Why is this Michigan football sign-stealing investigation being treated as such a big deal?

[Mr. Friscus]

It's funny that you think an organized effort to violate specific NCAA rules that involved multiple people on the staff, flying all over the country, a budget, record keeping that went on for multiple years is akin to going 8 over the speed limit.

1. Any effort is “organized”
2. And any effort that produces the same result of supposed injustice requires the same standard of punishment, obviously. (Well, I guess not as obvious as it should be…). I don’t think anyone should be punished, and if it has to happen a slap on the wrist for such a common, minuscule thing is fine.

BTW wasn't Harbaugh already suspended this year? Something about lying to the NCAA during their investigation of a minor recruiting violation. Didn't the school suspend him, while the investigation was still ongoing? Where was the outrage then?

1. Why are you changing the subject
2. They self imposed the ban, so obviously, that’s different (well, not as obvious as it should be..)

 

[sealybobo]

Dont have one. Try reading the posts.

Theres no court.

Theres no judge.

Trying being a bit less dumb.

I did a search for all the times you ever mentioned Michigan. You've been hating on MI since 2021 so long before this witch hunt against Jim Harbaugh.

I thought OSU but then I foud a post where you said you aren't a OSU fan. Weird you hate MI as much as you do.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

I did a search for all the times you ever mentioned Michigan. You've been hating on MI since 2021 so long before this witch hunt against Jim Harbaugh.

I thought OSU but then I foud a post where you said you aren't a OSU fan. Weird you hate MI as much as you do.

I suspected as such, dude has palpable hate

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Dont have one. Try reading the posts.

Theres no court.

Theres no judge.

Trying being a bit less dumb.

 

[sealybobo]

View attachment 857961

Last year in November he said this

From the looks of it Michigan has played a pretty cupcake schedule this year. The only ranked opponent they've played is PSU and they played them at home. Im not saying Michigan isnt a good squad but it's tough to gauge how good they are or are not because they've played so many bad teams.

So he doesn't hate Michigan but he sure isn't a fan.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Last year in November he said this

From the looks of it Michigan has played a pretty cupcake schedule this year. The only ranked opponent they've played is PSU and they played them at home. Im not saying Michigan isnt a good squad but it's tough to gauge how good they are or are not because they've played so many bad teams.

So he doesn't hate Michigan but he sure isn't a fan.

Eh.. I’ve been saying pretty much the same thing. I hate puff schedules, and Michigan has one this year.

 

[sealybobo]

Eh.. I’ve been saying pretty much the same thing. I hate puff schedules, and Michigan has one this year.

Yea but they have to play OSU so that game either puts them rightfully in the top 4 or knocks them out.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Yea but they have to play OSU so that game either puts them rightfully in the top 4 or knocks them out.

Indeed, but all of that is mandatory in-conference. They didn’t go out and play a non-conference tough opponent. OSU Had Notre Dame this year. That should be rewarded, that’s why I’ve had OSU ranked ahead of Michigan all year

 

[Couchpotato]

1. Any effort is “organized”
2. And any effort that produces the same result of supposed injustice requires the same standard of punishment, obviously. (Well, I guess not as obvious as it should be…). I don’t think anyone should be punished, and if it has to happen a slap on the wrist for such a common, minuscule thing.

It's common that teams have a system set up to fly members of their staff to watch opposing teams play games in violation of NCAA rules? Got any proof of that?

It's not against the rules for teams to possess opposing teams signs. It's not against the rules for them to steal them. It is against the rules for them to do in person scouting at games. Do you see now why Michigan got in trouble and the teams that you say also have signs are not? I know that's been very hard for you so far.

