Why I dont post here

[José]

Originally posted by editec
Okay, now who actually said that, Jillian?

I have no problem stating that Israel has no right to exist, editec.

Ethnic supremacist states have no right to exist at all, no matter how many times western leaders state otherwise.

The only "right" racial dictatorships have is the right to be peacefully dismantled and replaced by democratic, secular governments just like in South Africa.

 

[Foxfyre]

I have no problem stating that Israel has no right to exist, editec.

Ethnic supremacist states have no right to exist at all, no matter how many times western leaders state otherwise.

The only "right" racial dictatorships have is the right to be peacefully dismantled and replaced by democratic, secular governments just like in South Africa.

The Egyptians enslaved the Jews an estimated 1200 to 1400 years or so BC. The Babylonians evicted the Jews from their homeland roughly 600 or so BC--Cyrus of Persia allowed them to return more than a century later. The Romans evicted the Jews from Jerusalem the first century AD. From Constantine (4th Century) until the Renaissance and Reformation, Jews were mostly forbidden to own land and most other real property throughout the lands that made up the Roman Empire. By the 20th Century the Jews were being treated miserably in many countries in Europe and the near East with families, businesses, industries, whole villages wiped out in viscious pograms in Russia, Romania, and elsewhere. By some estimates, between the pograms and the German genocide committed during WW11, as many as 11 million Jews may been killed. And pockets of discrimination specifically directed at the Jews have continued on most continents since WWII. As recently as the 1960's or 1970's, a largest group of Jews suffering intense discrimination in South America pulled up stakes and emigrated to Israel.

Given the tragic history of the Jews and the long history of discriminatory and genocidal treatment, it was a humane and practical effort for the UN nations to provide Israel one tiny TINY plot of ground on the face of the Earth where the Jews would not be discriminated against, where they could set up their own government and practice their own religion as they saw fit. It was one place on Earth that Jews could be Jews without fear of being punished or discriminated against for who they are.

Great Britain provided the land; the remainder of the UN provided the charter under which Israel would be authorized. That was in 1948.

Immediately the Arab community organized to exterminate the Jews of the new Israel. Most of the Palestinians left expecting that process to be accomplished quickly and then they would return sans Jews. Of course, the Israelis prevailed and the Arabs, though they have stirved mightily to do so, have been unable to exterminate them. The Palestinians who didn't flee Israel are full Israeli citizens with all rights and privileges of citizenship within Israel and with seats on the Knesset. There are more than 1 million of them in a tiny country and they are prospering. The only ones who do not are those who do not by choice by insisting to live in the desert where they do not have to be 'contaminated' by Jews. That sound discriminatory to me. But I find no discrimination among the Israelis.

But yes, Israel do take strong exception to Arabs who kidnap and torture and murder Israelis, who blow up crowded markets and synagogues and busloads of mothers and school children, and who fire thousands of rockets into Israel hoping to kill Israeli men, women, and children. I think it is pretty okay to discriminate against people who do that and/or who condone that.

Don't you?

 

[manifold]

I guess it must be a Zionist controlled media conspiracy going on here since the only time I've ever heard Israel referred to as a racial dictatorship is when it's posted by anonymous dillholes on a messageboard...and few and far between at that.

 

[Diuretic]

I thought I read somewhere that Israel has a secular constitution. But I could be wrong of course.

 

[Foxfyre]

Israel's government is a democratic republic with free and secret elections held every four years similar to our own. Israeli laws allows complete freedom of religion. The only non-secular component of their government is a system by which Israeli Jews will retain control of the government so that there is no chance that the Jews themselves can be discriminated against--but this stipulation is not based on religion but ethnicity. Admittedly non-Jews in Israel are therefore at the mercy of the Israeli majority; however the Israeli government is a shining jewel of democracy and personal freedoms in a sea of despotic backward Arab nations. It would be possible for discrimination to be practiced via Israeli government, but there is none other than that insurance that the government will remain in the control of the Israeli Jews.

