Why is there a pope?

[norwegen]

So I was reading in Matthew 23, and verse 9 says “And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.”
It seems clear that Catholicism is a pagan religion. So now I pose the question. If we are not to perform this kind of worship, isn’t the Vatican it’s own governing body under the religion of Catholicism? We wouldn’t call our governors or officials “father”. Shouldn’t they repent?

Jesus isn't describing the Catholic Church any more than he is describing the PepsiCo Corporation, which also has a hierarchy. He's describing the kingdom. When we think of churches, we think of denominations or local congregations with staff, elders, volunteers, and rank-and-file members, which may be well and good. When we think of the church, however, we must think of the body of Christ, which lacks any hierarchy save for Christ alone. This body countenances no division, for the members support each other (1 Cor 12:25). All are citizens of God’s household without class or rank (Eph 2:19). The lowly boasts in Christ and the powerful humbles himself in Christ (Jas 1:9-10). The lion lies down with the lamb, so to speak. No one rules and no one is ruled.

Within the assemblies and denominations, though, organization is inevitable. The assemblies have shepherds (1 Pt 5:2).

 

[norwegen]

He's the head administrator over other administrators. Organizations that don't have a top executive over all the other executives, Bishops and Cardinals in this case, usually don't fare well, which is why corporations aren't run like democracies. Popes do a lot more than just sitting around waiting to walk out on a balcony and make speeches once in a while, they actively run a worldwide corporation.

And he's the head administrator over other administrators in the Catholic Church, not in the kingdom of God.

 

[Meriweather]

Do you really believe the pope has the keys to heaven? Even if Peter was succeeded, why would the one apostolic line out of 12 have that control over who goes to heaven?

In those days, when the Master of an estate had to leave for quite lengthy periods, he selected his most trusted servant to take charge of the keys. (Remember, duplicate copies of keys at that time were not readily available, if available at all.) In the absence of Master, it was the servant's responsibility to run the estate just as the Mater would. If something unforeseen happened and a decision usually made by the Master had to be made, it was the servant with the keys who would have the final say.

Jesus was simply indicating to the Apostles that in his absence, his 'estate' would be run the same as when he was here. However if in his absence, a decision had to be made, Peter had the final say. Keep in mind, the servant didn't have to come up with the answer on his own--he had lots of advisors. After listening to all, he had the responsibility of making the best decision in absence of the Master.

 

[esalla]

So I was reading in Matthew 23, and verse 9 says “And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.”
It seems clear that Catholicism is a pagan religion. So now I pose the question. If we are not to perform this kind of worship, isn’t the Vatican it’s own governing body under the religion of Catholicism? We wouldn’t call our governors or officials “father”. Shouldn’t they repent?

So you are babbling that I cant call my dad father

 

[esalla]

I do believe that you most likely called your daddy father as you got older.
That aside, the world needs a pope...if only for the pomp and circumstance, for the sheep to hold in awe. It's entertainment.

Yea the pedophiles need leadership

 

[james bond]

I think it's because some of St. Peter the Apostle's followers used Peter, i.e. after his death, to get a pope. To compare it today, it's like they said Pope lives matter.

 

[Jonathan McCreevey]

Do you really believe the pope has the keys to heaven? Even if Peter was succeeded, why would the one apostolic line out of 12 have that control over who goes to heaven?

In those days, when the Master of an estate had to leave for quite lengthy periods, he selected his most trusted servant to take charge of the keys. (Remember, duplicate copies of keys at that time were not readily available, if available at all.) In the absence of Master, it was the servant's responsibility to run the estate just as the Mater would. If something unforeseen happened and a decision usually made by the Master had to be made, it was the servant with the keys who would have the final say.

Jesus was simply indicating to the Apostles that in his absence, his 'estate' would be run the same as when he was here. However if in his absence, a decision had to be made, Peter had the final say. Keep in mind, the servant didn't have to come up with the answer on his own--he had lots of advisors. After listening to all, he had the responsibility of making the best decision in absence of the Master.

