Zone1 Why was Jesus crucified?

[seaofnails]

So very true

The rejection of Jesus being the Messiah is rejected by many Hebrew people because Jesus did not fulfill and complete the role of the Messiah when he was here on earth 2000 years ago.

meaning - he did not physically defend the nation of Israel and save the Jewish nation from their enemies as prophesied and described in the Old Testament prophecy

Jesus did not come to earth and perform the type of miracles in the manner of physically defending Israel from Rome and Greece - Jesus do not display a physical strength of power to free the Jewish people from their oppressors, Jesus did not seat or take the throne in the capacity of being crowned as accepted King of Israel - he did not sit literally in a role and position to be seated upon the throne of David and bring peace and equity and strength to the Israeli kingdom .


what many people do not realize is that the New Testament explains that the Messiah / Jesus - he was not sent to fully fulfill the role of the Messiah,

in the New Testament Prophecy and teaching this role of the Messiah is all to be fulfilled and completed and done in the future . . . . this, is not why Jesus, the Son Of God was born - this was not his mission and message or purpose.

The New Testament explains that all of this is to be fulfilled in the Future.

The role and purpose of Jesus was to also bring the plan of salvation to the Gentiles - and to call Jews to turn to God and follow him with their hearts instead of centering everything around Tradition and in the future Jesus would fulfill and complete the Old Testament prophecy and will come to earth as the Messiah strictly for the purpose of literally defending Israel from her enemies and he will then sit on the throne as King of the earth.

Joh 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Anointing

Joh 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called the Anointing: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

this is the message of the New Testament - this role and completed prophecy of the Messiah is all to be fulfilled and completed and done in the future .

 

[Clyde 154]

I'm a biblical Historian with access to other Biblical era scholars and perhaps you don't realize, the NT you see today is not like the older copies, as well as your lack of access to off shoot cults like the offspring of surviving original followers of John the Baptist whom One of the characters used for the Jesus myth had originally followed before having him killed and stealing some of his flock.
Having access to Apochrypha, codecs, predated ancient tablets, Scroll interpretations from non biased Professors, and archeological research is a huge difference then regurgitation of religious propaganda from known liars

Again..........facts of history delcare that Jesus was not mythical......how? All the historically documented prophecies that have been fulfilled. Myths are not documented by history actual. What? Its 1/3 of the world's population that denies the truth..........Christ's church does not have 1/3 of the world's population professing to the faith of Christianity? Its the 90+% of the world's population that beleives in God in one fashion or another that remains stupid ...........not the minority of 7% that propagate atheism or agnostic propaganda?
The KEY phrase to your bigoted Narcissistic retort? Its "I" that don't realize.....because you are way smater than those around you. The Blind Guide attempting to redefine history actual. Could you be just a little bit more condescending......I am not well versed in subtlety. Fact: the original Hebrew tongue was lost to history for almost 2300 years, and it did not become "in vogue" again until just recently in history. What? Has God not been moving for those 2000 years lost to history?


Today.......its (Original Hebrew Tongue) studied, not to enlighten men as to the truth found in scripture, but under the pretension that only Hebrew Scholars can know the truth being delivered by the Holy Scriptures. The attempt to revive that dead tongue is due to men's pride, as the scriptures have never been broken, just as promised by the God of Creation (John 10:35)

Its you that can't comprehend the documented fact that God invoked a new covenant/contract with men.........the righteous Laws of God are all carried forward into the N.T. covenant. All of the 10 commandments save the commandment to observe the Sabbath which was reserved for Biblical Israel only. (Deut. 4, 5) The Law is no longer to be obeyed in a literal fashion because its written on stone, its obeyed because its written on the heart of those who enter into that Covenant with the God of Creation.......the Kingdom of God is an invisible kingdom, residing in the heart of God's chosen people (Luke 17:20-21) which mirror's Jeremiah's prophecy concerning the New Covenant for the Jews (Jer. 31:31-3) THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS A SPIRITUAL KINGDOM, not a literal kingdom ruled by the physical letter of the law.



Yeah........do you need to apply for Obama Care? That dislocated shoulder giving you trouble......every time you pat yourself on the back? All you did is confirm the bigotry displayed by those who deny that the Septuagint translation is just as reliable as the original Hebrew script.

