Why is abortion the way of the world?

[Votto]

New York openly legalized murder. As Christians it is our moral duty to stand up against this evil. We must work together and do whatever it takes to reverse this and fight to end all abortion.

The gospel has done an incredible amount of good in the world.

The more influence the gospel has, the more good it does.

Unfortunately, the gospel has waned in the US. Today there have been over 60 million abortions with about 300 people dying a day from drug overdoses.

What did Marx say? Religion is the opiate of the masses? Funny, I don't recall it murdering 300 people a day.

What a crock

Christianity and abortion has a long and complex history, and there are a variety of positions taken by contemporary Christian denominations on the topic. There is no explicit prohibition of abortion in either the Old Testament or New Testament books of the Christian Bible. While some writers say that early Christians held different beliefs at different times about abortion,[1][2][3] others say that, in spite of the silence of the New Testament on the issue, they condemned abortion at any point of pregnancy as a grave sin,[4] a condemnation that they maintained even when some of them did not qualify as homicide the elimination of a fetus not yet "formed" and animated by a human soul.[5] Some authors, such as ethicist Benjamin Wiker, have contrasted the prohibition of abortion in later Christian societies with the availability of abortion that was present in earlier Roman society, arguing that this reflects a wider condemnation of pagan practices.[6]

The prohibition of abortion came from the Catholic Church (not Christianity as a whole) in the Middle Ages..ya know...right around the time they were burning witches (and Jews) and invading the Middle East

As you point out, "Christianity" has a long history with a great number of thorns in it, such as Jewish persecution, Crusades, Inquisitions, etc. That is why someone like Martin Luther had to step up and cry foul! For you see, saying you are a Christian does not mean you are acting like one. Even Luther at the end of his life became anti-Semitic himself.

Thankfully, we have the example of Christ to compare other's behavior, behavior that is clearly not Christ-like.

God is a God of life, not death.

The abortion issue has been wrongly characterized as one side being for the child and against the mother, or one side against the mother and for the child.

In reality, Christians should champion both and help both.

 

[Votto]

indeed. Perhaps that is because the Third World is the most open to the gospel.

Or maybe they're as backwards as you want this country to be

What exactly is backwards about Christianity?

YOUR version of Christianity

And we should note that you dishonestly mischaracterized what I said.

How very "christian" of you

You just got done saying that Christianity was backward but refuse to say why, then you purport to be an unbiased expert.

Very telling.

 

[alang1216]

Most pro-lifers forget to mention it is personhood they are pro because that means they would have to define what it means to be a person and that inevitably leads back to religion​

Still false - that is the pro choice argument trying to force its precepts on a pro life position. A pro life position recognized the sanctity of HUMAN life. Pro choice wants to divide that human life up into a part that is expendable and part that is not.

And none of that requires a religious precept.

A fertilized egg maybe human but every other cell in my body is also human. Why give one cell more legal rights than any cell?

 

[OldLady]

Yup. In a perfect world, that would be 100% of the time. It is not a perfect world.

because it's only 99.997% of the time?

Only .003% of sex winds up in an unwanted pregnancy? Is that what you're saying?

No .Obviously not.

I used the number satirically, but it referred to the number where pregnancy could not have been prevented.


Have you ever heard of rape, dearry?

No method is 100%. So there's that. There is also human error, spontaneity, alcohol, etc. The Pill covers the bases the best but not everyone can take the Pill. I was one of them, so i know how much fun the alternatives are. I tried most of them.

I have heard that most rapes do not result in pregnancy due to the trauma involved. But you folks sure love bringing up rape in every scenario, don't you?

 

[FA_Q2]

missing the fact that many others don’t view embryos in their early stages of development as independent humans, they view them as a piece of a females body and respect her right to decide what to do about it.

That is not a 'fact' - that is a blatantly false position that is used to insulate one from the position that they actually support.

There is not a single definition of life in any scientific measure that even comes close to defining a fetus as 'part' of the mothers body.

I do not really have any issues with the right to chose position. I have a massive problem with the blatant hypocrisy, lies and self delusions that a significant portion of those that support that position use to justify it to themselves.

