Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[Asclepias]

No one cares about 'mexico' money at the moment . If up to me i'd rather spend your money Ace . We can punish 'mexico' later if'n we like Ace .

Plenty of people care that Drumpf conned his idiot supporters. Theres no need to punish Mexico if they are going to willingly cut a check like Drumpf claimed they would. Now if he has this in the form of a promissory note then we can punish Mexico.

Mexico's economy is less than 1/10 the size of the US economy. The entire budget for Mexico would be little more than a rounding error in the US budget. The chance of Mexico paying for a 35 billion dollar wall that they wouldn't even own is about zero. Trump says what he thinks his supporters want to hear. Any relationship to the truth is purely coincidental.

Thats pretty much what I thought when I heard that idiot gibbon say Mexico was going to pay for the wall. You can imagine my surprise when Drumpfs supporters actually believed him. Thats when I knew stupid is not just an airborne disease. It affects digital networks as well.

To be honest, we don't care who pays for it. After all, what Trump originally asked for was half of what we spend on food stamps every single year. We were not obsessed with who was going to pay for it, only the leftists are now. We were sold that there would be a wall.

Hey, you guys bought the BS that nobody making less than 250K a year would see a tax increase of any kind. And what was the first thing Ears did once he invaded the White House? He instituted a huge sin tax; a tax that mostly affects the poor and middle-class. Afterwards, he got a bill passed that kept income tax refunds of people that didn't have health insurance, again, a tax that only affected the poor and middle-class.

But now you complain that Mexico is not giving us the 5 billion dollars we want, and Congress has to fund it instead? People in glass houses................

I know you dont care who pays for it now. I'm not complaining about Mexico not giving us 5B for the wall even though the wall is going to 7 times that much, I am laughing at you idiots that thought Drumpf was going to get Mexico to pay anything at all.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No one cares about 'mexico' money at the moment . If up to me i'd rather spend your money Ace . We can punish 'mexico' later if'n we like Ace .

Plenty of people care that Drumpf conned his idiot supporters. Theres no need to punish Mexico if they are going to willingly cut a check like Drumpf claimed they would. Now if he has this in the form of a promissory note then we can punish Mexico.

Mexico's economy is less than 1/10 the size of the US economy. The entire budget for Mexico would be little more than a rounding error in the US budget. The chance of Mexico paying for a 35 billion dollar wall that they wouldn't even own is about zero. Trump says what he thinks his supporters want to hear. Any relationship to the truth is purely coincidental.

Thats pretty much what I thought when I heard that idiot gibbon say Mexico was going to pay for the wall. You can imagine my surprise when Drumpfs supporters actually believed him. Thats when I knew stupid is not just an airborne disease. It affects digital networks as well.

To be honest, we don't care who pays for it. After all, what Trump originally asked for was half of what we spend on food stamps every single year. We were not obsessed with who was going to pay for it, only the leftists are now. We were sold that there would be a wall.

Hey, you guys bought the BS that nobody making less than 250K a year would see a tax increase of any kind. And what was the first thing Ears did once he invaded the White House? He instituted a huge sin tax; a tax that mostly affects the poor and middle-class. Afterwards, he got a bill passed that kept income tax refunds of people that didn't have health insurance, again, a tax that only affected the poor and middle-class.

But now you complain that Mexico is not giving us the 5 billion dollars we want, and Congress has to fund it instead? People in glass houses................

I know you dont care who pays for it now. I'm not complaining about Mexico not giving us 5B for the wall even though the wall is going to 7 times that much, I am laughing at you idiots that thought Drumpf was going to get Mexico to pay anything at all.

And we don't know that he won't using other methods. Who pays for it was not why we elected him. We elected him to get it built. If he does, then it's irrelevant who pays for it. He kept his promise of doing it.

 

[Asclepias]

Plenty of people care that Drumpf conned his idiot supporters. Theres no need to punish Mexico if they are going to willingly cut a check like Drumpf claimed they would. Now if he has this in the form of a promissory note then we can punish Mexico.

Mexico's economy is less than 1/10 the size of the US economy. The entire budget for Mexico would be little more than a rounding error in the US budget. The chance of Mexico paying for a 35 billion dollar wall that they wouldn't even own is about zero. Trump says what he thinks his supporters want to hear. Any relationship to the truth is purely coincidental.

Thats pretty much what I thought when I heard that idiot gibbon say Mexico was going to pay for the wall. You can imagine my surprise when Drumpfs supporters actually believed him. Thats when I knew stupid is not just an airborne disease. It affects digital networks as well.

To be honest, we don't care who pays for it. After all, what Trump originally asked for was half of what we spend on food stamps every single year. We were not obsessed with who was going to pay for it, only the leftists are now. We were sold that there would be a wall.

Hey, you guys bought the BS that nobody making less than 250K a year would see a tax increase of any kind. And what was the first thing Ears did once he invaded the White House? He instituted a huge sin tax; a tax that mostly affects the poor and middle-class. Afterwards, he got a bill passed that kept income tax refunds of people that didn't have health insurance, again, a tax that only affected the poor and middle-class.

But now you complain that Mexico is not giving us the 5 billion dollars we want, and Congress has to fund it instead? People in glass houses................

I know you dont care who pays for it now. I'm not complaining about Mexico not giving us 5B for the wall even though the wall is going to 7 times that much, I am laughing at you idiots that thought Drumpf was going to get Mexico to pay anything at all.

