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It's actually not discrimination. If you're willing to put a bride and groom on a cake for a gay couple, you've offered them IDENTICAL service to what you gave the straight couple.
Don't be obtuse. Of course it's discrimination. The question is whether government should be in charge of regulating discrimination.
If not the government, then whom, business?
Neither? I guess it's inconceivable to you that discrimination is a deeply personal issue, and not something that should be subject to 'regulation'.
Wrong, it's a legal issue.
The Right to Refuse Service: Can a Business Refuse Service to Someone?
Only because you ass napkins made it one.
What the fuck do you mean " sort out some for herself?" Are you actually a woman? Do you know that it can be expensive? Do you understand the benefits beyond birth control:She’s so dumb she’ll risk illness or pregnancy rather than sort out some birth control for herself? And you think that’s someone else’s responsibility/fault?Yes it is. It may put that woman at risk of illness or an unwanted pregnancy (How do you feel about abortion?)Not offering birth control as compensation isn't treating others badly.
We're going to defeat you in the USSC.Yep, I do....how's that working out for you in getting rid of your state's PA laws?Giving money to Christian lawyers working on the Supreme Court caseThen...what have you actively been doing to get this so-called bad PA law repealed in your state?Yes. Just because a law is passed doesn't mean it's good law for everyone. When a law causes harm to one innocent person, it's bad law.I don't give a shit about bogus legal distinctions. Discrimination is every person's right - arguably a responsibility. We shouldn't let government tell us how to do it "properly".
The law is bogus?
I donate to The American Center for Law and Justice. Do you know who they are?Then...what have you actively been doing to get this so-called bad PA law repealed in your state?Yes. Just because a law is passed doesn't mean it's good law for everyone. When a law causes harm to one innocent person, it's bad law.I don't give a shit about bogus legal distinctions. Discrimination is every person's right - arguably a responsibility. We shouldn't let government tell us how to do it "properly".
The law is bogus?
One is one too many. Don't like it when citizens stand up, do ya.Imagine all those christian businesses destroyed.....what is it? In the 1000s? 100,000s?The activists and their queer friends are always crying about others forcing their beliefs on them, then the asswipes go out of their way to target Christian businesses and destroy them if they don't submit. Hypocritical trash. Don't compromise with the vermin. Destroy them.
Firstly, there's nothing in the Bible that says "thou shalt not put two grooms on the wedding game."
What it says in the Bible has to do with STONING. Now, these people have managed to take stoning in the Bible and ignore it because they don't stone gay people or Blasphemous people or the like.
But the Bible gives the SAME punishment, whether you want to carry out the punishment in the name of your religion or not, to Blasphemy, gay sex, rebellious sons and those who work on the Sabbath.
Now, do these religious people treat ALL of these people the same? No, they don't. They do NOT refuse to serve blasphemous people (they might if they did it in their shop, but the gay people aren't fucking in their shop, so the comparable is that they're blasphemous outside of the shop), they do not refuse to serve rebellious sons, they do not refuse to serve those who work on the Sabbath, but they DO refuse to serve gay people.
Why?
My only thought can be that they're using the Bible to protect their bigoted views, rather than having a consistent view of the Bible.
Yes, sure, how you define equality and rights is important.
I mean, there are people on here who think that black people shouldn't have rights. I think that if black people don't have rights, then there aren't any rights, only privileges.
Equality is equality under the law. Laws are equal for all, who you are makes no difference to how the law plays out for you.
Your problem is that you're trying to say that everyone can operate their business as they see fit.
You could ban black people, or have a separate room for black people. You could demand that women cover their faces. You could do a lot of really shitty things, and people would. We know this. They did it under segregation.
If 69% of the population is Christian, and Christians choose to not serve gay people, and then say this is equal, then they're fucking idiots. I'm sorry. I don't like insulting people, but really, it pisses me off immensely.
For me to call them idiots is far less than what they want to do. The same for those people who had black people using separate services. It's just plain wrong and there's no way around that.
The problem is, you want some businesses to have public accommodation laws, and other business to not.
