the oil companies.

Fossil fuels don't generate electricity in my state.

We use water, wind, solar and a small nuclear facility.

We started shutting down our last coal fired plant in 2005. I'm sure it's closed by now.

We started building one of the nation's largest wind farms in the 90s.

The result?

We generate more electricity than we use so we sell the excess to other states for a profit. If you live in one of those states, you're welcome for the cheap and clean energy.

We also have the second lowest electric rates in the country.

So my state doesn't need or want fossil fuels to generate electricity.

Untrue anywhere in the US.
Coal is the #1 electricity producer in ALL US states and most of the world.
Many states just do not know how their electricity is produced because it is part of an out of state grid.
It is never going to be possible to use only renewable resources any place in the world except on ocean shores, near high thermal sources, or where one does not mind killing fish.

So, if renewable sources can't supply all our needs, then we will use coal, or gas, or dried cow dung if we have to. We will maintain a reliable energy source of one kind or another. It will just be better for us if we can do that with renewable sources sooner. Nobody wants or expects a complete conversion to renewables before that is possible. Quit whining.

Going to electricity before electricity is renewable, only makes emissions much worse.
Nor does electricity allow for any reasonable totally renewable result eventually either, while bio fuel does.
So there is no point in going electrical.
It is inefficient.
Can you imagine trying to do ships, planes, or even EV trucks?
The would have no capacity to carry anything.
Batteries are way too heavy.

 

[Rigby5]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

Electric cars aren't eco-friendly contrary to they'd have you believe.

still they will bring oil prices back to normality, which means death of moscow empire, KSA (wahhabism) etc

Even now electric cars are clearner than the ICE. It may take a couple of years during the EVs life cycle to catch up but in the end they are better for the environment. And that of course will change as our power grid is filled with even more diverse green energy.

Benefits of electric cars on the environment

All you need to know about electric cars, also known as EVs, and their effect on our environment. Find out if electric or petrol cars are a better choice for our planet.

www.edfenergy.com

No electric cars are not cleaner.
The main source of electricity is still coal, and will become even more of the main source in 50 years, when the gas and oil runs out.
The power grid is not green energy.

 

[Rigby5]

You mean like we STILL DO with oil companies.

I would add many of those oil companies don't pay a penny in federal income taxes.

You should absolutely LOVE oil companies, since they are providing the fuel to generate electricity for EVs. Evs aren't going anywhere without the oil companies.

Fossil fuels don't generate electricity in my state.

We use water, wind, solar and a small nuclear facility.

We started shutting down our last coal fired plant in 2005. I'm sure it's closed by now.

We started building one of the nation's largest wind farms in the 90s.

The result?

We generate more electricity than we use so we sell the excess to other states for a profit. If you live in one of those states, you're welcome for the cheap and clean energy.

We also have the second lowest electric rates in the country.

So my state doesn't need or want fossil fuels to generate electricity.

Untrue anywhere in the US.
Coal is the #1 electricity producer in ALL US states and most of the world.
Many states just do not know how their electricity is produced because it is part of an out of state grid.
It is never going to be possible to use only renewable resources any place in the world except on ocean shores, near high thermal sources, or where one does not mind killing fish.

Nope...
View attachment 498825

Coal is number two and will be three in by next year..

Wrong.
Your graph shows coal is #1 in most states, and oil and gas is going away completely in about 50 years or so, which means it is not a viable source of electricity.
We have over 10 times more coal than oil or gas.

And the graph cheats.
For example, it shows CA as no coal. But in reality, CA gets most of its electricity from coal plants in AZ, NM, UT, NV, etc.

 

[HappyJoy]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

Electric cars aren't eco-friendly contrary to they'd have you believe.

still they will bring oil prices back to normality, which means death of moscow empire, KSA (wahhabism) etc

Even now electric cars are clearner than the ICE. It may take a couple of years during the EVs life cycle to catch up but in the end they are better for the environment. And that of course will change as our power grid is filled with even more diverse green energy.

Benefits of electric cars on the environment

All you need to know about electric cars, also known as EVs, and their effect on our environment. Find out if electric or petrol cars are a better choice for our planet.

www.edfenergy.com

No electric cars are not cleaner.
The main source of electricity is still coal, and will become even more of the main source in 50 years, when the gas and oil runs out.
The power grid is not green energy.

Coal burning power plants are cleaner than individual ICEs which are extremely inefficient. Didn't you know this? Most of the power they create never sees the pavement.

Here is an article about electric buses and even though they are not charged on clean power grids they are cleaner than their gas and diesel counterparts.

Study: Electric Buses Already Emit Less Carbon Than Diesel Buses, in Any State

And their climate impact will decrease as the grid gets cleaner.

www.greentechmedia.com

 

[Rigby5]

We are at least 50 years from getting even close to getting off fossil fuels. Anyone who believes otherwise is naïve as FUCK.