And we don't know that he won't using other methods. Who pays for it was not why we elected him. We elected him to get it built. If he does, then it's irrelevant who pays for it. He kept his promise of doing it.

You think money is the only thing keeping the wall from being built? Boy youre naive. If that was the case the repub controlled congress would have already given Drumpf his budget.

 

[Yarddog]

A- Cost prohibitive
B- Won't work
C- It's racist
D- It would reduce those successfully crossing the border
E- None of the Above

The machine benefits by not having a wall. Business (Republicans) get their cheap labor and (Democrats) get the votes

You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours

There is no excuse for the Republicans not funding the wall.

-Geaux

The only problem I see with the wall is it may affect migratory animals. they may have to add special openings for the critters

 

[Yarddog]

Plenty of people care that Drumpf conned his idiot supporters. Theres no need to punish Mexico if they are going to willingly cut a check like Drumpf claimed they would. Now if he has this in the form of a promissory note then we can punish Mexico.

Mexico's economy is less than 1/10 the size of the US economy. The entire budget for Mexico would be little more than a rounding error in the US budget. The chance of Mexico paying for a 35 billion dollar wall that they wouldn't even own is about zero. Trump says what he thinks his supporters want to hear. Any relationship to the truth is purely coincidental.

Thats pretty much what I thought when I heard that idiot gibbon say Mexico was going to pay for the wall. You can imagine my surprise when Drumpfs supporters actually believed him. Thats when I knew stupid is not just an airborne disease. It affects digital networks as well.

To be honest, we don't care who pays for it. After all, what Trump originally asked for was half of what we spend on food stamps every single year. We were not obsessed with who was going to pay for it, only the leftists are now. We were sold that there would be a wall.

Hey, you guys bought the BS that nobody making less than 250K a year would see a tax increase of any kind. And what was the first thing Ears did once he invaded the White House? He instituted a huge sin tax; a tax that mostly affects the poor and middle-class. Afterwards, he got a bill passed that kept income tax refunds of people that didn't have health insurance, again, a tax that only affected the poor and middle-class.

But now you complain that Mexico is not giving us the 5 billion dollars we want, and Congress has to fund it instead? People in glass houses................

I know you dont care who pays for it now. I'm not complaining about Mexico not giving us 5B for the wall even though the wall is going to 7 times that much, I am laughing at you idiots that thought Drumpf was going to get Mexico to pay anything at all.

And we don't know that he won't using other methods. Who pays for it was not why we elected him. We elected him to get it built. If he does, then it's irrelevant who pays for it. He kept his promise of doing it.

The government could sell bonds to pay for the wall perhaps.

 

[Flopper]

Mexico's economy is less than 1/10 the size of the US economy. The entire budget for Mexico would be little more than a rounding error in the US budget. The chance of Mexico paying for a 35 billion dollar wall that they wouldn't even own is about zero. Trump says what he thinks his supporters want to hear. Any relationship to the truth is purely coincidental.

Thats pretty much what I thought when I heard that idiot gibbon say Mexico was going to pay for the wall. You can imagine my surprise when Drumpfs supporters actually believed him. Thats when I knew stupid is not just an airborne disease. It affects digital networks as well.

To be honest, we don't care who pays for it. After all, what Trump originally asked for was half of what we spend on food stamps every single year. We were not obsessed with who was going to pay for it, only the leftists are now. We were sold that there would be a wall.

Hey, you guys bought the BS that nobody making less than 250K a year would see a tax increase of any kind. And what was the first thing Ears did once he invaded the White House? He instituted a huge sin tax; a tax that mostly affects the poor and middle-class. Afterwards, he got a bill passed that kept income tax refunds of people that didn't have health insurance, again, a tax that only affected the poor and middle-class.

But now you complain that Mexico is not giving us the 5 billion dollars we want, and Congress has to fund it instead? People in glass houses................

I know you dont care who pays for it now. I'm not complaining about Mexico not giving us 5B for the wall even though the wall is going to 7 times that much, I am laughing at you idiots that thought Drumpf was going to get Mexico to pay anything at all.

And we don't know that he won't using other methods. Who pays for it was not why we elected him. We elected him to get it built. If he does, then it's irrelevant who pays for it. He kept his promise of doing it.

The government could sell bonds to pay for the wall perhaps.

That's how we finance spending now. We sell treasury bonds.

 

[oreo]

Anyone that wants to pay for the WALL step up,, and break out your credit card.. Someone has formed a gofundthewall page on FACEBOOK. So put up or shut up. Here is the link and you can read all about it. It's raised a 162K already, so only about 58 BILLION more to go--
24Hrs After GoFundMe Started To Pay For Wall – Americans Give Trump HUGE Christmas Gift

But before you donate--just a warning, you might want to watch this 2-1/2 minute video and consider a few things.

The ins and outs of U.S.-Mexico border tunnels
They found 240 of these in the San Diego region alone, and they know there's more they haven't found.

And most Americans don't want any new border walls.
Poll: Most Americans against constructing more border walls

 

[Flopper]

No one cares about 'mexico' money at the moment . If up to me i'd rather spend your money Ace . We can punish 'mexico' later if'n we like Ace .

Plenty of people care that Drumpf conned his idiot supporters. Theres no need to punish Mexico if they are going to willingly cut a check like Drumpf claimed they would. Now if he has this in the form of a promissory note then we can punish Mexico.

