Why is there such a HUGE abyss between conservative and liberal politics?

[nomadic5]

You fake disciples of Jesus and "pro-lifers" are always voting for politicians who defund social programs:

Where does it say in the US Constitution that tax money should be spent on alleviating every individual American's hardships/problems?

Liberals do not understand (or want to understand) the Constitution (or much of anything).

 

[Red Front]

Where does it say in the US Constitution that tax money should be spent on alleviating every individual American's hardships/problems?

Liberals do not understand (or want to understand) the Constitution (or much of anything).

Taxes aren't spent or allocated to those programs. More, not doing it, is more expensive. We actually end up spending more when we ignore these social ills and fail to directly address them.

Being that you're a demoniac disciple of Satan, I understand why you flippantly dismiss the notion of eliminating hunger, homelessness, and lack of access to healthcare and an affordable education. Your father the devil, loves it when people are indifferent to the needs of the poor.

 

[Red Front]

this is NOT true.

When I have been in need of something, it ws members of the (true) Catholic Churches who helped me the most and they are all or mostly conservative. i can't see a liberal wanting to EVER attend a Traditional Mass.. or even a celebrated-by-conservative (novus ordo) priest Mass

Liberals do not help the poor because they figure the gummit does that.. It's a known fact that liberals do not give to charity like conservatives do

I'm not a liberal, I'm a Marxist-Leninist/Communist. However, at least liberals support government programs that effectively meet the needs of the poor. Much more so than private religious charities, especially when it comes to homelessness. The only reason the government hasn't eliminated homelessness in America is due to Republican politicians not voting for bills that would house the homeless and provide them with the healthcare and counseling that they need to get clean and sober.

 

[Mashmont]

What are "liberal," "neoorthodox," and "conservative" views of inspiration?

What are liberal, neoorthodox, and conservative views? These terms refer to views of the Bible's accuracy, truth, and how the Bible was written.

www.neverthirsty.org

Well, I skimmed through the first part of the material at this site and it is not or probably not a site I would agree with totally on religious issues but I tend to think we'd agree on the political... which kind of defines my experiences at usmb

But anyhow, the site says that liberals do not believe the Bible came from God.

Wait... there may be a disagreement with my own faith right there. It is true they reject the bible as being from God. But they reject God PERIOD. Even if you disregard the Bible entirely, there is no god you could possibly believe in who would condone what liberals are always condoning. the murder of helpless children is the most egregious example I now think of, but there are other examples.

In any case, when you don't have Higher Power to answer to, someone who will hold you accountable for all that you did on Planet E while you were here... and multiply that by all the other liberals in the world...

We can hardly be surprised when... Societal chaos and mayhem ensue..

Most people in their natural state are conservatives. But the Marxist media is intent on dividing people by coaxing the unintelligent to assume idiotic positions in order to enrage conservatives, thus causing division. Trans operations on pre-teens, killing children in the womb, defunding the police, waving illegals in, legalizing prostitution, manmade global warming. Sex outside marriage. Gay sex. These are all things which clearly damage society, yet the stupid are able to be convinced that these things are desirable. Part of it is, the stupid want to be included and liked and hip, as measured by by the mainstream left. So then we have a war and division between the stupids and the conservatives. And this will make it much easier for the Communists to take over a weakened country, as opposed to a united America.

Take away the Marxist atheist media, and we would have much less strife and division. This is why I say America should declare itself a Christian country and outlaw any public expressions of atheism by the media, cinema, social media. Life would go a whole lot smoother. Nearly everyone would be back to loving America.

 

[nomadic5]

Most people in their natural state are conservatives. But the Marxist media is intent on dividing people by coaxing the unintelligent to assume idiotic positions in order to enrage conservatives, thus causing division. Trans operations on pre-teens, killing children in the womb, defunding the police, waving illegals in, legalizing prostitution, manmade global warming. Sex outside marriage. Gay sex. These are all things which clearly damage society, yet the stupid are able to be convinced that these things are desirable. Part of it is, the stupid want to be included and liked and hip, as measured by by the mainstream left. So then we have a war and division between the stupids and the conservatives. And this will make it much easier for the Communists to take over a weakened country, as opposed to a united America.

