'Why Study Philosophy'

[task0778]

One of my best threads. Lots of views and hopefully thinking. An interesting piece on two pragmatists:

"What is it about philosophy that makes long dead philosophers interesting in a way that long dead physicists are not?" Fans of Einstein might object, but it’s an intriguing question and typical of their inviting style."

"The crux of their dispute centered on how far to take pragmatism. Rorty thought that the things we believe to be true aren’t actually connected to reality: There is the stuff we say, and then there is the actual world, and never the twain shall meet. We agree on certain conventions in order to function, but we’ll never arrive at anything like truth. Putnam meanwhile held to the idea, as he wrote, that "there is a way to do justice to our sense that knowledge claims are responsible to reality." In other words, it was possible, as he saw it, to be a pragmatist without jettisoning truth altogether."

A Marriage of Minds

And what's it like. Interviews

"I would say quite seriously, that I am a socialist in economics, a liberal in politics, and a conservative in culture." Daniel Bell

First of all, let me admit that my knowledge of pragmatism is abysmally incomplete. But that's not going to stop me from making what may be an ignorant post, nothing unusual there:

" Rorty thought that the things we believe to be true aren’t actually connected to reality: There is the stuff we say, and then there is the actual world, and never the twain shall meet. We agree on certain conventions in order to function, but we’ll never arrive at anything like truth. "

No doubt I am misunderstand this, but the things we believe to be true may or may not be connected to reality. To say we'll never arrive anything like the truth is IMHO selling ourselves too short; who's to say mankind will not stumble on the truth one way or another, and I'm not sure that in some subjects like religion, one person's truth is not another's. It could be that the concept of one real truth is all there is for everybody is a gross assumption. And I'm not even sure that what was real truth yesterday will be the real truth tomorrow, I wouldn't say we know everything there is to know about reality just yet. But to assert that we'll never get there is a little too pessimistic for me, it could take a long time, but maybe we'll eventually get there.

 

[ding]

One of my best threads. Lots of views and hopefully thinking. An interesting piece on two pragmatists:

"What is it about philosophy that makes long dead philosophers interesting in a way that long dead physicists are not?" Fans of Einstein might object, but it’s an intriguing question and typical of their inviting style."

"The crux of their dispute centered on how far to take pragmatism. Rorty thought that the things we believe to be true aren’t actually connected to reality: There is the stuff we say, and then there is the actual world, and never the twain shall meet. We agree on certain conventions in order to function, but we’ll never arrive at anything like truth. Putnam meanwhile held to the idea, as he wrote, that "there is a way to do justice to our sense that knowledge claims are responsible to reality." In other words, it was possible, as he saw it, to be a pragmatist without jettisoning truth altogether."

A Marriage of Minds

And what's it like. Interviews

"I would say quite seriously, that I am a socialist in economics, a liberal in politics, and a conservative in culture." Daniel Bell

First of all, let me admit that my knowledge of pragmatism is abysmally incomplete. But that's not going to stop me from making what may be an ignorant post, nothing unusual there:

" Rorty thought that the things we believe to be true aren’t actually connected to reality: There is the stuff we say, and then there is the actual world, and never the twain shall meet. We agree on certain conventions in order to function, but we’ll never arrive at anything like truth. "

No doubt I am misunderstand this, but the things we believe to be true may or may not be connected to reality. To say we'll never arrive anything like the truth is IMHO selling ourselves too short; who's to say mankind will not stumble on the truth one way or another, and I'm not sure that in some subjects like religion, one person's truth is not another's. It could be that the concept of one real truth is all there is for everybody is a gross assumption. And I'm not even sure that what was real truth yesterday will be the real truth tomorrow, I wouldn't say we know everything there is to know about reality just yet. But to assert that we'll never get there is a little too pessimistic for me, it could take a long time, but maybe we'll eventually get there.

There is a final state of fact for everything and once it is discovered it will be known that it was always that way and will always be that way. This is called reality or objective truth. The confusion on objective truth or reality comes from the perception of reality which is subjective, but that does not mean it is not possible to be objective and see reality or objective truth. All one must do is have no preference for an outcome and the consequences to one's self.

 

[Kognisjon]

Reading philosophy is an active event, much like reading a book on Mathematics or legal judgments. The authors, translators and editors of works of the great philosophers are not often the best writers, for their efforts to cover all bases leads to many parenthetic paragraphs. Most works require intense concentration and note taking

 

[midcan5]

"The land is not my own yet here I abide, casting my drooping Eye upon the world." AO

Greetings fellow thinkers and assorted whiners, hope all are well. A few pieces to enlighten, cultivate, aggravate, or whatever, the mind.

