Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

[CryingKoala]

How about the fact that his even crazier sons will never rule Iraq?

Not really an argument for keeping Saddam. He had to die sometime, letting his sons take over.

It was far better that we put all three of them in the ground.

And why is that?

There are far worse dictators around the world.

Wanna start giving them dirt naps too?

Wherever it is feasable, Sure!

Half of our problems come when we prefer to mollycoddle dictators rather than do the right thing and support democracy abroad.

 

[saveliberty]

Does anyone really want to make an argument that Saddam deserved to continue to rule Iraq?

Maybe the people of Iraq should have answered that question?

They couldn't under saddam. Iraqi people I have worked with have told me personal stories about what that meant in practical terms that would turn your hair white.

Unless you subscribe to the US as world police, it was still the Iraqis place to unseat him. You act as if no civilians have died under the current scenario.

 

[Wicked Jester]

If you are so fucking knowledgeable answer the goddamned questions.

.

You got it backwards, shitforbrains. If you are so fucking ignorant STFU until you have some fucking idea what the fuck you are talking about.

Let me re-state the facts.

The administration ADMITTED that it was using CIA agents as UN inspectors. Links were provided.

Congressional Investigators , led by Mr Pelletier, found no evidence that Kurds have been gassed.

So what are you relying upon for your assertions?!?!?!?!?!?!?

.

Yep, you are that ignorant.

Ron Paul?..........I guess we shouldn't be surprised of your ignorance.

After all, he attracts the loons like flies to shit.

 

[Unkotare]

The administration ADMITTED that it was using CIA agents as UN inspectors. Links were provided.

.

Even were that true it would not change the fact that saddam was in violation of the terms of the end of the first Gulf War in obstructing inspectors. You are grasping for anything to use in apology of a horrible, bloody regime. Your politics are poorly thought out and yet you are still willing to let them lead you into a bed where you fuck the corpse of a brutal dicatator (or maybe the other way around). Really covering yourself in glory there, champ.

 

[Contumacious]

I'll spare you the photographic evidence that is easily found with the simplest search.

A War Crime Or an Act of War?
By Stephen C. Pelletiere
Published: January 31, 2003

Si

It was no surprise that President Bush, lacking smoking-gun evidence of Iraq's weapons programs, used his State of the Union address to re-emphasize the moral case for an invasion: ''The dictator who is assembling the world's most dangerous weapons has already used them on whole villages, leaving thousands of his own citizens dead, blind or disfigured.''

The accusation that Iraq has used chemical weapons against its citizens is a familiar part of the debate. The piece of hard evidence most frequently brought up concerns the gassing of Iraqi Kurds at the town of Halabja in March 1988, near the end of the eight-year Iran-Iraq war. President Bush himself has cited Iraq's ''gassing its own people,'' specifically at Halabja, as a reason to topple Saddam Hussein.

But the truth is, all we know for certain is that Kurds were bombarded with poison gas that day at Halabja. We cannot say with any certainty that Iraqi chemical weapons killed the Kurds. This is not the only distortion in the Halabja story.

.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So, WWII was a failure?

No. Post WWII policy has been a failure. We should be out of Europe and Japan, now.

Are you literally incapable of seeing beyond the end of your own nose?

Why are we in Europe and Japan now?

 

[NYcarbineer]

yo mean less than 1 trillion dont you?
CBO: Eight Years Of Iraq War Cost Less Than Stimulus Act | FoxNews.com

Do those figures take into account the following:

1. long term care of wounded
2. replacement cost of men and materials lost in the war
3. cost of ongoing, future presence in Iraq
4. interest on debt accumulated paying for war
5. premium on price of oil that occurred throughout the war and was attributed to the war


1) The on caring cost for the wounded has a cost that the money the UAW got would last there lifetimes many times over

2) You cannot replace the person

3) What cost ongoing in Iraq? are you trying to say it cost more to have a soldier in the green zone in Iraq than it does along the fence in Cuba?

4) Is the same the interest is on the failed stimulus, the failed auto bailout,

5) Part of the reason we invaded Iraq was to stabilize oil production. they where selling oil on the black market or did you forget they had an embargo against them thru the UN all those years?
Five Years In - Iraq’s Insurgency Runs on Stolen Oil Profits - Series - NYTimes.com

"Disturbing evidence to date suggests that U.N. officials may have been complicit, perhaps maliciously so, in cheating the Iraqi people out of billions of dollars in badly needed food and medical supplies," editorialized the Chicago Tribune (5/9/04). The paper did not neglect to draw the appropriate political conclusion: The new Iraqi government "will carry [a] U.N. seal of approval" that "may not be worth much."

