Why the USSR won against Nazi Germany

[Deadstick]

Why would i be pissed because the Nazis and Japs lost? members of my family fought for six years making sure they did.

What is fake news Mr Smith you arsehole?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The Battle for Moscow took place in Sept. 1941 to Jan.1942. As already mentioned, Churchill sent enough tanks to allow the Soviets to conduct few small offensives, but not to drive the Germans off. It was over a year and half later before the Soviets could launch real offensives against German armies, Kursk in the summer of 1943. The Soviets were saved in no small part by massive mine fields, some 27 to 25 miles deep, and anti-tank guns, their two main weapons at the time, sufficient to stop the 'blitzkreigs' and rapid armor advances.

The Allies had already launched their massive bombing campaigns by then, and the U.S., now fighting on multiple fronts, was supplying all our allies as well, and we were landing in North Africa in Nov. 1942 and in Italy a month or so after the Kursk offensive started. the U.S. now fighting on three fronts, and with Normandy, 4, all the while supplying our allies as well as ourselves.

Only complete idiots still claim 'Russians won the war n stuff'. They were just the hired help, and were only in the war because we paid and fed them. This isn't even debatable.

And, the T-34 was not 'the best tank of the war', it was a pieces of shit and don't do much until the 1944 models rolled off the lines with British engineers overseeing the lines an American improvements made in the design. Even then it fared badly against German armor. The Sherman did pretty well against them in Korea.

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ff38aa840ec51957611892775e91650c

From this topic at the Quora; more stats there as well.

How many tanks were destroyed or taken out of action by communist forces in the Korean war?

Answer: Data on the Korean War is somewhat confusing as far as my research shows. There is reasonable coverage up to the start of 1951 Losses shown from Ref 1 up to 21 Jan 1951 The US logged 119 tank v tank actions during the entire conflict; about half of thee engagement involved M4 Shermans....

www.quora.com

Also see

The T-34 in WWII: the Legend vs. the Performance | Operation Barbarrosa

www.operationbarbarossa.net

"The T-34’s Performance in 1944​

Even the Soviets realised that the 1943 loss/kill ratio was unsustainable. In order to restore the technological balance they attenuated T-34/76 production and moved quickly to up gun the T-34 with a new turret and the 85mm M-1944 ZIS-S53 L/51.5 gun, designated the T-34/85.


By 1944 the Soviets had the absolute strategic initiative, with massive numerical superiority, and in terms of supply distribution and support, operational superiority. They had the luxury of being able to concentrate large armoured forces at any points on the front they desired while still being able to strongly defend everywhere. In terms of tactical combat proficiency, the Soviets could claim to have tank crews as well trained and experienced as the Germans. In addition the RAF and USAF had given the Soviets critical air superiority for the first time. For most of 1944 the Soviets had technical parity in terms of AFVs, with the large majority of T-34s now being the T-34/85s. The Soviets, and most modern publications, claim the T-34/85 was much superior to any model Pz IV or StuG assault gun and similar in combat power to the Panther. On top of this the Soviets had large numbers of the new IS-2 heavy tanks, one of the most powerful tanks in WWII, as well as the almost equally powerful ISU-122 and ISU-152 assault guns.(19)


In 1944 the Soviets still managed to lose 23 700 fully tracked AFVs of which only 2 200 were light tanks: the highest number of AFV losses in a single year by any country in history.(20) Of these losses 58% were T-34s, the large majority being T-34/85s. Despite all possible factors being in their favour and despite massive German operational losses during 1944, the Soviets still managed to loose around three AFVs for every German AFV destroyed, or around four tanks (mostly T-34/85s) for every German tank destroyed."

Don’t forget, the Soviets were being fed daily, perfect Intel in the entire Eastern Front by the British Ultra code breakers

 

[the watcher]

Our programmed hate for Russia is so ingrained by 70 years of positive reinforcement by the state and state owned media that all that is left for us is to speculate and mumble. It is probably the same in Russia, but probably not as accepted as gospel like it is here. Boomers grew up hiding under their desks, young people now are raised on tik tok, nothing changes except the economy heading downhill and the loss of individual freedom, which the next generation will never know existed.

