Why Must We Abandon Our Religious Beliefs to Operate A Business?

[BS Filter]

Yes, but a business license doesn't mean you have to abandon your religious beliefs to submit to perverts.

Your religious based bigotry is duly noted.

For-profit means just that. You are not in it for the sake of morals or you would be doing business on a not-for-profit basis.

That's strictly your opinion. However, there is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that states citizens must abandon their religious beliefs when doing business. Christophobic bigot.

Only if you appeal to ignorance in a vacuum of special pleading. Everyone has a First Amendment, not just bakers.

You're confused here. You can't force anyone to deny their religious beliefs.

Why are bakers?

You're very confused.

 

[BS Filter]

Which is ridiculous. They should be no more "bound" than anyone else, and enjoy all the same rights. I know it's practically the statist national anthem, but opening a business is not an oath to "serve the public".

A business license implies adherence to some fixed Standards.

Yes, but a business license doesn't mean you have to abandon your religious beliefs to submit to perverts.

Your religious based bigotry is duly noted.

For-profit means just that. You are not in it for the sake of morals or you would be doing business on a not-for-profit basis.

That's strictly your opinion. However, there is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that states citizens must abandon their religious beliefs when doing business. Christophobic bigot.

Only if you appeal to ignorance in a vacuum of special pleading. Everyone has a First Amendment, not just bakers.

Never said they didn't. You're flailing now.

 

[WinterBorn]

Specifically, what constitutional right is being overridden?

Yes, you are asking to be exempt from antidiscrimination laws that apply to public businesses. If you don't want to follow the rules & laws, get out of a business that is open to the public.

Amazing. The first amendment. ...."free exercise thereof". Do you understand that phrase?

And baking a cake or abiding by rules you agreed to follow is stopping you from freely exercising your religion? How is that? You are not becoming a homosexual. You are not marrying someone of the same gender. You are baking a freakin cake. Thats it.

Of course, when you buy your business license you agree to follow all relevant federal state and local laws concerning the business. Does backing out of that agreement not constitute lying? THAT is an act that is actually against your religion.

Look up "civil disobedience", dimwit.

I know what civil disobedience means. But if you go that route, don't whine about the consequences.

Likewise. Y'all need to remember that conservative Christians are well armed.

If you want to take up arms, you are free to do so. But, like I said, don't whine about the consequences.

 

[BS Filter]

Amazing. The first amendment. ...."free exercise thereof". Do you understand that phrase?

And baking a cake or abiding by rules you agreed to follow is stopping you from freely exercising your religion? How is that? You are not becoming a homosexual. You are not marrying someone of the same gender. You are baking a freakin cake. Thats it.

Of course, when you buy your business license you agree to follow all relevant federal state and local laws concerning the business. Does backing out of that agreement not constitute lying? THAT is an act that is actually against your religion.

Look up "civil disobedience", dimwit.

I know what civil disobedience means. But if you go that route, don't whine about the consequences.

Likewise. Y'all need to remember that conservative Christians are well armed.

If you want to take up arms, you are free to do so. But, like I said, don't whine about the consequences.

If ya'll want to act like fascists, then be prepared for the consequences. This is America, not Nazi Germany.

 

[Taz]

And baking a cake or abiding by rules you agreed to follow is stopping you from freely exercising your religion? How is that? You are not becoming a homosexual. You are not marrying someone of the same gender. You are baking a freakin cake. Thats it.

Of course, when you buy your business license you agree to follow all relevant federal state and local laws concerning the business. Does backing out of that agreement not constitute lying? THAT is an act that is actually against your religion.

Look up "civil disobedience", dimwit.

I know what civil disobedience means. But if you go that route, don't whine about the consequences.

Likewise. Y'all need to remember that conservative Christians are well armed.

If you want to take up arms, you are free to do so. But, like I said, don't whine about the consequences.

If ya'll want to act like fascists, then be prepared for the consequences. This is America, not Nazi Germany.

Jesus wouldn't have a gun, and never had a weapon.

 

[WinterBorn]

And baking a cake or abiding by rules you agreed to follow is stopping you from freely exercising your religion? How is that? You are not becoming a homosexual. You are not marrying someone of the same gender. You are baking a freakin cake. Thats it.

Of course, when you buy your business license you agree to follow all relevant federal state and local laws concerning the business. Does backing out of that agreement not constitute lying? THAT is an act that is actually against your religion.

Look up "civil disobedience", dimwit.

I know what civil disobedience means. But if you go that route, don't whine about the consequences.

Likewise. Y'all need to remember that conservative Christians are well armed.

If you want to take up arms, you are free to do so. But, like I said, don't whine about the consequences.

If ya'll want to act like fascists, then be prepared for the consequences. This is America, not Nazi Germany.

Ok. If you think shooting people rather than making a cake or working to change a law is acceptable, then arm up. I don't see that as the answer to this particular question. But that is just my opinion.

I also don't think you will get enough numbers to make a difference. And the media will compare you to muslims wanting Sharia Law.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Public accommodations laws are necessary, proper, and Constitutional, in no manner violating the religious freedom of business owners.

