Why I don't believe in God

[Mudda]

Even if we've had spirituality for over 42,000 years. If it started somewhere, it's not inherent. As well, that "evidence" in no way proves that ALL humans are spiritual. Even you can see that.

Then by your criteria, (If it started somewhere, it's not inherent.) there is no such thing as inherent behavior and that term has no meaning.

I never said all humans are spiritual. Why do you continue to insist on twisting my words and trying to distort the things I am saying? All humans have the capacity to spiritually connect with something greater than self, with the exception of humans who have no cognizance or valid mental faculties. Some people choose not to utilize their capacity... no argument there!

Eating is inherent. Without it we die.

"All humans have the capacity to spiritually connect with something greater than self". You have not proven this yet. Define "greater than self" then prove it.

inherent: existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute. It doesn't say anything about inherent meaning something a living thing cannot live without. That would be an "essential" thing and "essential" things are often inherent. But that isn't what "inherent" means.

Again.. we run into a problem with you and definitions of words.

You have nothing. Give up.

 

[BreezeWood]

Even if we've had spirituality for over 42,000 years. If it started somewhere, it's not inherent. As well, that "evidence" in no way proves that ALL humans are spiritual. Even you can see that.

Then by your criteria, (If it started somewhere, it's not inherent.) there is no such thing as inherent behavior and that term has no meaning.

I never said all humans are spiritual. Why do you continue to insist on twisting my words and trying to distort the things I am saying? All humans have the capacity to spiritually connect with something greater than self, with the exception of humans who have no cognizance or valid mental faculties. Some people choose not to utilize their capacity... no argument there!

Eating is inherent. Without it we die.

"All humans have the capacity to spiritually connect with something greater than self". You have not proven this yet. Define "greater than self" then prove it.

.
Mudd: Define "greater than self" then prove it.

for some reason that person confuses Spirituality, inherent to all living beings with his unique interpretation that to "worship", his actual subject matter is distinct to humanity as no other species bend in prayer and pay homage to his "god" - rather than worshiping as a flaw and certainly an anathema to atheists and others, etc.

Spirituality is evidence for an Almighty, worshiping as a trait of humanity is correct ... they are not interconnected.

.

 

[Boss]

Even if we've had spirituality for over 42,000 years. If it started somewhere, it's not inherent. As well, that "evidence" in no way proves that ALL humans are spiritual. Even you can see that.

Then by your criteria, (If it started somewhere, it's not inherent.) there is no such thing as inherent behavior and that term has no meaning.

I never said all humans are spiritual. Why do you continue to insist on twisting my words and trying to distort the things I am saying? All humans have the capacity to spiritually connect with something greater than self, with the exception of humans who have no cognizance or valid mental faculties. Some people choose not to utilize their capacity... no argument there!

Eating is inherent. Without it we die.

"All humans have the capacity to spiritually connect with something greater than self". You have not proven this yet. Define "greater than self" then prove it.

.
Mudd: Define "greater than self" then prove it.

for some reason that person confuses Spirituality, inherent to all living beings with his unique interpretation that to "worship", his actual subject matter is distinct to humanity as no other species bend in prayer and pay homage to his "god" - rather than worshiping as a flaw and certainly an anathema to atheists and others, etc.

Spirituality is evidence for an Almighty, worshiping as a trait of humanity is correct ... they are not interconnected.

.

Nope... You need to make a case for everything having the capacity to connect spiritually. You've not presented that evidence. The only thing we know of that makes a conscious connection to something they realize as a power greater than self, is human beings. And don't go posting pictures of flowers and bugs... unless you have one that is praying or meditating and scientific evidence which shows that is happening, don't bother. You don't have evidence.

We've had this argument before. I willingly admitted that other life forms COULD be spiritually connected and we just don't know about it... that's possible. I realize you believe that is a fact but until you have offered some evidence it is only your faith-based opinion.

 

[Boss]

You have nothing. Give up.

Translation: Please shut up since I can't refute your argument and I don't know anything else to do but repeat that you've got nothing!

 

[BreezeWood]

Even if we've had spirituality for over 42,000 years. If it started somewhere, it's not inherent. As well, that "evidence" in no way proves that ALL humans are spiritual. Even you can see that.