 

[jillian]

Okay, now who actually said that, Jillian?

What do you think putting an Arab majority in control of a Jewish minority in Israel would mean.

I really hate it when people spout what they think are niceities, but fail to look at the actual application of what they espouse.

I've sort of come in on the last page and must missed it if that was stated recently.

Are you serious or are you paraphrasing what you think people are saying, but haven't exactly said?

Again, I look at what would actually happen if your one-state solution happened. I figure so are Israel's enemies. You should, too.

Remember, now, you also decided that you can restate my positions without my having EVER said anything remotely like what you credited me as having said, too.

Like hell I did. I know what it means when someone calls me a zionist racist.

So on THIS SUBJECT, I don't think I am being unreasonable to ask you this question.

I'm not asking us to just all get along, now, I'm merely asking us to stop putting word into other people's mouths.

I don't. I know exactly what I'm dealing with. And I know exactly what the ramifications of your policies are. Do you?

 

[Diuretic]

Thanks for that Foxfyre - seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

[Shogun]

I was not excusing Israel for anything. You should read some of my other posts on the subject. I am critical of a lot of what Israel does. However I wont stand for people comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Thats a load of BS.

when you hold a RACIST ETHNIC STANDARD for israel while demonizing Aryans for the exact same goddamn thing then yes it is quite apt and valid. Do you think gas chambers and xylon B are the ONLY way that a racist minority can marginalize an ethnic majority? If so, then the irony of Nelson Mandela is lost on you. Hate to break it to you but your shit sticks just like the rest of us whose pet nations wanted an ethnically pure standard.

 

[Ravi]

Shog, what are they doing that you feel is racist exactly?

 

[Shogun]

Yep, Jillian and a few others have already convinced me I have to post on these topics, As much as I didn't want to. However some of the responses to this thread and others I have now posted on kinda prove my point. Because I am part Jewish I am often dismissed as not being allowed to have an opinion on the matter, or called a Zionist. Which I am anything but. You ever hear a Zionist call for a return to the 67 borders of For Israel to move it's capitol back to Tel Aviv? I haven't lol, Yet I am called it.

Maybe they are not Anti-Semites but surely many of them are Anti Israelis. Trying to say Israel is the Bad guy and the Palestinians good is well, I can't even put it into words. Suffice to say it is just plain wrong.

sorry.. gonna have to call shennanigans on you, buddy. We can see the exact same social pattern when Euros decided that manifest destiny was more important than native consideration too. The bottom line is that if YOU hold an ethnic standard for your pet nation, like german aryians and WHITE SOUTHERNERS and BRITISH SOUTH AFRIKANERS, then you are no better than those who put your ancestors in gas chambers. If you think pointing this out amounts to antisemitism then you are no more interested in peace than Jill is.



Single state solution, dude. If you can't stomach a plural israel then there is no reason germans, Americans or anyone else should have had to accepted you.

 

[Shogun]

Belt up, you ponce!

i love your avatar, ang.

 

[Foxfyre]

when you hold a RACIST ETHNIC STANDARD for israel while demonizing Aryans for the exact same goddamn thing then yes it is quite apt and valid. Do you think gas chambers and xylon B are the ONLY way that a racist minority can marginalize an ethnic majority? If so, then the irony of Nelson Mandela is lost on you. Hate to break it to you but your shit sticks just like the rest of us whose pet nations wanted an ethnically pure standard.

The "Aryans" attempted racial purity via extermination of the Jews along with homosexuals, gypsies, mental defectives, and other undesirable.

The Jews have attempted to exterminate nobody and afford full rights to citizenship to anybody of ANY ethnicity who are willing to be responsible Israeli citizens.

There is a huge difference between these two things.

 

[Shogun]

Nah they just reminded me that being part Jewish I have an interest in the Issues and therefore a duty to be proactive when ever I can.

yea.. ask William Joyce about how that same statement applies to his forum interaction, dude.

