CDZ Why I support Universal healthcare, and why I don't.

[2aguy]

Why I DON'T SUPPORT UHC.... because it is the federal government.
And the American federal government is wholly corrupt, inept, wasteful and the needs of the population are a very-very distant 2nd to special interest, globalism and corporatism. As we saw with Obamacare... the government, even when liberals are the ones that did it, gave more thought to protecting Pharma, insurance conglomerates and the $40 Billion medical device industry so so so much more than what people needed.
I simply do not believe the American corrupt system can do the job without fucking us over and over while gifting corporations and special interest.

Hey, did your mail get delivered?
How about the federal highways, they still there?
The military, they kept anyone from invading us.

You complain about the special interests, but those special interests are your fellow Americans.

The medical device industry includes 6500 companies, most of which employ less than 50 people. I worked for one such company in the late 1990's. No one was getting filthy rich off the deal. When the doctor who started the company died, his family sold it to the managers of the company.

The thing with ObamaCare is that it was Romney Care with a fresh coat of paint, and conservatives were just fine with RomneyCare until the Black Guy made it national policy.

The things that could have made O-care less awful would have been a public option and a Medicare buy in, but those were both shot down by conservative democrats in the Senate along with Republicans, and Obama's unwillingness to employ the Nuclear Option.

Wrong, conservatives weren't "fine" with Romneycare and knew that it was a dumb idea.........

A Double Failure

There’s good reason for his change of position. The Massachusetts plan was supposed to accomplish two things — achieve universal health insurance coverage while controlling costs. As Romney wrote in the Wall Street Journal, “Every uninsured citizen in Massachusetts will soon have affordable health insurance and the costs of health care will be reduced.” In reality, the plan has done neither.

Perhaps the most publicized aspect of the Massachusetts reform is its mandate that every resident have health insurance, whether provided by an employer or the government or purchased individually. “I like mandates,” Romney said during a debate in New Hampshire. “The mandate works.” But did it?

Technically the last day to sign up for insurance in compliance with that mandate was November 15, though as a practical measure Massachusetts residents actually had until January 1, 2008. Those without insurance as of that date will lose their personal exemption for the state income tax when they file this spring. In 2009, the penalty will increase to 50 percent of the cost of a standard insurance policy.

Such a mandate was, of course, a significant infringement on individual choice and liberty. As the Congressional Budget Office noted, the mandate was “unprecedented,” and represented the first time that a state has required that an individual, simply because they live in a state and for no other reason, must purchase a specific government‐designated product.

It was also a failure.
--------

Billion‐Dollar Overrun

According to insurance industry insiders, the plans are too costly for the target market, and the potential customers — largely younger, healthy men — have resisted buying them. Those who have signed up have been disproportionately older and less healthy. This should come as no surprise since Massachusetts maintains a modified form of community rating, which forces younger and healthier individuals to pay higher premiums in order to subsidize premiums for the old and sick.

Thus, between half and two‐thirds of those uninsured before the plan was implemented remain so. That’s a far cry from universal coverage. In fact, whatever progress has been made toward reducing the ranks of the uninsured appears to be almost solely the result of the subsidies. The much ballyhooed mandate itself appears to have had almost no impact.

The Massachusetts plan might not have achieved universal coverage, but it has cost taxpayers a great deal of money. Originally, the plan was projected to cost $1.8 billion this year. Now it is expected to exceed those estimates by $150 million. Over the next 10 years, projections suggest that Romney‐Care will cost about $2 billion more than was budgeted. And the cost to Massachusetts taxpayers could be even higher because new federal rules could deprive the state of $100 million per year in Medicaid money that the state planned to use to help finance the program.
-----

The Bureaucratic Connector

Although there are undoubtedly many factors behind the cost increase, one reason is that the new bureaucracy that the legislation created — the “Connector” — has not been allowing Massachusetts citizens to buy insurance that “fits their needs.”

Although it has received less media attention than other aspects of the bill, one of the most significant features of the legislation is the creation of the Massachusetts Health Care Connector to combine the current small‐group and individual markets under a single unified set of regulations. Supporters such as Robert E. Moffit and Nina Owcharenko of the Heritage Foundation consider the Connector to be the single most important change made by the legislation, calling it “the cornerstone of the new plan” and “a major innovation and a model for other states.”