Then by your criteria, (If it started somewhere, it's not inherent.) there is no such thing as inherent behavior and that term has no meaning.

I never said all humans are spiritual. Why do you continue to insist on twisting my words and trying to distort the things I am saying? All humans have the capacity to spiritually connect with something greater than self, with the exception of humans who have no cognizance or valid mental faculties. Some people choose not to utilize their capacity... no argument there!

Eating is inherent. Without it we die.

"All humans have the capacity to spiritually connect with something greater than self". You have not proven this yet. Define "greater than self" then prove it.

.
Mudd: Define "greater than self" then prove it.

for some reason that person confuses Spirituality, inherent to all living beings with his unique interpretation that to "worship", his actual subject matter is distinct to humanity as no other species bend in prayer and pay homage to his "god" - rather than worshiping as a flaw and certainly an anathema to atheists and others, etc.

Spirituality is evidence for an Almighty, worshiping as a trait of humanity is correct ... they are not interconnected.

.

Nope... You need to make a case for everything having the capacity to connect spiritually. You've not presented that evidence. The only thing we know of that makes a conscious connection to something they realize as a power greater than self, is human beings. And don't go posting pictures of flowers and bugs... unless you have one that is praying or meditating and scientific evidence which shows that is happening, don't bother. You don't have evidence.

We've had this argument before. I willingly admitted that other life forms COULD be spiritually connected and we just don't know about it... that's possible. I realize you believe that is a fact but until you have offered some evidence it is only your faith-based opinion.

.
you simply do not understand the argument you are making -


B: The only thing we know of that makes a conscious connection to something they realize as a power greater than self, is human beings.

You are describing "worship" not Spirituality - for the hundredth time ....


B: unless you have one that is praying or meditating and scientific evidence which shows that is happening, don't bother. You don't have evidence.

what you have " praying or meditating " is evidence of WORSHIP that for some is considered a regression from Spirituality - - > get it ?

how are you not able to recognize what you, yourself refer to as a Spiritual connection existing in the above example - it is you who are in denial of obvious evidence of true Spirituality and a conection to the Almighty.


and frankly, your worshiping throughout the ages has never produced a return call that obviously is another example of your blind arrogance and corruption of Spiritual existance.

.

 

[Boss]

Even if we've had spirituality for over 42,000 years. If it started somewhere, it's not inherent. As well, that "evidence" in no way proves that ALL humans are spiritual. Even you can see that.

Then by your criteria, (If it started somewhere, it's not inherent.) there is no such thing as inherent behavior and that term has no meaning.

I never said all humans are spiritual. Why do you continue to insist on twisting my words and trying to distort the things I am saying? All humans have the capacity to spiritually connect with something greater than self, with the exception of humans who have no cognizance or valid mental faculties. Some people choose not to utilize their capacity... no argument there!

Eating is inherent. Without it we die.

"All humans have the capacity to spiritually connect with something greater than self". You have not proven this yet. Define "greater than self" then prove it.

.
Mudd: Define "greater than self" then prove it.

for some reason that person confuses Spirituality, inherent to all living beings with his unique interpretation that to "worship", his actual subject matter is distinct to humanity as no other species bend in prayer and pay homage to his "god" - rather than worshiping as a flaw and certainly an anathema to atheists and others, etc.

Spirituality is evidence for an Almighty, worshiping as a trait of humanity is correct ... they are not interconnected.

.

Nope... You need to make a case for everything having the capacity to connect spiritually. You've not presented that evidence. The only thing we know of that makes a conscious connection to something they realize as a power greater than self, is human beings. And don't go posting pictures of flowers and bugs... unless you have one that is praying or meditating and scientific evidence which shows that is happening, don't bother. You don't have evidence.

We've had this argument before. I willingly admitted that other life forms COULD be spiritually connected and we just don't know about it... that's possible. I realize you believe that is a fact but until you have offered some evidence it is only your faith-based opinion.

.
you simply do not understand the argument you are making -


B: The only thing we know of that makes a conscious connection to something they realize as a power greater than self, is human beings.

You are describing "worship" not Spirituality - for the hundredth time ....