Essential services. "Hey there n*gger, I'll sell your slimy jumped up ass a loaf of bread, because I'm the only seller of bread for 20 miles around here, but you'll have to crawl all the way up here."
You think that would be acceptable?
No, you either have public accommodation laws that are EQUAL FOR ALL PEOPLE based on how they were born, or you don't and you live in a backwards "shithole" as Trump would call it.
If you advertise that you do a particular service, then this service MUST BE OPEN to all people, unless of course they've done something to prove that you don't have to serve them that has nothing to do with how they were born.
You don't have to advertise certain services.
"Hey, I want Garfield on my cake" "I'm sorry sir, but we don't do putting things on cakes."
Who's hurt.
"Hey, I want two grooms on my cake for my wedding" "I'm sorry sir, but I'm a bigot and we won't be serving you"
THIS HURTS PEOPLE. It makes people feel like they're SECOND CLASS CITIZENS in their own country. Unacceptable.
You can stop interpreting Christianity. Your interpretation has no bearing on peoples' freedom to practice their religion. The entire idea of that freedom was that people shouldn't be told what is or isn't a valid interpretation of their own faith, so all of your opinions about what is or isn't valid Christianity are utterly meaningless to this conversation. Whether they ignore half or all of the bible and call it Christianity, that's up to them, not you.
Next up, I actually don't want some businesses to have public accommodations laws. As a principal, I don't like the idea of telling people how they have to operate their own property. I'm willing to concede that point in cases where actual injury or death might occur from discrimination.
I specify "actual" because -FEELING- like a 2nd class citizen isn't an actual injury. -BEING- a 2nd class citizen would mean that the law itself explicitly favors some other class of human being more than it favors you, so someone not making you the cake you want doesn't -actually- make you a 2nd class citizen. Therefore, if you -feel- like a 2nd class citizen as a result of the baker turning down your request, that's an errant emotion, and I don't see why some 3rd party should be responsible for anyone's errant emotions.
If 69 percent of the population and they all, to a person, decided they wouldn't serve gay people, that would be quite a fucking turn of events. You know what wouldn't protect people in that situation? The law. Why, you ask? Because if 69 percent of the country didn't want to serve gay people, that law wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of staying on the books in a nation with a democratic process.
This also means that the very fact that the public accommodations laws have never been upturned implies that this worry that allowing bakers to do business only with whom they wish would result in gay people not being able to get cake is extremely hyperbolic. The majority of business owners in general are more concerned with profiting than they are with avoiding certain identity types.
So, I can say I'm a Christian and say that God hates black people and then I can hide behind the Bible as I go around segregating?
Seriously?
Go around segregating? Lol. When did I make the argument that the bakers should be allowed to go out into their community and dictate where homosexuals can and cannot live or go to school?
No, but what you ought to be able to do, in my opinion, is say "I built this business. It is mine. I will operate it as I wish and do business with whom I wish and not for anything less than the price that I determine." That's what you ought to be able to do, whether you're Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Hindu, Buddhist, Agnostic, or a worshipper of the Flying Spaghetti Monster like me.
What do you think will happen?
69% of the population is Christian. If Christians can pick and choose who they serve, and they decide to stop serving gay people, then large swaths of the country will be no go areas for gay people.
That's segregation.
Ignore it to your heart's content, but that's the reality of what we're talking about.
Also, we know this can happen because IT HAPPENED ALREADY. Remember 1865-1952?
Good post and thank you. But may I add that while 69% of the population may be Christian, this anti-gay stuff is the belief of only a limited number of specific sects and is in no way representative of the entirety of the Christian faith.
No one is entitled to pick and choose whom they will serve in a business capacity, and the true abomination is the effort to fence an innocent group of people out of our society based on someone else's whim. Allowing discrimination anytime, anywhere, by anyone would create chaos in our huge country.
BTW: does anyone remember the "curse of Ham" bullshit that those whites who pretended to be Christians slung at African-descended people for hundreds of years? Oh, that was "from the bible," too.
