Why Must We Abandon Our Religious Beliefs to Operate A Business?

[Cecilie1200]

I'll add my 2 cents --

People who claim to be religious only to become intolerant of others are hypocrites.

I'll add my own 2 cents:

People who automatically equate "religious" with "intolerant" are bigger hypocrites.

 

[bodecea]

Exercising your religion" does not include violating the legal rights of others,

Being gay should not give you the right to force religious people to violate their deeply held religious beliefs, nor to force them to participate in ceremonies they consider sinful.
At least that’s what the constitution says!

And, since it’s simple enough to go to a non Christian baker or photographer, for example, why CHOOSE to trample all over a persons constitutional right to practise their religion?
And Why go out of your way to destroy their livelihood?
It’s vicious and spiteful and totally unnecessary.

When does it stop? Can I say my religion makes me refuse to serve other races? Can I say my religion makes me refuse to serve other religions? Can I say my religion makes me refuse to follow health laws? Safety laws?

 

[bodecea]

I'll add my 2 cents --

People who claim to be religious only to become intolerant of others are hypocrites.

I'll add my own 2 cents:

People who automatically equate "religious" with "intolerant" are bigger hypocrites.

Then, it's nice when religious people don't act intolerant.....isn't it?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Pretty straight-forward. This is a question to anyone who believes that business owners should be forced to abandon their religious beliefs in order to do business. Also, let me preface this by saying that I am non-religious and that, personally, I generally lean pro-choice and pro-gay-rights. This principle is an exception.

Why? Why should business owners be forced to offer certain forms of compensation (birth control, for instance) if the practice of their religion forbids it?

Why should business owners be forced to abandon their moral reservations and do business with people with whom they'd rather not?

The first amendment guarantees the free exercise of religion. Nowhere does it make an exception for the public sector. Nowhere does it say, "Except when doing business".

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand birth control as compensation from an employer. This is simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand service of a business owner. Again, simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

So if the Bill of Rights guarantees religious practice, but nowhere in the founding documents are the rights to demand service or particular forms of compensation, why do both of these things outweigh the right to free exercise?

Particularly, if gay rights activists say that equality of marriage is a right, and rights aren't up for a vote, then why do these same activists believe that the right to the free exercise of religion -can- be infringed when it suits their agenda?

Anyone? Why are your opinion-based rights more valid than the actual legal rights of religious business owners?

If you are an employer, you shouldn’t be able to determine whether your employees’ health care plan includes contraceptives. That should be up to your employee - it’s her plan and it’s part of her wages.

Wow. Add health insurance to the list of things you know nothing about.

First of all, your employer pays more for your health insurance than you do.

Second of all, you no more get to dictate to your employer what health insurance coverage they will provide than you get to dictate to them how much money they will pay you. The employer decides who they will contract with and for what, and if you don't like the compensation offered, you go find another job.

In Canada, health care, including contraception and abortions, are paid for by employer health taxes. All employers contribute to these taxes, including the Catholic Church, and evangelical churches. There have been no court cases in this regard from any of them.

If possible, I started caring even less about what you had to say when you mentioned Canada than I did before. Don't live in Canada, don't want to live in Canada, don't want to imitate Canada, don't give a fuck what they do.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Pretty straight-forward. This is a question to anyone who believes that business owners should be forced to abandon their religious beliefs in order to do business. Also, let me preface this by saying that I am non-religious and that, personally, I generally lean pro-choice and pro-gay-rights. This principle is an exception.

Why? Why should business owners be forced to offer certain forms of compensation (birth control, for instance) if the practice of their religion forbids it?

Why should business owners be forced to abandon their moral reservations and do business with people with whom they'd rather not?

The first amendment guarantees the free exercise of religion. Nowhere does it make an exception for the public sector. Nowhere does it say, "Except when doing business".

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand birth control as compensation from an employer. This is simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand service of a business owner. Again, simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

So if the Bill of Rights guarantees religious practice, but nowhere in the founding documents are the rights to demand service or particular forms of compensation, why do both of these things outweigh the right to free exercise?

Particularly, if gay rights activists say that equality of marriage is a right, and rights aren't up for a vote, then why do these same activists believe that the right to the free exercise of religion -can- be infringed when it suits their agenda?

Anyone? Why are your opinion-based rights more valid than the actual legal rights of religious business owners?

Why would you want to operate a business where following your business license constantly causes you to go against your religious beliefs as you see them? What's up with that?

I wouldn't.

And I don't.