B: unless you have one that is praying or meditating and scientific evidence which shows that is happening, don't bother. You don't have evidence.

what you have " praying or meditating " is evidence of WORSHIP that for some is considered a regression from Spirituality - - > get it ?

how are you not able to recognize what you, yourself refer to as a Spiritual connection existing in the above example - it is you who are in denial of obvious evidence of true Spirituality and a conection to the Almighty.


and frankly, your worshiping throughout the ages has never produced a return call that obviously is another example of your blind arrogance and corruption of Spiritual existance.

.

Nope. Worship is not Spirituality. Worship is the ritual of homage, honor, appreciation and devotion. It is unrelated to our capacity to connect to something greater than self. People can be very spiritually connected and never worship. You are attempting to connect religious worship to spirituality... tie them together at the hip so that you can condemn them both one in the same. I've invested too much time here segregating the two to allow you to do this. Spirituality and worship are two absolutely different things.

I appreciate more of the pretty flower pictures. It is surely representative of the amazing work of our spiritual Creator. It simply doesn't provide evidence there is any spiritual connection being made by the organism or any conscious recognition of such. Not saying there isn't any, just that you've not given evidence of it.

 

[ChrisL]

Then by your criteria, (If it started somewhere, it's not inherent.) there is no such thing as inherent behavior and that term has no meaning.

I never said all humans are spiritual. Why do you continue to insist on twisting my words and trying to distort the things I am saying? All humans have the capacity to spiritually connect with something greater than self, with the exception of humans who have no cognizance or valid mental faculties. Some people choose not to utilize their capacity... no argument there!

Eating is inherent. Without it we die.

"All humans have the capacity to spiritually connect with something greater than self". You have not proven this yet. Define "greater than self" then prove it.

.
Mudd: Define "greater than self" then prove it.

for some reason that person confuses Spirituality, inherent to all living beings with his unique interpretation that to "worship", his actual subject matter is distinct to humanity as no other species bend in prayer and pay homage to his "god" - rather than worshiping as a flaw and certainly an anathema to atheists and others, etc.

Spirituality is evidence for an Almighty, worshiping as a trait of humanity is correct ... they are not interconnected.

.

Nope... You need to make a case for everything having the capacity to connect spiritually. You've not presented that evidence. The only thing we know of that makes a conscious connection to something they realize as a power greater than self, is human beings. And don't go posting pictures of flowers and bugs... unless you have one that is praying or meditating and scientific evidence which shows that is happening, don't bother. You don't have evidence.

We've had this argument before. I willingly admitted that other life forms COULD be spiritually connected and we just don't know about it... that's possible. I realize you believe that is a fact but until you have offered some evidence it is only your faith-based opinion.

.
you simply do not understand the argument you are making -


B: The only thing we know of that makes a conscious connection to something they realize as a power greater than self, is human beings.

You are describing "worship" not Spirituality - for the hundredth time ....


B: unless you have one that is praying or meditating and scientific evidence which shows that is happening, don't bother. You don't have evidence.

what you have " praying or meditating " is evidence of WORSHIP that for some is considered a regression from Spirituality - - > get it ?

how are you not able to recognize what you, yourself refer to as a Spiritual connection existing in the above example - it is you who are in denial of obvious evidence of true Spirituality and a conection to the Almighty.


and frankly, your worshiping throughout the ages has never produced a return call that obviously is another example of your blind arrogance and corruption of Spiritual existance.

.

Nope. Worship is not Spirituality. Worship is the ritual of homage, honor, appreciation and devotion. It is unrelated to our capacity to connect to something greater than self. People can be very spiritually connected and never worship. You are attempting to connect religious worship to spirituality... tie them together at the hip so that you can condemn them both one in the same. I've invested too much time here segregating the two to allow you to do this. Spirituality and worship are two absolutely different things.

I appreciate more of the pretty flower pictures. It is surely representative of the amazing work of our spiritual Creator. It simply doesn't provide evidence there is any spiritual connection being made by the organism or any conscious recognition of such. Not saying there isn't any, just that you've not given evidence of it.

Lol. I keep asking you what is this "thing" that you (not me - LOL) is supposedly "connecting" with?? Explain please.

Oh, now you are saying there is a "spiritual creator??"

