Why Must We Abandon Our Religious Beliefs to Operate A Business?

[Cecilie1200]

Amazing. The first amendment. ...."free exercise thereof". Do you understand that phrase?

And baking a cake or abiding by rules you agreed to follow is stopping you from freely exercising your religion? How is that? You are not becoming a homosexual. You are not marrying someone of the same gender. You are baking a freakin cake. Thats it.

Of course, when you buy your business license you agree to follow all relevant federal state and local laws concerning the business. Does backing out of that agreement not constitute lying? THAT is an act that is actually against your religion.

Look up "civil disobedience", dimwit.

I know what civil disobedience means. But if you go that route, don't whine about the consequences.

No one's "whining about the consequences", dumbass. We're following through on the entire POINT of civil disobedience, which is to point out that the law is wrong, and should be changed.

Civil disobedience, you mean like in Ferguson?

What part of the word "civil" did you need explained, dimwit?

 

[Taz]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

Off the top of my head, I'd say it's because you want to make cakes for regular, heterosexual couples.

And the baker never said a word about "I don't like faggots". That's just your projection, and tells us more about what lives in YOUR heart than what lives in his.

He doesn't like gays so he wouldn't bake them a cake.

 

[WinterBorn]

Specifically, what constitutional right is being overridden?

Yes, you are asking to be exempt from antidiscrimination laws that apply to public businesses. If you don't want to follow the rules & laws, get out of a business that is open to the public.

Amazing. The first amendment. ...."free exercise thereof". Do you understand that phrase?

And baking a cake or abiding by rules you agreed to follow is stopping you from freely exercising your religion? How is that? You are not becoming a homosexual. You are not marrying someone of the same gender. You are baking a freakin cake. Thats it.

Of course, when you buy your business license you agree to follow all relevant federal state and local laws concerning the business. Does backing out of that agreement not constitute lying? THAT is an act that is actually against your religion.

Look up "civil disobedience", dimwit.

I know what civil disobedience means. But if you go that route, don't whine about the consequences.

No one's "whining about the consequences", dumbass. We're following through on the entire POINT of civil disobedience, which is to point out that the law is wrong, and should be changed.

Ok then, when you get a big fine, just pay it and keep going. Or work on changing the law, bitch.

 

[dblack]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

It doesn't make sense to me either. And, from what I know about Jesus, it doesn't sound like what he would do.

But why does that matter? Should bakers should be legally required to be like Jesus? Should it be against the law to be a bigoted hypocrite?

I know this thread is mostly a pissing match between gay rights advocates and homophobes, but the principle at stake is very serious. Because our country began 'broken' (because it was built, in part, on a foundation of slavery), we've been lured down a path that has government dictating matters of conscience and personal association, and I think that's a really bad precedent.

The "protected classes" approach to civil rights law isn't about protecting equal rights. It's about targeting specific kinds of bias for suppression.

I can agree that if you open a business, you should be able to turn down customers for whatever reason you feel like. I'm just saying that economically, it makes no sense, and if done for religious reason, it also makes no sense, because Christians should be following Jesus, who never turned down anyone because they were gay. So like, get your fucking reasons straight, lol.

Why? Why do they have to have their reasons straight? Is it the job of government to make sure we are reasoning properly?

 

[Taz]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

It doesn't make sense to me either. And, from what I know about Jesus, it doesn't sound like what he would do.

But why does that matter? Should bakers should be legally required to be like Jesus? Should it be against the law to be a bigoted hypocrite?

I know this thread is mostly a pissing match between gay rights advocates and homophobes, but the principle at stake is very serious. Because our country began 'broken' (because it was built, in part, on a foundation of slavery), we've been lured down a path that has government dictating matters of conscience and personal association, and I think that's a really bad precedent.

The "protected classes" approach to civil rights law isn't about protecting equal rights. It's about targeting specific kinds of bias for suppression.

I can agree that if you open a business, you should be able to turn down customers for whatever reason you feel like. I'm just saying that economically, it makes no sense, and if done for religious reason, it also makes no sense, because Christians should be following Jesus, who never turned down anyone because they were gay. So like, get your fucking reasons straight, lol.

So it's your job to mandate good business decisions now? And PLEASE stop citing to us your insane imaginings of who and what Jesus was. There is not a single person on this planet who would EVER ask you for religious advice, or be stupid enough to value it when it's given without request.

