Why the fight against Birth Control?

[Wyatt earp]

You want to make them take responsibility but you don't want to make that choice any easier by providing free bc.

You think abortion is horrible but you don't want to reduce the rates by making birth control free.

You want them to suffer the consequences for their bad choices but those consequences may include children which you also don't want to support on the government dime.

It seems that it's not just about personal responsibility, it's about moral judgements and punishment.

Of course it's horrible, yet you don't seem to think that people should be held accountable for their actions. If people are given birth control with other people's money, they aren't being held accountable.

Guess they should think about that before sleeping around.

Not true. Nobody else should be forced to pay for someone else's stuff. Something liberals seem take as the solution to literally everything. Something's wrong with society? Let everyone shirk their own responsibilities and everyone else can pay for it.

Yet I have to pay for the education of other people's kids

Not the same. Education benefits everyone. Birth Control for pleasure sack benefits only the selfish.

I seriously doubt there is anyone in the US (apart from the homeless) who truly couldn't afford a packet of condoms if they just got their priorities in order.

Tilly I guess we're going to get in a fight and I love you as a poster And as a person..

Again I am old but not that old I still remember my old girl friend using a tooth brush to do her eye brows when I was 18 she was 16

I said fuck that and took her to Walgreens and bought her the real stuff.. And another funny thing she lived in park ridge Illinois.. A rich suburb of Chicago.. Where Harrison Ford and Hillary Clinton grew up.

.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Gee, that's comparable, own the land you want to hunt?

okay polygomy. Back in the day the head honcho of the tribe had a harem of women. This is because he was the biggest baddest horndog on the block, and women were given protection by the biggest, baddest horndog. He was hard wired to shag a lot, she was hard wired to get protection. In muslim countries it is still legal. in western countries, illegal.

From a biological view point, it's much more basic. Unlike other primates - she has no estrus. Because it's hidden, he's hard wired to shag a lot, and she's hard wired to keep him guessing as to her exact reproductive status. Means they're both hard wired to fuck a lot since you never know if you'll ring the pregnancy bell and, somehow, it became enjoyable to both - another anomaly...but probably to encourage more shagging.

Well fuck it then! Let's all just have an orgy!

It can be argued that all children result from recreational sex. Why should I have to pay for that result by paying to educate your kids when I don't have kids?

The reason is an uneducated population is detrimental to our society, so it's in all our interests to pay for it. Likewise, unwanted pregnancies (whether or not you agree with how they came about) are also detrimental to our society and cost far more then the cost of preventing them.

I think the point is moot. A large percentage of people who get pregnant would forget to the take the pill anyway.

Yet - countries where it is freely available have lower rates of teen pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies and abortions then we do.

Nothing is free. Why don't you liberals get that?

Liberalism is an ideology whose goal is to share the burden of their own bad decisions across society as a whole.

Like Wall Street bank bailouts? Bipartisam just like everything else dumbass, you're just imprinted to focus upon one half of the perps. And it works everytime on partisanshitheads.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

Who, exactly, is fighting against birth control?

Mostly, it's offering it through the ACA that I mean.

Well, because the ACA is mandatory, and the Catholic Church does not believe in birth control, they don't believe they should be forced to offer it in their insurance programs to employees. So say the Little Sisters of the Poor.

That's why I left the Catholic Church..

But I will be damn if I stop asking for mother Mary for help..

I don't know what it is about her.. Every time I think about her she sends chills through my body..

Its like when every time I am abandon
I think of her and call her.. And she always never lets me down.

Mary has helped me out, too. I don't think she cares if you go to church.
I doubt she rejoices to see unwanted or addicted babies born into this world, or babies born into a family with no way to feed it.

Thank you I knew I wasn't special and the only one

 

[WaitingFor2020]

Pence is a big Catholic and wants to overturn Roe v Wade while making birth control more unattainable for everyone. Thanks, Trump.

Women Are Preparing for Trump and Pence’s Inevitable Assault on Reproductive Rights

Women Are Preparing for Trump and Pence’s Inevitable Assault on Reproductive Rights

 

[Tilly]

You want to make them take responsibility but you don't want to make that choice any easier by providing free bc.