Spirituality exists in your own head but nowhere else. Get used to it. No god or "spiritual creator" is going to help you. You are on your own.

 

[ChrisL]

Better make this life mean something. I'm quite sure it's the only one you get.

 

[Boss]

Lol. I keep asking you what is this "thing" that you (not me - LOL) is supposedly "connecting" with?? Explain please.

Oh, now you are saying there is a "spiritual creator??"

Spirituality exists in your own head but nowhere else. Get used to it. No god or "spiritual creator" is going to help you. You are on your own.

I know, you keep coming to this thread like a moth to a light bulb, don't you? All for the purpose of somehow convincing me that what I "believe in" isn't real. When you tire of mocking me and ridiculing my views, you denigrate me and call me dumb. And it drives you nuts that this isn't working to persuade me, I still "believe in" the same things. So you just keep repeating the cycle over and over in hopes that one day it will have the desired effect.

Yes, I believe we have a spiritual Creator... and you believe what? That physical nature created itself? The universe is... (ahem) Eternal? What is your explanation for why we exist?

Here's the problem, I am the kind of guy who doesn't really have a lot of faith in anything. I have a hard time with faith that I am reassured of, much less, blind faith. For me, things have to make sense and follow logic. That's why I can't comprehend physical nature being able to create itself... it doesn't make sense. Some other force had to create the physical or it can't exist.

I spent a long time in the wilderness, not knowing what I believed. Not feeling a connection to anything, especially not anything spiritual. I can't tell you a day or hour that I changed my mind because I think it's always been inside of me, I just wasn't aware. I went through a series of life-changing events where all my hopes and dreams were shattered and my life had to start completely over. While grasping to cope with this, I read several books about the power of positive thinking, meditation, that kind of thing... nothing in particular... no "enlightenment moment" where it all made sense... just random reading and studying on how to make myself better, how to heal... It was through this that I began to realize a common thread. Faith in the power of something greater than yourself.

I began, on my own with no instruction... to devote a little time each day to meditation. I usually do this in the morning with coffee and in the late evening when I lay down. There are no other distractions, I turn off the computer or TV... just me alone with my thoughts. I clear my mind of everything I am thinking about, all my assorted problems and things I need to get done... I focus on my person... who I am... who I want to be... I think about things helping me and hurting me with the objectives I have for myself. And this is where it get's interesting because I can't really explain what happens to someone who hasn't experienced it. Sometimes, ten minutes, twenty minutes... maybe even 30... I begin to feel a connection with an energy that is not physical. It is emanating around me like a whirlwind but it's not felt in a physical sense.

The more I practiced this meditation ritual, the more I began to feel comfortable with this energy and the more I began to explore utilizing it to my advantage. I started to notice a difference almost immediately in the way I handled things. My decision-making process, my train of thought, my attitude in general were all improved. Things began to go well for me. Problems I thought were insurmountable became nothing at all. Most incredibly, I no longer felt hungry inside... I didn't have that feeling that something was missing.

Naturally, after a while I began to take all of this for granted and I kind of slacked off on the meditation thing for a while... well, guess what? I could tell a difference. Things started to go to shit again for me and that's when I think the switch went on in my head... I realized that my spiritual connection was important to me. So now... when I encounter goofballs who proclaim "it's all made up nonsense" ...I just laugh at that. You may as well be trying to convince me my mother doesn't exist.

 

[hobelim]

Humans are intrinsically hard-wired to be spiritually-connected to something greater than self... it's why we're not still living in trees flinging shit at each other.

People are still flinging shit at each other all over the whole world. Its just more highly evolved shit flinging.

And as has been pointed out to you numerous times, it is the instinct to survive that is intrinsically hard-wired.

As far back as you want to go people practiced superstition and religion historically because if they didn't they were excluded from social life, persecuted, and killed.

Thats a fact. If you don't believe me you can look it up.


To this day many Christians who profess love thy neighbor openly set aside the teaching of Jesus and practice anathema because of one sentence written by Paul. Go figure. How many people today practice Christianity simply out of fear of the threatened financial ruin and suffering related to being marked as a pariah and banished from the support of the community?. How many people profess to believe in and practice Islam simply out of the fear of being beaten mutilated and dismembered? How many atheists on this board would be on their hands and knees praying fervently towards mecca if they were living under such a threat?