"Lately, academia has grown more sensitive to how its culture flattens and normalises those who populate its ranks. Impostor syndrome is a way of explaining how non-standard identities can provoke alienation. Class is one such structure of exclusion, alongside race, gender, sexual identity and disability. But what are the epistemic costs of ‘fitting’? If we look only at alienation, we ignore the ways in which that subtly enforced sameness diminishes understanding." Amy Olberding How useful is 'impostor syndrome' in academia? | Aeon Essays

Journeyman Philosopher: Who and what do you think you are?
Journeyman Philosopher: Free will revisited

Free speech and the big I. The Philosopher's Beard: Can Free Speech Survive the Internet?

'I Was a Bank Robber Until I Read Kant - The one thing that criminals and philosophers share is a sense of being an outsider
I Was a Bank Robber Until I Read Kant

The History Of Philosophy

"To compare life to a road can indeed be fruitful in many ways, but we must consider how life is unlike a road. In a physical sense a road is an external actuality, no matter whether anyone is walking on it or not, no matter how the individual travels on it - the road is the road. But in the spiritual sense, the road comes into existence only when we walk on it. That is, the road is how it is walked." Soren Kierkegaard, 'Provocations'


"A philosopher is a blind man, in a dark cellar, at midnight, looking for a black cat that isn't there. He is distinguished from a theologian in that the theologian finds the cat." anon

 

[Mindful]

"The land is not my own yet here I abide, casting my drooping Eye upon the world." AO

Greetings fellow thinkers and assorted whiners, hope all are well. A few pieces to enlighten, cultivate, aggravate, or whatever, the mind.

"Lately, academia has grown more sensitive to how its culture flattens and normalises those who populate its ranks. Impostor syndrome is a way of explaining how non-standard identities can provoke alienation. Class is one such structure of exclusion, alongside race, gender, sexual identity and disability. But what are the epistemic costs of ‘fitting’? If we look only at alienation, we ignore the ways in which that subtly enforced sameness diminishes understanding." Amy Olberding How useful is 'impostor syndrome' in academia? | Aeon Essays

Journeyman Philosopher: Who and what do you think you are?
Journeyman Philosopher: Free will revisited

Free speech and the big I. The Philosopher's Beard: Can Free Speech Survive the Internet?

'I Was a Bank Robber Until I Read Kant - The one thing that criminals and philosophers share is a sense of being an outsider
I Was a Bank Robber Until I Read Kant

The History Of Philosophy

"To compare life to a road can indeed be fruitful in many ways, but we must consider how life is unlike a road. In a physical sense a road is an external actuality, no matter whether anyone is walking on it or not, no matter how the individual travels on it - the road is the road. But in the spiritual sense, the road comes into existence only when we walk on it. That is, the road is how it is walked." Soren Kierkegaard, 'Provocations'


"A philosopher is a blind man, in a dark cellar, at midnight, looking for a black cat that isn't there. He is distinguished from a theologian in that the theologian finds the cat." anon

The Allegory of the Cave does it for me.

 

[Wry Catcher]

"The land is not my own yet here I abide, casting my drooping Eye upon the world." AO

Greetings fellow thinkers and assorted whiners, hope all are well. A few pieces to enlighten, cultivate, aggravate, or whatever, the mind.

"Lately, academia has grown more sensitive to how its culture flattens and normalises those who populate its ranks. Impostor syndrome is a way of explaining how non-standard identities can provoke alienation. Class is one such structure of exclusion, alongside race, gender, sexual identity and disability. But what are the epistemic costs of ‘fitting’? If we look only at alienation, we ignore the ways in which that subtly enforced sameness diminishes understanding." Amy Olberding How useful is 'impostor syndrome' in academia? | Aeon Essays

Journeyman Philosopher: Who and what do you think you are?
Journeyman Philosopher: Free will revisited

Free speech and the big I. The Philosopher's Beard: Can Free Speech Survive the Internet?

'I Was a Bank Robber Until I Read Kant - The one thing that criminals and philosophers share is a sense of being an outsider
I Was a Bank Robber Until I Read Kant

The History Of Philosophy

"To compare life to a road can indeed be fruitful in many ways, but we must consider how life is unlike a road. In a physical sense a road is an external actuality, no matter whether anyone is walking on it or not, no matter how the individual travels on it - the road is the road. But in the spiritual sense, the road comes into existence only when we walk on it. That is, the road is how it is walked." Soren Kierkegaard, 'Provocations'


"A philosopher is a blind man, in a dark cellar, at midnight, looking for a black cat that isn't there. He is distinguished from a theologian in that the theologian finds the cat." anon

The Allegory of the Cave does it for me.