 

[DudleySmith]

Our programmed hate for Russia is so ingrained by 70 years of positive reinforcement by the state and state owned media that all that is left for us is to speculate and mumble. It is probably the same in Russia, but probably not as accepted as gospel like it is here. Boomers grew up hiding under their desks, young people now are raised on tik tok, nothing changes except the economy heading downhill and the loss of individual freedom, which the next generation will never know existed.

Right wingers today worship Putin no end, because like the Red Chinese he lets a few oligarchs loot the country and companies like Black Rock want to manage their money laundering for them, is all. They admire any regime that will think nothing of murdering millions of uppity proles if they dare cost a bunch of Wall Street speculators a few cents in dividends.

 

[DudleySmith]

Don’t forget, the Soviets were being fed daily, perfect Intel in the entire Eastern Front by the British Ultra code breakers

Yes, that too. Also don't forget they were able to send almost a million men to the Moscow Front because they agreed to give the Japanese, our enemies, their eastern oil reserves in exchange for not kicking their asses in the East.


Harry Truman, in as a Congressman in 1939 or so, suggested we back Germany against the Soviets, and then switch to supporting the Soviets when the Germans got the upper hand, then switch back when the Soviets were ahead, until they were both exhausted or lost.
Sounds good, until you realize the Germans were going to beat the Russians without needing our help and the Soviets were dead in the water without continuous massive western handouts, not just weapons but alloys, fuel, gunpowder, food, boots, etc.. As already noted, they couldn't shit for a year and half after the Battle For Moscow, and after Hitler stripped the Luftwaffe and antiaircraft units from the eastern front.

 

[Deadstick]

Right wingers today worship Putin no end, because like the Red Chinese he lets a few oligarchs loot the country and companies like Black Rock want to manage their money laundering for them, is all. They admire any regime that will think nothing of murdering millions of uppity proles if they dare cost a bunch of Wall Street speculators a few cents in dividends.

What a funny guy you are, it was that US puppet and all round court jester Yeltsin who allowed Oligarchs and Western Corporate jackals to loot the Country, Putin stopped them you brain dead arsehole.

 

[Deadstick]

I didn't say the Soviets defeated the Nazis on their own,and the Soviet Union allowed Finland to exist after the war on which they were on Hitlers side if they promised to be non aligned and not hostile to Russia, on that deal they didn't occupy Finland that is what they signed up to, and for almost 80 years there were no problems between Finland and Russia then they went insane and decided to join the criminal gang known as Nato and become an enemy of Russia,as for the rest of my post are you telling me the Americans didn't employ former Nazi SS killers like Klaus Barbie the Butcher of Lyon and post war West Germany never employed former Nazi Judges etc, give your head a shake.

There you go again laughing boy but no answers, is it laughing or hysteria?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

History is indispensable if you wish to know how and why you have arrived at the place you find yourself and want to avoid repeated consequences. It is useless if you are ignorant or accept alternative timelines, and you must live with what happens around you, so history is a valuable commodity and highly sought by those in power.

Histwhorians Write What the Ruling Class Tells Them to Write

 

[PoliticalChic]

Not so fast...he did give one 'gift'...

Roosevelt flooded Stalin with Lend-Lease aid- food, planes, tools and supplies in large quantities. Stalin, in turn, planted spies in the United States who worked their way into key positions in the American government. They influenced U.S. policy to favor Russia; they sent copies of government documents to Russia; and they described U.S. plans in messages to Russia. Stalin knew about the development of the atomic bomb before President Truman did. Folsom and Folsom, "FDR Goes To War," p. 304.

1. It is well known and documented that FDR's administration was riddled with Stalin's agents, and, in many ways, policy was directed from Moscow. Case in point, aid to Mao and resistance to helping Chiang Kaichek. Less well known, when told about the spies, Roosevelt simply laughed.

2. Further, supplies didn't just "flow" to the Soviet Union, they flooded it, including non-military supplies: a tire plant, an oil refinery, pipe-fabricating works, over a million miles of copper wire, switchboard-panels, lathes and power tools, textile machinery, woodworking, typesetting, cranes hoists, derricks, air compressors, $152 million in women's 'dress goods,' 18.4 million pounds of writing paper, cigarette cases, jeweled watches, lipstick, liquor, bathtubs, and pianos.

a. " A year and a half after WWII began in Europe, Roosevelt’s Lend-Lease supplied a prodigious amount of war materiel to Russia, without which the embattled Red Army, the only challenge to Hitler’s forces, would have been defeated. The temporary congruence of interests was called an alliance, albeit a strange one. For example, when the Americans tried to find a way that long-range American bombers could land in Russia to re-fuel, so as to bomb deep into Germany, the Russians were found to be suspicious, ungrateful, secretive, xenophobic, unfriendly, in short….a great deal of take and very little give." “The Anti-Communist Manifestos,” by John V. Fleming, chapter six.