Mexico's economy is less than 1/10 the size of the US economy. The entire budget for Mexico would be little more than a rounding error in the US budget. The chance of Mexico paying for a 35 billion dollar wall that they wouldn't even own is about zero. Trump says what he thinks his supporters want to hear. Any relationship to the truth is purely coincidental.

Thats pretty much what I thought when I heard that idiot gibbon say Mexico was going to pay for the wall. You can imagine my surprise when Drumpfs supporters actually believed him. Thats when I knew stupid is not just an airborne disease. It affects digital networks as well.

To be honest, we don't care who pays for it. After all, what Trump originally asked for was half of what we spend on food stamps every single year. We were not obsessed with who was going to pay for it, only the leftists are now. We were sold that there would be a wall.

Hey, you guys bought the BS that nobody making less than 250K a year would see a tax increase of any kind. And what was the first thing Ears did once he invaded the White House? He instituted a huge sin tax; a tax that mostly affects the poor and middle-class. Afterwards, he got a bill passed that kept income tax refunds of people that didn't have health insurance, again, a tax that only affected the poor and middle-class.

But now you complain that Mexico is not giving us the 5 billion dollars we want, and Congress has to fund it instead? People in glass houses................

Regardless of the revenue source, congress must fund it. The president can't just look under a rock and say, Look, I found 35 billion dollars. I'm going to building a wall."
Revenue for any project is always an issue but the overriding issue is do we want it, not what it cost. 70% of the American public say the wall is not a priority and over half say it should not build. There is opposition in congress among republicans not just democrats.

We should not built the wall, not because of the cost but because it's not practical. Even the most optimistic estimates put the time to complete the wall as 15 years, but 20 would be more realistic since a republican congress has never put any money in budget for it. If you think that's nuts, remember it took 6 years to complete 500 miles of a fence and the fencing project was far simpler than the Trump wall and had much less opposition. Long before the wall is finished, immigration, national priorities, and ideology of the parties will have shifted along with funding of the wall.

When we enter into a project of this size we should be looking at the future, not the past. The number of illegal immigrants in the US have been falling since 2008. With economic improvements in Mexico, particular the growing shortage of farm labor, it is quite likely that the illegal immigration problem will solve itself.

 

[The Purge]

 

[The Purge]

 

[Asclepias]

They sorta work there because they have guards, surveillance, and they dont cover thousands of miles that no one is watching.

 

[danielpalos]

It's stupid because at best..half of illegals come over the border.

So if the wall ever got built...at what...40 billion? 50 once all the land is taken by eminent domain...it would have to be 100% effective to even stop HALF of the illegals coming here.. And it WON'T be 100% effective.

Not even close

Yup, and we don't even want to stop half of them...dumbass.

where is the express wall building power?

 

[danielpalos]

It's stupid because at best..half of illegals come over the border.

So if the wall ever got built...at what...40 billion? 50 once all the land is taken by eminent domain...it would have to be 100% effective to even stop HALF of the illegals coming here.. And it WON'T be 100% effective.

Not even close

Yup, and we don't even want to stop half of them...dumbass.

Your board name does not match your response.

We have an immigration problem. We could resolve it without a wall. We could resolve the pretexts for building a wall AND address the 60 percent of foreigners that are not affected by the all ALONG WITH those from Mexico and south of there.

Yup, sounds like one heck of a plan.

The founders did it.

Really?! Did they also have to deal with thousands of illegals crossing the border expecting hand-outs?

we gave them free wars on crime, drugs, and terror. refugees is our reward.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

It's stupid because at best..half of illegals come over the border.

So if the wall ever got built...at what...40 billion? 50 once all the land is taken by eminent domain...it would have to be 100% effective to even stop HALF of the illegals coming here.. And it WON'T be 100% effective.

Not even close

Yup, and we don't even want to stop half of them...dumbass.

Your board name does not match your response.

We have an immigration problem. We could resolve it without a wall. We could resolve the pretexts for building a wall AND address the 60 percent of foreigners that are not affected by the all ALONG WITH those from Mexico and south of there.

Yup, sounds like one heck of a plan.

The founders did it.

Really?! Did they also have to deal with thousands of illegals crossing the border expecting hand-outs?

If people are crossing the border and getting any handouts, that is YOUR fault.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

It's difficult to do which is why I started out on this thread asking if it were possible that both the left and the right are hoodwinking the people. What if this discussion is a strategy ploy to con you into acquiescing all of your rights in lieu of a false promise to get rid of undocumented foreigners.

My observation is that the symptoms people complain about and the reason they support the wall are not one and the same. The rationale or default position of those in favor of a wall has to do with border security. Mike Huckabee, on his most recent tv show, began with the analogy of WalMart having cameras looking at you every moment from the time you arrive until you leave. Of course there are those cameras and listening devices on cop cars that can track your every move.

The problem for me is that some are giving up our Liberty and finding excuses to trash the Constitution just to keep foreigners out. It won't work. We'd be better off admitting that and then work to get those people to become Guest Workers with no expectation of citizenship or welfare. At the same time we have to find innovative ways to get Americans back into the workforce which will diminish any perceived need for the foreigners to be here in the first place.

Let me explain to you what's really going on here. I've said this repeatedly, so those who read my theory can just skip over it.

The Democrat party has become the anti-white party. Why? Most of the Democrats are white themselves! The reason is power. The Democrats long term goal is to have a one-party government with little to no opposition. So how could they accomplish this?

