Why was Antebellum Southern Slavery Immoral?

[JakeStarkey]

Pull the stick outta your ass fool.....if you could read you'd already know there was a cotton plantation on my father's side of the line....I believe I'll accept anecdotal accounts of life on that farm over some tight-assed yankee putz with an agenda. And my name ain't bubba either, Sally.

We had several slave owners in our lines as well, with same exculpatory anecdotal nonsense that "it wasn't all the bad, we treated our 'darkies' well, and blah blah blah."

When you do the requisite studying, reading, and reflecting, we can talk sensibly.

How about you go fuck yourself instead?

Yep, that is the response one would expect from a low-information voter and useful tool.

 

[Boss]

Many Americans never thought slavery was fine and acceptable. To suggest otherwise is to apply a standard that did not exist in Slave America. And slave owners are not the equivalent of women who have abortions today any more than when women had abortions in Slave America. That is revisionism of the worst sort.

Many Americans never thought abortion was fine and acceptable. It's legal, we allow it to happen, a million lives a year are sucked down a tube because of a Supreme Court ruling. The purpose of the comparison is to illustrate moral equivalency, and how it is perceived in the times. We make all kinds of seemingly rational excuses to allow abortion to continue, just as we made all kinds of seemingly rational excuses to maintain slavery. Doesn't make it morally right, it just makes it societally acceptable. Slavery was societally acceptable in 1860.

In fact, it was an even smaller percentage of the population in 1860 who opposed slavery, than currently oppose abortion. This is why slavery persisted from the time of our founding until after the Civil War. We live in a representative republic, don't you imagine if abolitionists were in such large numbers, we could have banned slavery before then? Why didn't that happen? It was obviously immoral... how could we have not realized that? Well, the same reason we currently don't seem to realize how immoral it is to kill babies. We justified it! We built a wall of excuses and reasons it had to be a "necessary evil" and we had to put up with it as a society. Women have to be given their right to choice...plantation owners had to be given their right to property.... and the beat goes on.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, "slavery was" no longer "societally acceptable in 1860" in the north and the west and in portions of the south.

Your revisionism, boss, falls apart as do all derivative analogies eventually.

 

[JoeBlam]

We had several slave owners in our lines as well, with same exculpatory anecdotal nonsense that "it wasn't all the bad, we treated our 'darkies' well, and blah blah blah."

When you do the requisite studying, reading, and reflecting, we can talk sensibly.

How about you go fuck yourself instead?

Yep, that is the response one would expect from a low-information voter and useful tool.

You're too cowardly to insult me...hell, you can't even address me...you refer to me. Now how about you waddle off and do whatever it is you leftist doorknobs do when you're embarrassed....surely you have plenty of experience at it. Buh bye, Sally.

 

[JakeStarkey]

JoeBlam, you are an internet wannabee tough guy.

No one cares.

When you can write intelligently on the subject, we can have an adult conversation.

 

[JoeBlam]

No, "slavery was" no longer "societally acceptable in 1860" in the north and the west and in portions of the south.

Your revisionism, boss, falls apart as do all derivative analogies eventually.

You're trying to mask the fact you can't write a coherent sentence by pulling words out of a thesaurus...you ain't foolin anybody but yourself, Sally.

 

[JoeBlam]

JoeBlam, you are an internet wannabee tough guy.

No one cares.

When you can write intelligently on the subject, we can have an adult conversation.

No, I'm as bad a badass as you'll ever run across, Sally. Ask somebody what Echo-Recon and LRRP was all about in the RVN.....you care, otherwise you'd be long gone by now ya weak-suck joke.

 

[Unkotare]

I know why I believe it was, but I would like to compare notes.

Why was the slavery of the pre-Civil War Southern US immoral?

If you're fishing for something, you need bigger bait. What are you getting at?

 

[Unkotare]

I'm as bad a badass as you'll ever run across, Sally. .

Sad old fool in his kitty-cat stance playing make-pretend eye gouge.

 

[Unkotare]

Many Americans never thought abortion was fine and acceptable. .

Many Americans never thought slavery was fine and acceptable.

 

[Unkotare]

It wasn't immoral at the time. Not any more than historical slavery was ever immoral..

I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "morality."

 

[Boss]

I would be surprised if slaves were actually abused more than other poor people such as sharecroppers, the women and children that worked in Northern factories, coal miners, and railway gangs come to mind. Slaves were considered property and required considerable financial investment and maintenance not required by other workers. You don't abuse the tools required to earn a living unless you're an idiot.

Some slaves suffered most horrific abuses and general humiliation. However, I don't believe it was as frequent and extreme as we are shown through historical documentaries and accounts. Have you ever seen a movie where slaves were treated favorably and respectfully by the white master? Of course not, this wouldn't portray the message. That being, that slavery was a terrible and awful thing.

That said, people often overlook the many 'advantageous' aspects to slavery for African-American people. I think it was Walter E. Williams who once said, American blacks should be grateful for slavery, because it brought their ancestors to this great nation, where they have been able to realize a much better life than would have ever befallen them in Africa. Of course, Williams is black, so he can get away with making such a point.

Then there is the plight of the Native American, many of MY ancestors. They were 'enslaved' by the Government! Rounded up and summarily marched to their death or Oklahoma, whichever came first. Forced to live in what amounted to concentration camps, while the white men exploited their tribal lands. Only recently, has any recognition been given to the wrongness of this, and they will NEVER be able to right the injustice.