Whats all that got to do with the Roman Catholic Church?
Do you think the "keys to heaven" are an ongoing dialogue of the elect only? If so, do you think the new rules of entry should be added to the library, bound and circulated? Should they be called Holy Scriptures? Should we listen to God or men? What about those who walk away from Jesus? Are their spoken truths written off because the vessel is tainted? Does any old truth remain? If so where?
How would Jesus be absent if you believe he is God?
Why did Jesus say on this rock I will build my church? Was it to do with faith? Was it to do with the name Peter? How was Peter like a rock then and later? The 10 commandments were etched into stone. Is that relevant? David liked to meditate on Gods commandments. How do you build your house on the rocks?
Do you believe that openly discussing the truth with advisors is godly and true?
What do you mean listening to all his advisors? What if they don't say anything? Is silence consent in your opinion?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

So I was reading in Matthew 23, and verse 9 says “And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.”
It seems clear that Catholicism is a pagan religion. So now I pose the question. If we are not to perform this kind of worship, isn’t the Vatican it’s own governing body under the religion of Catholicism? We wouldn’t call our governors or officials “father”. Shouldn’t they repent?

Yes, it is. Simon the Sorcerer was the "Simon" who founded that church. Everything Jesus said NOT to do, they do.

The TRUE Church is a little, persecuted band of Sabbatarians.

 

[UsernameKyle]

So I was reading in Matthew 23, and verse 9 says “And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.”
It seems clear that Catholicism is a pagan religion. So now I pose the question. If we are not to perform this kind of worship, isn’t the Vatican it’s own governing body under the religion of Catholicism? We wouldn’t call our governors or officials “father”. Shouldn’t they repent?

Yes, it is. Simon the Sorcerer was the "Simon" who founded that church. Everything Jesus said NOT to do, they do.

The TRUE Church is a little, persecuted band of Sabbatarians.

The church is a body to the head of Christ. One must accept His headship to be cleansed and the branch must be grafted back onto the Vine. Those who practice their own religions are after other gods. Nothing more is needed but to accept Christ and repent. When you stumble. Repent. When you willingly turn your back and walk away. Repent. He will take us back, always. And He loves those who don’t love Him, but His justice will be due.

 

[Jonathan McCreevey]

So I was reading in Matthew 23, and verse 9 says “And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.”
It seems clear that Catholicism is a pagan religion. So now I pose the question. If we are not to perform this kind of worship, isn’t the Vatican it’s own governing body under the religion of Catholicism? We wouldn’t call our governors or officials “father”. Shouldn’t they repent?

Yes, it is. Simon the Sorcerer was the "Simon" who founded that church. Everything Jesus said NOT to do, they do.

The TRUE Church is a little, persecuted band of Sabbatarians.

The church is a body to the head of Christ. One must accept His headship to be cleansed and the branch must be grafted back onto the Vine. Those who practice their own religions are after other gods. Nothing more is needed but to accept Christ and repent. When you stumble. Repent. When you willingly turn your back and walk away. Repent. He will take us back, always. And He loves those who don’t love Him, but His justice will be due.

What do you mean vine? I thought it was described as a tree in the bible. Is that verse a tare to you?
Can he take you back once you have died if you didnt accept him while alive? Is there a final chance before or during the final judgement? What about after that?
Are you changing the bible?
It seems like people enjoy making up stories or changing reputed historical stories. Is there truth in doing that?
Let me know what you think about those questions.

 

[UsernameKyle]

So I was reading in Matthew 23, and verse 9 says “And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.”
It seems clear that Catholicism is a pagan religion. So now I pose the question. If we are not to perform this kind of worship, isn’t the Vatican it’s own governing body under the religion of Catholicism? We wouldn’t call our governors or officials “father”. Shouldn’t they repent?