At the New York Times, conservative columnist William Safire has carried the torch for the story, penning at least seven columns this year mentioning the so-called oil-for-food scandal—or, as he calls it (5/24/04), "the U.N.'s complicity in the $5 billion oil-for-food kickback ripoff."
A Timely Scandal

So was your answer yes or no?

 

[Contumacious]

You got it backwards, shitforbrains. If you are so fucking ignorant STFU until you have some fucking idea what the fuck you are talking about.

Let me re-state the facts.

The administration ADMITTED that it was using CIA agents as UN inspectors. Links were provided.

Congressional Investigators , led by Mr Pelletier, found no evidence that Kurds have been gassed.

So what are you relying upon for your assertions?!?!?!?!?!?!?

.

Yep, you are that ignorant.

Ron Paul?..........I guess we shouldn't be surprised of your ignorance.

After all, he attracts the loons like flies to shit.

Lot's of stupid accusations but no facts. Typical Republican warmonger fucktard.

.

 

[Unkotare]

it was still the Iraqis place to unseat him. .

You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[IndependntLogic]

1) REMOVE SADDAM
DONE
2) STABILIZE COUNTRY
DONE
3) HAVE A REPUBLIC BORN OF THESE EVENTS
DONE

Am missing something here?

Sure.
1) I resent having POTUS, VPOTUS, SecDef lies through their teeth in order to get approval. There was never was any belief by any of them that Saddam had WMDs.
2) I also laugh at those who claim this BS was about the "UN". The same UN who insisted we not go in? Oh yeah, those folks are all ardent supporters of the UN. Yeah okay.
3) I find it ironic and laughable that all the whackjobs who whine about Obama doing things which are "UnConstitutional" act as if this was in accordance - same goes for people who quote Jefferson when it's convenient but are quick to forget his words in regards to us policing or spreading democracy directly.
4) Removing Saddam was not our job. But okay, I'm sure you show the same support for Obama in Libya? No? Didn't think so. You may now claim there's a difference.
5) The puppet government we put in place? That grateful government who told us to get TF out while McCain was campaigning? The one that refused to spend a PENNY of the billions we handed them, while laughing at us as we rebuilt their country at taxpayer expense? The "Stable government" that banned 500 candidates from even being able to run in their last election? The "stable government" that has been found to be the single most corrupt government in the world? The government that will be nothing but the same old theocracy with nothing different within a decade?
But hey, at least theyshowed their gratitude by giving their first oil contracts to..... our greatest economic rival - China.
Are you missing something? History lessons maybe. That and say, all the facts that aren't fed to you by the American Right Wing propaganda machine...

 

[Contumacious]

Did your link say no victims?

The next morning Iraqi bombers appeared out of a clear blue sky. The people of Halabja were used to the successive attacks and counter-attacks of the Iraq-Iran war that had ravaged the region since September 1980. They thought they were in for the usual reprisal raid.e

Iranians were involved in a war against Iraq, so they are not impartial.

.

Are you really that ignorant?

Are you that fucking naive?

.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Oh, and when you're calculating the cost of the Iraq war, don't forget,

it started in 1991.

your joking right?
well its good thing we put an end to it huh

The war started in 1991, for no good reason we invaded Iraq then; it was temporarily halted by a ceasefire, then resumed, for no good reason, in 2003.

So, yes the cost of the Iraq war starts in 1991.

That should include btw the cost to us of 9/11, since 9/11 was a consequence of our unnecessary meddling in Middle East affairs that put troops in Saudi Arabia.

 

[Unkotare]

No. Post WWII policy has been a failure. We should be out of Europe and Japan, now.

Are you literally incapable of seeing beyond the end of your own nose?

Why are we in Europe and Japan now?

Ok, seriously, is this a put-on? Could you really be this stupid, this ignorant of relatively recent history, of current international conditions? It is really starting to look as if you are not worth the time. You need to have at least a baseline of knowledge and understanding to conduct any reasonable discussion.

In other words, if you cannot answer the above question yourself, you are too fucking ignorant and/or obstinantly driven by agenda to bother with.

What's it gonna be, kid?

 

[Contumacious]

Oh, and when you're calculating the cost of the Iraq war, don't forget,

it started in 1991.

your joking right?
well its good thing we put an end to it huh

The war started in 1991, for no good reason we invaded Iraq then; it was temporarily halted by a ceasefire, then resumed, for no good reason, in 2003.