As I said in another thread, my family genealogy is comprised of various oddball things, I am a mutt. But an interesting part of my family heritage is learned from my grandmother. She was a widow woman with 7 children, heading into the Great Depression. To earn money for food and clothing, she worked in cotton fields owned by a black sharecropper, who was the son of a former slave, and who had inherited the 40 acre farm and mule. Yep... my granny was one of his cotton pickers! Working the fields with a baby on her hip, and the oldest of her sons, dragging that cotton sack along behind her. It was a fucking rough life. But if it hadn't been for that black man, her and her children would have starved to death and I wouldn't be here today.

While slaves did have a rough life, they never had to worry about a roof over their head or food to eat. As was pointed out, many stayed on their plantations after emancipation, because they had a pretty good deal there, considering the alternatives. Some trekked off up North to find a new life, only to be shot dead in racial riots from mobs of angry white folks who didn't want them stealing their jobs.

But wait... I thought all those abhorrent racists were Southerners?

 

[JoeBlam]

I'm as bad a badass as you'll ever run across, Sally. .

Sad old fool in his kitty-cat stance playing make-pretend eye gouge.

Ah here's my pet flea.

 

[Boss]

Many Americans never thought abortion was fine and acceptable. .

Many Americans never thought slavery was fine and acceptable.

That is the point I was addressing.

More Americans thought it might be unacceptable, but it was necessary. Our morality sometimes gives way to our pragmatism, in how our perceptions are formed. You can see how people believe that abortion is not immoral because it is individual choice... but since when does an individual's choice trump what is morally right or wrong? We ALLOW it, even though we realize it is immoral, for the sake of appeasing a claimed right of choice.

Slavery is very similar in terms of a societal issue, but for different reasons. In 1860, the #1 export crop, and thing the government earned the most in revenues from, was COTTON! They called it King Cotton for a reason. Northern textile tycoons became very wealthy with it, as did exporters and shipping magnets, and the US GOVERNMENT! Our entire economic system was dependent on Cotton, so anything dealing with the production of Cotton, was very sensitive.

As a society, we didn't like slavery, we had made what, at the time, was great strides in moderating our views on slavery. The US had outlawed slave trading, you couldn't travel down to Charleston and pick out slaves from the ships arriving from Africa anymore, that had stopped happening entirely. Technology was coming along, which would have eventually rendered slave labor obsolete, so the days of slavery were numbered. Still, in 1860, much of the cotton production was dependent on slave labor... slaves that had been legally purchased and deemed property by the SCOTUS. It wasn't the plantation owner's fault, he didn't make the rules, he simply made an investment in property to do the labor in his fields, in good faith. Why do you think the Federal government should have the right to turn around and tell him this is not legal and he has no rights to his property?

What if, tomorrow, the Federal government said: We can no longer tolerate pollution from internal combustion, so we are outlawing the internal combustion engine and demanding that everyone turn over their vehicles to the government to be destroyed? From a purely 'moral' standpoint, they can justify this... but does it make this constitutionally right? People say... but that's no fair, slaves were humans! But they weren't 'humans' in 1860, according to the SCOTUS, they were 'property.' The argument was often made, they were NOT humans, they were a sub-human species which were similar to humans. This is shocking and abhorrent to hear today, but that was the prevailing thought in 1860. Save for a few religious leaders who considered them part of humanity and God's creatures, who founded the abolitionist movement.

 

[birddog]

-------

I lived in Enterprise, Ala for a couple of months in Jan 1968, after my wife and I got married. We were in the Army. Anyway, they have a statue to the boll weevil. I guess it ruined their cotton crops, so they got richer with peanuts. Best regards R C Christian and everyone.

 

[rdean]

I know why I believe it was, but I would like to compare notes.

Why was the slavery of the pre-Civil War Southern US immoral?

A question conservatives have been asking since before the Civil War.

OK, then show me a publicly recognized conservative who holds office that has raised this question even once since 2000.

Republican state rep Jon Hubbarb calls slavery a 'blessing' as Charlie Fuqua advocates deporting all Muslims

 

[rdean]

Many Americans never thought abortion was fine and acceptable. .

Many Americans never thought slavery was fine and acceptable.

Those Americans were called "Northerners".

 

[rdean]

I thought this article about CPAC was very revealing. Some of the most "choice" comments:

After the presenter, K. Carl Smith of Frederick Douglass Republicans, answered by referencing a letter by Frederick Douglass forgiving his former master, the audience member said “For what? For feeding him and housing him?” Several people in the audience cheered and applauded Terry’s outburst.

(I wonder if it's the same people who cheered "let him die" and "education is for snobs"?)

When asked by ThinkProgress if he’d accept a society where African-Americans were permanently subservient to whites, he said “I’d be fine with that.” He also claimed that African-Americans “should be allowed to vote in Africa,” and that “all the Tea Parties” were concerned with the same racial problems that he was.
At one point, a woman challenged him on the Republican Party’s roots, to which Terry responded, “I didn’t know the legacy of the Republican Party included women correcting men in public.”

CPAC Participant Defends Slavery At Minority Outreach Panel: It Gave 'Food And Shelter' To Blacks

 

[rdean]

The reason so many right wingers approve of slavery is because even Jesus seemed to approve in the New Testament.

(Ephesians 6:5 NLT) Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

(1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT) Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.


(Luke 12:47-48 NLT) The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."

 

[Unkotare]

I'm as bad a badass as you'll ever run across, Sally. .

Sad old fool in his kitty-cat stance playing make-pretend eye gouge.

Ah here's my pet flea.

You got those racing stripes painted on your walker yet, tough guy?