 

[Witchit]

Pretty straight-forward. This is a question to anyone who believes that business owners should be forced to abandon their religious beliefs in order to do business. Also, let me preface this by saying that I am non-religious and that, personally, I generally lean pro-choice and pro-gay-rights. This principle is an exception.

Why? Why should business owners be forced to offer certain forms of compensation (birth control, for instance) if the practice of their religion forbids it?

Why should business owners be forced to abandon their moral reservations and do business with people with whom they'd rather not?

The first amendment guarantees the free exercise of religion. Nowhere does it make an exception for the public sector. Nowhere does it say, "Except when doing business".

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand birth control as compensation from an employer. This is simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand service of a business owner. Again, simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

So if the Bill of Rights guarantees religious practice, but nowhere in the founding documents are the rights to demand service or particular forms of compensation, why do both of these things outweigh the right to free exercise?

Particularly, if gay rights activists say that equality of marriage is a right, and rights aren't up for a vote, then why do these same activists believe that the right to the free exercise of religion -can- be infringed when it suits their agenda?

Anyone? Why are your opinion-based rights more valid than the actual legal rights of religious business owners?

Laws which they agreed to by opening a business.

Really, dude? Your position is REALLY that simply by living our lives and pursuing our skills and talents, we are contractually obligating ourselves to every stupid damned law that's ever been passed, whether we're aware of it or not? You get a bunch of legislators to ram something through, and the rest of us are signing on to it simply by existing?

There's not enough "fuck you" in the world for that kind of bullshit.

You’ve already declared that you know the laws exist, you just don’t like them. If you can’t do business legally then you should not be doing business at all.

 

[irosie91]

Pretty straight-forward. This is a question to anyone who believes that business owners should be forced to abandon their religious beliefs in order to do business. Also, let me preface this by saying that I am non-religious and that, personally, I generally lean pro-choice and pro-gay-rights. This principle is an exception.

Why? Why should business owners be forced to offer certain forms of compensation (birth control, for instance) if the practice of their religion forbids it?

Why should business owners be forced to abandon their moral reservations and do business with people with whom they'd rather not?

The first amendment guarantees the free exercise of religion. Nowhere does it make an exception for the public sector. Nowhere does it say, "Except when doing business".

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand birth control as compensation from an employer. This is simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand service of a business owner. Again, simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

So if the Bill of Rights guarantees religious practice, but nowhere in the founding documents are the rights to demand service or particular forms of compensation, why do both of these things outweigh the right to free exercise?

Particularly, if gay rights activists say that equality of marriage is a right, and rights aren't up for a vote, then why do these same activists believe that the right to the free exercise of religion -can- be infringed when it suits their agenda?

Anyone? Why are your opinion-based rights more valid than the actual legal rights of religious business owners?

If you are an employer, you shouldn’t be able to determine whether your employees’ health care plan includes contraceptives. That should be up to your employee - it’s her plan and it’s part of her wages.

In Canada, health care, including contraception and abortions, are paid for by employer health taxes. All employers contribute to these taxes, including the Catholic Church, and evangelical churches. There have been no court cases in this regard from any of them.

we have a different system in the USA------employers decide WHICH plan to offer employees

 

[Cecilie1200]

Pretty straight-forward. This is a question to anyone who believes that business owners should be forced to abandon their religious beliefs in order to do business. Also, let me preface this by saying that I am non-religious and that, personally, I generally lean pro-choice and pro-gay-rights. This principle is an exception.

Why? Why should business owners be forced to offer certain forms of compensation (birth control, for instance) if the practice of their religion forbids it?

Why should business owners be forced to abandon their moral reservations and do business with people with whom they'd rather not?

The first amendment guarantees the free exercise of religion. Nowhere does it make an exception for the public sector. Nowhere does it say, "Except when doing business".

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand birth control as compensation from an employer. This is simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand service of a business owner. Again, simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

So if the Bill of Rights guarantees religious practice, but nowhere in the founding documents are the rights to demand service or particular forms of compensation, why do both of these things outweigh the right to free exercise?

Particularly, if gay rights activists say that equality of marriage is a right, and rights aren't up for a vote, then why do these same activists believe that the right to the free exercise of religion -can- be infringed when it suits their agenda?

Anyone? Why are your opinion-based rights more valid than the actual legal rights of religious business owners?

Laws which they agreed to by opening a business.

Really, dude? Your position is REALLY that simply by living our lives and pursuing our skills and talents, we are contractually obligating ourselves to every stupid damned law that's ever been passed, whether we're aware of it or not? You get a bunch of legislators to ram something through, and the rest of us are signing on to it simply by existing?

There's not enough "fuck you" in the world for that kind of bullshit.