Shadow over substance, I'd want to know more?

 

[midcan5]

Greetings thoughtful USMB readers. A few links for the thoughtful.

Interesting magazine check out the edition on Fake News, excellent. New Philosopher | Magazine

"Human beings do not live in the objective world alone ... but are very much at the mercy of the particular language which has become the medium of expression for their society. It is quite an illusion to imagine that one adjusts to reality essentially without the use of language and that language is merely an incidental means of solving specific problems of communication or reflection. The fact of the matter is that the 'real world' is to a large extent unconsciously built upon the language habits of the group. No two languages are ever sufficiently similar to be considered as representing the same social reality. The worlds in which different societies live are distinct worlds, not merely the same world with different labels attached ... We see and hear and otherwise experience very largely as we do because the language habits of our community predispose certain choices of interpretation." Edward Sapir

Lots of Philosopher interviews: Whatever it is, we're against it. -

"Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value." Meaningness

"The moment we no longer have a free press, anything can happen. What makes it possible for a totalitarian or any other dictatorship to rule is that people are not informed; how can you have an opinion if you are not informed? If everybody always lies to you, the consequence is not that you believe the lies, but rather that nobody believes anything any longer. This is because lies, by their very nature, have to be changed, and a lying government has constantly to rewrite its own history. On the receiving end you get not only one lie—a lie which you could go on for the rest of your days—but you get a great number of lies, depending on how the political wind blows. And a people that no longer can believe anything cannot make up its mind. It is deprived not only of its capacity to act but also of its capacity to think and to judge. And with such a people you can then do what you please." Hannah Arendt Hannah Arendt: From an Interview

 

[Wry Catcher]

From midcan5's interesting and thought provoking link:

For Frankfurt, a bullshitter “is neither on the side of the true nor on the side of the false… He does not care whether the things he says describe reality correctly. He just picks them out, or makes them up, to suit his purpose”. These words, first published in 2005, capture something central to the phenomenon that has come to be called fake news: the belief that emotive impact is not only the supreme test of a story, but the only metric that matters.

‘Alternative facts’ can always be mustered if you equate truth with the most aggressive opinion in the room. The world according to the bullshitter is whatever he wishes it to be. ‘Fake news’ is whatever people he disagrees with are saying. There’s a purity to this that is almost Platonic.

For the curious, read the link and pay attention to the term "bullshitter" which aptly describes Donald Trump and his claim about cheering on 9-11 in NJ.

 

[Mindful]

Boethius: The Consolation of Philosophy

 

[IsaacNewton]

All education is beneficial. Education in general demystifies almost everything so people aren't afraid of things anymore. You see much clearer when you know how things actually work. The less educated one is the easier for people to fool you. A liberal arts degree produces a rounder human being and much better citizen.

 

[midcan5]

More stuff for the thinkers.

"Philosophy and politics majors earn more than any other humanities degree through all stages of their careers."

"Philosophy majors outperform business majors in earning power later in their careers, and they outperform biology majors at all stages of their careers. Mid-career median salaries for philosophy majors are reported to be $85,100.[31]"

American Catholic Philosophical Association - Publications

And this too:

Interesting comments on African philosophy

Existence and Consolation -

"Politics is opposed to morality, as philosophy to naiveté." Emmanuel Levinas

"Human beings do not live in the objective world alone ... but are very much at the mercy of the particular language which has become the medium of expression for their society. It is quite an illusion to imagine that one adjusts to reality essentially without the use of language and that language is merely an incidental means of solving specific problems of communication or reflection. The fact of the matter is that the 'real world' is to a large extent unconsciously built upon the language habits of the group. No two languages are ever sufficiently similar to be considered as representing the same social reality. The worlds in which different societies live are distinct worlds, not merely the same world with different labels attached ... We see and hear and otherwise experience very largely as we do because the language habits of our community predispose certain choices of interpretation." Edward Sapir

 

[ptbw forever]

I often read that students should study some field of knowledge that leads to productive work. But consider that my eventual working world did not even exist when I started college. My degree was eventually in Liberal Arts as I was never sure what I wanted to be when I grew up. When you examine the degrees of many of the national leaders in technology or business, their degree is often not related to their work. How is that, some even dropped out of school. So then maybe we need to ask what makes a person a good citizen and a productive member of society. Could it be a liberal education steeped in philosophy?