Lessons from the Fall of RomneyCare

www.cato.org

 

[progressive hunter]

the #1 reason against it is it puts a far away government in charge of your healthcare with no chance to ever confront them when they decide its time for you to die,,

I'd rather have that fight with a government that I can vote for than an insurance company I can't.

you stand a better chance with an ins co than you ever will with the government,,,

 

[2aguy]

the #1 reason against it is it puts a far away government in charge of your healthcare with no chance to ever confront them when they decide its time for you to die,,

I'd rather have that fight with a government that I can vote for than an insurance company I can't.

You don't vote for the faceless bureaucrat who denies your treatment........and voting for the corrupt politician who takes bribes for access every 2-4 years isn't control.....

 

[2aguy]

Why I DON'T SUPPORT UHC.... because it is the federal government.
And the American federal government is wholly corrupt, inept, wasteful and the needs of the population are a very-very distant 2nd to special interest, globalism and corporatism. As we saw with Obamacare... the government, even when liberals are the ones that did it, gave more thought to protecting Pharma, insurance conglomerates and the $40 Billion medical device industry so so so much more than what people needed.
I simply do not believe the American corrupt system can do the job without fucking us over and over while gifting corporations and special interest.

Hey, did your mail get delivered?
How about the federal highways, they still there?
The military, they kept anyone from invading us.

You complain about the special interests, but those special interests are your fellow Americans.

The medical device industry includes 6500 companies, most of which employ less than 50 people. I worked for one such company in the late 1990's. No one was getting filthy rich off the deal. When the doctor who started the company died, his family sold it to the managers of the company.

The thing with ObamaCare is that it was Romney Care with a fresh coat of paint, and conservatives were just fine with RomneyCare until the Black Guy made it national policy.

The things that could have made O-care less awful would have been a public option and a Medicare buy in, but those were both shot down by conservative democrats in the Senate along with Republicans, and Obama's unwillingness to employ the Nuclear Option.

Obamacare wasn't designed to work, it was designed to destroy private healthcare...

 

[Pete7469]

And yet you guys think that the geniuses who came up with the systems you are complaining about are intelligent enough to make a beter system? Those are the systems those smart people came up with........which you are complaining about.

Why is it you guys always complain about these systems, then want the same people who created those systems to have more power and more control over even biggers systems?

These "people" have no capacity to "think". They live in bubbles and have no concept of how things work, or what goes on in the real world.

One of the main reasons I have to reject a UHC "system" is from my experience in the 3rd world, where communism has been rejected pretty effectively and the best example I can provide is The Philippines.

There is little in the way of a "welfare system", the "safety net" is non-existent.

I will admit I think that sucks for people who through no fault of their own end up with no family support and have had things beyond their control reduce them to dependence. They do represent a tiny fraction of people though.

However, that is the reality of life. Jesus instructed us to care for these people and the churches in the Philippines do the best they can with extremely limited resources. In regards to HC, they have what amounts to a tiered system where pretty much anyone can get basic first aid and life saving treatment regardless of their circumstance within reason. These institutions exist on minimal funding and exceptional levels of charity on behalf of doctors and professionals that donate their time and effort. There is a higher tier that people pay for out of pocket and is remarkably cheap even though not to the standards we have here, but effective and efficient. Most people in the Philippines have access to this middle level of care.

Then you have state of the art hospitals that provide world class care. On one of my visits I fell ill after drinking a vat of coconut wine openly fermented and just about shit myself to death. I was running a 102 degree fever. I saw a gastrointestinal specialist for $35 and got a prescription for Ciprofloxacin. I was chugging beer and dancing within 36 hours. Had I been in Canada I might have died from the fever or dehydration waiting to see a candy striped nurse.

The bed wetting liberals who want to turn hospitals into post offices and DMV offices are too stupid to even discuss the issue with. These are not people with any concept of reality, experience in the real world, or any desire to accept the truth of life.
.