Says you. And we all know how valuable YOUR opinion isn't.

Wrong.

Businesses open to the general public are subject to all manner of necessary, proper, and Constitutional regulatory measures as authorized by the Commerce Clause – including public accommodations laws.

States and local jurisdictions are at liberty to enact regulatory measures intended to maintain the stability of local markets and all other interrelated markets (Wickard v. Filburn (1942)).

Public accommodations laws with provisions for sexual orientation likewise seek to maintain the stability of local markets where businesses open to the general public refusing to accommodate gay or transgender patrons would be disruptive to the local market and create a hostile local business environment detrimental to efficient, profitable commerce.

That public accommodations laws regulating local markets and commerce might have the effect of prohibiting discriminatory practices by businesses open to the general public does not render them un-Constitutional, nor do they violate religious liberty (Heart of Atlanta Motel v. US (1964), Employment Division v. Smith (1990)).

Consequently, it has nothing to do with ‘my opinion’ – it’s the opinion of the Supreme Court, take it up with them.

 

[Taz]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I see much to criticize on both sides of the equation, myself.

If there are multiple bakers in town and a gay couple chooses one they know to be Christian just to fuck with them, who is really being the asshole, there, eh?

I see tolerance as a two way street, myself.

In general, I would say that a baker should not be required to write anything on a cake or create specific decorations, but if they normally offer a generic cake to a heterosexual couple ,it is their responsibility to offer it to a gay couple. If a gay couple know that a baker has deeply held religious beliefs and there are reasonable alternatives, it should be their responsibility to find a baker who is accommodating rather than making in-your-face demands.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I see much to criticize on both sides of the equation, myself.

If there are multiple bakers in town and a gay couple chooses one they know to be Christian just to fuck with them, who is really being the asshole, there, eh?

I see tolerance as a two way street, myself.

In general, I would say that a baker should not be required to write anything on a cake or create specific decorations, but if they normally offer a generic cake to a heterosexual couple ,it is their responsibility to offer it to a gay couple. If a gay couple know that a baker has deeply held religious beliefs and there are reasonable alternatives, it should be their responsibility to find a baker who is accommodating rather than making in-your-face demands.

There’s a more straightforward course of action: serve your gay customer in accordance with the law, knowing that to do so doesn’t ‘violate’ your Christian beliefs, and that the law doesn’t ‘violate’ your religious liberty.

 

[dblack]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

It doesn't make sense to me either. And, from what I know about Jesus, it doesn't sound like what he would do.

But why does that matter? Should bakers be legally required to be like Jesus? Should it be against the law to be a bigoted hypocrite?

I know this thread is mostly a pissing match between gay rights advocates and homophobes, but the principle at stake is very serious. Because our country began 'broken' (because it was built, in part, on a foundation of slavery), we've been lured down a path that has government dictating matters of conscience and personal association, and I think that's a really bad precedent.

The "protected classes" approach to civil rights law isn't about protecting equal rights. It's about targeting specific kinds of bias for suppression.

 

[Taz]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

It doesn't make sense to me either. And, from what I know about Jesus, it doesn't sound like what he would do.

But why does that matter? Should bakers should be legally required to be like Jesus? Should it be against the law to be a bigoted hypocrite?

I know this thread is mostly a pissing match between gay rights advocates and homophobes, but the principle at stake is very serious. Because our country began 'broken' (because it was built, in part, on a foundation of slavery), we've been lured down a path that has government dictating matters of conscience and personal association, and I think that's a really bad precedent.

The "protected classes" approach to civil rights law isn't about protecting equal rights. It's about targeting specific kinds of bias for suppression.

I can agree that if you open a business, you should be able to turn down customers for whatever reason you feel like. I'm just saying that economically, it makes no sense, and if done for religious reason, it also makes no sense, because Christians should be following Jesus, who never turned down anyone because they were gay. So like, get your fucking reasons straight, lol.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, I don't need to be exempt. I have the Constitution. You can't pass a law that overrides my Constitutional right. You still don't get it.

Specifically, what constitutional right is being overridden?

Yes, you are asking to be exempt from antidiscrimination laws that apply to public businesses. If you don't want to follow the rules & laws, get out of a business that is open to the public.

Amazing. The first amendment. ...."free exercise thereof". Do you understand that phrase?

And baking a cake or abiding by rules you agreed to follow is stopping you from freely exercising your religion? How is that? You are not becoming a homosexual. You are not marrying someone of the same gender. You are baking a freakin cake. Thats it.

Of course, when you buy your business license you agree to follow all relevant federal state and local laws concerning the business. Does backing out of that agreement not constitute lying? THAT is an act that is actually against your religion.

Look up "civil disobedience", dimwit.

I know what civil disobedience means. But if you go that route, don't whine about the consequences.

No one's "whining about the consequences", dumbass. We're following through on the entire POINT of civil disobedience, which is to point out that the law is wrong, and should be changed.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Specifically, what constitutional right is being overridden?