"Is a liberal arts education for everyone? Probably not. Some people would rather do just about anything than major in philosophy, and that is fine. But a liberal arts education forms students to be a thoughtful and concerned citizens, and that is the subtext here. Educated, concerned citizens aren’t going to sit back and let the economic elite run the show. McCrory can critique the educated elite all that he wants, but when you pal around with the likes of Art Pope you really have no business accusing anyone else of elitism.

McCrory himself studied political science and education. Bennett, who was interviewing him, has a PhD in – you guessed it – philosophy. The underlying assumption appears to be that if you’re part of the upper class, you can enjoy the luxury of a liberal arts education. If you’re lower or middle class, the public institutions that are supposed to be part of the mythical “American dream,” that level playing field, should only offer courses in skilled trades. Wealthy young people will get a liberal arts education. Poor and middle class young people will choose a trade."

Femmonite: Notes from an Employed Philosopher

You are most certainly not a philosopher in any way.

 

[midcan5]

"What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not." Jeremy LaBorde

Greetings thinkers and doers, hope all are well. Wanted to share a few interesting pieces for your thinking enjoyment. Hume, censorship, and a book on the mind everyone should read.

'The mind requires some relaxation, and cannot always support its bent to care and industry.'

Hume is the amiable, modest, generous philosopher we need today | Aeon Essays

'Censorship And Social Media: Keeping Up With The Joneses'

Censorship and social media: Keeping up with the Joneses | 3 Quarks Daily

'Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain' David Eagleman

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain by David Eagleman

"Politics is opposed to morality, as philosophy to naivete." Emmanuel Levinas

 

[Unkotare]

I often read that students should study some field of knowledge that leads to productive work. But consider that my eventual working world did not even exist when I started college. My degree was eventually in Liberal Arts as I was never sure what I wanted to be when I grew up. When you examine the degrees of many of the national leaders in technology or business, their degree is often not related to their work. How is that, some even dropped out of school. So then maybe we need to ask what makes a person a good citizen and a productive member of society. Could it be a liberal education steeped in philosophy?

"Is a liberal arts education for everyone? Probably not. Some people would rather do just about anything than major in philosophy, and that is fine. But a liberal arts education forms students to be a thoughtful and concerned citizens, and that is the subtext here. Educated, concerned citizens aren’t going to sit back and let the economic elite run the show. McCrory can critique the educated elite all that he wants, but when you pal around with the likes of Art Pope you really have no business accusing anyone else of elitism.

McCrory himself studied political science and education. Bennett, who was interviewing him, has a PhD in – you guessed it – philosophy. The underlying assumption appears to be that if you’re part of the upper class, you can enjoy the luxury of a liberal arts education. If you’re lower or middle class, the public institutions that are supposed to be part of the mythical “American dream,” that level playing field, should only offer courses in skilled trades. Wealthy young people will get a liberal arts education. Poor and middle class young people will choose a trade."

Femmonite: Notes from an Employed Philosopher

You are most certainly not a philosopher in any way.

And you are?

 

[Votto]

I often read that students should study some field of knowledge that leads to productive work. But consider that my eventual working world did not even exist when I started college. My degree was eventually in Liberal Arts as I was never sure what I wanted to be when I grew up. When you examine the degrees of many of the national leaders in technology or business, their degree is often not related to their work. How is that, some even dropped out of school. So then maybe we need to ask what makes a person a good citizen and a productive member of society. Could it be a liberal education steeped in philosophy?

"Is a liberal arts education for everyone? Probably not. Some people would rather do just about anything than major in philosophy, and that is fine. But a liberal arts education forms students to be a thoughtful and concerned citizens, and that is the subtext here. Educated, concerned citizens aren’t going to sit back and let the economic elite run the show. McCrory can critique the educated elite all that he wants, but when you pal around with the likes of Art Pope you really have no business accusing anyone else of elitism.

McCrory himself studied political science and education. Bennett, who was interviewing him, has a PhD in – you guessed it – philosophy. The underlying assumption appears to be that if you’re part of the upper class, you can enjoy the luxury of a liberal arts education. If you’re lower or middle class, the public institutions that are supposed to be part of the mythical “American dream,” that level playing field, should only offer courses in skilled trades. Wealthy young people will get a liberal arts education. Poor and middle class young people will choose a trade."