Simple: every other group outside of whites vote a majority Democrat. The Jewish vote majority Democrat. The middle-eastern people vote a majority Democrat. The Asians vote Democrat. This is especially important of the Hispanic community. Blacks? Forget about it.

Once the Democrat party wipes out whites (not in a genocidal way, but a political way) they will have the ability to have this one-party government for eternity. This is why they are working tirelessly to make whites a minority in this country for the first time since our founding.

Think about it. Why is the wall such a threat to them so to the point they are willing to shutdown the government? Why are they (and their activist judges) fighting to keep sanctuary cities and now states? Why do they want to eliminate ICE? Why do they provide aid and comfort to illegals such as giving them drivers license?

The point is, you can't compromise with people trying to wipe you off the planet. It's a very similar situation to the Palestinians and the Jewish. There is no compromise when one side wants the other side totally eliminated.

I appreciate your theory. I agree with a lot of it. You have just left a few important players out of the game, so let me share my observations with you and you might want to consider them in addition to what you're thinking.

We are both agreed that this is about POWER. Rather than to fight for power, it makes better sense to flip your opposition. In order to do that you employ Hegelian Dialectics: Thesis + Anti-thesis = Synthesis. Or, in simple English you create a problem (Thesis) and then generate the hysteria and chaos surrounding the problem you created (Anti-Thesis) and you offer up to the people your pre-planned solutions that you had already thought up. They choose the most obvious "solution" (Synthesis.)

As stated, the facts are that manning the border and border security were started by a neo-nazi turned Klansman, David Duke. The self proclaimed Minutemen (who were later exposed as nazis) revived the border security issue. The genesis of the wall idea was promoted by Bill Clinton before it was adopted by the Tea Party Republicans and then Donald Trump.

There is a commonality between Democrats, socialists, National Socialists, and globalists. They want POWER. There is this delusional belief that they can erect a wall and control those within that wall. The reality is, the National Socialists cannot control those inside the wall because most people are non-white OR they hate their own race. The Democrats, socialists, and globalists on the other hand CAN co-exist.

Today, the posterity of the founders who fought, bled and died in order to create our constitutional Republic no longer exist as a political entity. Constitutionalists gave way to conservatism which, in turn, became the Tea Party Republicans. Tea Party Republicans buy into the socialist proposition that building a wall around America will benefit border security. Those people cannot and will not understand that a wall will NOT increase border security. Why?

Study the genesis of this discussion. Manning the border started out by a National Socialist; the wall idea is consistent with the message that Bill Clinton promoted during his presidency. When the Tea Party Republicans argue for a wall, they cite the immigration laws of Mexico; the wall in China (which is communist), or some other third world cesspool and / or nations at war. At the heart of the discussion, those who would have been constitutionalists are now buying into the proposition that only "citizens" have rights. In the view of Democrats, socialists, and National Socialists - along with globalists, man derives his rights from government as opposed to natural, inherent, God given, unalienable, absolute Rights.

If you could build a wall around America and if we all accept the proposition that government grants us our rights, then the non-whites will outvote the whites and continue the anti-white immigration that results in non-whites being wiped out, as a people, but more importantly as a culture of people who live in a constitutional Republic with Liberty. The whites, for whatever reason, cannot or will not delineate between unalienable Rights and citizenship. Neither can those who would have been constitutionalists understand that the rest of the world despises us, as a people and consequently, hate the form of government our forefathers created.

I think you substituted the word "hate" for jealousy. Few people actually hate the US. After all, who is the most giving to foreign nations than the US? I'm not just talking about government aid, but private donations to charities and organizations.

Jealous I'm more likely to believe. There are few places in the world where a nobody can become a somebody. For instance perhaps the French may say they hate the US because our gasoline is 2/3 cheaper than their gasoline, but again, it's envy and not hate.

As far as the wall is concerned, we know it would work. How? By other places that did (or now have) walls. While it doesn't solve 100% of the problems in most cases, it greatly slows it down. After all, from time to time, even prisoners break out of jail.

Is there something I think that would work just as good if not better than a wall? Yes there is. Make being in the US illegally a first degree felony carrying a minimum of five years in prison. That would solve our border problem as well as our expired VISA problems.

The Bible says that "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." James 1 : 8

You sound much like the former conservative that unwittingly adopted a socialist point of view. If other countries are jealous of the United States, it boggles the mind that you would make an argument for something that supposedly "worked" in another country.

Walls work for communists in communist countries. They work in dictatorships. They work temporarily when you are at war. But they will not work with our form of government. For that reason, you cannot show an example of a wall being built that culminated in a free society.

Israel is not a free society? The United States is not a free society?

Just because countries with other forms of government are different than ours doesn't mean they don't have good ideas. After all, the left is constantly bringing up how great Europe is because of gun bans and socialized medicine. They boast how the government restricts massive wealth for individuals.

True story: Many years ago some middle-easterners bought a closed down Dairy Mart and opened up their own convenience store around the corner from my house. I always patronize the little guy, and one night when I walked in, the cops were walking out.

I asked the young clerk if everything was alright? He said some drunk came into the store, stole some cigarettes off the counter and left. He told me the police advised him if the guy comes back, to give them a call and they'll kick him out. He said this is why the US has such a theft problem.