3. George Kennan wrote: "there is no adequate justification for continuing a program of lavish and almost indiscriminate aid to the Soviet Union at a time when there was increasing reason to doubt whether her purposes in Eastern Europe, aside from the defeat of Germany, would be ones which we Americans could approve and sponsor." George C. Herring, "Aid to Russia," p. xvii.

4. I challenge FDR apologists to explain government largesse to Soviet Russia, even superseding Allied, or even American military needs. Or American civilian needs: 217,660,666 pounds of butter shipped to the USSR during a time of strict state-side rationing. John R. Deane, "The Strange Alliance: The Story of Our Efforts at Wartime Cooperation With Russia," p.94-95.

a. "The President has directed that 'airplanes be delivered in accordance with protocol schedules by the most expeditious means.' To implement these directives, the modification, equipment and movement of Russian planes have been given first priority, even over planes for US Army Air Forces." From the diaries of Maj. George Racey Jordan, supervisory 'expediter' of Soviet Lend-Lease aid, p. 20.

b. At Congressional Hearing Regarding Shipments of Atomic Material to the Soviet Union During WWII, Washington GPO, 1950, p.909-910, Major Jordon would tell Congress that he kept this presidential directive on his person to show incredulous officers.

5. What was the cost of FDR's unswerving dedication to the Soviets? One example, found in Paul Johnson's "Modern Times," 'included 200 modern fighter aircraft, originally intended for Britain's highly vulnerable base in Singapore, which had no modern fighters at all. The diversion of these aircraft, plus tanks, to Russia sealed the fate of Singapore." Johnson, Op.Cit., p. 386.

a. Singapore fell February 15, 1942.

6. "He (FDR) left no doubt of the importance he attached to aid to Russia. 'I would go out and take the stuff off the shelves of the stores,' he told [Treasure Secretary Henry] Morganthau on March 11, 1942, 'and pay them any price necessary, and put it in a truck and rush it to the boat...Nothing would be worse than to have the Russians collapse." George C. Herring, "Aid to Russia," p. 42,56.

a. Be clear as what 'nothing' meant. Japan attacked 151,000 Americans and Filipinos stationed in the Philippines. Think Bataan and Corregidor. The 200 modern fighters originally meant for Singapore would have been there...but were in Russia.

b. Roosevelt: "I would rather lose New Zealand, Australia or anything else than have the Russian front collapse." Robert Dallek, "Franklin D. Roosevelt and American Foreign Policy, 1932-1945," p. 338.



When one begins to consider FDR's 'Russia Uber Alles' policy, evidence form KGB archived, opened in 1991, and the Venona Papers, sheds dispositive light on the reasons for said policy.



Was FDR a dupe of Soviet influence?



No doubt.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Histwhorians Write What the Ruling Class Tells Them to Write

1. It is well known and documented that FDR's administration was riddled with Stalin's agents, and, in many ways, policy was directed from Moscow. Case in point, aid to Mao and resistance to helping Chiang Kaichek. Less well known, when told about the spies, Roosevelt simply laughed.

2. Further, supplies didn't just "flow" to the Soviet Union, they flooded it, including non-military supplies: a tire plant, an oil refinery, pipe-fabricating works, over a million miles of copper wire, switchboard-panels, lathes and power tools, textile machinery, woodworking, typesetting, cranes hoists, derricks, air compressors, $152 million in women's 'dress goods,' 18.4 million pounds of writing paper, cigarette cases, jeweled watches, lipstick, liquor, bathtubs, and pianos.

a. " A year and a half after WWII began in Europe, Roosevelt’s Lend-Lease supplied a prodigious amount of war materiel to Russia, without which the embattled Red Army, the only challenge to Hitler’s forces, would have been defeated. The temporary congruence of interests was called an alliance, albeit a strange one. For example, when the Americans tried to find a way that long-range American bombers could land in Russia to re-fuel, so as to bomb deep into Germany, the Russians were found to be suspicious, ungrateful, secretive, xenophobic, unfriendly, in short….a great deal of take and very little give." “The Anti-Communist Manifestos,” by John V. Fleming, chapter six.