Jesus isn't describing the Catholic Church any more than he is describing the PepsiCo Corporation, which also has a hierarchy. He's describing the kingdom. When we think of churches, we think of denominations or local congregations with staff, elders, volunteers, and rank-and-file members, which may be well and good. When we think of the church, however, we must think of the body of Christ, which lacks any hierarchy save for Christ alone. This body countenances no division, for the members support each other (1 Cor 12:25). All are citizens of God’s household without class or rank (Eph 2:19). The lowly boasts in Christ and the powerful humbles himself in Christ (Jas 1:9-10). The lion lies down with the lamb, so to speak. No one rules and no one is ruled.

Within the assemblies and denominations, though, organization is inevitable. The assemblies have shepherds (1 Pt 5:2).

Read the full chapter before comparing Christ’s headship to a soda company. When He brought them out of Egypt, he did not anoint a king. Why? Bc the throne belonged to God. He called a messenger except the messenger then needed a messenger and we see our first glimpse of what you would call an organized church. We were called to be brothers in Matthew 23 as well.

I persist that Pope Francis and the Roman Catholic system should be uprooted and they should repent and turn to Christ. No more “father”. The glory is due to Christ, not man. He should be ashamed for not even attempting unite the world under Christ in a time like this. No, they pull donations that went to the poor to full their deficit. Then Covid happened and they give 100k euros to Italy but no mention of what God is saying to him. It’s because he doesn’t hear from God. Sorry, not sorry.

 

[UsernameKyle]

So I was reading in Matthew 23, and verse 9 says “And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.”
It seems clear that Catholicism is a pagan religion. So now I pose the question. If we are not to perform this kind of worship, isn’t the Vatican it’s own governing body under the religion of Catholicism? We wouldn’t call our governors or officials “father”. Shouldn’t they repent?

Yes, it is. Simon the Sorcerer was the "Simon" who founded that church. Everything Jesus said NOT to do, they do.

The TRUE Church is a little, persecuted band of Sabbatarians.

The church is a body to the head of Christ. One must accept His headship to be cleansed and the branch must be grafted back onto the Vine. Those who practice their own religions are after other gods. Nothing more is needed but to accept Christ and repent. When you stumble. Repent. When you willingly turn your back and walk away. Repent. He will take us back, always. And He loves those who don’t love Him, but His justice will be due.

What do you mean vine? I thought it was described as a tree in the bible. Is that verse a tare to you?
Can he take you back once you have died if you didnt accept him while alive? Is there a final chance before or during the final judgement? What about after that?
Are you changing the bible?
It seems like people enjoy making up stories or changing reputed historical stories. Is there truth in doing that?
Let me know what you think about those questions.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make, but I’ll start at the top.

Indeed a tree. As Jesus has compared himself to the tree that we must be rooted in. If we are attached to Christ we will be productive, much like a vine in a vineyard. If you choose not to abide in Christ, you miss the mark in the end.

Secondly, He can. He says he knows us as we are being formed. If you live your life rejecting and ignoring Him, not even inclining you learn about who He is, then I can’t say He would. As a matter of fact, He would ask you why aren’t you taking Him back? He has not sinned against you. Moreover, He actually died for us bc we’ve sinned against him and he wants us back passionately.

Third. It’s called final judgement for a very simple reason. It’s not that tough. 2000 years since the name of Jesus rang out across the world and to think with internet people are still so ignorant of who He is. How can it be?

Finally, I do not add to or take away from the Bible. I use the Bible to interpret the Bible and believe every word I read. Why? Jesus is alive and if you’re worried me making up stories, I’d like to hear your thoughts on the empty tomb.

 

[Jonathan McCreevey]

So I was reading in Matthew 23, and verse 9 says “And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.”
It seems clear that Catholicism is a pagan religion. So now I pose the question. If we are not to perform this kind of worship, isn’t the Vatican it’s own governing body under the religion of Catholicism? We wouldn’t call our governors or officials “father”. Shouldn’t they repent?

Yes, it is. Simon the Sorcerer was the "Simon" who founded that church. Everything Jesus said NOT to do, they do.

The TRUE Church is a little, persecuted band of Sabbatarians.