Jesus was likely gay himself, so wouldn't have turned down a gay person for food...
And it's dumb to open up a business and not serve everyone. So start baking those cakes, you grumpy old bitch.

 

[Taz]

And baking a cake or abiding by rules you agreed to follow is stopping you from freely exercising your religion? How is that? You are not becoming a homosexual. You are not marrying someone of the same gender. You are baking a freakin cake. Thats it.

Of course, when you buy your business license you agree to follow all relevant federal state and local laws concerning the business. Does backing out of that agreement not constitute lying? THAT is an act that is actually against your religion.

Look up "civil disobedience", dimwit.

I know what civil disobedience means. But if you go that route, don't whine about the consequences.

No one's "whining about the consequences", dumbass. We're following through on the entire POINT of civil disobedience, which is to point out that the law is wrong, and should be changed.

Civil disobedience, you mean like in Ferguson?

What part of the word "civil" did you need explained, dimwit?

So it's civil to be openly anti-gay?

 

[WinterBorn]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

It doesn't make sense to me either. And, from what I know about Jesus, it doesn't sound like what he would do.

But why does that matter? Should bakers should be legally required to be like Jesus? Should it be against the law to be a bigoted hypocrite?

I know this thread is mostly a pissing match between gay rights advocates and homophobes, but the principle at stake is very serious. Because our country began 'broken' (because it was built, in part, on a foundation of slavery), we've been lured down a path that has government dictating matters of conscience and personal association, and I think that's a really bad precedent.

The "protected classes" approach to civil rights law isn't about protecting equal rights. It's about targeting specific kinds of bias for suppression.

I can agree that if you open a business, you should be able to turn down customers for whatever reason you feel like. I'm just saying that economically, it makes no sense, and if done for religious reason, it also makes no sense, because Christians should be following Jesus, who never turned down anyone because they were gay. So like, get your fucking reasons straight, lol.

Why? Why do that have to have their reasons straight? Is it the job of government to make sure we are reasoning properly?

Isn't it the job of the gov't to insure it's citizens are treated fairly? Seems reasonable to me.

 

[Taz]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

It doesn't make sense to me either. And, from what I know about Jesus, it doesn't sound like what he would do.

But why does that matter? Should bakers should be legally required to be like Jesus? Should it be against the law to be a bigoted hypocrite?

I know this thread is mostly a pissing match between gay rights advocates and homophobes, but the principle at stake is very serious. Because our country began 'broken' (because it was built, in part, on a foundation of slavery), we've been lured down a path that has government dictating matters of conscience and personal association, and I think that's a really bad precedent.

The "protected classes" approach to civil rights law isn't about protecting equal rights. It's about targeting specific kinds of bias for suppression.

I can agree that if you open a business, you should be able to turn down customers for whatever reason you feel like. I'm just saying that economically, it makes no sense, and if done for religious reason, it also makes no sense, because Christians should be following Jesus, who never turned down anyone because they were gay. So like, get your fucking reasons straight, lol.

Why? Why do they have to have their reasons straight? Is it the job of government to make sure we are reasoning properly?

No, but if you don't want to look like a fool, you should have a real reason. Ya, I know, they're too stupid to know how stupid they are. Same old, same old...

 

[dblack]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

It doesn't make sense to me either. And, from what I know about Jesus, it doesn't sound like what he would do.

But why does that matter? Should bakers should be legally required to be like Jesus? Should it be against the law to be a bigoted hypocrite?

I know this thread is mostly a pissing match between gay rights advocates and homophobes, but the principle at stake is very serious. Because our country began 'broken' (because it was built, in part, on a foundation of slavery), we've been lured down a path that has government dictating matters of conscience and personal association, and I think that's a really bad precedent.

The "protected classes" approach to civil rights law isn't about protecting equal rights. It's about targeting specific kinds of bias for suppression.

I can agree that if you open a business, you should be able to turn down customers for whatever reason you feel like. I'm just saying that economically, it makes no sense, and if done for religious reason, it also makes no sense, because Christians should be following Jesus, who never turned down anyone because they were gay. So like, get your fucking reasons straight, lol.

Why? Why do they have to have their reasons straight? Is it the job of government to make sure we are reasoning properly?