Take away the Marxist atheist media, and we would have much less strife and division. This is why I say America should declare itself a Christian country and outlaw any public expressions of atheism by the media, cinema, social media. Life would go a whole lot smoother. Nearly everyone would be back to loving America.

I agree 100%.. except that I'm somehow still reluctant to call them Marxists. I know Marx was anti-Christ, so I get it. But even Marx didn't (that I know of) call for sexualizing children, aborting them up to the 9th month! I mean, I think it is a little .. off the mark or whatever to call what is going on today Marxist. It is a new thing (although as the Bible says, there is nothing new under the sun, so I get that also)

Also: If you make America Christian like it was intended to be from the beginning, people's heads will explode (already happening) and they will scream (already happening)

"FREEDOM! We want freedom from religion! Separation of church and state!!"



when really all it is separation of (as you say here) intelligent/wise from NOT

 

[Red Front]

I agree 100%.. except that I'm somehow still reluctant to call them Marxists. I know Marx was anti-Christ, so I get it. But even Marx didn't (that I know of) call for sexualizing children, aborting them up to the 9th month! I mean, I think it is a little .. off the mark or whatever to call what is going on today Marxist. It is a new thing (although as the Bible says, there is nothing new under the sun, so I get that also)

Also: If you make America Christian like it was intended to be from the beginning, people's heads will explode (already happening) and they will scream (already happening)

"FREEDOM! We want freedom from religion! Separation of church and state!!"



when really all it is separation of (as you say here) intelligent/wise from NOT

America wasn't created to be Christian, any more than it was founded to be Muslim or anything else.

Article VI, paragraph 3:

"...but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

This means that there should never be a requirement for a person to profess a particular faith, or any faith at all, in order to serve in public office in the United States. It's a key component of the Constitution's protections of religious freedom, which also include the First Amendment's prohibition on Congress making laws "respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

In America, you have the right to practice your religion, or not have one. It's up to you.

 

[Hector12]

Actually the huge abyss has been created by our elected officials intent on dividing us, the media has just been helping.

One does not get places in politics by changing people's minds, but by channeling and directing sentiments that already exist.

Rush Limbaugh got his following because the mainstream media was liberal, and millions of whites did not think it reflected their opinions. Rush Limbaugh did.

 

[Hector12]

The underlying reasons for the growing polarization of out politics is the growing diversity of our country, and the fact that most Negroes have disappointed early optimism about how they would perform and behave when they were given equal rights. Finally, the Democrat Party has been unwilling to address the growing income gap. The rich keep getting richer, while incomes for most whites stagnate or decline.

Identity politics is a poor substitute for economic policies that would lift the standard of living for working class whites and lower middle class whites.

Immigration, which Democrats support, contributes to the growing income gap. By competing for jobs immigrants enable employers to hold the line on pay increases. By competing for jobs immigrants enable landlords to raise rents.

 

[nomadic5]

America wasn't created to be Christian,

As John Adams, co-Founder of the USA said

(my paraphrase) This nation was created for moral and upright people. It is wholly inadequate for any other

He was a Christian and he was speaking of Christian values. I know. I have studied history.

NOt everyone has done that.

 

[Red Front]

As John Adams, co-Founder of the USA said

(my paraphrase) This nation was created for moral and upright people. It is wholly inadequate for any other

He was a Christian and he was speaking of Christian values. I know. I have studied history.

NOt everyone has done that.

Many of the founding fathers of the US were heavily influenced by secular Enlightenment thinking, which emphasized reason, science, and skepticism of traditional religious dogma, than by any single religious tradition. Some of the Founders, like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, are often considered Deists, not Christians.

Jefferson authored his own version of the New Testament, removing all miracles and focusing on moral teachings, a version sometimes called "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth" or the "Jefferson Bible." This indicates a unique perspective on Christianity that doesn't "square well" with mainstream Christian thought.