You think abortion is horrible but you don't want to reduce the rates by making birth control free.

You want them to suffer the consequences for their bad choices but those consequences may include children which you also don't want to support on the government dime.

It seems that it's not just about personal responsibility, it's about moral judgements and punishment.

Of course it's horrible, yet you don't seem to think that people should be held accountable for their actions. If people are given birth control with other people's money, they aren't being held accountable.

Guess they should think about that before sleeping around.

Not true. Nobody else should be forced to pay for someone else's stuff. Something liberals seem take as the solution to literally everything. Something's wrong with society? Let everyone shirk their own responsibilities and everyone else can pay for it.

Yet I have to pay for the education of other people's kids

Not the same. Education benefits everyone. Birth Control for pleasure sack benefits only the selfish.

I seriously doubt there is anyone in the US (apart from the homeless) who truly couldn't afford a packet of condoms if they just got their priorities in order.

Tilly I guess we're going to get in a fight and I love you as a poster And as a person..

Again I am old but not that old I still remember my old girl friend using a tooth brush to do her eye brows when I was 18 she was 16

I said fuck that and took her to Walgreens and bought her the real stuff.. And another funny thing she lived in park ridge Illinois.. A rich suburb of Chicago.. Where Harrison Ford and Hillary Clinton grew up.

.

I don't know exactly what she was doing to her eyebrows, but you can get contraceptives for 'free' without forcing others to pay for it - maybe not eyebrow brushes though

give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime..

Personal responsibility is key, IMHO.

Some people can disagree amicably. And we are two such people, dear Bear

 

[Wyatt earp]

Pence is a big Catholic and wants to overturn Roe v Wade while making birth control more unattainable for everyone. Thanks, Trump.

Women Are Preparing for Trump and Pence’s Inevitable Assault on Reproductive Rights

Women Are Preparing for Trump and Pence’s Inevitable Assault on Reproductive Rights

Sorry to burst your fear mongering..

They won't do it because we will strike back

 

[Cecilie1200]

Is there such a thing as a private insurance plan that didn't/doesn't cover birth control? Do people realize that when they were purchasing BC/BS they were also paying in for birth control? Did Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses refuse insurance altogether back when that was allowed? It isn't actually any different.

I believe there have been plans in the past that allow the employer to tailor what they do and do not cover, but since the leftist usurpation of the healthcare system, and the mandates that all insurance must cover certain things, there's less leeway in that regard. Personally, I would prefer to have more tailoring available. I simply do not need to pay higher premiums to have my insurance cover things like prostate exams (since I don't have one) or birth control (since I'm old enough not to need it).

And yes, I believe Jehovah's Witnesses and other people who don't believe in using modern medicine DID, in fact, opt not to have insurance when that was possible. Also, a lot of people who were younger and healthy used to opt to not have insurance, or to have only the most catastrophic coverage.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Because the far right are a bunch of fascist that want to control you in their own way....Of course, they don't believe in ever helping you so it is a shit samwitch all around.

Yes but isn't demanding free stuff from us your way of controlling us?

Who wants free stuff from you hon? Where do you people come by this perceptual reality.

Who, precisely, do you think ultimately pays for the stuff you get from the government, Chuckles? Unless you're paying for that birth control with cash out of your own pocket, from your paycheck, where do you think that money's coming from? That's right: other people. Cash out of your paycheck, 100%, is the only possible way to get birth control without using other people's money.

So who has a reality problem here?

So it's basically like any insurance then isn't it. You're in a group and you all pay for the thing together, meaning you're also paying for someone else's birth control and someone else at times is paying for your shit.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

The problem is it is a lifestyle issue, not a healthcare issue. Are you going to provide free helmets for motorcyclists?

I disagree, it's not a lifestyle issue. For example birth control is used by married people. Reproduction and sex are pretty hardwired in our species. In terms of cost/benefit - it makes sense to provide free birth control and it certainly seems to correlate with lower rates of teen pregnancies and abortion.

