Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

[JakeStarkey]

JRK is posting mere demagoguery.

 

[idb]

Then why is it that many on the left have no respect for me?
that kid has the same feelings about what he is doing in Iraq as I do, or he would not be there
He knew when he joined the marines that he would probably see action in Iraq

I've no idea...maybe because you judge someone's argument on whether it comes from the 'left' or the 'right' rather than on its merits?

Are you saying that everyone joins the army for political reasons?

If you thought we had no business in Iraq, would you join?
in 2007 prior to us being told that by the way there was 500 metric tons of yellow cake over there and the DODs presentation of the WMDs we had found never made it to the National enquirer, much less the main stream medias programming
knowing you have been told Bush lied, people died
knowing that there is going to be a surge
why would you join?
Right?
Left?
who said anything about right and left?
Why is it when we discuss these matters its about left? right?
this is information

So you're saying 'yes', soldiers serve to support their political beliefs.

You were the one who whined about getting no respect from people on 'the left'.

 

[JRK]

I've no idea...maybe because you judge someone's argument on whether it comes from the 'left' or the 'right' rather than on its merits?

Are you saying that everyone joins the army for political reasons?

If you thought we had no business in Iraq, would you join?
in 2007 prior to us being told that by the way there was 500 metric tons of yellow cake over there and the DODs presentation of the WMDs we had found never made it to the National enquirer, much less the main stream medias programming
knowing you have been told Bush lied, people died
knowing that there is going to be a surge
why would you join?
Right?
Left?
who said anything about right and left?
Why is it when we discuss these matters its about left? right?
this is information

So you're saying 'yes', soldiers serve to support their political beliefs.

You were the one who whined about getting no respect from people on 'the left'.

Whined? when did I whine?
Your confused bud
My point is simple
if you do not believe in something, why would go and take part in making it a success?
What say you, I am tired of debating with my-self

 

[kaz]

JRK is posting mere demagoguery.

And you feel he's treading on your territory?

 

[JRK]

JRK is posting mere demagoguery.

And you feel he's treading on your territory?

to start with Jake is on my ignore list, Kaz you quoting him is the only reason I knew what he said
I post factual linked information
If people do not like it they can do there DD and post info that will show mine to be wrong

 

[JakeStarkey]

Kaz and JRK want to insert their opinions as fact, and they are called on it every time. JRK does not understand that his "facts" are not indeed incontrovertible facts that prove his point; actually, quite the reverse.

JRK has every right to run away. Kaz, at least, stays to fight. Congrats for that.

 

[kaz]

Kaz and JRK want to insert their opinions as fact, and they are called on it every time. JRK does not understand that his "facts" are not indeed incontrovertible facts that prove his point; actually, quite the reverse.

JRK has every right to run away. Kaz, at least, stays to fight. Congrats for that.

You're not talking about "facts" though, you're talking about "liberal facts." A liberal fact is any statement, no matter how factually untrue, which supports a liberal argument. A "lie" on the other hand is any statement, no matter how factually true, which counters a liberal argument. Which is the only reason your arguments work. Every statement that supports them is by definition "truth" and any statement that counters them is by definition "lie." Now that you understand liberal logic, go back and read your and other liberal posts and all of a sudden your inane ramblings suddenly make sense. They are in fact irrefutable arguments. By definition. Any statement refuting them is a "lie."

 

[JakeStarkey]

Kaz calls any legitimate disagreement "liberal facts". Nonsense. The fact is Shenseki said we need much more troops or we can't secure the peace: fact. The fact is that WMDs as portrayed by the bushies were not found: fact. The fact is that the Iraqi war helped to bust the economy: fact. The fact is that the USA is not any more safer today than in 2003: fact. The fact is that Iran and Iraq keep cozying up to us: fact.

Fact: JRK is a demagogue, and Kaz can't accept facts.

 

[kaz]

Kaz calls any legitimate disagreement "liberal facts". Nonsense. The fact is Shenseki said we need much more troops or we can't secure the peace: fact. The fact is that WMDs as portrayed by the bushies were not found: fact. The fact is that the Iraqi war helped to bust the economy: fact. The fact is that the USA is not any more safer today than in 2003: fact. The fact is that Iran and Iraq keep cozying up to us: fact.

Fact: JRK is a demagogue, and Kaz can't accept facts.

I oppose the war in opposition to both parties. You oppose the war in a way that is self serving to one as a tool to harm the other. Two parties, same policies. The facts don't support that you grasp the facts and I don't.

 

[JRK]

Kaz and JRK want to insert their opinions as fact, and they are called on it every time. JRK does not understand that his "facts" are not indeed incontrovertible facts that prove his point; actually, quite the reverse.