Benjamin Franklin, in his autobiography, detailed his shift from traditional Christian belief to Deism, writing, "I soon became a thorough Deist" (Franklin, Benjamin. "The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin". Yale University Press, 1964).

Even if we acknowledge the Christian beliefs of some Founders, the documents they crafted reflect a clear separation of church and state. The First Amendment emphasizes this separation, proclaiming:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

This prevents the government from favoring or mandating a particular religion like Christianity, for example.

The U.S. Constitution, in Article VI, Paragraph 3, states:

"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

This fundamentally guarantees the rights of individuals of all religious backgrounds or those with no religious affiliation to serve in public office.

The "Treaty of Tripoli" of 1797, ratified under President John Adams (the founder that you mentioned), unambiguously asserts:

"the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" ("Treaty of Peace and Friendship, Signed at Tripoli November 4, 1796", The Avalon Project, Yale Law School).

Several Founding Fathers were Freemasons, including George Washington and Benjamin Franklin. Most Evangelical Christians consider the masonic lodge "satanic".

The belief in morality as a foundation for the nation does not suggest that it should be a Christian nation. Morality is not confined within the boundaries of religion. Non-religious individuals are capable of leading moral lives. The emphasis of the founding documents is on principles like liberty, justice, and equality, rather than specific religious teachings.

More, how can you religious folks consider yourselves genuinely moral, when the only reason you are good is to avoid being tortured in hell for all eternity by your deity? You don't see or value the inherent good of ethical behavior apart from a deity that essentially is holding a knife to your neck, threatening you with eternal damnation. Either you're tortured in hell for all eternity or you go to heaven forever, that's where your "morality" comes from.

True morality originates from a self-evident, inherent sense of the value of life and human empathy. A common decency that affirms and elevates human life. A person can be ethical, good, irrespective of whether they're religious or not. Morality transcends religion.

In conclusion, while the Founding Fathers' personal religious beliefs varied widely, the Constitution they created guarantees freedom of religion (including freedom FROM religion) and does not establish the U.S. as a "Christian nation". The separation of church and state is a cornerstone of American democracy. Our country belongs to all Americans, irrespective of their religious beliefs or lack there of.

PS: "In God We Trust", wasn't on our currency until the 1950s. It was added to our money during the McCarthy era, a.k.a. the "Red Scare", in response to those supposed "evil godless communists".

 

[Woodznutz]

To the thread title.

Conservatives: Basically good, as suggested by their policies.
Liberals: Basically evil, as suggested by their policies.

 

[ActionJackson]

Why is there such a HUGE abyss between conservative and liberal politics?​

The same reason there's a huge abyss between geniuses (conservatives) and the mentally retarded (liberals).

 

[theHawk]

What are "liberal," "neoorthodox," and "conservative" views of inspiration?

What are liberal, neoorthodox, and conservative views? These terms refer to views of the Bible's accuracy, truth, and how the Bible was written.

www.neverthirsty.org

Well, I skimmed through the first part of the material at this site and it is not or probably not a site I would agree with totally on religious issues but I tend to think we'd agree on the political... which kind of defines my experiences at usmb

But anyhow, the site says that liberals do not believe the Bible came from God.

Wait... there may be a disagreement with my own faith right there. It is true they reject the bible as being from God. But they reject God PERIOD. Even if you disregard the Bible entirely, there is no god you could possibly believe in who would condone what liberals are always condoning. the murder of helpless children is the most egregious example I now think of, but there are other examples.

In any case, when you don't have Higher Power to answer to, someone who will hold you accountable for all that you did on Planet E while you were here... and multiply that by all the other liberals in the world...

We can hardly be surprised when... Societal chaos and mayhem ensue..

The left are inherently satanic. They reject God, or they claim to worship God but only according to the rules they are comfortable with. Basically they are relativistic and will change the rules and laws as they see fit.
A God fearing conservative believes in something higher than himself, and submits to that higher authority.

 

[theHawk]

You're unable to take ownership of your own judgment and morality, shifting the responsibility onto this "God" entity that you've created. You fail, if not refuse to see the inherent value of life and the self-evident patterns of behavior that ensure its survival and success hence your inability to thoughtfully plot your own course through the thicket of your mortal existence.