11.6.1 is the in-person scouting rule said to be broken. "Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited, except as provided in Bylaws 11.6.1.1 and 11.6.1.2. (Adopted: 1/11/94 effective 8/1/94, Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 1/19/13 effective 8/1/13, 1/15/14)"

That's the rule they violated, and they are being punished for. And to be clear they didn't do it once or twice. It wasn't some low level grad assistant coach who took it upon himself to do this. This was a systematic thing. There were multiple coaches involved, spreadsheets tracking who was going to which games and when. They were tracking teams outside the BIG10 they were going to attend games for pending rankings etc etc. So your "whoops I was speeding sorry officer" analogy is BS. It's more akin to someone who organized street racing.

1. Why are you changing the subject
2. They self imposed the ban, so obviously, that’s different (well, not as obvious as it should be..)

It's not changing the subject. It's pointing out that the program has already run afoul of the NCAA, THIS YEAR. That's certainly pertinent to discussion about them getting in trouble with the same body.

I did a search for all the times you ever mentioned Michigan. You've been hating on MI since 2021 so long before this witch hunt against Jim Harbaugh.

I thought OSU but then I foud a post where you said you aren't a OSU fan. Weird you hate MI as much as you do.

WTF are you talking about? When have I ever "hated" on Michigan? Please quote all the "hate" posts I've made about Michigan.

This is simple.

Team A violated rule B and received C punishment. Just because you like team A doesnt mean they didnt violate rule B or deserve punishment C.

 

[sealybobo]

It's common that teams have a system set up to fly members of their staff to watch opposing teams play games in violation of NCAA rules? Got any proof of that?

It's not against the rules for teams to possess opposing teams signs. It's not against the rules for them to steal them. It is against the rules for them to do in person scouting at games. Do you see now why Michigan got in trouble and the teams that you say also have signs are not? I know that's been very hard for you so far.

11.6.1 is the in-person scouting rule said to be broken. "Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited, except as provided in Bylaws 11.6.1.1 and 11.6.1.2. (Adopted: 1/11/94 effective 8/1/94, Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 1/19/13 effective 8/1/13, 1/15/14)"

That's the rule they violated, and they are being punished for. And to be clear they didn't do it once or twice. It wasn't some low level grad assistant coach who took it upon himself to do this. This was a systematic thing. There were multiple coaches involved, spreadsheets tracking who was going to which games and when. They were tracking teams outside the BIG10 they were going to attend games for pending rankings etc etc. So your "whoops I was speeding sorry officer" analogy is BS. It's more akin to someone who organized street racing.



It's not changing the subject. It's pointing out that the program has already run afoul of the NCAA, THIS YEAR. That's certainly pertinent to discussion about them getting in trouble with the same body.


WTF are you talking about? When have I ever "hated" on Michigan? Please quote all the "hate" posts I've made about Michigan.

This is simple.

Team A violated rule B and received C punishment. Just because you like team A doesnt mean they didnt violate rule B or deserve punishment C.

Well I think Michigan should send people to other schools. Enroll in the school, then steal all their plays. All it takes is a simple phone call and one word to activate the mancurian candidates. Sleeper cells. Hey, if you ain't cheatin you aint tryin.

I realized this the other day after connecting Michigan's cheating to Tom Brady going to school there and he went on to New England and corrupted poor Bill Belichick. Heck, Coach may not even known that Brady was cheating. That was between Brady and the ball boys. But I can't help but think that Brady took his culture of cheating to the Patriots. It sure payed off. Who's another big cheater? Saints former coach? Sean Payton? Total cheater. But won them a superbowl.

LARAMFAN will tell you Seattle cheated. They came this close to winning back to back titles cheating.

 

[Couchpotato]

Well I think Michigan should send people to other schools. Enroll in the school, then steal all their plays. All it takes is a simple phone call and one word to activate the mancurian candidates. Sleeper cells. Hey, if you ain't cheatin you aint tryin.

I realized this the other day after connecting Michigan's cheating to Tom Brady going to school there and he went on to New England and corrupted poor Bill Belichick. Heck, Coach may not even known that Brady was cheating. That was between Brady and the ball boys. But I can't help but think that Brady took his culture of cheating to the Patriots. It sure payed off. Who's another big cheater? Saints former coach? Sean Payton? Total cheater. But won them a superbowl.