JRK has every right to run away. Kaz, at least, stays to fight. Congrats for that.

You're not talking about "facts" though, you're talking about "liberal facts." A liberal fact is any statement, no matter how factually untrue, which supports a liberal argument. A "lie" on the other hand is any statement, no matter how factually true, which counters a liberal argument. Which is the only reason your arguments work. Every statement that supports them is by definition "truth" and any statement that counters them is by definition "lie." Now that you understand liberal logic, go back and read your and other liberal posts and all of a sudden your inane ramblings suddenly make sense. They are in fact irrefutable arguments. By definition. Any statement refuting them is a "lie."

run away?
Jake your not worth the time and effort
Jake all I have stated is that congress voted in favor of attacking
we attacked
the reasons we attack were presented to congress in 2006 (DOD)
as a bonus we added some yellow cake in 2008

what so hard about that?
and why is it you feel you need to attack your fellow american?
go away, your not worth the effort JAKE
I wish I knew how to put you on dbl ignore

 

[JakeStarkey]

The facts clearly reveal that you are supporting an untenable position.

The war never should have occurred. Are the dems, who supported it because they were weak then, still hammering the pubs for it now; you bet.

Both leftwing and rightwing progressive neo-cons started a war that should never have happened.

 

[JakeStarkey]

JRK puts me on ignore than yells at me? OK. But yell something makes sense. Nothing you have argued to support your cause is supportable; they fall apart when examined.

You are nothing but a partisan rightwing progressive demagogue of a neo-con. Go to, fellow, go to.

 

[kaz]

The facts clearly reveal that you are supporting an untenable position.

The war never should have occurred. Are the dems, who supported it because they were weak then, still hammering the pubs for it now; you bet.

Both leftwing and rightwing progressive neo-cons started a war that should never have happened.

And in typical liberal fashion you will agree to a broad sweeping statement that Democrats are to blame too, yet you will continue to use it as a hammer to get Republicans as you have done and continue to not bring it up to attack Democrats as you have done. You have no conviction on the issue. I hammer both parties with it because I do.

Obama continued W's Iraq policy to the letter and expanded Afghanistan. Sorry the facts are inconvenient for you, but your insistence that you care about them and I don't is beyond laughable, it's pathetic.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am Republican, Kaz, while you are nothing more than a libertarian trying to influence GOP politics.

I don't need the right-wing progressive neo-cons in the GOP any more than I need libertarians, either right or left leaning.

You call me 'liberal' because you disagree with me, not because you can prove I am not a classical liberal, which all good Republicans are.

 

[JRK]

Its like I have said over and over
If you are against the war thats your right, but e against it for reasons that are real

Saddam lied
he had WMDs that were suppose to have been documented and destroyed, ones that the UN knew nothing about
There is allot of confusion as to the 550 metric tons of yellow cake that we know now that existed as to when it was actually found. Bottom line is before we invaded no one was really in control of it and this is why the post invasion date exists as far as when the US found it

There is still anthrax, nerve gas as well as 6000 munitions that have been documented as existing that never have been found

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bottom line is (1) our invasion was illegal, (2) subject the international laws of war, and (3) our senior bushies can't travel to parts of Europe.

 

[NoNukes]

I am Republican, Kaz, while you are nothing more than a libertarian trying to influence GOP politics.

I don't need the right-wing progressive neo-cons in the GOP any more than I need libertarians, either right or left leaning.

You call me 'liberal' because you disagree with me, not because you can prove I am not a classical liberal, which all good Republicans are.

Oxymoron.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am Republican, Kaz, while you are nothing more than a libertarian trying to influence GOP politics.

I don't need the right-wing progressive neo-cons in the GOP any more than I need libertarians, either right or left leaning.

You call me 'liberal' because you disagree with me, not because you can prove I am not a classical liberal, which all good Republicans are.

Oxymoron.

Not at all, NoNukes. Many dems and pubs are great classical liberals. Unfortunately, so many in both parties don't have a fucking clue what CL might be and why it is important to understand the philosophy.

 

[kaz]

I am Republican, Kaz

And I'm the virgin Mary...

 

[JRK]

I am Republican, Kaz, while you are nothing more than a libertarian trying to influence GOP politics.

I don't need the right-wing progressive neo-cons in the GOP any more than I need libertarians, either right or left leaning.

You call me 'liberal' because you disagree with me, not because you can prove I am not a classical liberal, which all good Republicans are.

Oxymoron.

none of that made any sense
none of it
and who cares what your politics are?
Pay your bills and do the right things I could care less

Policies will speak for them selves. We have seen that in the last 30 months