 

[Donald H]

Give private health care insurance another chance. Trump's plan will be released befor Jan.20th. and it will fix everything. Obama is to blame for it taking so long yup!
Cuz universal health care is wot its so bad. It will mak hair grow on your palms and commies under your bed to bit off your toes.
best wishes from Canada
(the death panels killed my pappy's cat.

 

[Pete7469]

Yep....it amazes me when intelligent people tell us how bad the system is, then want to give more power and control to the very people who created the system the intelligent people are complaining about.....as if the people who screwed it up can make it better by giving them more control and power.....

THEY ARE NOT "INTELLIGENT PEOPLE"

They're not even mediocre ignorant middle school drop outs. I don't care if they have Harvard Ph D's, these are the most brain dead vacuous drones that only exist because of safety lids on aspirin bottles and household chemicals.

 

[task0778]

BTW - what I just described is not an American problem. It is actually worse in many countries.
The old adage, you can judge a society on how they treat the very young and the very old.
We fail the test every single day. As does virtually the entire world.

Do you think that has changed much since the dawn of humanity? Consider: in the past couple of hundred years, we have considerably increased lifespans and decreased considerably the mortality rate for the young, true? Medical care has advanced one hell of a lot, and it has done so primarily in the United States in terms of innovation. Look how fast we have developed vaccines for the Coronavirus; amazing stuff.

The problem is that now we want it all. Free, quality health care for all whether you have bothered to take precautions to preserve your own health or not. No responsibility, let the gov't take care of me even if I do harmful drugs, drink like a fish, smoke like a chimney, eat what I want and as much as I want, and sit on my ass and do nothing. No worries, somebody else can pay for it, even if it is our children and those who follow us. Quite a legacy to leave them, no?

Eh?
My father drank beer a little when he was in the Army, stopped when he met my mother in 1957. Never drank again.
I remember him smoking a pipe way back when I was little, not sure why he stopped... guessing it was around 1972ish.
I would say they ate pretty healthy actually. Back then fast food was not popular. They had a large garden every year till they became too old to do it anymore.
Myself, I took over my older brothers paper route when I was 12. Had that till I was 15. At the same time, I also mowed 3 yards and shoveled snow.
At 15 I started working after school for a guy who owned rental properties and had a body shop. Looong story short, I am 55 years old. The longest I was unemployed was for 3 weeks in 1984.
Sooo..... try again

Possibly I missed your point. Of course there are many who are stricken with illnesses and injuries that were not their fault at all, but that has been the case since forever. So, why all of a sudden do we need UHC now when it is far too expensive, riddled with FWA, and has so many problems elsewhere. People talk about other countries that do have UHC, but most of them have problems with access, quality of care, and require a heavy tax burden to support. And most are relatively quite small when it comes to population. Most if not all rely on our pharmas and medical industries to develop and field new innovations and treatments, no? Can a country as populous and large area-wise as the US implement UHC? If anyone thinks so, then why is the VA such a disaster? Why did it fail in Vermont? Why did other states like Colorado, and California reject it?

Maybe we should be looking right now at ways to reduce the cost of healthcare so that if and when we finally do go for UHC the cost won't be so high. Best wishes to you and Bonzi BTW for a happy 2021.

 

[progressive hunter]

BTW - what I just described is not an American problem. It is actually worse in many countries.
The old adage, you can judge a society on how they treat the very young and the very old.
We fail the test every single day. As does virtually the entire world.

Do you think that has changed much since the dawn of humanity? Consider: in the past couple of hundred years, we have considerably increased lifespans and decreased considerably the mortality rate for the young, true? Medical care has advanced one hell of a lot, and it has done so primarily in the United States in terms of innovation. Look how fast we have developed vaccines for the Coronavirus; amazing stuff.

The problem is that now we want it all. Free, quality health care for all whether you have bothered to take precautions to preserve your own health or not. No responsibility, let the gov't take care of me even if I do harmful drugs, drink like a fish, smoke like a chimney, eat what I want and as much as I want, and sit on my ass and do nothing. No worries, somebody else can pay for it, even if it is our children and those who follow us. Quite a legacy to leave them, no?