LARAMFAN will tell you Seattle cheated. They came this close to winning back to back titles cheating.

Did you lose that search of all the "Michigan hate" posts I've made? Or was that just bullshit?

 

[sealybobo]

Did you lose that search of all the "Michigan hate" posts I've made? Or was that just bullshit?

You certainly weren't vitriolic about it but you sure aren't a fan. But you aren't a fan of Ohio or BAMA either. You can't tell us who your favorite team is? Or what state you live in?

 

[Couchpotato]

You certainly weren't vitriolic about it but you sure aren't a fan. But you aren't a fan of Ohio or BAMA either. You can't tell us who your favorite team is? Or what state you live in?

I don’t have one. I’m not sure how I can say that differently to makes you understand it.

 

[sealybobo]

I don’t have one. I’m not sure how I can say that differently to makes you understand it.

I don't believe it. Makes you seem, well, insincere. Certainly you went to college right? Didn't they have a football team? My alma mater lost 48 to 8 the other day on ESPN 2. That's why MSU is my favorite school. Then UofM.

What state do you live in? Can you at least tell me that?

 

[Mr. Friscus]

It's common that teams have a system set up to fly members of their staff to watch opposing teams play games in violation of NCAA rules? Got any proof of that?

It's not against the rules for teams to possess opposing teams signs. It's not against the rules for them to steal them. It is against the rules for them to do in person scouting at games.

That’s just a really dumb standard to hold.

“You can steal things with gloves on and it’s not a crime, but if you don’t wear gloves it’s a crime”

You still stole. Rules that condemn a supposedly unethical result but allow that supposedly unethical result in some areas but not in others aren’t respectable. I think most agree, and I bet this rule gets changed very soon.

Team A violated rule B and received C punishment. Just because you like team A doesnt mean they didnt violate rule B or deserve punishment C.

But there is no “punishment C”… it’s a subjective punishment, and clearly the rogue Big 10 (not the NCAA) went heavy handed, AND was super shady giving their ruling at 4pm on Friday on Veterans Day while the team was traveling so that Michigan couldn’t file an injunction.

Anyone who has a brain can see the conspiring and intent here.

 

[Couchpotato]

That’s just a really dumb standard to hold.

“You can steal things with gloves on and it’s not a crime, but if you don’t wear gloves it’s a crime”

You still stole. Rules that condemn a supposedly unethical result but allow that supposedly unethical result in some areas but not in others aren’t respectable. I think most agree, and I bet this rule gets changed very soon.

But there is no “punishment C”… it’s a subjective punishment, and clearly the rogue Big 10 (not the NCAA) went heavy handed, AND was super shady giving their ruling at 4pm on Friday on Veterans Day while the team was traveling so that Michigan couldn’t file an injunction.

Anyone who has a brain can see the conspiring and intent here.

Take it up with the NCAA. The rule has been in effect since 95 so it’s not like Michigan wasn’t aware of it and they didn’t accidentally violate it. I get it. It’s a dumb rule. It’s also dumb that it’s not against the rules to acquire the signs other ways but that is the case. No one is “picking on” Michigan. They are in trouble due to their own actions. The coaching staff has no one to blame but themselves. If I were a fan of Michigan I’d be pissed at Harbaugh and the other coaches not the BIG10 or the NCAA. No one in either of those 2 entities drug members of the Michigan coaching staff to other teams games in violation of that rule over the last several years. You’re mad at the wrong people. Those enforcing the rules instead of those who broke them.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Take it up with the NCAA. The rule has been in effect since 95 so it’s not like Michigan wasn’t aware of it and they didn’t accidentally violate it. I get it. It’s a dumb rule. It’s also dumb that it’s not against the rules to acquire the signs other ways but that is the case. No one is “picking on” Michigan. They are in trouble due to their own actions. The coaching staff has no one to blame but themselves. If I were a fan of Michigan I’d be pissed at Harbaugh and the other coaches not the BIG10 or the NCAA. No one in either of those 2 entities drug members of the Michigan coaching staff to other teams games in violation of that rule over the last several years. You’re mad at the wrong people. Those enforcing the rules instead of those who broke them.