No, but if you don't want to look like a fool, you should have a real reason. Ya, I know, they're too stupid to know how stupid they are. Same old, same old...

Yes. I agree they look like fools. The question is whether it should be illegal to look like a fool.

 

[Taz]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

It doesn't make sense to me either. And, from what I know about Jesus, it doesn't sound like what he would do.

But why does that matter? Should bakers should be legally required to be like Jesus? Should it be against the law to be a bigoted hypocrite?

I know this thread is mostly a pissing match between gay rights advocates and homophobes, but the principle at stake is very serious. Because our country began 'broken' (because it was built, in part, on a foundation of slavery), we've been lured down a path that has government dictating matters of conscience and personal association, and I think that's a really bad precedent.

The "protected classes" approach to civil rights law isn't about protecting equal rights. It's about targeting specific kinds of bias for suppression.

I can agree that if you open a business, you should be able to turn down customers for whatever reason you feel like. I'm just saying that economically, it makes no sense, and if done for religious reason, it also makes no sense, because Christians should be following Jesus, who never turned down anyone because they were gay. So like, get your fucking reasons straight, lol.

Why? Why do that have to have their reasons straight? Is it the job of government to make sure we are reasoning properly?

Isn't it the job of the gov't to insure it's citizens are treated fairly? Seems reasonable to me.

Treated fairly by the government sure, but to be the arbiter of every private citizen's dealings? No.

 

[WinterBorn]

And baking a cake or abiding by rules you agreed to follow is stopping you from freely exercising your religion? How is that? You are not becoming a homosexual. You are not marrying someone of the same gender. You are baking a freakin cake. Thats it.

Of course, when you buy your business license you agree to follow all relevant federal state and local laws concerning the business. Does backing out of that agreement not constitute lying? THAT is an act that is actually against your religion.

Look up "civil disobedience", dimwit.

I know what civil disobedience means. But if you go that route, don't whine about the consequences.

No one's "whining about the consequences", dumbass. We're following through on the entire POINT of civil disobedience, which is to point out that the law is wrong, and should be changed.

Civil disobedience, you mean like in Ferguson?

What part of the word "civil" did you need explained, dimwit?

If you insist it will be "civil", you might want to speak to one of your cohorts who posted "Y'all need to remember that conservative Christians are well armed". That doesn't sound particularly civil. Civil war maybe.

 

[dblack]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

It doesn't make sense to me either. And, from what I know about Jesus, it doesn't sound like what he would do.

But why does that matter? Should bakers should be legally required to be like Jesus? Should it be against the law to be a bigoted hypocrite?

I know this thread is mostly a pissing match between gay rights advocates and homophobes, but the principle at stake is very serious. Because our country began 'broken' (because it was built, in part, on a foundation of slavery), we've been lured down a path that has government dictating matters of conscience and personal association, and I think that's a really bad precedent.

The "protected classes" approach to civil rights law isn't about protecting equal rights. It's about targeting specific kinds of bias for suppression.

I can agree that if you open a business, you should be able to turn down customers for whatever reason you feel like. I'm just saying that economically, it makes no sense, and if done for religious reason, it also makes no sense, because Christians should be following Jesus, who never turned down anyone because they were gay. So like, get your fucking reasons straight, lol.

Why? Why do that have to have their reasons straight? Is it the job of government to make sure we are reasoning properly?

Isn't it the job of the gov't to insure it's citizens are treated fairly? Seems reasonable to me.

For fuck's sake NO! This gets right to the core of the problem. It's the job of government to protect our rights, not to force others to treat us "fairly".

 

[Cecilie1200]

Likewise. Y'all need to remember that conservative Christians are well armed.

If you want to take up arms, you are free to do so. But, like I said, don't whine about the consequences.

If ya'll want to act like fascists, then be prepared for the consequences. This is America, not Nazi Germany.

Jesus wouldn't have a gun, and never had a weapon.

Wrong again. Are you getting paid every time you make an erroneous statement?

Don't make me spank you badly again. Jesus wasn't packing.

Yes, I live in great fear of yet another Machiavellian triumph where you cunningly coerce me into admitting something I have never tried to hide, and would have freely told you if you had just asked.