Eh?
My father drank beer a little when he was in the Army, stopped when he met my mother in 1957. Never drank again.
I remember him smoking a pipe way back when I was little, not sure why he stopped... guessing it was around 1972ish.
I would say they ate pretty healthy actually. Back then fast food was not popular. They had a large garden every year till they became too old to do it anymore.
Myself, I took over my older brothers paper route when I was 12. Had that till I was 15. At the same time, I also mowed 3 yards and shoveled snow.
At 15 I started working after school for a guy who owned rental properties and had a body shop. Looong story short, I am 55 years old. The longest I was unemployed was for 3 weeks in 1984.
Sooo..... try again

Possibly I missed your point. Of course there are many who are stricken with illnesses and injuries that were not their fault at all, but that has been the case since forever. So, why all of a sudden do we need UHC now when it is far too expensive, riddled with FWA, and has so many problems elsewhere. People talk about other countries that do have UHC, but most of them have problems with access, quality of care, and require a heavy tax burden to support. And most are relatively quite small when it comes to population. Most if not all rely on our pharmas and medical industries to develop and field new innovations and treatments, no? Can a country as populous and large area-wise as the US implement UHC? If anyone thinks so, then why is the VA such a disaster? Why did it fail in Vermont? Why did other states like Colorado, and California reject it?

Maybe we should be looking right now at ways to reduce the cost of healthcare so that if and when we finally do go for UHC the cost won't be so high. Best wishes to you and Bonzi BTW for a happy 2021.

government involvement is the reason costs are so high,,

 

[2aguy]

BTW - what I just described is not an American problem. It is actually worse in many countries.
The old adage, you can judge a society on how they treat the very young and the very old.
We fail the test every single day. As does virtually the entire world.

Do you think that has changed much since the dawn of humanity? Consider: in the past couple of hundred years, we have considerably increased lifespans and decreased considerably the mortality rate for the young, true? Medical care has advanced one hell of a lot, and it has done so primarily in the United States in terms of innovation. Look how fast we have developed vaccines for the Coronavirus; amazing stuff.

The problem is that now we want it all. Free, quality health care for all whether you have bothered to take precautions to preserve your own health or not. No responsibility, let the gov't take care of me even if I do harmful drugs, drink like a fish, smoke like a chimney, eat what I want and as much as I want, and sit on my ass and do nothing. No worries, somebody else can pay for it, even if it is our children and those who follow us. Quite a legacy to leave them, no?

Eh?
My father drank beer a little when he was in the Army, stopped when he met my mother in 1957. Never drank again.
I remember him smoking a pipe way back when I was little, not sure why he stopped... guessing it was around 1972ish.
I would say they ate pretty healthy actually. Back then fast food was not popular. They had a large garden every year till they became too old to do it anymore.
Myself, I took over my older brothers paper route when I was 12. Had that till I was 15. At the same time, I also mowed 3 yards and shoveled snow.
At 15 I started working after school for a guy who owned rental properties and had a body shop. Looong story short, I am 55 years old. The longest I was unemployed was for 3 weeks in 1984.
Sooo..... try again

Possibly I missed your point. Of course there are many who are stricken with illnesses and injuries that were not their fault at all, but that has been the case since forever. So, why all of a sudden do we need UHC now when it is far too expensive, riddled with FWA, and has so many problems elsewhere. People talk about other countries that do have UHC, but most of them have problems with access, quality of care, and require a heavy tax burden to support. And most are relatively quite small when it comes to population. Most if not all rely on our pharmas and medical industries to develop and field new innovations and treatments, no? Can a country as populous and large area-wise as the US implement UHC? If anyone thinks so, then why is the VA such a disaster? Why did it fail in Vermont? Why did other states like Colorado, and California reject it?

Maybe we should be looking right now at ways to reduce the cost of healthcare so that if and when we finally do go for UHC the cost won't be so high. Best wishes to you and Bonzi BTW for a happy 2021.

It is the loss of the chance at medical miracles that is the worst tragedy of UHC.......the government doesn't care about saving lives, they simply care about cutting costs and care..........the chance at saving lives from cancer, heart disease, diabetes, blindness, paralysis......and all the other ills and medical problems will be lost.....it will simply come down to managing the decline of the healthcare system........