3. George Kennan wrote: "there is no adequate justification for continuing a program of lavish and almost indiscriminate aid to the Soviet Union at a time when there was increasing reason to doubt whether her purposes in Eastern Europe, aside from the defeat of Germany, would be ones which we Americans could approve and sponsor." George C. Herring, "Aid to Russia," p. xvii.

4. I challenge FDR apologists to explain government largesse to Soviet Russia, even superseding Allied, or even American military needs. Or American civilian needs: 217,660,666 pounds of butter shipped to the USSR during a time of strict state-side rationing. John R. Deane, "The Strange Alliance: The Story of Our Efforts at Wartime Cooperation With Russia," p.94-95.

a. "The President has directed that 'airplanes be delivered in accordance with protocol schedules by the most expeditious means.' To implement these directives, the modification, equipment and movement of Russian planes have been given first priority, even over planes for US Army Air Forces." From the diaries of Maj. George Racey Jordan, supervisory 'expediter' of Soviet Lend-Lease aid, p. 20.

b. At Congressional Hearing Regarding Shipments of Atomic Material to the Soviet Union During WWII, Washington GPO, 1950, p.909-910, Major Jordon would tell Congress that he kept this presidential directive on his person to show incredulous officers.

5. What was the cost of FDR's unswerving dedication to the Soviets? One example, found in Paul Johnson's "Modern Times," 'included 200 modern fighter aircraft, originally intended for Britain's highly vulnerable base in Singapore, which had no modern fighters at all. The diversion of these aircraft, plus tanks, to Russia sealed the fate of Singapore." Johnson, Op.Cit., p. 386.

a. Singapore fell February 15, 1942.

6. "He (FDR) left no doubt of the importance he attached to aid to Russia. 'I would go out and take the stuff off the shelves of the stores,' he told [Treasure Secretary Henry] Morganthau on March 11, 1942, 'and pay them any price necessary, and put it in a truck and rush it to the boat...Nothing would be worse than to have the Russians collapse." George C. Herring, "Aid to Russia," p. 42,56.

a. Be clear as what 'nothing' meant. Japan attacked 151,000 Americans and Filipinos stationed in the Philippines. Think Bataan and Corregidor. The 200 modern fighters originally meant for Singapore would have been there...but were in Russia.

b. Roosevelt: "I would rather lose New Zealand, Australia or anything else than have the Russian front collapse." Robert Dallek, "Franklin D. Roosevelt and American Foreign Policy, 1932-1945," p. 338.



When one begins to consider FDR's 'Russia Uber Alles' policy, evidence form KGB archived, opened in 1991, and the Venona Papers, sheds dispositive light on the reasons for said policy.



Was FDR a dupe of Soviet influence?



No doubt.

 

[Ringo]

As already pointed out, for decades, actually, they were only in the war because we supplied them with nearly everything. They were just the hired help.

Really? Do you think that the United States, being on the other side of the globe, supplied everything to the USSR? How did it happen that Germany, a strong European power using the resources of the entire occupied Europe, could not supply just one army in Stalingrad... It was very close for them and the USSR had almost no American weapons at that time... 90% of land- Lease went to England. In the USSR, Lend-Lease accounted for 4% of all weapons and military materials used by the USSR in the war.

 

[BS Filter]

Really? Do you think that the United States, being on the other side of the globe, supplied everything to the USSR? How did it happen that Germany, a strong European power using the resources of the entire occupied Europe, could not supply just one army in Stalingrad... It was very close for them and the USSR had almost no American weapons at that time... 90% of land- Lease went to England. In the USSR, Lend-Lease accounted for 4% of all weapons and military materials used by the USSR in the war.

Nikita Khrushchev, who led the Soviet Union from 1953 to 1964, agreed with Stalin’s assessment. In his memoirs, Khrushchev described how Stalin stressed the value of Lend-Lease aid: “He stated bluntly that if the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war.”

 

[Ringo]

Stalin stressed the value of Lend-Lease aid: “He stated bluntly that if the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war.”