Are Black People Cursed? The Curse of Ham - Resources - Eternal Perspective Ministries
No, because being a black person isn't a sin in the bible. Homosexuality is an abomination to God in the bible. You're an ignorant idiot.So, I can say I'm a Christian and say that God hates black people and then I can hide behind the Bible as I go around segregating?
Seriously?
but if you're not committing the gay sin how is baking a cake for someone who is gay a sin?
None. Of. Your. Business.
Maybe you should write this down, because you absolutely SUCK at remembering to quit being a nosy, controlling busybody.
Still not an answer to what is a very simple question
And it happens to be a relevant question because that is the argument used by the bakers as a reason why they refuse to serve gay sinners but will serve any other sinners willing to pay for their wares.
Why is the gay sin so much worse than all the other sins committed by their customers?
No, and it's not GOING to be an answer to your question, because you're not entitled to one. It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. "What color panties are you wearing?" is also a simple question, but I wouldn't answer THAT, either, because it's personal and it assumes that it is okay for you to ask things that are NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
Speaking of simple things, why can't YOU understand a simple concept like minding your own business?
If the baker wants to engage in this conversation, then feel free to go ask him. THIS particular debate, however, is with ME, and MY position is that the First Amendment guarantees me the right to exercise my religious beliefs without any need whatsoever to explain, justify, or ask approval for them.
Decide who you want to talk to, and make it so.
Think so, huh? How'd that AZ ruling work out for you today?We're going to defeat you in the USSC.Yep, I do....how's that working out for you in getting rid of your state's PA laws?Giving money to Christian lawyers working on the Supreme Court caseThen...what have you actively been doing to get this so-called bad PA law repealed in your state?Yes. Just because a law is passed doesn't mean it's good law for everyone. When a law causes harm to one innocent person, it's bad law.The law is bogus?
I donate to The American Center for Law and Justice. Do you know who they are?Then...what have you actively been doing to get this so-called bad PA law repealed in your state?Yes. Just because a law is passed doesn't mean it's good law for everyone. When a law causes harm to one innocent person, it's bad law.The law is bogus?
Stand up? You call it standing up when a business whines about being persecuted because they don't want to follow the business laws they promised to when receiving their business license? Standing up? I call it being whiny, lying bigot. If I had my way, it would all be solved by just taking their business licenses away.One is one too many. Don't like it when citizens stand up, do ya.Imagine all those christian businesses destroyed.....what is it? In the 1000s? 100,000s?The activists and their queer friends are always crying about others forcing their beliefs on them, then the asswipes go out of their way to target Christian businesses and destroy them if they don't submit. Hypocritical trash. Don't compromise with the vermin. Destroy them.
I believe that the Constitution is the Supreme law of the land. I don't believe same-sex marriage is a right. Why don't you show me in the Constitution where marriage is a right.No, because being a black person isn't a sin in the bible. Homosexuality is an abomination to God in the bible. You're an ignorant idiot.
but if you're not committing the gay sin how is baking a cake for someone who is gay a sin?
None. Of. Your. Business.
Maybe you should write this down, because you absolutely SUCK at remembering to quit being a nosy, controlling busybody.
Still not an answer to what is a very simple question
And it happens to be a relevant question because that is the argument used by the bakers as a reason why they refuse to serve gay sinners but will serve any other sinners willing to pay for their wares.
Why is the gay sin so much worse than all the other sins committed by their customers?
No, and it's not GOING to be an answer to your question, because you're not entitled to one. It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. "What color panties are you wearing?" is also a simple question, but I wouldn't answer THAT, either, because it's personal and it assumes that it is okay for you to ask things that are NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
Speaking of simple things, why can't YOU understand a simple concept like minding your own business?
If the baker wants to engage in this conversation, then feel free to go ask him. THIS particular debate, however, is with ME, and MY position is that the First Amendment guarantees me the right to exercise my religious beliefs without any need whatsoever to explain, justify, or ask approval for them.
Decide who you want to talk to, and make it so.
Do you think your right to religious freedom is absolute and trumps other rights?