Who BC is used by is irrelevant. The point is who pays for it. That should be the consumer. After all society didn't pay for your marriage either.

If you have any health insurance at all you are constantly paying for other people's shit just as they do yours. That is in fact the point, shared cost across the group.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Of course it's horrible, yet you don't seem to think that people should be held accountable for their actions. If people are given birth control with other people's money, they aren't being held accountable.

Guess they should think about that before sleeping around.

Not true. Nobody else should be forced to pay for someone else's stuff. Something liberals seem take as the solution to literally everything. Something's wrong with society? Let everyone shirk their own responsibilities and everyone else can pay for it.

Yet I have to pay for the education of other people's kids

Not the same. Education benefits everyone. Birth Control for pleasure sack benefits only the selfish.

I seriously doubt there is anyone in the US (apart from the homeless) who truly couldn't afford a packet of condoms if they just got their priorities in order.

Tilly I guess we're going to get in a fight and I love you as a poster And as a person..

Again I am old but not that old I still remember my old girl friend using a tooth brush to do her eye brows when I was 18 she was 16

I said fuck that and took her to Walgreens and bought her the real stuff.. And another funny thing she lived in park ridge Illinois.. A rich suburb of Chicago.. Where Harrison Ford and Hillary Clinton grew up.

.

I don't know exactly what she was doing to her eyebrows, but you can get contraceptives for 'free' without forcing others to pay for it - maybe not eyebrow brushes though

give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime..

Personal responsibility is key, IMHO.

Some people can disagree amicably. And we are two such people, dear Bear

I love that quote Tilly.. I guess you are going to fight me


I have a daughter.. And I still remember what it was to be 18 ..kids love sex.
No way around it...


Again Tilly what's better a little pill or them destroying their lives.. By abortion? I am not a girl but I have heard so many regrets by women who did that.

 

[Iceweasel]

Birth control is easily and cheaply available. Only a special kind of retard thinks the rate of unwanted pregnancies is the result of the unavailability of birth control.

As birth control has become more and more available, unwanted pregnancies and single parenthood have skyrocketed.

So this problem has NOTHING to do with "free" birth control and EVERYTHING to do with the encouragement and incentivizing of irresponsible behavior.

Access to free birth control reduces abortion rates

Colorado’s Effort Against Teenage Pregnancies Is a Startling Success

That is a chart of all out of wedlock births, not just teen pregnancies and abortions. It includes everyone and says as much about changing attitudes towards marriage and childbirth as it does birth control. Before the 60's out of wedlock births were largely handled by forced marriages.

Teen pregnancies and abortion rates are the most concerning. And free birth control has shown to have an effect on those trends.

There's no such thing as free products. And more people stayed together in the "forced marriages" than they do now. I don't want to pay for someone else birth control, plus we are having far fewer kids these days. Look at Europe, they need mass Muslim immigration to take care of the aging population.

 

[Cecilie1200]

As a follow-up, I should say that I am one of those people who prefers to simply have catastrophic coverage, and I'm extremely pleased by one of the plans my employer offers. It covers extremely basic things, such as an annual physical for each member of the family and vaccinations for my minor child and annual cancer screenings (since my family has a very high incidence of cancer), and then has a high deductible and very low premiums. My family all tends to be obscenely healthy, which means we almost never visit the doctor, and when we do, it tends to be for something very big and expensive (like my children's propensity for forehead injuries requiring stitches. No idea what's up with that) which is going to meet the deductible all in one fell swoop.

The reason this works out so very nicely for us is that my employer pairs this plan with an HSA, into which they put a minimum of $50 each pay period, and then match whatever amount I want to contribute to it. Instead of having my money vanish out the door every two weeks for nothing, it goes somewhere that it's actually available for use when I need it. And if we never get sick, then that money can be used for things like replacing my hearing aid or upgrading to nicer lenses on my glasses or any of the other non-essential medical things Americans spend money on simply to make life more pleasant.