You keep talking as if anyone is denying a rule was technically broken. I'm not, nobody is. What I'm discussing is the context, how common it is for the result to occur, and a just penalty.

Once you want to discuss that, let me know.

 

[sealybobo]

Take it up with the NCAA. The rule has been in effect since 95 so it’s not like Michigan wasn’t aware of it and they didn’t accidentally violate it. I get it. It’s a dumb rule. It’s also dumb that it’s not against the rules to acquire the signs other ways but that is the case. No one is “picking on” Michigan. They are in trouble due to their own actions. The coaching staff has no one to blame but themselves. If I were a fan of Michigan I’d be pissed at Harbaugh and the other coaches not the BIG10 or the NCAA. No one in either of those 2 entities drug members of the Michigan coaching staff to other teams games in violation of that rule over the last several years. You’re mad at the wrong people. Those enforcing the rules instead of those who broke them.

Yea I’m pissed at Jim for giving us a top 4 team in the country. Undefeated this late in the year.

If you would have told us 2 years before harbaugh that we’d be in this position I think we would have taken the deal

 

[Couchpotato]

You keep talking as if anyone is denying a rule was technically broken. I'm not, nobody is. What I'm discussing is the context, how common it is for the result to occur, and a just penalty.

It could have something to do with the fact that you keep saying things like Michigan "technically" violated NCAA rules. They didn't technically violate the rules they 100% violated them and did so on purpose. You act like one of their coaches who is a Purdue alum went to a Purdue game and the NCAA is trying to make the case that they violated the rules. That would be technically violating that rule. That's not even close to what Michigan was doing.

The "result" is not the issue. Like I have already pointed out numerous times it's not against the rules to possess another teams' signs or to "steal" them by figuring them out or to give them to other teams if you so choose. Everyone knew this, it's been the case for decades. Everyone besides Michigan seemed to be able to follow the rules in this regard. The reason for this is simple. If I know the methods you are allowed to use to attempt to steal my signs I can do things to prevent it. And if everyone plays by those rules so there is no competitive edge. If a team goes outside those rules they gain a competitive edge that all the teams who are following the rules don't have. It's no different than what the Astros were doing to steal signs. That's what Michigan did. That's why what they did was cheating. That's why they are being punished and that's why all your talk about it being like jaywalking is pure unadulterated BULLSHIT.

As far as the punishment goes. It's 3 games. What do you think they should get for cheating? Do you have some comparable offense by another team in the BIG10 where they received a much lesser punishment? Earlier this year Michigan suspended Harbaugh for 3 games for a minor recruiting violation. What should the punishment be? I think he's getting off easy at 3 games. Michigan will be lucky if they arent barred from the CFP.

Once you want to discuss that, let me know.

 

[Couchpotato]

Yea I’m pissed at Jim for giving us a top 4 team in the country. Undefeated this late in the year.

If you would have told us 2 years before harbaugh that we’d be in this position I think we would have taken the deal

You should be pissed that he put that talent in jeopardy by allowing a stupid program like this to exist under his watch. Michigan could win the National Championship this year and have it vacated by the NCAA. The NCAA could bar them from the CFP this year. The committee might decide they arent going to put them in there for fear that the NCAA will bar them. They might lose to OSU because Harbaugh isnt on the sideline coaching. Michigan's football program will get set back significantly if that happens. Harbaugh might get fired or quit for the NFL, if that happens then where will Michigan Football be? Back to what they were before he got there. Also ran to OSU in the BIG10. Especially with the USC and the PAC12 members coming over next year.