Yes, you are asking to be exempt from antidiscrimination laws that apply to public businesses. If you don't want to follow the rules & laws, get out of a business that is open to the public.

Amazing. The first amendment. ...."free exercise thereof". Do you understand that phrase?

And baking a cake or abiding by rules you agreed to follow is stopping you from freely exercising your religion? How is that? You are not becoming a homosexual. You are not marrying someone of the same gender. You are baking a freakin cake. Thats it.

Of course, when you buy your business license you agree to follow all relevant federal state and local laws concerning the business. Does backing out of that agreement not constitute lying? THAT is an act that is actually against your religion.

Look up "civil disobedience", dimwit.

I know what civil disobedience means. But if you go that route, don't whine about the consequences.

Likewise. Y'all need to remember that conservative Christians are well armed.

Nah. One of the weirdest cognitive dissonances of the left is that they harp on about what terrible people their opponents are, while depending on the goodness and decency of their opponents to get away with their egregious behavior.

 

[Taz]

Specifically, what constitutional right is being overridden?

Yes, you are asking to be exempt from antidiscrimination laws that apply to public businesses. If you don't want to follow the rules & laws, get out of a business that is open to the public.

Amazing. The first amendment. ...."free exercise thereof". Do you understand that phrase?

And baking a cake or abiding by rules you agreed to follow is stopping you from freely exercising your religion? How is that? You are not becoming a homosexual. You are not marrying someone of the same gender. You are baking a freakin cake. Thats it.

Of course, when you buy your business license you agree to follow all relevant federal state and local laws concerning the business. Does backing out of that agreement not constitute lying? THAT is an act that is actually against your religion.

Look up "civil disobedience", dimwit.

I know what civil disobedience means. But if you go that route, don't whine about the consequences.

No one's "whining about the consequences", dumbass. We're following through on the entire POINT of civil disobedience, which is to point out that the law is wrong, and should be changed.

Civil disobedience, you mean like in Ferguson?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Amazing. The first amendment. ...."free exercise thereof". Do you understand that phrase?

And baking a cake or abiding by rules you agreed to follow is stopping you from freely exercising your religion? How is that? You are not becoming a homosexual. You are not marrying someone of the same gender. You are baking a freakin cake. Thats it.

Of course, when you buy your business license you agree to follow all relevant federal state and local laws concerning the business. Does backing out of that agreement not constitute lying? THAT is an act that is actually against your religion.

Look up "civil disobedience", dimwit.

I know what civil disobedience means. But if you go that route, don't whine about the consequences.

Likewise. Y'all need to remember that conservative Christians are well armed.

If you want to take up arms, you are free to do so. But, like I said, don't whine about the consequences.

The "whining about the consequences" actually comes from the left, trying to run people's lives and force their beliefs on others, and then pitching hissy fits when they inevitably run into resistance.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Look up "civil disobedience", dimwit.

I know what civil disobedience means. But if you go that route, don't whine about the consequences.

Likewise. Y'all need to remember that conservative Christians are well armed.

If you want to take up arms, you are free to do so. But, like I said, don't whine about the consequences.

If ya'll want to act like fascists, then be prepared for the consequences. This is America, not Nazi Germany.

Jesus wouldn't have a gun, and never had a weapon.

Wrong again. Are you getting paid every time you make an erroneous statement?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

Off the top of my head, I'd say it's because you want to make cakes for regular, heterosexual couples.

And the baker never said a word about "I don't like faggots". That's just your projection, and tells us more about what lives in YOUR heart than what lives in his.

 

[Taz]

I know what civil disobedience means. But if you go that route, don't whine about the consequences.

Likewise. Y'all need to remember that conservative Christians are well armed.

If you want to take up arms, you are free to do so. But, like I said, don't whine about the consequences.

If ya'll want to act like fascists, then be prepared for the consequences. This is America, not Nazi Germany.

Jesus wouldn't have a gun, and never had a weapon.

Wrong again. Are you getting paid every time you make an erroneous statement?

Don't make me spank you badly again. Jesus wasn't packing.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

It doesn't make sense to me either. And, from what I know about Jesus, it doesn't sound like what he would do.

But why does that matter? Should bakers should be legally required to be like Jesus? Should it be against the law to be a bigoted hypocrite?

I know this thread is mostly a pissing match between gay rights advocates and homophobes, but the principle at stake is very serious. Because our country began 'broken' (because it was built, in part, on a foundation of slavery), we've been lured down a path that has government dictating matters of conscience and personal association, and I think that's a really bad precedent.

The "protected classes" approach to civil rights law isn't about protecting equal rights. It's about targeting specific kinds of bias for suppression.

I can agree that if you open a business, you should be able to turn down customers for whatever reason you feel like. I'm just saying that economically, it makes no sense, and if done for religious reason, it also makes no sense, because Christians should be following Jesus, who never turned down anyone because they were gay. So like, get your fucking reasons straight, lol.

So it's your job to mandate good business decisions now? And PLEASE stop citing to us your insane imaginings of who and what Jesus was. There is not a single person on this planet who would EVER ask you for religious advice, or be stupid enough to value it when it's given without request.