Easy spin master. I didn’t say anything about science or definitions, I said many people believe. That is not a lie it is a fact. Most people I know including myself feel this way so I know it from first hand experience

I don't care how they feel and I provided exactly zero spin.

How you 'feel' about it is irrelevant. Those are simple facts.

 

[Slade3200]

missing the fact that many others don’t view embryos in their early stages of development as independent humans, they view them as a piece of a females body and respect her right to decide what to do about it.

That is not a 'fact' - that is a blatantly false position that is used to insulate one from the position that they actually support.

There is not a single definition of life in any scientific measure that even comes close to defining a fetus as 'part' of the mothers body.

I do not really have any issues with the right to chose position. I have a massive problem with the blatant hypocrisy, lies and self delusions that a significant portion of those that support that position use to justify it to themselves.

Easy spin master. I didn’t say anything about science or definitions, I said many people believe. That is not a lie it is a fact. Most people I know including myself feel this way so I know it from first hand experience

I don't care how they feel and I provided exactly zero spin.

How you 'feel' about it is irrelevant. Those are simple facts.

When my post is specifically about what people believe then “feelings” are relevant and when you respond with science and definitions that is spin as it’s not addressing what I actually said.

 

[FA_Q2]

missing the fact that many others don’t view embryos in their early stages of development as independent humans, they view them as a piece of a females body and respect her right to decide what to do about it.

That is not a 'fact' - that is a blatantly false position that is used to insulate one from the position that they actually support.

There is not a single definition of life in any scientific measure that even comes close to defining a fetus as 'part' of the mothers body.

I do not really have any issues with the right to chose position. I have a massive problem with the blatant hypocrisy, lies and self delusions that a significant portion of those that support that position use to justify it to themselves.

Easy spin master. I didn’t say anything about science or definitions, I said many people believe. That is not a lie it is a fact. Most people I know including myself feel this way so I know it from first hand experience

I don't care how they feel and I provided exactly zero spin.

How you 'feel' about it is irrelevant. Those are simple facts.

When my post is specifically about what people believe then “feelings” are relevant and when you respond with science and definitions that is spin as it’s not addressing what I actually said.

Stating that you said nothing about science but that you 'believe' falsehoods does not excuse the fact that they are falsehoods. What you are trying to do is the actual spin here. You did not even challenge that the position was false - you ignore that it is false because you 'view' it as true.

Spin, spin, spin.

And then claim that a fact is spin. You are better than that slade.

 

[FA_Q2]

Most pro-lifers forget to mention it is personhood they are pro because that means they would have to define what it means to be a person and that inevitably leads back to religion​

Still false - that is the pro choice argument trying to force its precepts on a pro life position. A pro life position recognized the sanctity of HUMAN life. Pro choice wants to divide that human life up into a part that is expendable and part that is not.

And none of that requires a religious precept.

A fertilized egg maybe human but every other cell in my body is also human. Why give one cell more legal rights than any cell?

Why should I give your collection of cells any legal rights at all then?

At some point we have to recognize and protect peoples rights. The left seems to want to place that marker on when your are born and the right when you are conceived. No matter when you think that those rights should be protected is irrelevant to what I stated - at zero time is the fetus part of the mothers body. At conception, that is a unique and wholly separate human.

I don't trust government with control over anyone's body so I do not support making abortion illegal. Abortion until birth is extremely abhorrent though and legal abortion should not, IMHO, extend past the first trimester.

 

[Moonglow]

Abortion isn't the way of the world.

It's the way of the liberty-minded world.

Muslim theocracies, third world hellholes and Trump states try to ban abortion. The commonality among them is a hatred of liberty.

Where there is no abortion they sell their kids onto who knows what sort of devilry..

 

[Slade3200]

missing the fact that many others don’t view embryos in their early stages of development as independent humans, they view them as a piece of a females body and respect her right to decide what to do about it.

That is not a 'fact' - that is a blatantly false position that is used to insulate one from the position that they actually support.

There is not a single definition of life in any scientific measure that even comes close to defining a fetus as 'part' of the mothers body.

I do not really have any issues with the right to chose position. I have a massive problem with the blatant hypocrisy, lies and self delusions that a significant portion of those that support that position use to justify it to themselves.