Sounds like a guy on a horse in 1905...

Electric will take over, it will be cheaper, quieter and cleaner gasoline cars... Europe has a very simple fix in London it cost over $20 bring your car into the city, free if fully electric and discounts for the greener the car...

Compare Central London to rest of GB

View attachment 498823

And this has dropped significantly in the last 5 years

Except that electric is no greener
It is so inefficient that is pollutes much more, but you just don't see it since it is remote.

 

[Rigby5]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

Electric cars aren't eco-friendly contrary to they'd have you believe.

still they will bring oil prices back to normality, which means death of moscow empire, KSA (wahhabism) etc

Even now electric cars are clearner than the ICE. It may take a couple of years during the EVs life cycle to catch up but in the end they are better for the environment. And that of course will change as our power grid is filled with even more diverse green energy.

Benefits of electric cars on the environment

All you need to know about electric cars, also known as EVs, and their effect on our environment. Find out if electric or petrol cars are a better choice for our planet.

www.edfenergy.com

No electric cars are not cleaner.
The main source of electricity is still coal, and will become even more of the main source in 50 years, when the gas and oil runs out.
The power grid is not green energy.

Coal burning power plants are cleaner than individual ICEs which are extremely inefficient. Didn't you know this? Most of the power they create never sees the pavement.

Here is an article about electric buses and even though they are not charged on clean power grids they are cleaner than their gas and diesel counterparts.

Study: Electric Buses Already Emit Less Carbon Than Diesel Buses, in Any State

And their climate impact will decrease as the grid gets cleaner.

www.greentechmedia.com

Wrong.
We have only temporarily shifted to natural gas to produce electricity.
When that runs out in 50 years, then we will have to go back to coal, because we have 10 times more coal than natural gas.
And then the emissions of electricity doubles again, becoming greater than diesel.
And it is easy for diesel to beat EV if they use bio fuel because bio fuel absorbs more carbon than produced.
Nothing can ever beat bio fuel.
That is impossible.

 

[HappyJoy]

You mean like we STILL DO with oil companies.

I would add many of those oil companies don't pay a penny in federal income taxes.

You should absolutely LOVE oil companies, since they are providing the fuel to generate electricity for EVs. Evs aren't going anywhere without the oil companies.

Fossil fuels don't generate electricity in my state.

We use water, wind, solar and a small nuclear facility.

We started shutting down our last coal fired plant in 2005. I'm sure it's closed by now.

We started building one of the nation's largest wind farms in the 90s.

The result?

We generate more electricity than we use so we sell the excess to other states for a profit. If you live in one of those states, you're welcome for the cheap and clean energy.

We also have the second lowest electric rates in the country.

So my state doesn't need or want fossil fuels to generate electricity.

Untrue anywhere in the US.
Coal is the #1 electricity producer in ALL US states and most of the world.
Many states just do not know how their electricity is produced because it is part of an out of state grid.
It is never going to be possible to use only renewable resources any place in the world except on ocean shores, near high thermal sources, or where one does not mind killing fish.

Nope...
View attachment 498825

Coal is number two and will be three in by next year..

Wrong.
Your graph shows coal is #1 in most states, and oil and gas is going away completely in about 50 years or so, which means it is not a viable source of electricity.
We have over 10 times more coal than oil or gas.

And the graph cheats.
For example, it shows CA as no coal. But in reality, CA gets most of its electricity from coal plants in AZ, NM, UT, NV, etc.

California only imports about 30% of it's energy. California also uses the least amount of energy per capita. They're on the right track.

 

[Gabe Lackmann]

The rapid rise of electric vehicles could lead to a mountain of battery waste | CNN Business

Based on the 1 million electric cars sold in 2017, researchers calculated that 250,000 tons of unprocessed pack waste will result when these vehicles reach the end of their lives in about 15 to 20 years.

www.cnn.com

 

[HappyJoy]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

Electric cars aren't eco-friendly contrary to they'd have you believe.

still they will bring oil prices back to normality, which means death of moscow empire, KSA (wahhabism) etc

Even now electric cars are clearner than the ICE. It may take a couple of years during the EVs life cycle to catch up but in the end they are better for the environment. And that of course will change as our power grid is filled with even more diverse green energy.

Benefits of electric cars on the environment

All you need to know about electric cars, also known as EVs, and their effect on our environment. Find out if electric or petrol cars are a better choice for our planet.

www.edfenergy.com

No electric cars are not cleaner.
The main source of electricity is still coal, and will become even more of the main source in 50 years, when the gas and oil runs out.
The power grid is not green energy.