 

[Donald H]

government involvement is the reason costs are so high,,

Big profits for big business insurance companies is the reason costs are so high.
Canada provided higher quality health care to all it's people at a little more than half the cost of the US system.

Ask me about it, or ask anyone living in any country that has universal health care run by government.

Or just live in denial.

 

[progressive hunter]

government involvement is the reason costs are so high,,

Big profits for big business insurance companies is the reason costs are so high.
Canada provided higher quality health care to all it's people at a little more than half the cost of the US system.

Ask me about it, or ask anyone living in any country that has universal health care run by government.

Or just live in denial.

prove it???

cause my wife and the other 5 people on her team are currently as we speak spending the day making sure all the government changes to prescription programs are working after they were up past midnight last not entering those changes into the programs,,,

that right there is close to a million dollars a yr added onto the costs of ins and healthcare,,

because the government forces a one size fits all it eliminated and chance of competition that would lower the costs,,

 

[Donald H]

government involvement is the reason costs are so high,,

Big profits for big business insurance companies is the reason costs are so high.
Canada provided higher quality health care to all it's people at a little more than half the cost of the US system.

Ask me about it, or ask anyone living in any country that has universal health care run by government.

Or just live in denial.

prove it???

What do you want me to prove?

cause my wife and the other 5 people on her team are currently as we speak spending the day making sure all the government changes to prescription programs are working after they were up past midnight last not entering those changes into the programs,,,

I have no reason to doubt anything you've said there. Your government is corrupt and neither party has the motivation to make a good health care system work in your country. Your politicians on both sides are bought and paid for.

Does your wife work for one of the big insurance companies?

that right there is close to a million dollars a yr added onto the costs of ins and healthcare,,

because the government forces a one size fits all it eliminated and chance of competition that would lower the costs,,

Actually, one size does fit all if you're suggesting that in context to all of the people receiving higher quality health care in Canada than do the working people in your country.

America has the worst rated system of all the modern industrialized countries in the world.

Would communists or socialists do that for their people?

 

[progressive hunter]

government involvement is the reason costs are so high,,

Big profits for big business insurance companies is the reason costs are so high.
Canada provided higher quality health care to all it's people at a little more than half the cost of the US system.

Ask me about it, or ask anyone living in any country that has universal health care run by government.

Or just live in denial.

prove it???

What do you want me to prove?

cause my wife and the other 5 people on her team are currently as we speak spending the day making sure all the government changes to prescription programs are working after they were up past midnight last not entering those changes into the programs,,,

I have no reason to doubt anything you've said there. Your government is corrupt and neither party has the motivation to make a good health care system work in your country. Your politicians on both sides are bought and paid for.

Does your wife work for one of the big insurance companies?

that right there is close to a million dollars a yr added onto the costs of ins and healthcare,,

because the government forces a one size fits all it eliminated and chance of competition that would lower the costs,,

[/QUOTE]
are you even an american??? if not you should mind your own business,,,

no she works for a contractor which is an additional charge on the system created solely by government,,

 

[Donald H]

are you even an american??? if not you should mind your own business,,,[/quote]

No, I'm a Canadian and your request is denied!

[/quote]no she works for a contractor which is an additional charge on the system created solely by government,,
[/QUOTE]

No doubt the contractor is an additional charge!

Your health care system is run by big insurance companies, for profit. If there's government interference making it even worse, that's to be expected with corrupt government.

In Canada and all the other modern countries with government administered universal health care, the government makes it better, not worse.

Are you ready to talk about it? Maybe start by getting the chip off your shoulder. It's a new year now!

 

[progressive hunter]

are you even an american??? if not you should mind your own business,,,

No, I'm a Canadian and your request is denied!

[/quote]no she works for a contractor which is an additional charge on the system created solely by government,,
[/QUOTE]

No doubt the contractor is an additional charge!

Your health care system is run by big insurance companies, for profit. If there's government interference making it even worse, that's to be expected with corrupt government.

In Canada and all the other modern countries with government administered universal health care, the government makes it better, not worse.