Playing coy again. A ruling in Arizona means something in Arizona temporarily. Nothing more. We're going to win in the USSC.Think so, huh? How'd that AZ ruling work out for you today?We're going to defeat you in the USSC.Yep, I do....how's that working out for you in getting rid of your state's PA laws?Giving money to Christian lawyers working on the Supreme Court caseThen...what have you actively been doing to get this so-called bad PA law repealed in your state?Yes. Just because a law is passed doesn't mean it's good law for everyone. When a law causes harm to one innocent person, it's bad law.
I donate to The American Center for Law and Justice. Do you know who they are?Then...what have you actively been doing to get this so-called bad PA law repealed in your state?Yes. Just because a law is passed doesn't mean it's good law for everyone. When a law causes harm to one innocent person, it's bad law.
Stand up? You call it standing up when a business whines about being persecuted because they don't want to follow the business laws they promised to when receiving their business license? Standing up? I call it being whiny, lying bigot. If I had my way, it would all be solved by just taking their business licenses away.One is one too many. Don't like it when citizens stand up, do ya.Imagine all those christian businesses destroyed.....what is it? In the 1000s? 100,000s?The activists and their queer friends are always crying about others forcing their beliefs on them, then the asswipes go out of their way to target Christian businesses and destroy them if they don't submit. Hypocritical trash. Don't compromise with the vermin. Destroy them.
If I had my way, it would all be solved by just taking their business licenses away.
Marriage is offered by the state with over 1000 rights/privileges that go with it...per the 14th Amendment, the state cannot offer civil marriage to some groups of law abiding citizens and deny it to others.I believe that the Constitution is the Supreme law of the land. I don't believe same-sex marriage is a right. Why don't you show me in the Constitution where marriage is a right.but if you're not committing the gay sin how is baking a cake for someone who is gay a sin?
None. Of. Your. Business.
Maybe you should write this down, because you absolutely SUCK at remembering to quit being a nosy, controlling busybody.
Still not an answer to what is a very simple question
And it happens to be a relevant question because that is the argument used by the bakers as a reason why they refuse to serve gay sinners but will serve any other sinners willing to pay for their wares.
Why is the gay sin so much worse than all the other sins committed by their customers?
No, and it's not GOING to be an answer to your question, because you're not entitled to one. It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. "What color panties are you wearing?" is also a simple question, but I wouldn't answer THAT, either, because it's personal and it assumes that it is okay for you to ask things that are NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
Speaking of simple things, why can't YOU understand a simple concept like minding your own business?
If the baker wants to engage in this conversation, then feel free to go ask him. THIS particular debate, however, is with ME, and MY position is that the First Amendment guarantees me the right to exercise my religious beliefs without any need whatsoever to explain, justify, or ask approval for them.
Decide who you want to talk to, and make it so.
Do you think your right to religious freedom is absolute and trumps other rights?
Of course, that's because you're a fascist and don't believe in Constitutional rights for Christians.Stand up? You call it standing up when a business whines about being persecuted because they don't want to follow the business laws they promised to when receiving their business license? Standing up? I call it being whiny, lying bigot. If I had my way, it would all be solved by just taking their business licenses away.One is one too many. Don't like it when citizens stand up, do ya.Imagine all those christian businesses destroyed.....what is it? In the 1000s? 100,000s?The activists and their queer friends are always crying about others forcing their beliefs on them, then the asswipes go out of their way to target Christian businesses and destroy them if they don't submit. Hypocritical trash. Don't compromise with the vermin. Destroy them.
You lefties love to mangle and twist the 14th Amendment. Do you know what the 14th Amendment was for?Marriage is offered by the state with over 1000 rights/privileges that go with it...per the 14th Amendment, the state cannot offer civil marriage to some groups of law abiding citizens and deny it to others.I believe that the Constitution is the Supreme law of the land. I don't believe same-sex marriage is a right. Why don't you show me in the Constitution where marriage is a right.None. Of. Your. Business.
Maybe you should write this down, because you absolutely SUCK at remembering to quit being a nosy, controlling busybody.