I realize it's not the medical equivalent of insurance to put gas in the tank, change the oil, and wash the windshields that leftists envision, but I rather like controlling my money and my healthcare just like I'm an intelligent adult. Go figure.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Birth control is easily and cheaply available. Only a special kind of retard thinks the rate of unwanted pregnancies is the result of the unavailability of birth control.

As birth control has become more and more available, unwanted pregnancies and single parenthood have skyrocketed.

So this problem has NOTHING to do with "free" birth control and EVERYTHING to do with the encouragement and incentivizing of irresponsible behavior.

Access to free birth control reduces abortion rates

Colorado’s Effort Against Teenage Pregnancies Is a Startling Success

That is a chart of all out of wedlock births, not just teen pregnancies and abortions. It includes everyone and says as much about changing attitudes towards marriage and childbirth as it does birth control. Before the 60's out of wedlock births were largely handled by forced marriages.

Teen pregnancies and abortion rates are the most concerning. And free birth control has shown to have an effect on those trends.

There's no such thing as free products. And more people stayed together in the "forced marriages" than they do now. I don't want to pay for someone else birth control, plus we are having far fewer kids these days. Look at Europe, they need mass Muslim immigration to take care of the aging population.

What? You are lying. ..

No woman stays in a forced marriage anymore.. Exspacily in America

Hell I remember when I was a taxi cab driver during the recision.
I picked up a woman and her daughter and took her to a hotel.. And I didn't even charge her.
That ride was on me..

Her . Husband called.. And wanted to know where I dropped his wife and daughter off.. I told him to fuck off.. I am not telling you asshole

 

[Cecilie1200]

Because the far right are a bunch of fascist that want to control you in their own way....Of course, they don't believe in ever helping you so it is a shit samwitch all around.

Yes but isn't demanding free stuff from us your way of controlling us?

Who wants free stuff from you hon? Where do you people come by this perceptual reality.

Who, precisely, do you think ultimately pays for the stuff you get from the government, Chuckles? Unless you're paying for that birth control with cash out of your own pocket, from your paycheck, where do you think that money's coming from? That's right: other people. Cash out of your paycheck, 100%, is the only possible way to get birth control without using other people's money.

So who has a reality problem here?

So it's basically like any insurance then isn't it. You're in a group and you all pay for the thing together, meaning you're also paying for someone else's birth control and someone else at times is paying for your shit.

Yes, and that's exactly my point. BECAUSE it is a group, and BECAUSE other people's money is going into it, I recognize that those other people get - and SHOULD get - a say in what they do and do not want that money to pay for. If I happened to work for a devout Catholic employer, I would not be at all surprised that they did not wish to pay into that coverage, and that we would need to come to some reasonable compromise as mature adults do.

As I said in another post, I'm quite a fan of HSAs, which allow my employer to simply give me money and I decide what and when to spend it, similar to the way my actual paycheck works.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Seriously...I just don't get it.

What's wrong with letting women have it?

The argument that they shouldn't have it free doesn't fly. ACA includes a bunch of different free items: Preventive care benefits for adults - but I have yet to hear an argument against aspirin or vaccinations being offered and birth control is a relatively cheap thing to offer.

The Pill is, as of this time, the most reliable method of pregnancy prevention. Yes...abstinence itself works, but isn't realistic as few people stick with it and, frankly, why should they if the pill can offer a more reliable option if they don't want to be abstinent? There is a direct correlation between preventing unwanted pregnancies, particularly teens, and the availability of reliable contraception.

The problem is it is a lifestyle issue, not a healthcare issue. Are you going to provide free helmets for motorcyclists?

I disagree, it's not a lifestyle issue. For example birth control is used by married people. Reproduction and sex are pretty hardwired in our species. In terms of cost/benefit - it makes sense to provide free birth control and it certainly seems to correlate with lower rates of teen pregnancies and abortion.

Who BC is used by is irrelevant. The point is who pays for it. That should be the consumer. After all society didn't pay for your marriage either.

If you have any health insurance at all you are constantly paying for other people's shit just as they do yours. That is in fact the point, shared cost across the group.

No, the POINT is that BECAUSE it's shared coverage, you don't get to simply demand that those others give you what you want and sit down and shut up if they don't agree with you.

