Why OCare and Socialized Medicine will inevitably Fail in the US - (Democrats Agree)

[Vox]

America does not currently have a better standard of care compared to the rest of the world.

Yet as of 2003 we have been spending more out of pocket then the next 4 countries combined and we spend more out of tax dollars than the next 6 countries combined.

So we are paying more tax dollars per person than a country that actually has SOCIALIZED medicine and we have nothing to show for it.

"Quality of care" is not going to go down, just maybe the number of 1 ton maple burl boardroom tables and 3 story indoor waterfalls.

Yes, it does.

and much better results.

if one considers REAL frontiers of the medicine, not the backdoor of free vaccinations( which is "free" in the US as well)

Much better results? We are 33rd in life expectancy in the world, yet we pay more out of pocket and taxes than any other developed country.

What fucking planet do you live on?

stop this bullshit and check your stats.

 

[Clementine]

It is something that needs to be addressed. I don't care how pretty socialized medicine looks on paper or sounds in speeches, in reality it sucks.

Even if Obama did make sure each and every American was insured, that doesn't mean they'll get care, especially not quality care.

Obama said he'd bring in doctors from other countries, which could mean that a large number of doctors in the future will speak poor English and maybe haven't had the same quality of medical training.

So many doctors are talking about retiring and that doesn't bode well for quality health care in the U.S.

Will the best and brightest people still go to medical school and become doctors when the government controls their every move and interferes with the sacred doctor-patient relationship? I doubt it.

 

[Vox]

I'd advise people to go and read about the French system which is well regarded. It's far better than the NHS in the UK and your system in the USA.

They also spend far less than the USA in terms of GDP and with a much better outcome.Of course the problem with it is that the payment is taken out of your salary, its not classed as a tax but a health insurance.

It's not socialized in that sense, the government just regulates minimum standards, buys equipment which makes it cheaper and you have total freedom in terms of doctor etc.

key words here.

swiss system is even better.

but none of those can be even thought about before EMTALA and tort reform - nowhere in Europe anything of the stupidity of those two aspects is even close to American one.

The best way to fund the universal healthcare ( by minimal standards) is through federal sales tax - only then it will be FAIR and never ending.

But as I have said before - it can not be enacted if EMTALA is not changed and without tort reform.

Thanks for the reply, could you possibly explain what EMTALA is and Tort reform I'm not aware of these and why do they cause such problems for Americans?

tort reform means you can't sue anybody for anything - it is a plague in medicine, but corrupts the life in other domains as well.
EMTALA is a law which mandates that the hospital can not refuse treatment to anybody based on their ability to pay - and that is good, but the idiocy evolved to the bums from the street hitting doors of the ER and getting the liver transplant - which should not happen.
stabilization and necessary treatments should not mean all the luxuries of the best medicine in the world - on the taxpayer's tab.
Oh, and I would also add some provisions on the ability to sue by those who do not have any kind of medical insurance - not that they can not do it when the real medical negligence or harm because of the intentional mistreatment occurs, but all those BS lawsuits because of hurt feelings and some others.
There was a cae which describes the idiocy of the situation perfectly - in 2006 or 07 there was a case of a 17 y.o. illegal Mexican girl getting a liver transplant and having a major rejection of the organ because of the mistake in mixed blood types in blood transfusion ( liver transplant is a massive blood transfusion procedure). the girl gets second liver - everything is basically a charity from Duke - but unfortunately, dies. The family first rejects the plea for organ donation for others ( heart, lungs) and then sues Duke !!!
I don't exactly recall how it all ended, because there was a furious backlash throughout the US - not only the illegal who has never paid into the system was getting 2(!!!) transplants for free, but the family, taking other people donated organs for their daughter refused to reciprocate the favor when asked for their daughter organs and was even bold enough to sue.

this case demonstrated exactly why EMTALA and tort reform are needed ASAP - before anything else if one considers anything to be changed seriously.

 

[Vox]

If the problem is a shortage of doctors and private enterprise cannot fix the problem that's the kind of thing that invites government participation.
As America needs a West Point and other schools to teach people how to kill why not a school to teach people how to cure and treat? Can America can use a good medical school to teach all the facets of medicine, with labs etc, not to compete with other schools but to supplement them. Perhaps we need to make medicine more of a help thing than just a thing to make money?

This problem is that you have the American Medical Association keeping the number of medical schools artificially low.

The number of medical schools today is actually lower than it was 100 years ago -- even with the growth of the population.

The AMA is like a labour union for doctors and it's in their best interest to keep schools low. Less schools = harder to get in = less doctors = more money to be made.

sorry, but, please, stop repeating this BS. number of medical schools does not matter - if the number of residency slots is limited. and AMA has nothing to do with the shortage of doctors. You can get your education anywhere in the world - and much cheaper - the number of medical schools is irrelevant., but where are you planning to train all those fresh graduates? or just leave them with a half million debt and without even a residency slot?

The amount of the residency slots is regulated by federal government.

not to even mention that AMA is not even close to be a union. It is just a body which sells codes, nothing more.

 

[Vox]

If the problem is a shortage of doctors and private enterprise cannot fix the problem that's the kind of thing that invites government participation.
As America needs a West Point and other schools to teach people how to kill why not a school to teach people how to cure and treat? Can America can use a good medical school to teach all the facets of medicine, with labs etc, not to compete with other schools but to supplement them. Perhaps we need to make medicine more of a help thing than just a thing to make money?

if you want to have a substandard healthcare system - go ahead, make medicine a "help thing"

but check how is it working in Venezuela, for example

 

[Vandalshandle]

This is terrible! This means that my Medicare coverage is going to collapse any day now! Of course, the Right has been saying that since 1966, and I never have to wait for more than 3 days to see my doc, but surely their prediction of our socialized Medicare can't be wrong....