 

[Shogun]

The deaths will stop when terrorists stop blowing themselves up to kill innocent people.

Israel isn't a theocracy. Again, get your facts straight. I really have little patience for people who support policies which would result only in dead jews not knowing their facts.

Arab Israelis have full rights of citizenship. What Israel won't do is make Israel another Arab State in the mid-east. You think deaths stop if it becomes an Arab country? Or you just don't mind dead Jews?

yeaaaa.. go tell that to the burning bush, jill..

funny how you ONLY care about dead JEWS though... nope.. thats not racist AT ALL!




full rights of citizenship my ass. I'll quote Olmert, Jill. Allowing blacks to vote didn't turn America into another AFRICAN nation either, brainiac.

 

[Shogun]

Okay, now who actually said that, Jillian?

I've sort of come in on the last page and must missed it if that was stated recently.

Are you serious or are you paraphrasing what you think people are saying, but haven't exactly said?

Remember, now, you also decided that you can restate my positions without my having EVER said anything remotely like what you credited me as having said, too.

So on THIS SUBJECT, I don't think I am being unreasonable to ask you this question.

I'm not asking us to just all get along, now, I'm merely asking us to stop putting word into other people's mouths.

indeed, WHO? You see, no one HAS to say ANYTHING in order to have a Scarlet A applied.


it's the standard knee jerk reaction to an issue that she knows damn well she can't defend otherwise. WE don't hold racist standards for citizenship in the west. Jill does as long as it's jews instead of germans doing the rationalizing.


DEMOCRACY = One vote for ALL.

 

[Shogun]

I guess it must be a Zionist controlled media conspiracy going on here since the only time I've ever heard Israel referred to as a racial dictatorship is when it's posted by anonymous dillholes on a messageboard...and few and far between at that.

Hey, that same media blackout made you think that South Africa was doing just fine in 1977 too, buddy. Take your brain pill and call me in the morning.

 

[Shogun]

Israel's government is a democratic republic with free and secret elections held every four years similar to our own. Israeli laws allows complete freedom of religion. The only non-secular component of their government is a system by which Israeli Jews will retain control of the government so that there is no chance that the Jews themselves can be discriminated against--but this stipulation is not based on religion but ethnicity. Admittedly non-Jews in Israel are therefore at the mercy of the Israeli majority; however the Israeli government is a shining jewel of democracy and personal freedoms in a sea of despotic backward Arab nations. It would be possible for discrimination to be practiced via Israeli government, but there is none other than that insurance that the government will remain in the control of the Israeli Jews.

shining jewel my ass. SHINING JEWELS don't have aparthied walls. You might as well have just said Birmingham alabama was the SHINING JEWEL of race relations in 1955.


Tell me how evil it is for white people to retain THEIR dominance here in the states as you totally miss the irony of your rationalized racism.

 

[Shogun]

What do you think putting an Arab majority in control of a Jewish minority in Israel would mean.
I really hate it when people spout what they think are niceities, but fail to look at the actual application of what they espouse.



Again, I look at what would actually happen if your one-state solution happened. I figure so are Israel's enemies. You should, too.

Like hell I did. I know what it means when someone calls me a zionist racist.

I don't. I know exactly what I'm dealing with. And I know exactly what the ramifications of your policies are. Do you?

Face it. You've been SERVED. White people said the EXACT SAME THING pre-emancipation proclamation. Pals are only your enemies if you make them such. But, be honest, having an excuse for the martyr routine works out for you in the end, doesnt it?

=

 

[manifold]

Soggy's passion trifecta:

- Hatred of Jews
- Hatred of women
- A carton of Marlboros

What a guy!

 

[Shogun]

Shog, what are they doing that you feel is racist exactly?

Restricting national control to only jews while marginalizing pals for the sake of an ALL JEWISH nation.


Tell me, Ravi, how would you feel about white people doing the exact same thing in the US?