Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

[JakeStarkey]

I am Republican, Kaz

And I'm the virgin Mary...

I am truthful, and you are blasphemous.

ps: if you are the Holy Mother, I have a request.

 

[9thIDdoc]

I think the 100,000 dead Iraqis might not think it was a success...
sofia-notes.blogspot.com/2011/09/10-more-years-of-this.html

Aside from the likelyhood that the figure you quote is nothing more than a wild guess made by someone with an agenda, what is the point of combining the numbers of dead terrorists and dead civilians (many of which were killed by those same terrorists)?
I don't know, and could care less, what they would think. I think our troops and most Americans consider it a great success. And they are correct.

 

[JRK]

I think the 100,000 dead Iraqis might not think it was a success...
sofia-notes.blogspot.com/2011/09/10-more-years-of-this.html

Aside from the likelyhood that the figure you quote is nothing more than a wild guess made by someone with an agenda, what is the point of combining the numbers of dead terrorists and dead civilians (many of which were killed by those same terrorists)?
I don't know, and could care less, what they would think. I think our troops and most Americans consider it a great success. And they are correct.

Let me add that there was more murdered in this country over the same time frame. Its all a bunch of spammed up spin
United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2009
Lets us not forget how many Saddam murdered also and you think the Iraqis had it bad killing terrorist'
Human rights in Saddam Hussein's Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Number of Victims

According to The New York Times, "he [Saddam] murdered as many as a million of his people, many with poison gas. He tortured, maimed and imprisoned countless more. His unprovoked invasion of Iran is estimated to have left another million people dead. His seizure of Kuwait threw the Middle East into crisis. More insidious, arguably, was the psychological damage he inflicted on his own land. Hussein created a nation of informants — friends on friends, circles within circles — making an entire population complicit in his rule".[9] Others have estimated 800,000 deaths caused by Saddam not counting the Iran-Iraq war.[10] Estimates as to the number of Iraqis executed by Saddam's regime vary from 300-500,000[11] to over 600,000,[12] estimates as to the number of Kurds he massacred vary from 70,000 to 300,000,[13] and estimates as to the number killed in the put-down of the 1991 rebellion vary from 60,000[14] to 200,000.[12] Estimates for the number of dead in the Iran-Iraq war range upwards from 300,000.[15]

it amazes me the left have found a way to hate GWB in so many ways, and ignore the real evil person who was in this

 

[9thIDdoc]

Bottom line is (1) our invasion was illegal, (2) subject the international laws of war, and (3) our senior bushies can't travel to parts of Europe.

(1) Untrue. Feel free to cite a law that you can factually claim to have been broken.

(2) Also untrue. There are no internation laws of war.

(3) Who cares?

 

[JRK]

Bottom line is (1) our invasion was illegal, (2) subject the international laws of war, and (3) our senior bushies can't travel to parts of Europe.

(1) Untrue. Feel free to cite a law that you can factually claim to have been broken.

(2) Also untrue. There are no internation laws of war.

(3) Who cares?

We are into over 100 pages of this debate and Mr ignore(I finally put him on ignore for that very reason) has yet to back up any of those claims, whats worse is he thinks there is some international agency the US president and congress has to go see before it can defend its borders
He and so many Libs just dont get it
Saddam did not adhere to UN Mandates
this is what congress stated was reason to attack, October 2002
this was officially put to bed with this event in 2006
Defense.gov News Article: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says
Its that simple, lets not forget the 550 metric tons of yellow cake in addition that all of sudden popped up in 2008 that according to some was not found until after we invaded. (no matter it was was not being took care of until the US went and got it in 2003)

 

[NoNukes]

I am Republican, Kaz, while you are nothing more than a libertarian trying to influence GOP politics.

I don't need the right-wing progressive neo-cons in the GOP any more than I need libertarians, either right or left leaning.

You call me 'liberal' because you disagree with me, not because you can prove I am not a classical liberal, which all good Republicans are.

Oxymoron.

Not at all, NoNukes. Many dems and pubs are great classical liberals. Unfortunately, so many in both parties don't have a fucking clue what CL might be and why it is important to understand the philosophy.

That was a joke, Jake, you DID say that you were a Republican.

 

[JakeStarkey]

An inaccurate joke. Many pubs are classical liberals as are many dems. Many are not, as those far from the far left and many from the tea party express coalition.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Off topic much?

 

[FactFinder]

1) REMOVE SADDAM
DONE
2) STABILIZE COUNTRY
DONE
3) HAVE A REPUBLIC BORN OF THESE EVENTS
DONE

Am missing something here?

Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

From one who regrets being an early supporter, I claim Iraq was a failure because we never should have been there and why are we still? Methinks it has more to do with internationalism and globalization then any grace to Iraq or the US.