Are you ready to talk about it? Maybe start by getting the chip off your shoulder. It's a new year now!
[/QUOTE]
thats funny cause I hear in canada it takes months for simple surgeries and you also have a high tax rate,, not to mention the government decides if you get it or not,,,

I called yesterday to get surgery on my thumb and I go next week,, can you say the same??

 

[alang1216]

The various scandals I have witnessed at the government run VA is enough for me to oppose UHC.

No where to run and no one to run to for help when health care screws you over,...…………………... not if, WHEN!

Surveys of Vets have shown that they think as highly of their VA care as people who use private insurance. You may think it is good to have a large, for-profit corporation making your health care decisions for you, essentially death, panels based, at least in part, on their bottom line but I'm not real comfortable with it.

I am not comfortable having some low IQ non caring career bureaucrat, whose boss is a corrupt politician elected by special interest groups, making decisions for me as important as health care.

I get quality products at a reasonable price created by corporations looking to make a profit all the time. In fact that is what makes our economy run. Health care is no different.

This bit about wanting the filthy government to take over health has nothing to do with cost or quality. It is greedy welfare queens wanting to get somebody else to be responsible for paying their bills.

It doesn't stop with health care. The Moon Bats want everything to be paid for by other people. Hell, now the greedy bastards are demanding that somebody else pick up the bill for their worthless degree college debt. They think they are somehow entitled to it although it didn't provide them with the skills necessary to pay back the debt. China Joe and the Ho ran on a platform to do just that.

Socialism is a serious mental illness and when a good portion of a country's population gets it then the country is usually destroyed.

If you don't want a bureaucrat making your health care decisions then you might want to avoid corporations and let people who are, at least in theory, answerable to the people and not the stockholders.

Capitalist health care is great if there is competition. Even in cities there are limited options for emergency or hospital care, outside cites you take what you get.

Our system is terrible, we have the highest cost for only a middling return. Other countries are much healthier and happier with their health care.

 

[task0778]

government involvement is the reason costs are so high,,

Big profits for big business insurance companies is the reason costs are so high.
Canada provided higher quality health care to all it's people at a little more than half the cost of the US system.

Ask me about it, or ask anyone living in any country that has universal health care run by government.

Or just live in denial.

prove it???

What do you want me to prove?

cause my wife and the other 5 people on her team are currently as we speak spending the day making sure all the government changes to prescription programs are working after they were up past midnight last not entering those changes into the programs,,,

I have no reason to doubt anything you've said there. Your government is corrupt and neither party has the motivation to make a good health care system work in your country. Your politicians on both sides are bought and paid for.

Does your wife work for one of the big insurance companies?

that right there is close to a million dollars a yr added onto the costs of ins and healthcare,,

because the government forces a one size fits all it eliminated and chance of competition that would lower the costs,,

Actually, one size does fit all if you're suggesting that in context to all of the people receiving higher quality health care in Canada than do the working people in your country.

America has the worst rated system of all the modern industrialized countries in the world.

Would communists or socialists do that for their people?

There are no communist or socialist countries that have UHC.

There are a lot of Canadians who would disagree with your statement that their HC is better than ours. Certainly the people that can afford it come here for their health care needs, why do you suppose that is?

"America has the worst rated system of all the modern industrialized countries in the world"

Maybe that depends on who is doing the rating. Personally, I very much doubt that.

"In Canada and all the other modern countries with government administered universal health care, the government makes it better, not worse."

Thanks for the laugh, you're a funny man. There is no country on this planet that makes anything better, not worse.

 

[progressive hunter]

The various scandals I have witnessed at the government run VA is enough for me to oppose UHC.

No where to run and no one to run to for help when health care screws you over,...…………………... not if, WHEN!

Surveys of Vets have shown that they think as highly of their VA care as people who use private insurance. You may think it is good to have a large, for-profit corporation making your health care decisions for you, essentially death, panels based, at least in part, on their bottom line but I'm not real comfortable with it.

I am not comfortable having some low IQ non caring career bureaucrat, whose boss is a corrupt politician elected by special interest groups, making decisions for me as important as health care.