The translation came about due to 72 Hebrew Scholars from 12 different tribes. Its historically documented that by the time of the 1st century AD.....the majority of the world communicated in the Universal tongue of the day..........The Greek Language. Fact: There is no truth lost in translation as long as the original context that carries the subject matter of the Book, Chapter or Book being studied is maintained. You attempt to choke on ONE WORD that is self defined by the entire content of the passage, in pretension that the Greek word does not completely define the use of that one word when the truth from the entire subject that is being addressed very clear and comprehensible in the Greek Tongue.

"Choke on a gnat while attempting to swallow a camel........." -- Matt. 24:23 Again........"They worship Me in vain.......teaching for doctrine, the commandments of men." -- Matthew 15:9

 

[HaShev]

The KEY phrase to your bigoted Narcissistic retort? Its "I" that don't realize.....because you are way smater than those around you. The Blind Guide attempting to redefine history actual. Could you be just a little bit more condescending......I am not well versed in subtlety.

Its you that can't comprehend the documented fact that God invoked a new covenant/contract with men.........the righteous Laws of God are all carried forward into the N.T. covenant. All of the 10 commandments save the commandment to observe the Sabbath which was reserved for Biblical Israel only. (Deut. 4, 5) The Law is no longer to be obeyed in a literal fashion because its written on stone, its obeyed because its written on the heart of those who enter into that Covenant with the God of Creation.......the Kingdom of God is an invisible kingdom, residing in the heart of God's chosen people (Luke 17:20-21) which mirror's Jeremiah's prophecy concerning the New Covenant for the Jews (Jer. 31:31-3) THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS A SPIRITUAL KINGDOM, not a literal kingdom ruled by the physical letter of the law.



Yeah........do you need to apply for Obama Care? That dislocated shoulder giving you trouble......every time you pat yourself on the back? All you did is confirm the bigotry displayed by those who deny that the Septuagint translation is just as reliable as the original Hebrew script.

The translation came about due to 72 Hebrew Scholars from 12 different tribes. Its historically documented that by the time of the 1st century AD.....the majority of the world communicated in the Universal tongue of the day..........The Greek Language. Fact: There is no truth lost in translation as long as the original context that carries the subject matter of the Book, Chapter or Book being studied is maintained. You attempt to choke on ONE WORD that is self defined by the entire content of the passage, in pretension that the Greek word does not completely define the use of that one word when the truth from the entire subject that is being addressed very clear and comprehensible in the Greek Tongue.

"Choke on a gnat while attempting to swallow a camel........." -- Matt. 24:23 Again........"They worship Me in vain.......teaching for doctrine, the commandments of men." -- Matthew 15:9

Having access to info you don't have is like the difference between a loyal CNN MSNBC viewer not knowing what's really taking place in the full spectrum of the political and social scope of things and someone who has many sources who gets info the CNN viewer does not. That's not pompous narcissism, that's called fact of common sense, that there are those who control what you know for sake of keeping you $upporters of their team.

 

[shimon]

Again..........facts of history delcare that Jesus was not mythical......how? All the historically documented prophecies that have been fulfilled. Myths are not documented by history actual. What? Its 1/3 of the world's population that denies the truth..........Christ's church does not have 1/3 of the world's population professing to the faith of Christianity? Its the 90+% of the world's population that beleives in God in one fashion or another that remains stupid ...........not the minority of 7% that propagate atheism or agnostic propaganda?

I
You claimed earlier that Christian’s made up 1/3 of the worlds population and because I pointed out that 1/3 of the stars in heaven followed Satan, the devil or Lucifer I see you backtracked and tried to cover that fact up… However you cannot cover up the fact that Jesus according to the New Testament fell to the pit came back with the keys to hell only Satan, the devil or Lucifer the fallen angel would be able to do that .. You can come up with all kinds of excuses and fancy stories and ludicrous themes to try to cover that up but you cant cover up that fact… Most people who can think for themselves would have alarm bells going off about that unless they are hopelessly indoctrinated or are just plain blind and without being able to think for themselves….