 

[9thIDdoc]

And why do you think we never should have been there? Many would (and did) disagree.
At the time I would have liked to see Bagdad become a radioactive lake on 9/12. We could have caimed they mishandled one of their own WMD's., saved American lives and a lot of money. Would have also sent a clear message to the terrorists in the ME.

 

[idb]

And why do you think we never should have been there? Many would (and did) disagree.
At the time I would have liked to see Bagdad become a radioactive lake on 9/12. We could have caimed they mishandled one of their own WMD's., saved American lives and a lot of money. Would have also sent a clear message to the terrorists in the ME.

So what's your opinion now?

 

[JRK]

1) REMOVE SADDAM
DONE
2) STABILIZE COUNTRY
DONE
3) HAVE A REPUBLIC BORN OF THESE EVENTS
DONE

Am missing something here?

Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

From one who regrets being an early supporter, I claim Iraq was a failure because we never should have been there and why are we still? Methinks it has more to do with internationalism and globalization then any grace to Iraq or the US.

your reasoning in the after thought is a very good reason and was in my mind as much as the why as all of the other stuff combined
in 2001 on 9-11 the world changed. We thought as long as it was over there we would be fine
cleaning up the mess Saddam had made frrom WMDs to yellow cake to the killing of maybe 1 million of his own people as well as having a base in the middle of that mess become paramount
Your thread is honest, I respect your feelings
This morning as I watch the horror that was 9-11 removing another mad man from this world was the right thing as I see it

 

[Old Rocks]

1) REMOVE SADDAM
DONE
2) STABILIZE COUNTRY
DONE
3) HAVE A REPUBLIC BORN OF THESE EVENTS
DONE

Am missing something here?

Only the fact that Iraq was invaded by the US on the basis of lies. Only the fact that Iraq is about as stable at present as nitro is at -40 degrees. Only the fact that that Republic will probably disappear the moment the boots of the last US soldier leaves Iraqi soil.

Bush bankrupted our nation attacking a nation that had nothing to do with 9-11 and had no WMD. He failed to get the man that was responsible for the murder of 3000 Americans on American soil.

Go ahead, claim victory as you stand in the ashes of defeat. That is the 'Conservative' version of reality.

 

[JRK]

And why do you think we never should have been there? Many would (and did) disagree.
At the time I would have liked to see Bagdad become a radioactive lake on 9/12. We could have caimed they mishandled one of their own WMD's., saved American lives and a lot of money. Would have also sent a clear message to the terrorists in the ME.

It was an option
One I am glad we did not choose, but the reality is that Saddam would have used one the second he had it after 9-11
People dont understand this. Saddam killed 1 milllion people, maybe more, maybe a few less
He had shown he did not care for the human race. Saddam had to go

 

[idb]

And why do you think we never should have been there? Many would (and did) disagree.
At the time I would have liked to see Bagdad become a radioactive lake on 9/12. We could have caimed they mishandled one of their own WMD's., saved American lives and a lot of money. Would have also sent a clear message to the terrorists in the ME.

It was an option
One I am glad we did not choose, but the reality is that Saddam would have used one the second he had it after 9-11
People dont understand this. Saddam killed 1 milllion people, maybe more, maybe a few less
He had shown he did not care for the human race. Saddam had to go

So it was purely a humanitarian action by the US?
Just like Libya?

 

[NoNukes]

An inaccurate joke. Many pubs are classical liberals as are many dems. Many are not, as those far from the far left and many from the tea party express coalition.

A joke is a joke, accuracy is not important.

 

[NoNukes]

It may have had something to do with oil.

 

[JRK]

It may have had something to do with oil.

It may have something to do with the anthrax that has never been found
the close to 1 million Iraqis that Saddam killed
It may have to do with the lies Saddam had been telling the world
It may have something to do with the 550 metric tons of yellow cake he had control of
Oil?
Iraq supplies about 3% of the worlds oil

 

[NoNukes]

America is interested in the middle east because of oil.

 

[kaz]

It may have had something to do with oil.

It may have something to do with the anthrax that has never been found
the close to 1 million Iraqis that Saddam killed
It may have to do with the lies Saddam had been telling the world
It may have something to do with the 550 metric tons of yellow cake he had control of
Oil?
Iraq supplies about 3% of the worlds oil

Arguing that Hussein wasn't a threat in the middle east is a non-starter. He clearly was. The technology is the threat far more then the stockpiles. We know he had them because he used them against Iran as well as in Kuwait and to murder his own people. This is why I don't support my own anti-war "allies." They have to keep going to this brain dead argument.

The reason not to do it is because we don't belong in the middle east at all. We have to remove our troops and not be involved in every conflict. Let them handle their own problems and let the Euros deal with it. In that way we would have fewer enemies in the world. Just because someone's a bad guy or a bully doesn't mean I need to challenge them to a fight. But to argue that Hussein wasn't a threat because we didn't find stockpiles of WMD's is just frankly retarded. You've got the right side, now argue the right reason.