He went on to explain how where he was from, there was virtually no theft. People have outdoor stands and sell their products on the street. They have picnic tables set up so that customers could rest. He said that if a woman lay her purse on a table and mindlessly left, people would actually cross the street to be nowhere near it.

He said where he was from, if you got caught stealing, the police came and chopped off your hand. Steal again, the other hand comes off, and I don't mean in a hospital. There is no third time. The very few people with no hand are shunned from society; at times are attacked and beaten up. A thief is the lowest from of life in their society.

Am I saying that's what we should do here? No, but just pointing out that a strong enough deterrent has results. Here, criminals steal police cars and rescue squads and little happens to them.

The Israelis are in a protracted WAR with their neighbors - just like I told you earlier. You want to try again?

America is in the shape it's in because of adopting the socialist policies of foreign nations. BEFORE we changed the original interpretation of the Constitution, our crime rates were quite low as well.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Let me explain to you what's really going on here. I've said this repeatedly, so those who read my theory can just skip over it.

The Democrat party has become the anti-white party. Why? Most of the Democrats are white themselves! The reason is power. The Democrats long term goal is to have a one-party government with little to no opposition. So how could they accomplish this?

Simple: every other group outside of whites vote a majority Democrat. The Jewish vote majority Democrat. The middle-eastern people vote a majority Democrat. The Asians vote Democrat. This is especially important of the Hispanic community. Blacks? Forget about it.

Once the Democrat party wipes out whites (not in a genocidal way, but a political way) they will have the ability to have this one-party government for eternity. This is why they are working tirelessly to make whites a minority in this country for the first time since our founding.

Think about it. Why is the wall such a threat to them so to the point they are willing to shutdown the government? Why are they (and their activist judges) fighting to keep sanctuary cities and now states? Why do they want to eliminate ICE? Why do they provide aid and comfort to illegals such as giving them drivers license?

The point is, you can't compromise with people trying to wipe you off the planet. It's a very similar situation to the Palestinians and the Jewish. There is no compromise when one side wants the other side totally eliminated.

I appreciate your theory. I agree with a lot of it. You have just left a few important players out of the game, so let me share my observations with you and you might want to consider them in addition to what you're thinking.

We are both agreed that this is about POWER. Rather than to fight for power, it makes better sense to flip your opposition. In order to do that you employ Hegelian Dialectics: Thesis + Anti-thesis = Synthesis. Or, in simple English you create a problem (Thesis) and then generate the hysteria and chaos surrounding the problem you created (Anti-Thesis) and you offer up to the people your pre-planned solutions that you had already thought up. They choose the most obvious "solution" (Synthesis.)

As stated, the facts are that manning the border and border security were started by a neo-nazi turned Klansman, David Duke. The self proclaimed Minutemen (who were later exposed as nazis) revived the border security issue. The genesis of the wall idea was promoted by Bill Clinton before it was adopted by the Tea Party Republicans and then Donald Trump.

There is a commonality between Democrats, socialists, National Socialists, and globalists. They want POWER. There is this delusional belief that they can erect a wall and control those within that wall. The reality is, the National Socialists cannot control those inside the wall because most people are non-white OR they hate their own race. The Democrats, socialists, and globalists on the other hand CAN co-exist.

Today, the posterity of the founders who fought, bled and died in order to create our constitutional Republic no longer exist as a political entity. Constitutionalists gave way to conservatism which, in turn, became the Tea Party Republicans. Tea Party Republicans buy into the socialist proposition that building a wall around America will benefit border security. Those people cannot and will not understand that a wall will NOT increase border security. Why?

Study the genesis of this discussion. Manning the border started out by a National Socialist; the wall idea is consistent with the message that Bill Clinton promoted during his presidency. When the Tea Party Republicans argue for a wall, they cite the immigration laws of Mexico; the wall in China (which is communist), or some other third world cesspool and / or nations at war. At the heart of the discussion, those who would have been constitutionalists are now buying into the proposition that only "citizens" have rights. In the view of Democrats, socialists, and National Socialists - along with globalists, man derives his rights from government as opposed to natural, inherent, God given, unalienable, absolute Rights.

If you could build a wall around America and if we all accept the proposition that government grants us our rights, then the non-whites will outvote the whites and continue the anti-white immigration that results in non-whites being wiped out, as a people, but more importantly as a culture of people who live in a constitutional Republic with Liberty. The whites, for whatever reason, cannot or will not delineate between unalienable Rights and citizenship. Neither can those who would have been constitutionalists understand that the rest of the world despises us, as a people and consequently, hate the form of government our forefathers created.

I think you substituted the word "hate" for jealousy. Few people actually hate the US. After all, who is the most giving to foreign nations than the US? I'm not just talking about government aid, but private donations to charities and organizations.

Jealous I'm more likely to believe. There are few places in the world where a nobody can become a somebody. For instance perhaps the French may say they hate the US because our gasoline is 2/3 cheaper than their gasoline, but again, it's envy and not hate.

As far as the wall is concerned, we know it would work. How? By other places that did (or now have) walls. While it doesn't solve 100% of the problems in most cases, it greatly slows it down. After all, from time to time, even prisoners break out of jail.

Is there something I think that would work just as good if not better than a wall? Yes there is. Make being in the US illegally a first degree felony carrying a minimum of five years in prison. That would solve our border problem as well as our expired VISA problems.