You're not moral, because ethical people don't refrain from stealing, raping, and murdering others, only when they're ordered to from "on high" by a deity that is threatening them with eternal damnation or enticing them with an eternal reward in heaven. They don't abuse, injure, violate, or kill other people because it's an affront to their inherent sense of human decency. They possess a sense of solidarity with other human beings and feel empathy towards them, because at the end of the day, we're all human beings, on board the same sinking ship. They don't avoid such evil acts out of fear of being tortured in hell by an angry deity.

Your version of "God" isn't too convincing or even worthy of our love and respect. This deity that you created in your own image, doesn't have a clue of what it is to be a mortal human being, subject to all of the hazards, ignorance, and weaknesses that you and I have to experience. When we go to our death, we enter that dark room without a flashlight, we have no idea what's going to happen to us, if anything. We truly face death as a mortal being, unlike this god you worship who was born of an immaculate virgin and knew every single day of his supposed human life that he was the son of an infinite god. Do you and I have such a privilege? Knowing that we have the power to raise ourselves up from the dead?

Your religion is flawed and nothing more than a manifestation of your fear and unwillingness to come to terms with reality, as it truly is. It's time to grow up and become an adult. There's no heavenly sugar daddy.

Wrong, on all accounts.

 

[Hector12]

The left are inherently satanic. They reject God, or they claim to worship God but only according to the rules they are comfortable with. Basically they are relativistic and will change the rules and laws as they see fit.
A God fearing conservative believes in something higher than himself, and submits to that higher authority.

I nearly always vote a straight Democratic ticket. Because the Republican Party only cares about rich people and pretends that global warming is a hoax, for me the choice on a general election is between the Democrat or none of the above. It is nearly always the Democrat.

I was active in the anti war movement during the War in Vietnam. I was a member of the Democratic Socialist Organizing Committee. That later developed into Democratic Socialists of America.

I attended church this morning. Did you? I nearly always attend church on Sunday. Do you?

Have you ever read the Bible from cover to cover, including the Apocrypha? I have, nine times in eight English translations. Right now I am half way through my ninth English translation.

Republicans usually agree with New Testament Sadducees that wealth is the reward for righteousness. Jesus did not, and said, Matthew 19:23-24 "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

 

[theHawk]

I nearly always vote a straight Democratic ticket. Because the Republican Party only cares about rich people and pretends that global warming is a hoax, for me the choice on a general election is between the Democrat or none of the above. It is nearly always the Democrat.

I was active in the anti war movement during the War in Vietnam. I was a member of the Democratic Socialist Organizing Committee. That later developed into Democratic Socialists of America.

I attended church this morning. Did you? I nearly always attend church on Sunday. Do you?

Have you ever read the Bible from cover to cover, including the Apocrypha? I have, nine times in eight English translations. Right now I am half way through my ninth English translation.

Republicans usually agree with New Testament Sadducees that wealth is the reward for righteousness. Jesus did not, and said, Matthew 19:23-24 "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

Total strawman, we don’t care about rich people. Dumbest low IQ trope of the left.
We want to stop the insane trade deals with China that have destroyed our manufacturing and left very few good jobs for lower and middle class Americans.
We want to stop stupid foreign wars against countries that never attacked us and are no threat to us.

If you are voting for Establishment Dems, which is all of them except RFJ Jr and Tulsi Gabbard, you are a warmonger.


…..



Yes I have attended church every week for the last four years plus.
I have never heard Republicans say that wealth is a reward for righteousness, so this is more nonsense you just want to believe.

……


About the rich man entering the Kingdom of Heaven and it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, did you read the verse before and the versus after?

Jesus already told the man he was doing enough by keeping his commandments, but if he wanted to be “perfect”, to sell everything.

After the bit about easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle:

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Here Jesus is saying that with God the impossible is possible. It is possible for the rich man to enter Heaven.

No human is perfect. But Jesus will accept you regardless.

You claim you read the Bible cover to cover 9 times, yet you totally misrepresented this well known parable, and missed the whole point. Something tells me you need to read it again.