 

[Iceweasel]

Birth control is easily and cheaply available. Only a special kind of retard thinks the rate of unwanted pregnancies is the result of the unavailability of birth control.

As birth control has become more and more available, unwanted pregnancies and single parenthood have skyrocketed.

So this problem has NOTHING to do with "free" birth control and EVERYTHING to do with the encouragement and incentivizing of irresponsible behavior.

Access to free birth control reduces abortion rates

Colorado’s Effort Against Teenage Pregnancies Is a Startling Success

That is a chart of all out of wedlock births, not just teen pregnancies and abortions. It includes everyone and says as much about changing attitudes towards marriage and childbirth as it does birth control. Before the 60's out of wedlock births were largely handled by forced marriages.

Teen pregnancies and abortion rates are the most concerning. And free birth control has shown to have an effect on those trends.

There's no such thing as free products. And more people stayed together in the "forced marriages" than they do now. I don't want to pay for someone else birth control, plus we are having far fewer kids these days. Look at Europe, they need mass Muslim immigration to take care of the aging population.

What? You are lying. ..

No woman stays in a forced marriage anymore.. Exspacily in America

Hell I remember when I was a taxi cab driver during the recision.
I picked up a woman and her daughter and took her to a hotel.. And I didn't even charge her.
That ride was on me..

Her . Husband called.. And wanted to know where I dropped his wife and daughter off.. I told him to fuck off.. I am not telling you asshole

You should read the posts if you are going to respond. She brought up marriages in 60s and there was a stigma attached to being an unwed mother. Plus it wasn't so easy to do back then. And a great many men felt obligated, unlike today's irresponsible breed.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Because the far right are a bunch of fascist that want to control you in their own way....Of course, they don't believe in ever helping you so it is a shit samwitch all around.

Yes but isn't demanding free stuff from us your way of controlling us?

Who wants free stuff from you hon? Where do you people come by this perceptual reality.

Who, precisely, do you think ultimately pays for the stuff you get from the government, Chuckles? Unless you're paying for that birth control with cash out of your own pocket, from your paycheck, where do you think that money's coming from? That's right: other people. Cash out of your paycheck, 100%, is the only possible way to get birth control without using other people's money.

So who has a reality problem here?

So it's basically like any insurance then isn't it. You're in a group and you all pay for the thing together, meaning you're also paying for someone else's birth control and someone else at times is paying for your shit.

Yes, and that's exactly my point. BECAUSE it is a group, and BECAUSE other people's money is going into it, I recognize that those other people get - and SHOULD get - a say in what they do and do not want that money to pay for. If I happened to work for a devout Catholic employer, I would not be at all surprised that they did not wish to pay into that coverage, and that we would need to come to some reasonable compromise as mature adults do.

As I said in another post, I'm quite a fan of HSAs, which allow my employer to simply give me money and I decide what and when to spend it, similar to the way my actual paycheck works.

And yet we do this through employer/work healthcare plans all the time and not so much as a peep from anyone.

And you get no say while you say nothing.

 

[WaitingFor2020]

Pence is a big Catholic and wants to overturn Roe v Wade while making birth control more unattainable for everyone. Thanks, Trump.

Women Are Preparing for Trump and Pence’s Inevitable Assault on Reproductive Rights

Women Are Preparing for Trump and Pence’s Inevitable Assault on Reproductive Rights

Sorry to burst your fear mongering..

They won't do it because we will strike back

Unlike righties here, I don't make this shit up.

 

[sartre play]

Was a simple question, do you support birth control being available to all. YES. lets cut the teen pregnant rate, and abortions

 

[Iceweasel]

Pence is a big Catholic and wants to overturn Roe v Wade while making birth control more unattainable for everyone. Thanks, Trump.

Women Are Preparing for Trump and Pence’s Inevitable Assault on Reproductive Rights

Women Are Preparing for Trump and Pence’s Inevitable Assault on Reproductive Rights

Sorry to burst your fear mongering..

They won't do it because we will strike back

Unlike righties here, I don't make this shit up.

LOL, nothing you say is true.