You’ve already declared that you know the laws exist, you just don’t like them. If you can’t do business legally then you should not be doing business at all.

I'm personally aware of them, yes. So what? There are names for people who pass onerous laws to force their beliefs onto others, and then try to claim the moral high ground because "it's legal". None of them are very nice, just FYI.

 

[bodecea]

Pretty straight-forward. This is a question to anyone who believes that business owners should be forced to abandon their religious beliefs in order to do business. Also, let me preface this by saying that I am non-religious and that, personally, I generally lean pro-choice and pro-gay-rights. This principle is an exception.

Why? Why should business owners be forced to offer certain forms of compensation (birth control, for instance) if the practice of their religion forbids it?

Why should business owners be forced to abandon their moral reservations and do business with people with whom they'd rather not?

The first amendment guarantees the free exercise of religion. Nowhere does it make an exception for the public sector. Nowhere does it say, "Except when doing business".

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand birth control as compensation from an employer. This is simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand service of a business owner. Again, simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

So if the Bill of Rights guarantees religious practice, but nowhere in the founding documents are the rights to demand service or particular forms of compensation, why do both of these things outweigh the right to free exercise?

Particularly, if gay rights activists say that equality of marriage is a right, and rights aren't up for a vote, then why do these same activists believe that the right to the free exercise of religion -can- be infringed when it suits their agenda?

Anyone? Why are your opinion-based rights more valid than the actual legal rights of religious business owners?

Why would you want to operate a business where following your business license constantly causes you to go against your religious beliefs as you see them? What's up with that?

I wouldn't.

And I don't.

I have the same question for those muslim taxi drivers who refused to carry passengers with pets or alcohol...if it's against your religion, what the heck are you doing in that business?

 

[Witchit]

I'll add my 2 cents --

People who claim to be religious only to become intolerant of others are hypocrites.

I'll add my own 2 cents:

People who automatically equate "religious" with "intolerant" are bigger hypocrites.

Hey, we only know what you show us! Maybe if we saw the occasional “fruits of the spirit” floating around, we’d have a different concept of what “religious” means.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Pretty straight-forward. This is a question to anyone who believes that business owners should be forced to abandon their religious beliefs in order to do business. Also, let me preface this by saying that I am non-religious and that, personally, I generally lean pro-choice and pro-gay-rights. This principle is an exception.

Why? Why should business owners be forced to offer certain forms of compensation (birth control, for instance) if the practice of their religion forbids it?

Why should business owners be forced to abandon their moral reservations and do business with people with whom they'd rather not?

The first amendment guarantees the free exercise of religion. Nowhere does it make an exception for the public sector. Nowhere does it say, "Except when doing business".

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand birth control as compensation from an employer. This is simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand service of a business owner. Again, simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

So if the Bill of Rights guarantees religious practice, but nowhere in the founding documents are the rights to demand service or particular forms of compensation, why do both of these things outweigh the right to free exercise?

Particularly, if gay rights activists say that equality of marriage is a right, and rights aren't up for a vote, then why do these same activists believe that the right to the free exercise of religion -can- be infringed when it suits their agenda?

Anyone? Why are your opinion-based rights more valid than the actual legal rights of religious business owners?

When a business offers insurance it is the insurance company that offers birth control not the business owner. And since most people pay for part of their own insurance from an employer I can argue that the employee is paying for the part of the insurance coverage that provides birth control.

Maybe the business owner who thinks birth control is a sin should not hire people who use birth control. After all hiring sinners should be a sin if baking a cake for sinners is a sin

If providing a service is not a sin then why is providing that service to a sinner a sin? How do you know what sins your customers have committed? And Are some sins worse than others?

Why would a religious watch maker make a watch for a murderer, adulterer, liar or thief but not a homosexual? By doing so isn't he presuming to judge the sins of others? Isn't that judgement god's and god's alone?

 

[bodecea]

I'll add my 2 cents --

People who claim to be religious only to become intolerant of others are hypocrites.

I'll add my own 2 cents:

People who automatically equate "religious" with "intolerant" are bigger hypocrites.

Hey, we only know what you show us! Maybe if we saw the occasional “fruits of the spirit” floating around, we’d have a different concept of what “religious” means.

Perhaps we should keep this thread alive and post examples of some of our religious posters' comments occasionally. There was one last night who stated we need to "torch CNN"....very spiritual, that.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Pretty straight-forward. This is a question to anyone who believes that business owners should be forced to abandon their religious beliefs in order to do business. Also, let me preface this by saying that I am non-religious and that, personally, I generally lean pro-choice and pro-gay-rights. This principle is an exception.