 

[seaofnails]

..
Personally....... I do believe that there were perhaps something in Greek such as partial chapters, verses and writings that had been translated from Hebrew to Greek before the incarnation of the Spirit Of The Holy,


however even the scholarly historical experts are unable to provide even 1 % of manuscripts that make up a BC Greek Septuagint.

the BC Greek Septuagint is nothing but Old Testament fragments, shreds and pieces that have been found are not even enough to show for even 1 % of the first four books of the Old Testament.

the truth that Christians can see is that - The Septuagint was reconstructed sometime after the 16 th century

A part of the Greek old testament was reconstructed called the "Constantinople Pentateuch " reconstructed - in Constantinople in 1547 - this was Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

Before this there was no completed Greek Translation of the O .T. - defined as the Septuagint

And then A COMPLETED translation of the Old Testaments was RECONSTRUCTED by a man named Neofytos Vamvas in 1850. Vamvas was dean and a professor of the University of Athens.

So in reality – the SEPTUAGINT was not FULLY RECONSTRUCTED until 1850.


And the the BC Greek Old Testament fragments, shreds and pieces that have been found today are not even enough to show for even 1 % of the first four books of the Old Testament. This reconstruction was not based upon ancient fragments, shreds and pieces from before Jesus Christ


But the Greek Septuagint was reconstructed from a concerted and organized method of man working to translate the Old Testament into Greek beginning at 300 years after the Lord Jesus Christ - and then reflecting these translations and projecting and imagining and pretending that they would be what the BC Septuagint would have been -

Can we truly see evidence to show what was a B.C. Greek Septuagint other than rumors and acclimations of man

all without the evidence of God preserving a B.C. Greek Septuagint

there are not even enough fragments and flakes found to provide even 1 % of manuscripts texts that make up a complete BC Greek Septuagint.

 

[irosie91]

..
Personally....... I do believe that there were perhaps something in Greek such as partial chapters, verses and writings that had been translated from Hebrew to Greek before the incarnation of the Spirit Of The Holy,


however even the scholarly historical experts are unable to provide even 1 % of manuscripts that make up a BC Greek Septuagint.

the BC Greek Septuagint is nothing but Old Testament fragments, shreds and pieces that have been found are not even enough to show for even 1 % of the first four books of the Old Testament.

the truth that Christians can see is that - The Septuagint was reconstructed sometime after the 16 th century

A part of the Greek old testament was reconstructed called the "Constantinople Pentateuch " reconstructed - in Constantinople in 1547 - this was Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

Before this there was no completed Greek Translation of the O .T. - defined as the Septuagint

And then A COMPLETED translation of the Old Testaments was RECONSTRUCTED by a man named Neofytos Vamvas in 1850. Vamvas was dean and a professor of the University of Athens.

So in reality – the SEPTUAGINT was not FULLY RECONSTRUCTED until 1850.


And the the BC Greek Old Testament fragments, shreds and pieces that have been found today are not even enough to show for even 1 % of the first four books of the Old Testament. This reconstruction was not based upon ancient fragments, shreds and pieces from before Jesus Christ


But the Greek Septuagint was reconstructed from a concerted and organized method of man working to translate the Old Testament into Greek beginning at 300 years after the Lord Jesus Christ - and then reflecting these translations and projecting and imagining and pretending that they would be what the BC Septuagint would have been -

Can we truly see evidence to show what was a B.C. Greek Septuagint other than rumors and acclimations of man

all without the evidence of God preserving a B.C. Greek Septuagint

there are not even enough fragments and flakes found to provide even 1 % of manuscripts texts that make up a complete BC Greek Septuagint.

yeah? so? who is it that you imagine depends on the SEPTUAGINT for anything?

 

[Hector12]

..
Personally....... I do believe that there were perhaps something in Greek such as partial chapters, verses and writings that had been translated from Hebrew to Greek before the incarnation of the Spirit Of The Holy,


however even the scholarly historical experts are unable to provide even 1 % of manuscripts that make up a BC Greek Septuagint.

the BC Greek Septuagint is nothing but Old Testament fragments, shreds and pieces that have been found are not even enough to show for even 1 % of the first four books of the Old Testament.

the truth that Christians can see is that - The Septuagint was reconstructed sometime after the 16 th century

A part of the Greek old testament was reconstructed called the "Constantinople Pentateuch " reconstructed - in Constantinople in 1547 - this was Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

Before this there was no completed Greek Translation of the O .T. - defined as the Septuagint

And then A COMPLETED translation of the Old Testaments was RECONSTRUCTED by a man named Neofytos Vamvas in 1850. Vamvas was dean and a professor of the University of Athens.

So in reality – the SEPTUAGINT was not FULLY RECONSTRUCTED until 1850.