The church is a body to the head of Christ. One must accept His headship to be cleansed and the branch must be grafted back onto the Vine. Those who practice their own religions are after other gods. Nothing more is needed but to accept Christ and repent. When you stumble. Repent. When you willingly turn your back and walk away. Repent. He will take us back, always. And He loves those who don’t love Him, but His justice will be due.

What do you mean vine? I thought it was described as a tree in the bible. Is that verse a tare to you?
Can he take you back once you have died if you didnt accept him while alive? Is there a final chance before or during the final judgement? What about after that?
Are you changing the bible?
It seems like people enjoy making up stories or changing reputed historical stories. Is there truth in doing that?
Let me know what you think about those questions.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make, but I’ll start at the top.

Indeed a tree. As Jesus has compared himself to the tree that we must be rooted in. If we are attached to Christ we will be productive, much like a vine in a vineyard. If you choose not to abide in Christ, you miss the mark in the end.

Secondly, He can. He says he knows us as we are being formed. If you live your life rejecting and ignoring Him, not even inclining you learn about who He is, then I can’t say He would. As a matter of fact, He would ask you why aren’t you taking Him back? He has not sinned against you. Moreover, He actually died for us bc we’ve sinned against him and he wants us back passionately.

Third. It’s called final judgement for a very simple reason. It’s not that tough. 2000 years since the name of Jesus rang out across the world and to think with internet people are still so ignorant of who He is. How can it be?

Finally, I do not add to or take away from the Bible. I use the Bible to interpret the Bible and believe every word I read. Why? Jesus is alive and if you’re worried me making up stories, I’d like to hear your thoughts on the empty tomb.

Im not so worried about what you wrote

 

[Penelope]

So I was reading in Matthew 23, and verse 9 says “And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.”
It seems clear that Catholicism is a pagan religion. So now I pose the question. If we are not to perform this kind of worship, isn’t the Vatican it’s own governing body under the religion of Catholicism? We wouldn’t call our governors or officials “father”. Shouldn’t they repent?

Jesus isn't describing the Catholic Church any more than he is describing the PepsiCo Corporation, which also has a hierarchy. He's describing the kingdom. When we think of churches, we think of denominations or local congregations with staff, elders, volunteers, and rank-and-file members, which may be well and good. When we think of the church, however, we must think of the body of Christ, which lacks any hierarchy save for Christ alone. This body countenances no division, for the members support each other (1 Cor 12:25). All are citizens of God’s household without class or rank (Eph 2:19). The lowly boasts in Christ and the powerful humbles himself in Christ (Jas 1:9-10). The lion lies down with the lamb, so to speak. No one rules and no one is ruled.

Within the assemblies and denominations, though, organization is inevitable. The assemblies have shepherds (1 Pt 5:2).

Read the full chapter before comparing Christ’s headship to a soda company. When He brought them out of Egypt, he did not anoint a king. Why? Bc the throne belonged to God. He called a messenger except the messenger then needed a messenger and we see our first glimpse of what you would call an organized church. We were called to be brothers in Matthew 23 as well.

I persist that Pope Francis and the Roman Catholic system should be uprooted and they should repent and turn to Christ. No more “father”. The glory is due to Christ, not man. He should be ashamed for not even attempting unite the world under Christ in a time like this. No, they pull donations that went to the poor to full their deficit. Then Covid happened and they give 100k euros to Italy but no mention of what God is saying to him. It’s because he doesn’t hear from God. Sorry, not sorry.

Would you have have the bible or the Christian Religion without Rome? Such is the RCC.
----------------------------------------------

“I asked the Lord to stop the epidemic,” Pope Francis said, describing how he prayed on Sunday afternoon when he walked “on pilgrimage” along a deserted street in the center of Rome. “Lord, stop it with your hand. That’s what I prayed for.”

Pope Francis tells Italian newspaper: ‘I asked the Lord to stop the epidemic.’

 

[Picaro]

He's the head administrator over other administrators. Organizations that don't have a top executive over all the other executives, Bishops and Cardinals in this case, usually don't fare well, which is why corporations aren't run like democracies. Popes do a lot more than just sitting around waiting to walk out on a balcony and make speeches once in a while, they actively run a worldwide corporation.