Why? Why should business owners be forced to offer certain forms of compensation (birth control, for instance) if the practice of their religion forbids it?

Why should business owners be forced to abandon their moral reservations and do business with people with whom they'd rather not?

The first amendment guarantees the free exercise of religion. Nowhere does it make an exception for the public sector. Nowhere does it say, "Except when doing business".

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand birth control as compensation from an employer. This is simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand service of a business owner. Again, simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

So if the Bill of Rights guarantees religious practice, but nowhere in the founding documents are the rights to demand service or particular forms of compensation, why do both of these things outweigh the right to free exercise?

Particularly, if gay rights activists say that equality of marriage is a right, and rights aren't up for a vote, then why do these same activists believe that the right to the free exercise of religion -can- be infringed when it suits their agenda?

Anyone? Why are your opinion-based rights more valid than the actual legal rights of religious business owners?

Laws which they agreed to by opening a business.

Really, dude? Your position is REALLY that simply by living our lives and pursuing our skills and talents, we are contractually obligating ourselves to every stupid damned law that's ever been passed, whether we're aware of it or not? You get a bunch of legislators to ram something through, and the rest of us are signing on to it simply by existing?

There's not enough "fuck you" in the world for that kind of bullshit.

You’ve already declared that you know the laws exist, you just don’t like them. If you can’t do business legally then you should not be doing business at all.

So, you don't bother to consider the merit of a law? You're just a proponent of obeying rules because they're the rules, to the point that anybody who doesn't obey the rules shouldn't be allowed to earn a living?

Do you officially and deliberately worship authority, or is that something you haven't realized about yourself, yet?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'll add my 2 cents --

People who claim to be religious only to become intolerant of others are hypocrites.

I'll add my own 2 cents:

People who automatically equate "religious" with "intolerant" are bigger hypocrites.

Hey, we only know what you show us! Maybe if we saw the occasional “fruits of the spirit” floating around, we’d have a different concept of what “religious” means.

No, sweetheart, you only see what you want to see. Doesn't matter what we're actually doing, or why. You interpret it as you please, you utterly ignore any explanations you get, and you demand that we conform to what you think we ought to be. And then you wonder why we're hostile about it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Pretty straight-forward. This is a question to anyone who believes that business owners should be forced to abandon their religious beliefs in order to do business. Also, let me preface this by saying that I am non-religious and that, personally, I generally lean pro-choice and pro-gay-rights. This principle is an exception.

Why? Why should business owners be forced to offer certain forms of compensation (birth control, for instance) if the practice of their religion forbids it?

Why should business owners be forced to abandon their moral reservations and do business with people with whom they'd rather not?

The first amendment guarantees the free exercise of religion. Nowhere does it make an exception for the public sector. Nowhere does it say, "Except when doing business".

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand birth control as compensation from an employer. This is simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand service of a business owner. Again, simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

So if the Bill of Rights guarantees religious practice, but nowhere in the founding documents are the rights to demand service or particular forms of compensation, why do both of these things outweigh the right to free exercise?

Particularly, if gay rights activists say that equality of marriage is a right, and rights aren't up for a vote, then why do these same activists believe that the right to the free exercise of religion -can- be infringed when it suits their agenda?

Anyone? Why are your opinion-based rights more valid than the actual legal rights of religious business owners?

Laws which they agreed to by opening a business.

Really, dude? Your position is REALLY that simply by living our lives and pursuing our skills and talents, we are contractually obligating ourselves to every stupid damned law that's ever been passed, whether we're aware of it or not? You get a bunch of legislators to ram something through, and the rest of us are signing on to it simply by existing?

There's not enough "fuck you" in the world for that kind of bullshit.

You’ve already declared that you know the laws exist, you just don’t like them. If you can’t do business legally then you should not be doing business at all.

So, you don't bother to consider the merit of a law? You're just a proponent of obeying rules because they're the rules, to the point that anybody who doesn't obey the rules shouldn't be allowed to earn a living?

Do you officially and deliberately worship authority, or is that something you haven't realized about yourself, yet?

Don't be ridiculous. Leftists are all about "considering the merit of a law" . . . unless it's a law they like and have rammed down everyone's throat, in which case, they suddenly want everyone to shut up and blindly conform. If they don't like a law, it's an ongoing battle up until they get something passed that they like. THEN it's "settled jurisprudence", and everyone is ordered to "shut up and get used to it".

 

[BlackSand]

.​

All the baker's customers are sinners ... And all sins are equal in the eyes of God.​

.​

 

[Cecilie1200]

.​

All the baker's customers are sinners ... And all sins are equal in the eyes of God.​

.​

Well, you're half-right.