The Bible says that "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." James 1 : 8

You sound much like the former conservative that unwittingly adopted a socialist point of view. If other countries are jealous of the United States, it boggles the mind that you would make an argument for something that supposedly "worked" in another country.

Walls work for communists in communist countries. They work in dictatorships. They work temporarily when you are at war. But they will not work with our form of government. For that reason, you cannot show an example of a wall being built that culminated in a free society.

Israel is not a free society? The United States is not a free society?

Just because countries with other forms of government are different than ours doesn't mean they don't have good ideas. After all, the left is constantly bringing up how great Europe is because of gun bans and socialized medicine. They boast how the government restricts massive wealth for individuals.

True story: Many years ago some middle-easterners bought a closed down Dairy Mart and opened up their own convenience store around the corner from my house. I always patronize the little guy, and one night when I walked in, the cops were walking out.

I asked the young clerk if everything was alright? He said some drunk came into the store, stole some cigarettes off the counter and left. He told me the police advised him if the guy comes back, to give them a call and they'll kick him out. He said this is why the US has such a theft problem.

He went on to explain how where he was from, there was virtually no theft. People have outdoor stands and sell their products on the street. They have picnic tables set up so that customers could rest. He said that if a woman lay her purse on a table and mindlessly left, people would actually cross the street to be nowhere near it.

He said where he was from, if you got caught stealing, the police came and chopped off your hand. Steal again, the other hand comes off, and I don't mean in a hospital. There is no third time. The very few people with no hand are shunned from society; at times are attacked and beaten up. A thief is the lowest from of life in their society.

Am I saying that's what we should do here? No, but just pointing out that a strong enough deterrent has results. Here, criminals steal police cars and rescue squads and little happens to them.

The Israelis are in a protracted WAR with their neighbors - just like I told you earlier. You want to try again?

America is in the shape it's in because of adopting the socialist policies of foreign nations. BEFORE we changed the original interpretation of the Constitution, our crime rates were quite low as well.

No, the Israel Palestinian thing is a conflict, not a war. If you consider that a war, then the US is at a war with SC America. And what socialist foreign policies do you speak of? What ruined our country is liberalism in general, not social programs. The removal of God from our society and replacement with guys wearing dresses and kissing each other in the park in front of our children.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No one cares about 'mexico' money at the moment . If up to me i'd rather spend your money Ace . We can punish 'mexico' later if'n we like Ace .

Plenty of people care that Drumpf conned his idiot supporters. Theres no need to punish Mexico if they are going to willingly cut a check like Drumpf claimed they would. Now if he has this in the form of a promissory note then we can punish Mexico.

Mexico's economy is less than 1/10 the size of the US economy. The entire budget for Mexico would be little more than a rounding error in the US budget. The chance of Mexico paying for a 35 billion dollar wall that they wouldn't even own is about zero. Trump says what he thinks his supporters want to hear. Any relationship to the truth is purely coincidental.

Thats pretty much what I thought when I heard that idiot gibbon say Mexico was going to pay for the wall. You can imagine my surprise when Drumpfs supporters actually believed him. Thats when I knew stupid is not just an airborne disease. It affects digital networks as well.

To be honest, we don't care who pays for it. After all, what Trump originally asked for was half of what we spend on food stamps every single year. We were not obsessed with who was going to pay for it, only the leftists are now. We were sold that there would be a wall.

Hey, you guys bought the BS that nobody making less than 250K a year would see a tax increase of any kind. And what was the first thing Ears did once he invaded the White House? He instituted a huge sin tax; a tax that mostly affects the poor and middle-class. Afterwards, he got a bill passed that kept income tax refunds of people that didn't have health insurance, again, a tax that only affected the poor and middle-class.

But now you complain that Mexico is not giving us the 5 billion dollars we want, and Congress has to fund it instead? People in glass houses................

Regardless of the revenue source, congress must fund it. The president can't just look under a rock and say, Look, I found 35 billion dollars. I'm going to building a wall."
Revenue for any project is always an issue but the overriding issue is do we want it, not what it cost. 70% of the American public say the wall is not a priority and over half say it should not build. There is opposition in congress among republicans not just democrats.

We should not built the wall, not because of the cost but because it's not practical. Even the most optimistic estimates put the time to complete the wall as 15 years, but 20 would be more realistic since a republican congress has never put any money in budget for it. If you think that's nuts, remember it took 6 years to complete 500 miles of a fence and the fencing project was far simpler than the Trump wall and had much less opposition. Long before the wall is finished, immigration, national priorities, and ideology of the parties will have shifted along with funding of the wall.

When we enter into a project of this size we should be looking at the future, not the past. The number of illegal immigrants in the US have been falling since 2008. With economic improvements in Mexico, particular the growing shortage of farm labor, it is quite likely that the illegal immigration problem will solve itself.

Years ago I was listening to the radio when the host was interviewing Marlo Thomas. Marlo was a 70's actress who starred in a show and the daughter of a very famous actor by the name of Danny Thomas. She was promoting her book on advancing in life. In her book she interviewed a Doctor and her path to becoming a clinician.

The Doctor said she attended college and became a teacher. After some years of teaching, she became a little depressed about the career she chose. Her father realized something was wrong, and she told him of her thoughts. So he asked what is it she'd really like to do? She said she'd really like to be a medical doctor. So he suggested that she do just that! She told her father she was stuck in this career, and by the time she'd get out of college, she would be 42 years old. He looked at her and said "Well you're going to be 42 anyway!" On her fathers advice, she became a doctor and has never been happier.