Easy spin master. I didn’t say anything about science or definitions, I said many people believe. That is not a lie it is a fact. Most people I know including myself feel this way so I know it from first hand experience

I don't care how they feel and I provided exactly zero spin.

How you 'feel' about it is irrelevant. Those are simple facts.

When my post is specifically about what people believe then “feelings” are relevant and when you respond with science and definitions that is spin as it’s not addressing what I actually said.

Stating that you said nothing about science but that you 'believe' falsehoods does not excuse the fact that they are falsehoods. What you are trying to do is the actual spin here. You did not even challenge that the position was false - you ignore that it is false because you 'view' it as true.

Spin, spin, spin.

And then claim that a fact is spin. You are better than that slade.

This discussion wasn’t about science and definitions it was about factors impacting abortion. The OP made a financial argument and brought up human sacrifice. I brought up other social, economic and moral factors that are involved with abortions. I can guarantee you that many people do not view abortions the same as human sacrifice or as killing babies. Whether you think that science agrees or not doesn’t really impact my point.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

If scientists found a clump of cells in space it's called life, if its a baby in the womb, its called a blob.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

That is not a 'fact' - that is a blatantly false position that is used to insulate one from the position that they actually support.

There is not a single definition of life in any scientific measure that even comes close to defining a fetus as 'part' of the mothers body.

I do not really have any issues with the right to chose position. I have a massive problem with the blatant hypocrisy, lies and self delusions that a significant portion of those that support that position use to justify it to themselves.

Easy spin master. I didn’t say anything about science or definitions, I said many people believe. That is not a lie it is a fact. Most people I know including myself feel this way so I know it from first hand experience

I don't care how they feel and I provided exactly zero spin.

How you 'feel' about it is irrelevant. Those are simple facts.

When my post is specifically about what people believe then “feelings” are relevant and when you respond with science and definitions that is spin as it’s not addressing what I actually said.

Stating that you said nothing about science but that you 'believe' falsehoods does not excuse the fact that they are falsehoods. What you are trying to do is the actual spin here. You did not even challenge that the position was false - you ignore that it is false because you 'view' it as true.

Spin, spin, spin.

And then claim that a fact is spin. You are better than that slade.

This discussion wasn’t about science and definitions it was about factors impacting abortion. The OP made a financial argument and brought up human sacrifice. I brought up other social, economic and moral factors that are involved with abortions. I can guarantee you that many people do not view abortions the same as human sacrifice or as killing babies. Whether you think that science agrees or not doesn’t really impact my point.

It doesn't matter what their changing compass says, it is murder.

 

[Slade3200]

If scientists found a clump of cells in space it's called life, if its a baby in the womb, its called a blob.

A flower is also life but people who pick flowers aren’t called murderers. Come on, you know there’s more to the conversation than cells in space.

 

[Dana7360]

Yup. In a perfect world, that would be 100% of the time. It is not a perfect world.

because it's only 99.997% of the time?

Only .003% of sex winds up in an unwanted pregnancy? Is that what you're saying?

No .Obviously not.

I used the number satirically, but it referred to the number where pregnancy could not have been prevented.


Have you ever heard of rape, dearry?

No method is 100%. So there's that. There is also human error, spontaneity, alcohol, etc. The Pill covers the bases the best but not everyone can take the Pill. I was one of them, so i know how much fun the alternatives are. I tried most of them.

I have heard that most rapes do not result in pregnancy due to the trauma involved. But you folks sure love bringing up rape in every scenario, don't you?

I'm so sorry but what you heard isn't correct.

Here's the truth.

Rape-related pregnancy: estimates and descriptive characteristics from a national sample of women. - PubMed - NCBI

Rape-related pregnancy: estimates and descriptive characteristics from a national sample of women.
Holmes MM1, Resnick HS, Kilpatrick DG, Best CL.
Author information

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
We attempted to determine the national rape-related pregnancy rate and provide descriptive characteristics of pregnancies that result from rape.

STUDY DESIGN:
A national probability sample of 4008 adult American women took part in a 3-year longitudinal survey that assessed the prevalence and incidence of rape and related physical and mental health outcomes.