Not sure what the relevance to the topic is, though.

 

[Witchit]

Pretty straight-forward. This is a question to anyone who believes that business owners should be forced to abandon their religious beliefs in order to do business. Also, let me preface this by saying that I am non-religious and that, personally, I generally lean pro-choice and pro-gay-rights. This principle is an exception.

Why? Why should business owners be forced to offer certain forms of compensation (birth control, for instance) if the practice of their religion forbids it?

Why should business owners be forced to abandon their moral reservations and do business with people with whom they'd rather not?

The first amendment guarantees the free exercise of religion. Nowhere does it make an exception for the public sector. Nowhere does it say, "Except when doing business".

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand birth control as compensation from an employer. This is simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand service of a business owner. Again, simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

So if the Bill of Rights guarantees religious practice, but nowhere in the founding documents are the rights to demand service or particular forms of compensation, why do both of these things outweigh the right to free exercise?

Particularly, if gay rights activists say that equality of marriage is a right, and rights aren't up for a vote, then why do these same activists believe that the right to the free exercise of religion -can- be infringed when it suits their agenda?

Anyone? Why are your opinion-based rights more valid than the actual legal rights of religious business owners?

Laws which they agreed to by opening a business.

Really, dude? Your position is REALLY that simply by living our lives and pursuing our skills and talents, we are contractually obligating ourselves to every stupid damned law that's ever been passed, whether we're aware of it or not? You get a bunch of legislators to ram something through, and the rest of us are signing on to it simply by existing?

There's not enough "fuck you" in the world for that kind of bullshit.

You’ve already declared that you know the laws exist, you just don’t like them. If you can’t do business legally then you should not be doing business at all.

So, you don't bother to consider the merit of a law? You're just a proponent of obeying rules because they're the rules, to the point that anybody who doesn't obey the rules shouldn't be allowed to earn a living?

Do you officially and deliberately worship authority, or is that something you haven't realized about yourself, yet?

Do you apply the same rules when a black man is being unlawfully stopped by the police?

 

[ABikerSailor]

.​

All the baker's customers are sinners ... And all sins are equal in the eyes of God.​

.​

I challenge ANYONE on this thread to post a Bible verse that calls homosexuality a "sin".

The only thing that is considered a "sin" is those things that go against the 10 Commandments or 7 Noahide Commandments (and both say basically the same thing).

And no, an abomination isn't the same thing as a sin.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Pretty straight-forward. This is a question to anyone who believes that business owners should be forced to abandon their religious beliefs in order to do business. Also, let me preface this by saying that I am non-religious and that, personally, I generally lean pro-choice and pro-gay-rights. This principle is an exception.

Why? Why should business owners be forced to offer certain forms of compensation (birth control, for instance) if the practice of their religion forbids it?

Why should business owners be forced to abandon their moral reservations and do business with people with whom they'd rather not?

The first amendment guarantees the free exercise of religion. Nowhere does it make an exception for the public sector. Nowhere does it say, "Except when doing business".

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand birth control as compensation from an employer. This is simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

Nowhere in the bill of rights is the right to demand service of a business owner. Again, simply a commonly held opinion of leftists.

So if the Bill of Rights guarantees religious practice, but nowhere in the founding documents are the rights to demand service or particular forms of compensation, why do both of these things outweigh the right to free exercise?

Particularly, if gay rights activists say that equality of marriage is a right, and rights aren't up for a vote, then why do these same activists believe that the right to the free exercise of religion -can- be infringed when it suits their agenda?

Anyone? Why are your opinion-based rights more valid than the actual legal rights of religious business owners?

Laws which they agreed to by opening a business.

Really, dude? Your position is REALLY that simply by living our lives and pursuing our skills and talents, we are contractually obligating ourselves to every stupid damned law that's ever been passed, whether we're aware of it or not? You get a bunch of legislators to ram something through, and the rest of us are signing on to it simply by existing?

There's not enough "fuck you" in the world for that kind of bullshit.

You’ve already declared that you know the laws exist, you just don’t like them. If you can’t do business legally then you should not be doing business at all.

So, you don't bother to consider the merit of a law? You're just a proponent of obeying rules because they're the rules, to the point that anybody who doesn't obey the rules shouldn't be allowed to earn a living?

Do you officially and deliberately worship authority, or is that something you haven't realized about yourself, yet?

Do you apply the same rules when a black man is being unlawfully stopped by the police?

Allow me to be the first to say, "What in the everloving hell are you babbling about?"