This migrant problem isn't going away anytime soon no matter what you speculate. There will always be desperate people south of us, gang members who want to get in, terrorists looking for an easy way to sneak in, and people that want to take our money and send it back home. 10 or 15 years? It's going to be 10 or 15 years no matter what we do, so there is no time like the present to get started. Because every year that wall is being built, our border becomes more secure.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Mexico's economy is less than 1/10 the size of the US economy. The entire budget for Mexico would be little more than a rounding error in the US budget. The chance of Mexico paying for a 35 billion dollar wall that they wouldn't even own is about zero. Trump says what he thinks his supporters want to hear. Any relationship to the truth is purely coincidental.

Thats pretty much what I thought when I heard that idiot gibbon say Mexico was going to pay for the wall. You can imagine my surprise when Drumpfs supporters actually believed him. Thats when I knew stupid is not just an airborne disease. It affects digital networks as well.

To be honest, we don't care who pays for it. After all, what Trump originally asked for was half of what we spend on food stamps every single year. We were not obsessed with who was going to pay for it, only the leftists are now. We were sold that there would be a wall.

Hey, you guys bought the BS that nobody making less than 250K a year would see a tax increase of any kind. And what was the first thing Ears did once he invaded the White House? He instituted a huge sin tax; a tax that mostly affects the poor and middle-class. Afterwards, he got a bill passed that kept income tax refunds of people that didn't have health insurance, again, a tax that only affected the poor and middle-class.

But now you complain that Mexico is not giving us the 5 billion dollars we want, and Congress has to fund it instead? People in glass houses................

I know you dont care who pays for it now. I'm not complaining about Mexico not giving us 5B for the wall even though the wall is going to 7 times that much, I am laughing at you idiots that thought Drumpf was going to get Mexico to pay anything at all.

And we don't know that he won't using other methods. Who pays for it was not why we elected him. We elected him to get it built. If he does, then it's irrelevant who pays for it. He kept his promise of doing it.

The government could sell bonds to pay for the wall perhaps.

When we consider what foreigners cost our government, the wall will pay for itself in a year or two. It's very rare when our government can spend money to actually save money in the long run.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Mexico's economy is less than 1/10 the size of the US economy. The entire budget for Mexico would be little more than a rounding error in the US budget. The chance of Mexico paying for a 35 billion dollar wall that they wouldn't even own is about zero. Trump says what he thinks his supporters want to hear. Any relationship to the truth is purely coincidental.

Thats pretty much what I thought when I heard that idiot gibbon say Mexico was going to pay for the wall. You can imagine my surprise when Drumpfs supporters actually believed him. Thats when I knew stupid is not just an airborne disease. It affects digital networks as well.

To be honest, we don't care who pays for it. After all, what Trump originally asked for was half of what we spend on food stamps every single year. We were not obsessed with who was going to pay for it, only the leftists are now. We were sold that there would be a wall.

Hey, you guys bought the BS that nobody making less than 250K a year would see a tax increase of any kind. And what was the first thing Ears did once he invaded the White House? He instituted a huge sin tax; a tax that mostly affects the poor and middle-class. Afterwards, he got a bill passed that kept income tax refunds of people that didn't have health insurance, again, a tax that only affected the poor and middle-class.

But now you complain that Mexico is not giving us the 5 billion dollars we want, and Congress has to fund it instead? People in glass houses................

I know you dont care who pays for it now. I'm not complaining about Mexico not giving us 5B for the wall even though the wall is going to 7 times that much, I am laughing at you idiots that thought Drumpf was going to get Mexico to pay anything at all.

And we don't know that he won't using other methods. Who pays for it was not why we elected him. We elected him to get it built. If he does, then it's irrelevant who pays for it. He kept his promise of doing it.

You think money is the only thing keeping the wall from being built? Boy youre naive. If that was the case the repub controlled congress would have already given Drumpf his budget.

You mean a budget that needs a 60 Senate seat vote?

No, this is something we can agree on: it's not about money. The Democrats are using the money as an excuse because Democrats are born dishonest. If they were honest, they'd tell us why they really don't want the wall which is they want to flood this country with immigrants and wipe out the white population.

At least I could respect their honesty then.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I appreciate your theory. I agree with a lot of it. You have just left a few important players out of the game, so let me share my observations with you and you might want to consider them in addition to what you're thinking.

We are both agreed that this is about POWER. Rather than to fight for power, it makes better sense to flip your opposition. In order to do that you employ Hegelian Dialectics: Thesis + Anti-thesis = Synthesis. Or, in simple English you create a problem (Thesis) and then generate the hysteria and chaos surrounding the problem you created (Anti-Thesis) and you offer up to the people your pre-planned solutions that you had already thought up. They choose the most obvious "solution" (Synthesis.)

As stated, the facts are that manning the border and border security were started by a neo-nazi turned Klansman, David Duke. The self proclaimed Minutemen (who were later exposed as nazis) revived the border security issue. The genesis of the wall idea was promoted by Bill Clinton before it was adopted by the Tea Party Republicans and then Donald Trump.

There is a commonality between Democrats, socialists, National Socialists, and globalists. They want POWER. There is this delusional belief that they can erect a wall and control those within that wall. The reality is, the National Socialists cannot control those inside the wall because most people are non-white OR they hate their own race. The Democrats, socialists, and globalists on the other hand CAN co-exist.