 

[Hector12]

Total strawman, we don’t care about rich people. Dumbest low IQ trope of the left.
We want to stop the insane trade deals with China that have destroyed our manufacturing and left very few good jobs for lower and middle class Americans.
We want to stop stupid foreign wars against countries that never attacked us and are no threat to us.

If you are voting for Establishment Dems, which is all of them except RFJ Jr and Tulsi Gabbard, you are a warmonger.


…..



Yes I have attended church every week for the last four years plus.
I have never heard Republicans say that wealth is a reward for righteousness, so this is more nonsense you just want to believe.

……


About the rich man entering the Kingdom of Heaven and it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, did you read the verse before and the versus after?

Jesus already told the man he was doing enough by keeping his commandments, but if he wanted to be “perfect”, to sell everything.

After the bit about easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle:

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Here Jesus is saying that with God the impossible is possible. It is possible for the rich man to enter Heaven.

No human is perfect. But Jesus will accept you regardless.

You claim you read the Bible cover to cover 9 times, yet you totally misrepresented this well known parable, and missed the whole point. Something tells me you need to read it again.

You might not care about rich people, but the leaders of the Republican Party do. That is why they cut taxes for the rich every time they are able to. As a result of Republican tax cuts for the rich the national debt has risen from $908 billion in 1980, which was President Carter's last year in office to $27,748 billion during Trump's last year in office, which was 2020.

In 1980 the national debt was 32% of the gross domestic product (GDP) in 2020 this had grown to 129% billion.

US National Debt by Year

The U.S. national debt was over $31 trillion in 2022. In 1930, it was just $16 billion. The biggest impacts have been defense spending, recessions, and recently, the pandemic.

www.thebalancemoney.com

Republicans used to believe in balanced budgets? What happened to that?

George W. Bush invaded Iraq, even though Saddam was not responsible for 9/11. Because of Bush's useless pivot to Iraq Osama bin Laden managed to escape to Pakistan, where he was finally killed during the administration of President Obama.

 

[theHawk]

Republicans used to believe in balanced budgets? What happened to that?

George W. Bush invaded Iraq, even though Saddam was not responsible for 9/11. Because of Bush's useless pivot to Iraq Osama bin Laden managed to escape to Pakistan, where he was finally killed during the administration of President Obama

Neocons took over both parties, every major Dem voted for those wars.

When Obama got in, did he end the wars as promised? No. In fact he got us in more wars. Where were you pussy hatters at? No protests against the Hussein’s warmongering, eh?

When President Trump took over he drastically reduced both wars to the point of almost no fighting and only 2500 troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, along with ISIS being completely wiped out, and he did it without invading a new country like the warmongers wanted (see Syria).

So the Establishment war machine had to get rid of Trump, and they did by a rigged election. They installed their biggest Establishment clown, who has never said no to a war, Shitler himself, Joe “Pedo Pete” Biden. Now we have a new proxy war in Ukraine, and so-called “anti-war liberals” are cheerleaders for this dumb war that Washington helped orchestrate.

 

[Votto]

Why is there such a HUGE abyss between conservative and liberal politics?​

Both the Left and conservatives are looking for the same thing, a good shepherd to shepherd us.

Why? Because as the Bible says, we are all sheeple and are in need of a shepherd. Deep down we know it.

But as Jesus said, I am the good Shepherd and all those that come instead of me will use and abuse and kill you, or they soon will be.

And this is what we see every election cycle. We see conservatives voting for those who promote the least shepherding by the state because they already have a shepherd, or those perceived to do the least shepherding by the state. The Left, however, votes for those who promote greater shepherding power by the state in the hopes of their collective salvation via the state.

It really is that simple.

 

[Votto]

Jim Jones was an extremist and a demagogue.

Jim Jones is the perfect example of what I'm trying to say here.

Jimbo believed that the church was not Leftist enough because it did not fight for his collective salvation through the state.

So, he parted ways with traditional Christianity, and his followers followed him.

His followers were following a man, and not Christ.