Jesus was not a pacifist, whatever leftists might try to tell themselves in the absence of any real Bible study or thought. The most famous example of Him expressing wrath and physical force is the story of the moneychangers in the temple. The Bible tells us that He "drove them from the temple". How do you suppose He did that, alone and barehanded? Answer: He didn't. Since the Bible doesn't record any miracles happening, no lightning bolts or pillars of flame or anything of that nature, He obviously did so in a completely human fashion, which would have required something more than merely yelling at them.

Furthermore, the Bible tells us that His disciples carried weapons, and Christ never objected to them. In fact, when He went to the Garden of Gethsemane (Yes, I know you have no idea what that is; look it up), He specifically instructed two of them to bring their swords.

 

[WinterBorn]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

It doesn't make sense to me either. And, from what I know about Jesus, it doesn't sound like what he would do.

But why does that matter? Should bakers should be legally required to be like Jesus? Should it be against the law to be a bigoted hypocrite?

I know this thread is mostly a pissing match between gay rights advocates and homophobes, but the principle at stake is very serious. Because our country began 'broken' (because it was built, in part, on a foundation of slavery), we've been lured down a path that has government dictating matters of conscience and personal association, and I think that's a really bad precedent.

The "protected classes" approach to civil rights law isn't about protecting equal rights. It's about targeting specific kinds of bias for suppression.

I can agree that if you open a business, you should be able to turn down customers for whatever reason you feel like. I'm just saying that economically, it makes no sense, and if done for religious reason, it also makes no sense, because Christians should be following Jesus, who never turned down anyone because they were gay. So like, get your fucking reasons straight, lol.

Why? Why do that have to have their reasons straight? Is it the job of government to make sure we are reasoning properly?

Isn't it the job of the gov't to insure it's citizens are treated fairly? Seems reasonable to me.

Treated fairly by the government sure, but to be the arbiter of every private citizen's dealings? No.

The laws in question are not being the arbiter of every private citizen's dealings. It is simply a set of anti-discrimination laws that businesses have to abide by.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

Off the top of my head, I'd say it's because you want to make cakes for regular, heterosexual couples.

And the baker never said a word about "I don't like faggots". That's just your projection, and tells us more about what lives in YOUR heart than what lives in his.

He doesn't like gays so he wouldn't bake them a cake.

Thank you for sharing your childish, simplistic view on things, but no one asked.

He didn't agree with that particular event. He offered to sell them other sorts of cakes, just not that one. Clearly, the gays themselves were not the problem.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Amazing. The first amendment. ...."free exercise thereof". Do you understand that phrase?

And baking a cake or abiding by rules you agreed to follow is stopping you from freely exercising your religion? How is that? You are not becoming a homosexual. You are not marrying someone of the same gender. You are baking a freakin cake. Thats it.

Of course, when you buy your business license you agree to follow all relevant federal state and local laws concerning the business. Does backing out of that agreement not constitute lying? THAT is an act that is actually against your religion.

Look up "civil disobedience", dimwit.

I know what civil disobedience means. But if you go that route, don't whine about the consequences.

No one's "whining about the consequences", dumbass. We're following through on the entire POINT of civil disobedience, which is to point out that the law is wrong, and should be changed.

Ok then, when you get a big fine, just pay it and keep going. Or work on changing the law, bitch.

Uh, dumb shit, working on changing the law is exactly what we're doing, which you are mischaracterizing as "whining".

 

[WinterBorn]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

It doesn't make sense to me either. And, from what I know about Jesus, it doesn't sound like what he would do.

But why does that matter? Should bakers should be legally required to be like Jesus? Should it be against the law to be a bigoted hypocrite?

I know this thread is mostly a pissing match between gay rights advocates and homophobes, but the principle at stake is very serious. Because our country began 'broken' (because it was built, in part, on a foundation of slavery), we've been lured down a path that has government dictating matters of conscience and personal association, and I think that's a really bad precedent.

The "protected classes" approach to civil rights law isn't about protecting equal rights. It's about targeting specific kinds of bias for suppression.

I can agree that if you open a business, you should be able to turn down customers for whatever reason you feel like. I'm just saying that economically, it makes no sense, and if done for religious reason, it also makes no sense, because Christians should be following Jesus, who never turned down anyone because they were gay. So like, get your fucking reasons straight, lol.

Why? Why do that have to have their reasons straight? Is it the job of government to make sure we are reasoning properly?