Femmonite: Notes from an Employed Philosopher

Yes, concerned and thoughtful and educated citizens that are outnumbered by voters.

Why not just go stick your head in a fan instead?

 

[Lulllaboo]

I graduated from the Faculty of Philosophy.

 

[Unkotare]

I graduated from the Faculty of Philosophy.

Huh?

 

[midcan5]

Interesting OP on Russell.

"In the welter of conflicting fanaticisms, one of the few unifying forces is scientific truthfulness, by which I mean the habit of basing our beliefs upon observations and inferences as impersonal, and as much divested of local and temperamental bias, as is possible for human beings. To have insisted upon the introduction of this virtue into philosophy, and to have invented a powerful method by which it can be rendered fruitful, are the chief merits of the philosophical school of which I am a member. The habit of careful veracity acquired in the practice of this philosophical method can be extended to the whole sphere of human activity, producing, wherever it exists, a lessening of fanaticism with an increasing capacity of sympathy and mutual understanding. In abandoning a part of its dogmatic pretensions, philosophy does not cease to suggest and inspire a way of life."

Footnotes to Plato | Bertrand Russell: Science and philosophy


And reading recommendation: Things That Bother Me: Death, Freedom, the Self, Etc. by Galen Strawson

 

[midcan5]

A philosopher picks his favorite Americans of the 20th Century - my picks below

http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2018/10/my-five-favorite-americans-of-the-20th-century.htm

'My five favorite Americans of the 20th-century'

1. Eugene Debs. Stalwart if unsuccessful socialist agitator for an alternative to devotion to the market.
2. H.L. Mencken. Merciless critic of religious, patriotic and other bullshit, with his own parochial prejudices to be sure, but a great writer who punched up, down, and sideways without apology.
3. A. Philip Randolph. The most important labor and civil rights leader of the century, who made MLK possible, and who always championed, from the beginning, the interdependence of racial and economic progress.
4. Franklin Delano Roosevelt. He betrayed his class and saved America from fascism and probably saved the world from the Nazis. The Reagan reaction of the last forty years was against his vision for social democracy.
5. Bayard Rustin. He organized the 1963 March on Washington, and worked with A. Philip Randolph on behalf of the same goals: Randolph and Rustin were a team. He did all this as a gay African-American, and in the face of enormous bigotry both within and outside the movement. A person of enormous dignity and courage, whom I had the privilege to interview in the early 1980s. I will never forget it.

Your favorites?

My favorites. Usually I would select writers or artists but this time I selected people who actually did good things for all Americans.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Lyndon Baines Johnson
Harry S. Truman
Jimmy Carter
Pete Seeger

"Greatness is not found in possessions, power, position, or prestige. It is discovered in goodness, humility, service, and character." William Arthur Ward

 

[Unkotare]

A philosopher picks his favorite Americans of the 20th Century - my picks below

http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2018/10/my-five-favorite-americans-of-the-20th-century.htm

'My five favorite Americans of the 20th-century'

1. Eugene Debs. Stalwart if unsuccessful socialist agitator for an alternative to devotion to the market.
2. H.L. Mencken. Merciless critic of religious, patriotic and other bullshit, with his own parochial prejudices to be sure, but a great writer who punched up, down, and sideways without apology.
3. A. Philip Randolph. The most important labor and civil rights leader of the century, who made MLK possible, and who always championed, from the beginning, the interdependence of racial and economic progress.
4. Franklin Delano Roosevelt. He betrayed his class and saved America from fascism and probably saved the world from the Nazis. The Reagan reaction of the last forty years was against his vision for social democracy.
5. Bayard Rustin. He organized the 1963 March on Washington, and worked with A. Philip Randolph on behalf of the same goals: Randolph and Rustin were a team. He did all this as a gay African-American, and in the face of enormous bigotry both within and outside the movement. A person of enormous dignity and courage, whom I had the privilege to interview in the early 1980s. I will never forget it.

Your favorites?

My favorites. Usually I would select writers or artists but this time I selected people who actually did good things for all Americans.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Lyndon Baines Johnson
Harry S. Truman
Jimmy Carter
Pete Seeger

"Greatness is not found in possessions, power, position, or prestige. It is discovered in goodness, humility, service, and character." William Arthur Ward

You really think that piece of shit FDR did good things for “all Americans”? Give me a fucking break. And he betrayed his class? What a fucking joke that ass. He served his classes just fine.