Why should government be kept smaller, and restricted to only certain tasks?

[bripat9643]

I don't think it would be much fun doing commerce without a government protecting property rights. Just sayin'.

Government is currently the #1 threat to our property rights. Before government, society evolved mechanisms for resolving disputes and protecting property. People live in villages together for thousands of years before the state ever existed.

Sure. And I'm actually convinced that, in a given society, with the right mores and beliefs, we could get along fine without a compulsory state government. But we're not in that society, and likely won't be in our lifetimes, so government is a necessity. It doesn't help the 'limited government' cause to fall for the strawman of arguing against that necessity.

Rightwinger, and others, are trying to push you into to making, essentially, an argument for anarchism - and that's not the point of what we're after. The point is to define clear purpose for government, and constrain it to appropriate means. What's killing us is the assumption that government is the end-all-be-all of society - that it's there to solve any given problem we face as a community.

The concept of "limited government" is an oxymoron. So long as government exists, it will grow and expand until it consumes all of society. That's the nature of government. It's idiotic to believe that government can be contained, just as it's idiotic to believe a scorpion won't sting you if you pick it up.

 

[bripat9643]

If the private sector can defend the country better than the government, why have a government run defense department and all else that relates to our national security?

It was NEVER intended that we have standing armies:

The colonists objected to a standing army because

"A standing army in the hands of a government placed so independent of the people, may be made a fatal instrument to overturn the public liberties; it may be employed to enforce the collection of the most oppressive taxes, and to carry into execution the most arbitrary measures. An ambitious man who may have the army at his devotion, may step up into the throne, and seize upon absolute power."

That's how we got Lincoln.

 

[bripat9643]

The fact is trade existed long before government. Farmers, craftsmen and artisans brought their goods to market before the state ever existed.

I don't think it would be much fun doing commerce without a government protecting property rights. Just sayin'.

Exactly

You could bring your goods to market, but nobody would protect you once yo got there
Government also created this thing called money which made commerce possible

What an idiot. Government didn't create money. and markets existed before government, so both your claims are wrong. Just about everything you believe about government is wrong. That's what makes you a liberal.

 

[rightwinger]

I don't think it would be much fun doing commerce without a government protecting property rights. Just sayin'.

Exactly

You could bring your goods to market, but nobody would protect you once yo got there
Government also created this thing called money which made commerce possible

What an idiot. Government didn't create money. and markets existed before government, so both your claims are wrong. Just about everything you believe about government is wrong. That's what makes you a liberal.

Monetary systems were created by governments. Beyond that all you had was barter

 

[Contumacious]

If the private sector can defend the country better than the government,

It can't. Govt is required, to organize and MANDATE the things necessary for defense.

HUH?

Why can't private industry organize a defense program?

.

 

[Contumacious]

If the private sector can defend the country better than the government,

It can't. Govt is required, to organize and MANDATE the things necessary for defense.

HUH?

Why can't private industry organize a defense program?

Why can't ARMED FREEMEN - the militia - defend themselves and the country?

.

.

 

[rightwinger]

The fact is trade existed long before government. Farmers, craftsmen and artisans brought their goods to market before the state ever existed.

I don't think it would be much fun doing commerce without a government protecting property rights. Just sayin'.

Government is currently the #1 threat to our property rights. Before government, society evolved mechanisms for resolving disputes and protecting property. People live in villages together for thousands of years before the state ever existed.

Villages had governments. They still do and it is mostly the local governments that will protect your property rights.

 

[PixieStix]

Why should government be kept smaller, and restricted to only certain tasks?

Two words...

The Constitution

I am not sure government even considers the Constitution, when implementing law these days

 

[bripat9643]

Exactly

You could bring your goods to market, but nobody would protect you once yo got there
Government also created this thing called money which made commerce possible

What an idiot. Government didn't create money. and markets existed before government, so both your claims are wrong. Just about everything you believe about government is wrong. That's what makes you a liberal.

Monetary systems were created by governments. Beyond that all you had was barter

Wrong, asshole. Gold and silver coins existed before any government started minting them. Jewish goldsmiths created paper money. Customers would leave their gold on deposit with the goldsmith and would be issued paper certificates that were claims on their gold. These certificates were often used to make purchases. That's how paper money cam into being in the West.

Government had nothing to do with the creation of money. It simply took over the process so it could loot the public by debasing the currency.

 

[bripat9643]

I don't think it would be much fun doing commerce without a government protecting property rights. Just sayin'.

Government is currently the #1 threat to our property rights. Before government, society evolved mechanisms for resolving disputes and protecting property. People live in villages together for thousands of years before the state ever existed.