RESULTS:
The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator. Only 11.7% of these victims received immediate medical attention after the assault, and 47.1% received no medical attention related to the rape. A total 32.4% of these victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had already entered the second trimester; 32.2% opted to keep the infant whereas 50% underwent abortion and 5.9% placed the infant for adoption; an additional 11.8% had spontaneous abortion.

CONCLUSIONS:
Rape-related pregnancy occurs with significant frequency. It is a cause of many unwanted pregnancies and is closely linked with family and domestic violence. As we address the epidemic of unintended pregnancies in the United States, greater attention and effort should be aimed at preventing and identifying unwanted pregnancies that result from sexual victimization.

 

[The Purge]

Ask yourself WHO MAKES MONEY OFF ABORTION....Let me point out PP government revenue (such as Medicaid reimbursements) was $528 million in 2014!

Total Contributions from PP to federal candidates
(99% to Democrats, 0% to Republicans) total $533,205

Need we wonder WHY PP is the SACRED COW of DemonRATS?....OR ARE YOU ABNORMALS THAT STUPID!!!

 

[alang1216]

A fertilized egg maybe human but every other cell in my body is also human. Why give one cell more legal rights than any cell?

Why should I give your collection of cells any legal rights at all then?

At some point we have to recognize and protect peoples rights. The left seems to want to place that marker on when your are born and the right when you are conceived. No matter when you think that those rights should be protected is irrelevant to what I stated - at zero time is the fetus part of the mothers body. At conception, that is a unique and wholly separate human.

I don't trust government with control over anyone's body so I do not support making abortion illegal. Abortion until birth is extremely abhorrent though and legal abortion should not, IMHO, extend past the first trimester.

My collection of cells is more than the sum of it's parts (or so I like to believe), in other words a human being or person. No single cell of mine is a person.

On this "I do not support making abortion illegal. Abortion until birth is extremely abhorrent though and legal abortion should not, IMHO, extend past the first trimester" we agree with the caveat "except in extraordinary circumstances".

 

[alang1216]

Ask yourself WHO MAKES MONEY OFF ABORTION....Let me point out PP government revenue (such as Medicaid reimbursements) was $528 million in 2014!

Total Contributions from PP to federal candidates
(99% to Democrats, 0% to Republicans) total $533,205

Need we wonder WHY PP is the SACRED COW of DemonRATS?....OR ARE YOU ABNORMALS THAT STUPID!!!

PP must be pretty stupid because:

In U.S. politics, the Hyde Amendment is a legislative provision barring the use of federal funds to pay for abortion except to save the life of the woman, or if the pregnancy arises from incest or rape.​

 

[The Purge]

Ask yourself WHO MAKES MONEY OFF ABORTION....Let me point out PP government revenue (such as Medicaid reimbursements) was $528 million in 2014!

Total Contributions from PP to federal candidates
(99% to Democrats, 0% to Republicans) total $533,205

Need we wonder WHY PP is the SACRED COW of DemonRATS?....OR ARE YOU ABNORMALS THAT STUPID!!!

PP must be pretty stupid because:

In U.S. politics, the Hyde Amendment is a legislative provision barring the use of federal funds to pay for abortion except to save the life of the woman, or if the pregnancy arises from incest or rape.​

Right...LOLOLOLOL!!!

I guess you have not seen all those undercover videos about finances, selling baby parts, and promoting genocide of the black race, as a way of making MORE MONEY!

Planned Parenthood executive who 'wanted a Lamborghini' caught haggling over baby body ...
Washington Times › news › apr
Apr 26, 2017 · Video: Planned Parenthood exec who 'wanted a Lamborghini' ... Mary Gatter, president of the medical directors' council at the

 

[basquebromance]

Democrats believe killing babies is more moral than building a wall. Walls don’t kill. They just redirect people towards legal means of entering the country. Abortion literally stops a beating heart. Miss me with that “Democrat morality”

 

[Natural Citizen]

They don't get the support they need in those situations.

If I have a dirty car and some cat notices it says, hey man, you need to wash that car of yours, see how clean my car is? it's gonna get me thinking about that dirty car of mine. And when the shame of it all gets to me and I find my way to the car wash and I'm met face to face with the guy who works at the car wash, he's gonna tell me the car needs a good wash and wax. He's gonna tell me that other cat was right about it all along.