Coal burning power plants are cleaner than individual ICEs which are extremely inefficient. Didn't you know this? Most of the power they create never sees the pavement.

Here is an article about electric buses and even though they are not charged on clean power grids they are cleaner than their gas and diesel counterparts.

Study: Electric Buses Already Emit Less Carbon Than Diesel Buses, in Any State

And their climate impact will decrease as the grid gets cleaner.

www.greentechmedia.com

Wrong.
We have only temporarily shifted to natural gas to produce electricity.
When that runs out in 50 years, then we will have to go back to coal, because we have 10 times more coal than natural gas.
And then the emissions of electricity doubles again, becoming greater than diesel.
And it is easy for diesel to beat EV if they use bio fuel because bio fuel absorbs more carbon than produced.
Nothing can ever beat bio fuel.
That is impossible.

When that runs out when? It's like you're saying in a half century nothing will change with our energy make up. When has that ever happened in our country's history?

I'm cool with bio fuels too when/if they come on board.

 

[Rigby5]

You mean like we STILL DO with oil companies.

I would add many of those oil companies don't pay a penny in federal income taxes.

You should absolutely LOVE oil companies, since they are providing the fuel to generate electricity for EVs. Evs aren't going anywhere without the oil companies.

Fossil fuels don't generate electricity in my state.

We use water, wind, solar and a small nuclear facility.

We started shutting down our last coal fired plant in 2005. I'm sure it's closed by now.

We started building one of the nation's largest wind farms in the 90s.

The result?

We generate more electricity than we use so we sell the excess to other states for a profit. If you live in one of those states, you're welcome for the cheap and clean energy.

We also have the second lowest electric rates in the country.

So my state doesn't need or want fossil fuels to generate electricity.

Untrue anywhere in the US.
Coal is the #1 electricity producer in ALL US states and most of the world.
Many states just do not know how their electricity is produced because it is part of an out of state grid.
It is never going to be possible to use only renewable resources any place in the world except on ocean shores, near high thermal sources, or where one does not mind killing fish.

Nope...
View attachment 498825

Coal is number two and will be three in by next year..

Wrong.
Your graph shows coal is #1 in most states, and oil and gas is going away completely in about 50 years or so, which means it is not a viable source of electricity.
We have over 10 times more coal than oil or gas.

And the graph cheats.
For example, it shows CA as no coal. But in reality, CA gets most of its electricity from coal plants in AZ, NM, UT, NV, etc.

California only imports about 30% of it's energy. California also uses the least amount of energy per capita. They're on the right track.

That is not at all true.
CA just hides is electrical use by out of state purchases.
There are times when CA imports 80% of its electricity.
And CA is the single most inefficient electrical user in the country, due to its high use of AC and poor use of insulation.
CA is known for long distance commutes, car culture, lack of mass transit, and terrible construction methods.
There is nothing remotely clean or efficient about CA.

 

[HappyJoy]

You mean like we STILL DO with oil companies.

I would add many of those oil companies don't pay a penny in federal income taxes.

You should absolutely LOVE oil companies, since they are providing the fuel to generate electricity for EVs. Evs aren't going anywhere without the oil companies.

Fossil fuels don't generate electricity in my state.

We use water, wind, solar and a small nuclear facility.

We started shutting down our last coal fired plant in 2005. I'm sure it's closed by now.

We started building one of the nation's largest wind farms in the 90s.

The result?

We generate more electricity than we use so we sell the excess to other states for a profit. If you live in one of those states, you're welcome for the cheap and clean energy.

We also have the second lowest electric rates in the country.

So my state doesn't need or want fossil fuels to generate electricity.

Untrue anywhere in the US.
Coal is the #1 electricity producer in ALL US states and most of the world.
Many states just do not know how their electricity is produced because it is part of an out of state grid.
It is never going to be possible to use only renewable resources any place in the world except on ocean shores, near high thermal sources, or where one does not mind killing fish.

Nope...
View attachment 498825

Coal is number two and will be three in by next year..

Wrong.
Your graph shows coal is #1 in most states, and oil and gas is going away completely in about 50 years or so, which means it is not a viable source of electricity.
We have over 10 times more coal than oil or gas.

And the graph cheats.
For example, it shows CA as no coal. But in reality, CA gets most of its electricity from coal plants in AZ, NM, UT, NV, etc.

California only imports about 30% of it's energy. California also uses the least amount of energy per capita. They're on the right track.

That is not at all true.
CA just hides is electrical use by out of state purchases.
There are times when CA imports 80% of its electricity.
And CA is the single most inefficient electrical user in the country, due to its high use of AC and poor use of insulation.
CA is known for long distance commutes, car culture, lack of mass transit, and terrible construction methods.
There is nothing rem

otely clean or efficient about CA.

I'm looking at annual numbers. 29%.