Villages had governments. They still do and it is mostly the local governments that will protect your property rights.

No they didn't.

 

[Contumacious]

Why should government be kept smaller, and restricted to only certain tasks?

Two words...

The Constitution

I am not sure government even considers the Constitution, when implementing law these days

The Constitution (1787) was abolished by the Coup d'etat of 1935 . Led by FDR and the fascists .

.

 

[bripat9643]

Why should government be kept smaller, and restricted to only certain tasks?

Two words...

The Constitution

I am not sure government even considers the Constitution, when implementing law these days

The Constitution (1787) was abolished by the Coup d'etat of 1935 . Led by FDR and the fascists .

.

It was actually abolished in 1860.

 

[Spiderman]

Commerce is not possible without government

It is government that builds the roads, builds the bridges, dredges the harbors that makes commerce possible. Our military also keeps the peace that keeps the money flowing

So there was no commerce before government?

I think you're wrong.

Even simple societies needed government to protect commerce. All the way back to stopping thieves from stealing your goods, stopping raiders and opening up trade with neighboring tribes

Or merchants hired their own security.

Government had nothing to do with that. Hell even in this country people hired private security for their businesses.

Wells Fargo and Pinkerton come to mind.

 

[Contumacious]

Why should government be kept smaller, and restricted to only certain tasks?

Two words...

The Constitution

I am not sure government even considers the Constitution, when implementing law these days

The Constitution (1787) was abolished by the Coup d'etat of 1935 . Led by FDR and the fascists .

.

It was actually abolished in 1860.

Yes.

Ape Lincoln did inflict a severe injury to the Constitution. The Fourteenth , sixteenth and seventeenth amendment also caused irreparable harm. So did Woodrow Wilson's decision to abandon neutrality and to turn us into a warfare state.

.

 

[bripat9643]

So there was no commerce before government?

I think you're wrong.

Even simple societies needed government to protect commerce. All the way back to stopping thieves from stealing your goods, stopping raiders and opening up trade with neighboring tribes

Or merchants hired their own security.

Government had nothing to do with that. Hell even in this country people hired private security for their businesses.

Wells Fargo and Pinkerton come to mind.

Yep. the fact is that government does a poor job of providing security. That's why they have private security guards at banks and shopping malls. Factory owners provide their own security.

 

[Iceman]

The US government has a symbiotic relationship with commerce. In that..in many cases they fund each other.

How does the US Government fund commerce? What commerce? All commerce?

Commerce is not possible without government

It is government that builds the roads, builds the bridges, dredges the harbors that makes commerce possible. Our military also keeps the peace that keeps the money flowing

Who funds the building of the roads, building of the bridges, dredging of the harbors that makes commerce possible? Also, who funds the military?

 

[rightwinger]

How does the US Government fund commerce? What commerce? All commerce?

Commerce is not possible without government

It is government that builds the roads, builds the bridges, dredges the harbors that makes commerce possible. Our military also keeps the peace that keeps the money flowing

Who funds the building of the roads, building of the bridges, dredging of the harbors that makes commerce possible? Also, who funds the military?

We the people.....

Great isn't it?

 

[Contumacious]

Commerce is not possible without government

It is government that builds the roads, builds the bridges, dredges the harbors that makes commerce possible. Our military also keeps the peace that keeps the money flowing

Who funds the building of the roads, building of the bridges, dredging of the harbors that makes commerce possible? Also, who funds the military?

We the people.....

Great isn't it?

Incorrect.


My understanding is that you are a TAX CONSUMER, A PARASITE, A MOOCHER

someone who believes that tax payers have a duty to feed and insure you.

.

 

[asaratis]

The US government has a symbiotic relationship with commerce. In that..in many cases they fund each other.

How does the US Government fund commerce? What commerce? All commerce?

Commerce is not possible without government

It is government that builds the roads, builds the bridges, dredges the harbors that makes commerce possible. Our military also keeps the peace that keeps the money flowing

Commerce was going strong before roads and harbors came into play. The Silk Road was nothing more than trails and sea routes repeatedly used by tradesmen to move goods between countries. There was no pavement and no dredged harbors.

 

[rightwinger]

Who funds the building of the roads, building of the bridges, dredging of the harbors that makes commerce possible? Also, who funds the military?

We the people.....

Great isn't it?

Incorrect.


My understanding is that you are a TAX CONSUMER, A PARASITE, A MOOCHER

someone who believes that tax payers have a duty to feed and insure you.

.

Very true

That is what we the people want. We do not want our people starving in the streets. We don't want people dying for lack of medical care. Somehow, when we look at the United States, we want to be the good guys. We want to take care of our less fortunate