Isn't it the job of the gov't to insure it's citizens are treated fairly? Seems reasonable to me.

For fuck's sake NO! This gets right to the core of the problem. It's the job of government to protect our rights, not to force others to be treat us "fairly".

Forcing someone to be nice? When did that happen. You can be as rude and sullen as you want. But the anti-discrimination laws still stand.

There are 4 choices for businesses. Either they follow the laws, change the laws, close their business, or violate the laws and suffer the consequence.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Why would you open a bakery and refuse to make a cake for a same sex couple? It just doesn't make any sense. Would Jesus have said "no, you can't eat my food, because I don't like faggots!"?

It doesn't make sense to me either. And, from what I know about Jesus, it doesn't sound like what he would do.

But why does that matter? Should bakers should be legally required to be like Jesus? Should it be against the law to be a bigoted hypocrite?

I know this thread is mostly a pissing match between gay rights advocates and homophobes, but the principle at stake is very serious. Because our country began 'broken' (because it was built, in part, on a foundation of slavery), we've been lured down a path that has government dictating matters of conscience and personal association, and I think that's a really bad precedent.

The "protected classes" approach to civil rights law isn't about protecting equal rights. It's about targeting specific kinds of bias for suppression.

I can agree that if you open a business, you should be able to turn down customers for whatever reason you feel like. I'm just saying that economically, it makes no sense, and if done for religious reason, it also makes no sense, because Christians should be following Jesus, who never turned down anyone because they were gay. So like, get your fucking reasons straight, lol.

So it's your job to mandate good business decisions now? And PLEASE stop citing to us your insane imaginings of who and what Jesus was. There is not a single person on this planet who would EVER ask you for religious advice, or be stupid enough to value it when it's given without request.

Jesus was likely gay himself, so wouldn't have turned down a gay person for food...
And it's dumb to open up a business and not serve everyone. So start baking those cakes, you grumpy old bitch.

More projection. It's dumb for you to talk when your brain isn't engaged, but no one is disputing your right to make an ass out of yourself publicly.

 

[WinterBorn]

And baking a cake or abiding by rules you agreed to follow is stopping you from freely exercising your religion? How is that? You are not becoming a homosexual. You are not marrying someone of the same gender. You are baking a freakin cake. Thats it.

Of course, when you buy your business license you agree to follow all relevant federal state and local laws concerning the business. Does backing out of that agreement not constitute lying? THAT is an act that is actually against your religion.

Look up "civil disobedience", dimwit.

I know what civil disobedience means. But if you go that route, don't whine about the consequences.

No one's "whining about the consequences", dumbass. We're following through on the entire POINT of civil disobedience, which is to point out that the law is wrong, and should be changed.

Ok then, when you get a big fine, just pay it and keep going. Or work on changing the law, bitch.

Uh, dumb shit, working on changing the law is exactly what we're doing, which you are mischaracterizing as "whining".

Oh? It seems to me like you are on a message board calling people names if they don't agree with you. Silly me. I didn't realize that would change state and local laws.

 

[Taz]

If you want to take up arms, you are free to do so. But, like I said, don't whine about the consequences.

If ya'll want to act like fascists, then be prepared for the consequences. This is America, not Nazi Germany.

Jesus wouldn't have a gun, and never had a weapon.

Wrong again. Are you getting paid every time you make an erroneous statement?

Don't make me spank you badly again. Jesus wasn't packing.

Yes, I live in great fear of yet another Machiavellian triumph where you cunningly coerce me into admitting something I have never tried to hide, and would have freely told you if you had just asked.

Jesus was not a pacifist, whatever leftists might try to tell themselves in the absence of any real Bible study or thought. The most famous example of Him expressing wrath and physical force is the story of the moneychangers in the temple. The Bible tells us that He "drove them from the temple". How do you suppose He did that, alone and barehanded? Answer: He didn't. Since the Bible doesn't record any miracles happening, no lightning bolts or pillars of flame or anything of that nature, He obviously did so in a completely human fashion, which would have required something more than merely yelling at them.

Furthermore, the Bible tells us that His disciples carried weapons, and Christ never objected to them. In fact, when He went to the Garden of Gethsemane (Yes, I know you have no idea what that is; look it up), He specifically instructed two of them to bring their swords.

So you showed no proof that Jesus was ever packing anything. Thanks for clearing that up.