And the the BC Greek Old Testament fragments, shreds and pieces that have been found today are not even enough to show for even 1 % of the first four books of the Old Testament. This reconstruction was not based upon ancient fragments, shreds and pieces from before Jesus Christ


But the Greek Septuagint was reconstructed from a concerted and organized method of man working to translate the Old Testament into Greek beginning at 300 years after the Lord Jesus Christ - and then reflecting these translations and projecting and imagining and pretending that they would be what the BC Septuagint would have been -

Can we truly see evidence to show what was a B.C. Greek Septuagint other than rumors and acclimations of man

all without the evidence of God preserving a B.C. Greek Septuagint

there are not even enough fragments and flakes found to provide even 1 % of manuscripts texts that make up a complete BC Greek Septuagint.

the SEPTUAGINT includes the translation of the entire Hebrew Bible, and additional books. It was available in its present form two centuries before the time of Christ.

 

[irosie91]

the SEPTUAGINT includes the translation of the entire Hebrew Bible, and additional books. It was available in its present form two centuries before the time of Christ.

sheeesh---that's what I thought-----and a copy was even stored in the big Library of Alexandria-----but there seems to be all sort of "other" information on this board-----like
MOST JEWS USED THE SEPTUAGINT rather than the hebrew writings ??? but the time
Jesus was born ???? !!

 

[seaofnails]

but are not all of the claims of an existent - Greek Septuagint, simply claims and rumors about this book existing before Christ

I have spent 15 years diligently studying and open minded to find proof of a Greek Septuagint existing before Yahashua

IF the Greek Septuagint existed in the big Library of Alexandria before in 642 Ad when the Muslim invaders destroyed and burned all of the books - why for 600 years did no one make copies of the Greek Septuagint

all we have is a claim such as to say " it is possible a Greek Septuagint existed in the big Library of Alexandria because of the abundance of research material available at the library. "

this is simply a rumor, claim and theory,. of all of the available fragments, flakes and tattered crumbled shards of crumbling pieces of manuscript found today dating back before Yahashua -- there are not even enough of these fragments and flakes that have been found to provide even 1 % of manuscripts texts that make up a complete BC Greek Septuagint.

how is that evidence, I would like to know that this Greek Septuagint exists but less that 1 % of all manuscripts texts existing before Yahashua - is not proof that there was a completed Greek Old Testament,

it just proves that some individuals were translating portions of the Old Testament verses into Greek and their translations were abandoned, discarded, lost and had crumbled and vanished into tiny fragments and flakes and that no - one had distributed or made copies -

showing that not a single one piece of evidence shows that even a single page of the Greek Septuagint had been distributed anywhere.

 

[irosie91]

but are not all of the claims of an existent - Greek Septuagint, simply claims and rumors about this book existing before Christ

I have spent 15 years diligently studying and open minded to find proof of a Greek Septuagint existing before Yahashua

IF the Greek Septuagint existed in the big Library of Alexandria before in 642 Ad when the Muslim invaders destroyed and burned all of the books - why for 600 years did no one make copies of the Greek Septuagint

all we have is a claim such as to say " it is possible a Greek Septuagint existed in the big Library of Alexandria because of the abundance of research material available at the library. "

this is simply a rumor, claim and theory,. of all of the available fragments, flakes and tattered crumbled shards of crumbling pieces of manuscript found today dating back before Yahashua -- there are not even enough of these fragments and flakes that have been found to provide even 1 % of manuscripts texts that make up a complete BC Greek Septuagint.

how is that evidence, I would like to know that this Greek Septuagint exists but less that 1 % of all manuscripts texts existing before Yahashua - is not proof that there was a completed Greek Old Testament,

it just proves that some individuals were translating portions of the Old Testament verses into Greek and their translations were abandoned, discarded, lost and had crumbled and vanished into tiny fragments and flakes and that no - one had distributed or made copies -

showing that not a single one piece of evidence shows that even a single page of the Greek Septuagint had been distributed anywhere.

there is even less evidence that the "entity" JESUS existed at all

 

[seaofnails]

if that is the case then I am willing to accept this.

the truth is what I love and will always follow and admit.

the truth is there are no manuscripts of the Hebrew Old Testament in existence today that date before 1000 Ad.
all Hebrew manuscripts before 1000 Ad have been completely destroyed,.