Today, the posterity of the founders who fought, bled and died in order to create our constitutional Republic no longer exist as a political entity. Constitutionalists gave way to conservatism which, in turn, became the Tea Party Republicans. Tea Party Republicans buy into the socialist proposition that building a wall around America will benefit border security. Those people cannot and will not understand that a wall will NOT increase border security. Why?

Study the genesis of this discussion. Manning the border started out by a National Socialist; the wall idea is consistent with the message that Bill Clinton promoted during his presidency. When the Tea Party Republicans argue for a wall, they cite the immigration laws of Mexico; the wall in China (which is communist), or some other third world cesspool and / or nations at war. At the heart of the discussion, those who would have been constitutionalists are now buying into the proposition that only "citizens" have rights. In the view of Democrats, socialists, and National Socialists - along with globalists, man derives his rights from government as opposed to natural, inherent, God given, unalienable, absolute Rights.

If you could build a wall around America and if we all accept the proposition that government grants us our rights, then the non-whites will outvote the whites and continue the anti-white immigration that results in non-whites being wiped out, as a people, but more importantly as a culture of people who live in a constitutional Republic with Liberty. The whites, for whatever reason, cannot or will not delineate between unalienable Rights and citizenship. Neither can those who would have been constitutionalists understand that the rest of the world despises us, as a people and consequently, hate the form of government our forefathers created.

I think you substituted the word "hate" for jealousy. Few people actually hate the US. After all, who is the most giving to foreign nations than the US? I'm not just talking about government aid, but private donations to charities and organizations.

Jealous I'm more likely to believe. There are few places in the world where a nobody can become a somebody. For instance perhaps the French may say they hate the US because our gasoline is 2/3 cheaper than their gasoline, but again, it's envy and not hate.

As far as the wall is concerned, we know it would work. How? By other places that did (or now have) walls. While it doesn't solve 100% of the problems in most cases, it greatly slows it down. After all, from time to time, even prisoners break out of jail.

Is there something I think that would work just as good if not better than a wall? Yes there is. Make being in the US illegally a first degree felony carrying a minimum of five years in prison. That would solve our border problem as well as our expired VISA problems.

The Bible says that "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." James 1 : 8

You sound much like the former conservative that unwittingly adopted a socialist point of view. If other countries are jealous of the United States, it boggles the mind that you would make an argument for something that supposedly "worked" in another country.

Walls work for communists in communist countries. They work in dictatorships. They work temporarily when you are at war. But they will not work with our form of government. For that reason, you cannot show an example of a wall being built that culminated in a free society.

Israel is not a free society? The United States is not a free society?

Just because countries with other forms of government are different than ours doesn't mean they don't have good ideas. After all, the left is constantly bringing up how great Europe is because of gun bans and socialized medicine. They boast how the government restricts massive wealth for individuals.

True story: Many years ago some middle-easterners bought a closed down Dairy Mart and opened up their own convenience store around the corner from my house. I always patronize the little guy, and one night when I walked in, the cops were walking out.

I asked the young clerk if everything was alright? He said some drunk came into the store, stole some cigarettes off the counter and left. He told me the police advised him if the guy comes back, to give them a call and they'll kick him out. He said this is why the US has such a theft problem.

He went on to explain how where he was from, there was virtually no theft. People have outdoor stands and sell their products on the street. They have picnic tables set up so that customers could rest. He said that if a woman lay her purse on a table and mindlessly left, people would actually cross the street to be nowhere near it.

He said where he was from, if you got caught stealing, the police came and chopped off your hand. Steal again, the other hand comes off, and I don't mean in a hospital. There is no third time. The very few people with no hand are shunned from society; at times are attacked and beaten up. A thief is the lowest from of life in their society.

Am I saying that's what we should do here? No, but just pointing out that a strong enough deterrent has results. Here, criminals steal police cars and rescue squads and little happens to them.

The Israelis are in a protracted WAR with their neighbors - just like I told you earlier. You want to try again?

America is in the shape it's in because of adopting the socialist policies of foreign nations. BEFORE we changed the original interpretation of the Constitution, our crime rates were quite low as well.

No, the Israel Palestinian thing is a conflict, not a war. If you consider that a war, then the US is at a war with SC America. And what socialist foreign policies do you speak of? What ruined our country is liberalism in general, not social programs. The removal of God from our society and replacement with guys wearing dresses and kissing each other in the park in front of our children.

Okay, people lobbing everything from rocks to grenades at each other is not a war. You DID say something that is very revealing, however since you interjected the Bible. In Genesis 16: 10 through 12, the Bible reads:

10 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. 11 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. 12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

That is a continuation of God's words from Genesis 3: 15 which reads:

15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

In both instances, the seed or offspring God's chosen line was to be marked with enmity (which means hostility and hatred according to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.) Mainstream Churchianity (as opposed to Christianity) mistakenly thinks that sandpit the Israelis and descendants of Ishmael bicker over is the promised land. You inadvertently admitted that it is not.

My argument has been that other than the Israelis and their war, the only countries that have employed walls are communists and dictatorships. Thank you for admitting there is nothing special about that relationship in the Middle East. Still, we do not have a relationship with our neighbors to the south marked by enmity, hatred, and hostility. Therefore, the wall would be an inappropriate response when what you have are people on BOTH sides willfully engaging in otherwise lawful pursuits.