Most of the Lend Lease began arriving after the Battle of Kursk, when the tide of war turned decisively against Germany. Without Lend Lease, the war could have lasted longer. But the Soviet Union also helped the United States crush Japan in August 1945. Without this, the American command planned to fight the war until 1946 or even 1947 with huge losses in the event of a landing in Japan. For some reason I never hear kind words from Americans for this.

 

[BS Filter]

Most of the Lend Lease began arriving after the Battle of Kursk, when the tide of war turned decisively against Germany. Without Lend Lease, the war could have lasted longer. But the Soviet Union also helped the United States crush Japan in August 1945. Without this, the American command planned to fight the war until 1946 or even 1947 with huge losses in the event of a landing in Japan. For some reason I never hear kind words from Americans for this.

Thank God we got the bomb. Probably saved half a million American lives.

 

[DudleySmith]

Really? Do you think that the United States, being on the other side of the globe, supplied everything to the USSR? How did it happen that Germany, a strong European power using the resources of the entire occupied Europe, could not supply just one army in Stalingrad... It was very close for them and the USSR had almost no American weapons at that time... 90% of land- Lease went to England. In the USSR, Lend-Lease accounted for 4% of all weapons and military materials used by the USSR in the war.

lol please post more ridiculous nonsense. It's entertaining.

 

[AZrailwhale]

I didn't say the Soviets defeated the Nazis on their own,and the Soviet Union allowed Finland to exist after the war on which they were on Hitlers side if they promised to be non aligned and not hostile to Russia, on that deal they didn't occupy Finland that is what they signed up to, and for almost 80 years there were no problems between Finland and Russia then they went insane and decided to join the criminal gang known as Nato and become an enemy of Russia,as for the rest of my post are you telling me the Americans didn't employ former Nazi SS killers like Klaus Barbie the Butcher of Lyon and post war West Germany never employed former Nazi Judges etc, give your head a shake.

You mean Russia blackmailed Finland for almost eighty years until Finland finally saw the truth of the old saying “ when you pay the Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane”. As long as Finland allowed Russia to keep blackmailing them, they always had to fear being engulfed by Russia like South Ossetia and Crimea were. NATO was Finland’s salvation, not it’s doom.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Most of the Lend Lease began arriving after the Battle of Kursk, when the tide of war turned decisively against Germany. Without Lend Lease, the war could have lasted longer. But the Soviet Union also helped the United States crush Japan in August 1945. Without this, the American command planned to fight the war until 1946 or even 1947 with huge losses in the event of a landing in Japan. For some reason I never hear kind words from Americans for this.

By 1945 we didn’t need the Soviets to defeat Japan. The IJA forces on the Asian mainland were isolated from Japan and had already been stripped of their experienced manpower and best equipment to be shipped to the Home Islands to fight the invasion. The Russians would have had no part in the fighting in Japan except for a very minor invasion of Hokkaido in less than division strength.

 

[GLASNOST]

The USSR won because .....

If you've ever seen Russian MMA fighters you wouldn't need to speculate. Russians know how to take severe pain and carry on fighting.

The USSR didn't defeat Nazi Germany on their own.

In the East, they most certainly defeated Nazi Germany "on their own".

The only country at the time that could have defeated Nazi Germany one on one was America!

Not even close. Without help from the British Empire, the USSR, and the partisans from all over Eastern and Western Europe the US would have floundered in Cornwall.

 

[Deadstick]

You mean Russia blackmailed Finland for almost eighty years until Finland finally saw the truth of the old saying “ when you pay the Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane”. As long as Finland allowed Russia to keep blackmailing them, they always had to fear being engulfed by Russia like South Ossetia and Crimea were. NATO was Finland’s salvation, not it’s doom.

Blackmailed how? you are talking total bollocks, Nato shouldn't even exist it's just a violent criminal gang an enforcer for the US Reich, it just hit the buffers in Ukraine.

 

[Deadstick]

Most of the Lend Lease began arriving after the Battle of Kursk, when the tide of war turned decisively against Germany. Without Lend Lease, the war could have lasted longer. But the Soviet Union also helped the United States crush Japan in August 1945. Without this, the American command planned to fight the war until 1946 or even 1947 with huge losses in the event of a landing in Japan. For some reason I never hear kind words from Americans for this.

Indeed i don't recall any Shermans at Kursk LOL! and that was the biggest tank battle in History.