It's been pointed out numerous times your theory is full of flaws. First of all, the instinct to survive is inherent to ALL living things. The nuts and bolts are, that's kind of what separates living and non-living things. If you are a living organism, you possess the instinct to survive. Applying that and then trying to pretend it's the only thing inherent in humans is simple-minded retardation of the special kind. Seriously, you need to be riding the short bus.

Fear often motivates behavior, there is no question about that. However, irrational fear is not retained as a fundamental behavioral characteristic of anything that I am aware of. So to make your theory work, we have to imagine a universe where some humans know they are telling a lie and manipulating others who react out of fear. If this defined human spirituality we'd call it "politics!" It would have taken an intelligent species such as human about 200-300 years to realize they were being manipulated by lying power brokers and that would have been the end of human spirituality in our species.

To give us examples of religions that have exploited and manipulated people is just more evidence of our strong and profound human spirituality. If we weren't intrinsically spiritual creatures, religion couldn't exploit anything or manipulate anyone.

"If we weren't intrinsically spiritual creatures, religion couldn't exploit anything or manipulate anyone."


An incoherent post based largely on projection and unsubstantiated assertions finished with perhaps the dumbest non sequitur I ever read on these boards.

Congratulations.

 

[Boss]

"If we weren't intrinsically spiritual creatures, religion couldn't exploit anything or manipulate anyone."


An incoherent post based largely on projection and unsubstantiated assertions finished with perhaps the dumbest non sequitur I ever read on these boards.

Congratulations.

Sorry it went flying over your empty head is all I can say.

Do Christians and Muslims exploit or manipulate you or create fear in you? Of course not, because you don't believe in their religion. If anything, you fight against them with every fiber of your being.... which completely contradicts your argument. You can't be manipulated, exploited or caused to fear something you do not believe in.

Religion exploits and manipulates those who have spiritual faith.

 

[hobelim]

Do Christians and Muslims exploit or manipulate you or create fear in you? Of course not, because you don't believe in their religion. If anything, you fight against them with every fiber of your being.... which completely contradicts your argument. You can't be manipulated, exploited or caused to fear something you do not believe in.

Religion exploits and manipulates those who have spiritual faith.

Nonsense.

Religion exploits and manipulates those who profess to have spiritual faith and demonizes persecutes and kills anyone who rejects it.

Even the most maudlin religion of them all openly practices anathema ruthlessly.

Human beings are social creatures. Many are content in blindly following their leaders if by doing so they can live life without the additional burden of being labeled a pariah.

And the most obvious reason that superstitious religions continue to exist at all is not because of some imaginary inherent spiritual quality but because of the brainwashing through institutionalized mental, emotional, and physical abuse suffered by believers when they were too small to know the difference between right and wrong and true and false and reality and fantasy.

 

[Mudda]

Even if we've had spirituality for over 42,000 years. If it started somewhere, it's not inherent. As well, that "evidence" in no way proves that ALL humans are spiritual. Even you can see that.

Then by your criteria, (If it started somewhere, it's not inherent.) there is no such thing as inherent behavior and that term has no meaning.

I never said all humans are spiritual. Why do you continue to insist on twisting my words and trying to distort the things I am saying? All humans have the capacity to spiritually connect with something greater than self, with the exception of humans who have no cognizance or valid mental faculties. Some people choose not to utilize their capacity... no argument there!

Eating is inherent. Without it we die.

"All humans have the capacity to spiritually connect with something greater than self". You have not proven this yet. Define "greater than self" then prove it.

.
Mudd: Define "greater than self" then prove it.

for some reason that person confuses Spirituality, inherent to all living beings with his unique interpretation that to "worship", his actual subject matter is distinct to humanity as no other species bend in prayer and pay homage to his "god" - rather than worshiping as a flaw and certainly an anathema to atheists and others, etc.

Spirituality is evidence for an Almighty, worshiping as a trait of humanity is correct ... they are not interconnected.

.

"Spirituality is evidence for an Almighty". Ummm... no. It's only proof that we make shit up to explain that which we do not understand.

 

[Mudda]

You have nothing. Give up.