I accept all of these truths, I personally - still believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in the Old and New Testament - that's just what I believe, personally.

but this is my belief - and there is a difference here - between proven facts and evidence and the facts of what is the poof of what Greek and Hebrew manuscript say in their originality

and the pure fact that there are not even enough of these Septuagint fragments and flakes that have been found to provide even 1 % of manuscripts texts that make up a complete BC Greek Septuagint.

it is a fact that not a single one piece of evidence shows that even a single page of the Greek Septuagint had been completed nor been distributed anywhere, before Christ.

Today's Septuagint is a re - construction of what is thought or believed the Septuagint should have been based upon Greek Old Testament manuscripts found to have been made and written hundreds of years after Christ - - and these were a work in progress,

they were a project to translate the O.t. into Greek - not to take Pre - Christ manuscripts and directly translate these completed O.T. Greek texts or even to make copies of anything completed in Greek before Christ

 

[Frankenstein]

This is in response to the thread about why Jews reject Jesus as Messiah

Answer this question and you get your answer to the other thread.

After all, the rejection of Jesus by the Jewish leaders of the time of Jesus is why he was rejected by Jews today.

For the same reason the democrats would do it today, he was messiah, however he stood in the way of their amassed power.

 

[Frankenstein]

what "jewish leaders" rejected Jesus during his lifetime?

Pharisee's Sadducee's

 

[seaofnails]

I am thankful for people like you, yourself, whom are honest, you are more important to truth than others realize.

 

[Hector12]

the truth is there are no manuscripts of the Hebrew Old Testament in existence today that date before 1000 Ad.
all Hebrew manuscripts before 1000 Ad have been completely destroyed,.

Have you not heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls?

 

[there4eyeM]

Look at society today. Look at what happens to those it idolizes. They can do no wrong. Until they do.

 

[irosie91]

Pharisee's Sadducee's

Frank---you are the very first to answer this question which I have posted
on this board for YEARS. What evidence to you have other than the NT -
that IN PARTICULAR---the SADDUCEES and the PHARISEES rejected Jesus.
Are you aware of the fact that the Pharisees and the Sadducees rejected
EACH OTHER?

 

[Frankenstein]

Frank---you are the very first to answer this question which I have posted
on this board for YEARS. What evidence to you have other than the NT -
that IN PARTICULAR---the SADDUCEES and the PHARISEES rejected Jesus.
Are you aware of the fact that the Pharisees and the Sadducees rejected
EACH OTHER?

The Bible is a Historical document, and they crucified him for saying he was the messiah, son of God

 

[irosie91]

The Bible is a Historical document, and they crucified him for saying he was the messiah, son of God

you seem to be a conscientious kind of poster----but you did not even
come close to answering my simple, straightforward question. As to your
answer----which is nonresponsive to my question----I disagree. I read the NT
as a child---since I grew up in a christian town in which little old ladies
handed out copies of the NT----I read any book that fell into my hands.
I did not read in the NT that Jesus announced "I AM THE MESSIAH,
SON OF GOD" For review---I asked what is your evidence that the
Pharisees and Sadducees rejected Jesus? Do you have an impression
as to who the Pharisees and Sadducees were?

 

[Clyde 154]

I
You claimed earlier that Christian’s made up 1/3 of the worlds population and because I pointed out that 1/3 of the stars in heaven followed Satan, the devil or Lucifer I see you backtracked and tried to cover that fact up… However you cannot cover up the fact that Jesus according to the New Testament fell to the pit came back with the keys to hell only Satan, the devil or Lucifer the fallen angel would be able to do that .. You can come up with all kinds of excuses and fancy stories and ludicrous themes to try to cover that up but you cant cover up that fact… Most people who can think for themselves would have alarm bells going off about that unless they are hopelessly indoctrinated or are just plain blind and without being able to think for themselves….

No, I simply ignored your disconnect to reason and logic. The religion of Christianity being populated by 1/3 of the world's population has nothing to do with the stars in heaven, as if it that is to limit the number of Christians in comparison to the number of stars. The point being made in scripture is the fact that Christianity continues to grow with each new member baptized into the faith......and that addition will continue until the last day. Christianity is not limited by the number of stars. Can you not comprehend the difference between literalism in the scriptures and a parable/analogy/metaphor? The scriptures even self define the promise to Abraham as a METAPHOR.......when the term..........LIKE the STARS.

LIKE: Resembling..................NOT LITERAL