I get quality products at a reasonable price created by corporations looking to make a profit all the time. In fact that is what makes our economy run. Health care is no different.

This bit about wanting the filthy government to take over health has nothing to do with cost or quality. It is greedy welfare queens wanting to get somebody else to be responsible for paying their bills.

It doesn't stop with health care. The Moon Bats want everything to be paid for by other people. Hell, now the greedy bastards are demanding that somebody else pick up the bill for their worthless degree college debt. They think they are somehow entitled to it although it didn't provide them with the skills necessary to pay back the debt. China Joe and the Ho ran on a platform to do just that.

Socialism is a serious mental illness and when a good portion of a country's population gets it then the country is usually destroyed.

If you don't want a bureaucrat making your health care decisions then you might want to avoid corporations and let people who are, at least in theory, answerable to the people and not the stockholders.

Capitalist health care is great if there is competition. Even in cities there are limited options for emergency or hospital care, outside cites you take what you get.

Our system is terrible, we have the highest cost for only a middling return. Other countries are much healthier and happier with their health care.

the unelected government bureaucrats have never been answerable to the people and the government is why theres no competition in HC,,
so that proves government is why our HC is such an expensive system,,

 

[iamwhatiseem]

BTW - what I just described is not an American problem. It is actually worse in many countries.
The old adage, you can judge a society on how they treat the very young and the very old.
We fail the test every single day. As does virtually the entire world.

Do you think that has changed much since the dawn of humanity? Consider: in the past couple of hundred years, we have considerably increased lifespans and decreased considerably the mortality rate for the young, true? Medical care has advanced one hell of a lot, and it has done so primarily in the United States in terms of innovation. Look how fast we have developed vaccines for the Coronavirus; amazing stuff.

The problem is that now we want it all. Free, quality health care for all whether you have bothered to take precautions to preserve your own health or not. No responsibility, let the gov't take care of me even if I do harmful drugs, drink like a fish, smoke like a chimney, eat what I want and as much as I want, and sit on my ass and do nothing. No worries, somebody else can pay for it, even if it is our children and those who follow us. Quite a legacy to leave them, no?

Eh?
My father drank beer a little when he was in the Army, stopped when he met my mother in 1957. Never drank again.
I remember him smoking a pipe way back when I was little, not sure why he stopped... guessing it was around 1972ish.
I would say they ate pretty healthy actually. Back then fast food was not popular. They had a large garden every year till they became too old to do it anymore.
Myself, I took over my older brothers paper route when I was 12. Had that till I was 15. At the same time, I also mowed 3 yards and shoveled snow.
At 15 I started working after school for a guy who owned rental properties and had a body shop. Looong story short, I am 55 years old. The longest I was unemployed was for 3 weeks in 1984.
Sooo..... try again

Possibly I missed your point. Of course there are many who are stricken with illnesses and injuries that were not their fault at all, but that has been the case since forever. So, why all of a sudden do we need UHC now when it is far too expensive, riddled with FWA, and has so many problems elsewhere. People talk about other countries that do have UHC, but most of them have problems with access, quality of care, and require a heavy tax burden to support. And most are relatively quite small when it comes to population. Most if not all rely on our pharmas and medical industries to develop and field new innovations and treatments, no? Can a country as populous and large area-wise as the US implement UHC? If anyone thinks so, then why is the VA such a disaster? Why did it fail in Vermont? Why did other states like Colorado, and California reject it?

Maybe we should be looking right now at ways to reduce the cost of healthcare so that if and when we finally do go for UHC the cost won't be so high. Best wishes to you and Bonzi BTW for a happy 2021.

Thank you - same back at ya...

The high costs is health insurance, and tort insurance doctors have to have... these two things drive up costs. That and hospitals constantly have to cover low incomers that don't pay. My daughter is an RT at a large trauma hospital in Indianapolis. Before COVID there were, what they refer to as "repeat customers", every single night. Multiple every night. These are homeless and drug addicts that come in repeatedly..over and over. They cannot refuse them. And they never pay a dime of course. They clog up ER's and waiting rooms and take up far too much time of the staff. That is 100% passed on to us.