Translation: Please shut up since I can't refute your argument and I don't know anything else to do but repeat that you've got nothing!

You may feel smug all you want, but the fact is, you haven't convinced ANYONE of your bs. NOT ONE PERSON.

 

[Mudda]

Better make this life mean something. I'm quite sure it's the only one you get.

Sorry, you have no proof of that. So it's pure speculation, or wishful thinking.

 

[Boss]

Do Christians and Muslims exploit or manipulate you or create fear in you? Of course not, because you don't believe in their religion. If anything, you fight against them with every fiber of your being.... which completely contradicts your argument. You can't be manipulated, exploited or caused to fear something you do not believe in.

Religion exploits and manipulates those who have spiritual faith.

Nonsense.

Religion exploits and manipulates those who profess to have spiritual faith and demonizes persecutes and kills anyone who rejects it.

Even the most maudlin religion of them all openly practices anathema ruthlessly.

Human beings are social creatures. Many are content in blindly following their leaders if by doing so they can live life without the additional burden of being labeled a pariah.

And the most obvious reason that superstitious religions continue to exist at all is not because of some imaginary inherent spiritual quality but because of the brainwashing through institutionalized mental, emotional, and physical abuse suffered by believers when they were too small to know the difference between right and wrong and true and false and reality and fantasy.

All you're doing now is spewing hate and vile because I destroyed your argument. You weren't "brainwashed" ...you're still alive... what the fuck happened there? Religion hasn't killed you yet? You'd blindly follow Hillary or Barry O off a cliff... but not ANY religious leader... so how does your stupid argument to the contrary hold water? You're a living example of how your entire theory is total and utter bullshit.

Religions exist because humans are intrinsically spiritual creatures who believe in something greater than self. They've been around long before you and will be around long after you... and I'll venture to guess, religion will have absolutely nothing to do with causing your demise.

 

[Boss]

"Spirituality is evidence for an Almighty". Ummm... no. It's only proof that we make shit up to explain that which we do not understand.

But it's not, because that is irrational and illogical. Do the experiment, Mr. Science! Next time you want a question answered, just make up some nonsensical explanation and see if that works for you! Unless you are a mental patient in a psych ward, it won't.

What we did (because we are inspired) to explain what we didn't understand, was to create this thing we call SCIENCE! And so now, we have little misguided idiots like you who worship at the alter of Science with all the fanaticism of a radical Islamic. How dare someone question the Holy Grail of Evolution?

 

[Boss]

You have nothing. Give up.

Translation: Please shut up since I can't refute your argument and I don't know anything else to do but repeat that you've got nothing!

You may feel smug all you want, but the fact is, you haven't convinced ANYONE of your bs. NOT ONE PERSON.

I'm not here to convince people... that's YOUR gig! I am here to set your falsehoods straight and school your ignorant ass. I love destroying your fantasies... it's kind of a hobby for me.

 

[Mudda]

"Spirituality is evidence for an Almighty". Ummm... no. It's only proof that we make shit up to explain that which we do not understand.

But it's not, because that is irrational and illogical. Do the experiment, Mr. Science! Next time you want a question answered, just make up some nonsensical explanation and see if that works for you! Unless you are a mental patient in a psych ward, it won't.

What we did (because we are inspired) to explain what we didn't understand, was to create this thing we call SCIENCE! And so now, we have little misguided idiots like you who worship at the alter of Science with all the fanaticism of a radical Islamic. How dare someone question the Holy Grail of Evolution?

 

[Mudda]

"Spirituality is evidence for an Almighty". Ummm... no. It's only proof that we make shit up to explain that which we do not understand.

But it's not, because that is irrational and illogical. Do the experiment, Mr. Science! Next time you want a question answered, just make up some nonsensical explanation and see if that works for you! Unless you are a mental patient in a psych ward, it won't.

What we did (because we are inspired) to explain what we didn't understand, was to create this thing we call SCIENCE! And so now, we have little misguided idiots like you who worship at the alter of Science with all the fanaticism of a radical Islamic. How dare someone question the Holy Grail of Evolution?

Dumb nigs like you give the rest of them a bad rap. Making up non-sensical explanations seem to work very well for you. I rest case.