And he's the head administrator over other administrators in the Catholic Church, not in the kingdom of God.

Yes. What became the 'Church' was essentially a bureaucracy Constantine appointed to handle the Roman Empire's social services arm; the Christians' networks of support for each other and their poorer members and widows and orphans was impressive, and wokred far more efficiently that the state's own bureaucracy. Two of other co-Emperors in the Tetrarchy frantically tried to order their pagan cults leaders to copy and try to outdo the detestable Xians, but failed miserably, as none of them could come close to the abilities of the Christian churches in cooperation and getting along as a group, even under severe repressions and mass murders. When Constantine finally won out over his enemies it was made 'universal' over the Empire, but ended up mainly dominant in the former western empire as it collapsed, ironically due to the converted pagan tribes like the Visigoths taking up the vestiges. The Eastern Empire's Church became the Orthodox after the split; I forget the exact year, but it's easy to find.

 

[Picaro]

ah, the formal break was in 1054, a few hundred years after the fall of the West.

 

[Picaro]

Without Catholicism you wouldn't have the Christian religions.

Actually, the Orthodox Church pre-dates the Roman Catholic Church.

And is itself descended from the early Syrian Orthodox congregations.

 

[Picaro]

In Catholicism, we rarely see one a church separating because of differences, i.e., unlike many Baptist churches who sometimes feel that small differences indicate the congregation would be better off separating into their own sub-units. There are 31 major Baptist denominations plus all these sub-units. Be clear, I am not saying this is wrong, only pointing out the Catholic Church works hard to stay united because of Jesus prayer that we all remain one.

Hope this helps!

the Baptists refer to themselves as a 'Convention', not an established sect, per se; they only have three platforms, and beyond those the individual churches can pretty much conduct themselves as they please re theology. One of their original key platforms is the separation of church and state; its founders invented it in 1611 or so. See Thomas Helwys for the story on that.

I will add that I personally don't believe Peter ever set foot in Italy, much less Rome, so I don't believe he founded the Catholic church, but on the other hand I don't believe the Catholic Church deserves all the hate directed at it, either, most of which is just ridiculous Protestant propaganda invented in the 1500's. While many feudal rulers in the West adopted a political policy of 'converting' to Catholicism, I seriously doubt more than few were ever genuine believers, and certainly most of the 'peasants' remained thoroughly pagan right up to the present day, and the results of their superstitions, like witch burnings and all the other pagan rubbish can't be laid at the Church's doorsteps, no matter how much it's haters strain to do so. The Church's history in Europe is most certainly far more benign as a social order than it would have been under paganism by a long shot. The rest of the world continues to bear this observation out to this day.

 

[Taz]

The Pope is there to make sure all the pedophile priests don't go wild. Plus, every mafia has its capo di capo.

 

[gtopa1]

The pope is just a man. Not my father, no anyone elses father. When they call him that, its an insult.
Can you see Jesus living in luxury like the pope does? They treat that guy like he's God. And no...he doesn't speak for God either.

I honstly don't understand that religion and why they do what they do.

The Pope is just a man who upholds a responsibility. The etymology of 'Pope' traces back to 'Papa' which people were in the habit of calling the Bishop of Rome. The Bishop of Rome is now known as Pope. His major responsibility is to be a tie-breaker should a difference occur and remain deep within the Church. When the difference is resolved, it becomes 'infallible' meaning it may not be overturned by a future Pope; it becomes a part of all Church teaching. There have been three such 'infallible' rulings in the two-thousand year history of the Catholic Faith. All the other issues we consider to be infallible were set up by Christ and the Apostles--and the Catholic faith closely follows all of these traditions.

So where in the bible does it say that they have to be gay...um, I mean celibate?

Hi Taz; taking the vow to be "celibate" means they can't screw females OR males. Peds break that oath just as any other faihless scum.

I hope that helps.

Greg