So, yes the cost of the Iraq war starts in 1991.

That should include btw the cost to us of 9/11, since 9/11 was a consequence of our unnecessary meddling in Middle East affairs that put troops in Saudi Arabia.

That is true from a Constitutional (1787) standpoint.

But the dumb asses in DC believe that bending backwards for Israel is a good reason.

.

 

[NYcarbineer]

No. Post WWII policy has been a failure. We should be out of Europe and Japan, now.

So you are openly saying that the Marshall plan failed?

I am openly saying that there is no vital national interest in the US having troops in Europe and Japan,

any more than there is no European or Japanese vital interest in having troops in the US.

It's nothing more than a make-work project to pay off the defense lobby.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Are you literally incapable of seeing beyond the end of your own nose?

Why are we in Europe and Japan now?

Ok, seriously, is this a put-on? Could you really be this stupid, this ignorant of relatively recent history, of current international conditions? It is really starting to look as if you are not worth the time. You need to have at least a baseline of knowledge and understanding to conduct any reasonable discussion.

In other words, if you cannot answer the above question yourself, you are too fucking ignorant and/or obstinantly driven by agenda to bother with.

What's it gonna be, kid?

So you can't answer the question. I didn't think you could.

 

[Unkotare]

The war started in 1991, for no good reason we invaded Iraq then.

You really don't remember the causes of the first Gulf War? Really? How old are you?

 

[Contumacious]

Are you literally incapable of seeing beyond the end of your own nose?

Why are we in Europe and Japan now?

Ok, seriously, is this a put-on? Could you really be this stupid, this ignorant of relatively recent history, of current international conditions? It is really starting to look as if you are not worth the time. You need to have at least a baseline of knowledge and understanding to conduct any reasonable discussion.

In other words, if you cannot answer the above question yourself, you are too fucking ignorant and/or obstinantly driven by agenda to bother with.

What's it gonna be, kid?

So , YOU can not explain the reason for our involvement but want to make look like the poster is the one who is ignorant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

 

[Unkotare]

Why are we in Europe and Japan now?

Ok, seriously, is this a put-on? Could you really be this stupid, this ignorant of relatively recent history, of current international conditions? It is really starting to look as if you are not worth the time. You need to have at least a baseline of knowledge and understanding to conduct any reasonable discussion.

In other words, if you cannot answer the above question yourself, you are too fucking ignorant and/or obstinantly driven by agenda to bother with.

What's it gonna be, kid?

So you can't answer the question. I didn't think you could.

Alright, that's enough for you. Go play with the other kiddies. You have bothered the adults long enough.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Do those figures take into account the following:

1. long term care of wounded
2. replacement cost of men and materials lost in the war
3. cost of ongoing, future presence in Iraq
4. interest on debt accumulated paying for war
5. premium on price of oil that occurred throughout the war and was attributed to the war


1) The on caring cost for the wounded has a cost that the money the UAW got would last there lifetimes many times over

2) You cannot replace the person

3) What cost ongoing in Iraq? are you trying to say it cost more to have a soldier in the green zone in Iraq than it does along the fence in Cuba?

4) Is the same the interest is on the failed stimulus, the failed auto bailout,

5) Part of the reason we invaded Iraq was to stabilize oil production. they where selling oil on the black market or did you forget they had an embargo against them thru the UN all those years?
Five Years In - Iraq’s Insurgency Runs on Stolen Oil Profits - Series - NYTimes.com

"Disturbing evidence to date suggests that U.N. officials may have been complicit, perhaps maliciously so, in cheating the Iraqi people out of billions of dollars in badly needed food and medical supplies," editorialized the Chicago Tribune (5/9/04). The paper did not neglect to draw the appropriate political conclusion: The new Iraqi government "will carry [a] U.N. seal of approval" that "may not be worth much."

At the New York Times, conservative columnist William Safire has carried the torch for the story, penning at least seven columns this year mentioning the so-called oil-for-food scandal—or, as he calls it (5/24/04), "the U.N.'s complicity in the $5 billion oil-for-food kickback ripoff."
A Timely Scandal

WTF?

Stablize oil production? Got a quote of the President making that claim? I think he admitted to hearing voices from God before he ever made that claim.....

He's admitting that 'blood for oil' was an accurate description, as it is. Oil was the primary reason we needlessly invaded in 1991.