Still not an answer to what is a very simple question
And it happens to be a relevant question because that is the argument used by the bakers as a reason why they refuse to serve gay sinners but will serve any other sinners willing to pay for their wares.
Why is the gay sin so much worse than all the other sins committed by their customers?
No, and it's not GOING to be an answer to your question, because you're not entitled to one. It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. "What color panties are you wearing?" is also a simple question, but I wouldn't answer THAT, either, because it's personal and it assumes that it is okay for you to ask things that are NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
Speaking of simple things, why can't YOU understand a simple concept like minding your own business?
If the baker wants to engage in this conversation, then feel free to go ask him. THIS particular debate, however, is with ME, and MY position is that the First Amendment guarantees me the right to exercise my religious beliefs without any need whatsoever to explain, justify, or ask approval for them.
Decide who you want to talk to, and make it so.
Do you think your right to religious freedom is absolute and trumps other rights?
I'm sure you believe what you just posted....it's the sign of a not very bright person.Stand up? You call it standing up when a business whines about being persecuted because they don't want to follow the business laws they promised to when receiving their business license? Standing up? I call it being whiny, lying bigot. If I had my way, it would all be solved by just taking their business licenses away.One is one too many. Don't like it when citizens stand up, do ya.Imagine all those christian businesses destroyed.....what is it? In the 1000s? 100,000s?The activists and their queer friends are always crying about others forcing their beliefs on them, then the asswipes go out of their way to target Christian businesses and destroy them if they don't submit. Hypocritical trash. Don't compromise with the vermin. Destroy them.If I had my way, it would all be solved by just taking their business licenses away.
Oh my, what would you have to complain about then? And what would happen if homos can't bake?
The 14th amendment was for several things...because if you'd ever read it, you'd notice it has more than one clause.You lefties love to mangle and twist the 14th Amendment. Do you know what the 14th Amendment was for?Marriage is offered by the state with over 1000 rights/privileges that go with it...per the 14th Amendment, the state cannot offer civil marriage to some groups of law abiding citizens and deny it to others.I believe that the Constitution is the Supreme law of the land. I don't believe same-sex marriage is a right. Why don't you show me in the Constitution where marriage is a right.Still not an answer to what is a very simple question
And it happens to be a relevant question because that is the argument used by the bakers as a reason why they refuse to serve gay sinners but will serve any other sinners willing to pay for their wares.
Why is the gay sin so much worse than all the other sins committed by their customers?
No, and it's not GOING to be an answer to your question, because you're not entitled to one. It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. "What color panties are you wearing?" is also a simple question, but I wouldn't answer THAT, either, because it's personal and it assumes that it is okay for you to ask things that are NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
Speaking of simple things, why can't YOU understand a simple concept like minding your own business?
If the baker wants to engage in this conversation, then feel free to go ask him. THIS particular debate, however, is with ME, and MY position is that the First Amendment guarantees me the right to exercise my religious beliefs without any need whatsoever to explain, justify, or ask approval for them.
Decide who you want to talk to, and make it so.
Do you think your right to religious freedom is absolute and trumps other rights?
I'm sure you believe what you just posted....it's the sign of a not very bright person.Stand up? You call it standing up when a business whines about being persecuted because they don't want to follow the business laws they promised to when receiving their business license? Standing up? I call it being whiny, lying bigot. If I had my way, it would all be solved by just taking their business licenses away.One is one too many. Don't like it when citizens stand up, do ya.Imagine all those christian businesses destroyed.....what is it? In the 1000s? 100,000s?The activists and their queer friends are always crying about others forcing their beliefs on them, then the asswipes go out of their way to target Christian businesses and destroy them if they don't submit. Hypocritical trash. Don't compromise with the vermin. Destroy them.If I had my way, it would all be solved by just taking their business licenses away.
Oh my, what would you have to complain about then? And what would happen if homos can't bake?
If that is the case, we have a lot in common.not very bright person.
Supreme Court against the Colorado Civil Rights Commission
