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Really? WHo is going to wipe them off the face of the Earth? Obama? He couldnt even bomb Assad after he promised to. Iran has zero to fear from Obama and they know that.Not only have they announced that, they have acted towards that end by sending their proxies to Lebanon and Yemen. And it would be in their interests to do so.What does Iran "want" to do, in your opinion?
Acquire a nuclear weapon. Kill Israel. Gain influence in the Middle East.
What makes you think they "want" to do any of those things? Well, the first two. The third one is pretty much a given.
Other than because they said so - you might take fanatical religious dictators at their word, but I need more than that.
You understand countries have vested interests in things and generally try to attain them, right? Or is that just somethng you need a crystal ball for?
The leaders of Iran have a much more "vested" interest in not being wiped off the face of the earth.
Iran has been more of rational actor than we have over the last 30 years.
Hitler liked dogs - and so does Obama!
OH NOES!
Seriously?
Yeah, seriously.
You Godwin'd your own argument.
Seriously, when your argument starts with "Hitler said he wanted to kill the Jews, and he did - therefore....", it's time to pack it in and go home.
Sure, or you can look at the deeper implication. Instead of dismissing it simply because I mention Hitler. If you're intellectually honest, you'll address my point.
So the historical precedent of anti-semites threatening Jews and then following through on those threats even though many dismiss them is irrelevant to a case of anti semites threatening Jews and many dismissing them? In what universe?So the fact that Hitler annoucned what he was going to do and actually did it, even though no one believed he would is...what? Humor? Irrelevant? Untrue? Hearsay?Seriously, you guys need to look at the big picture, and stop thinking in terms of your cartoon-villain version of Iran.
"The big picture" or your version of reality.
Time to take a trip to the Land of Godwin:
When Hitler expressed his desire to exterminate Jews, was he "blustering" then? History says not. He wen't through with it.
So.
When Iran expresses their desire to wipe out Israel, they will. The Six Day War and the 1st and 2nd Intifada says they will. Iran holds the same goals as most radical Islamist states. Kill Israel.
When Iran expresses its desire to acquire a nuclear weapon, all of this "blustering" falls in line with that.
Seriously, when your argument starts with "Hitler said he wanted to kill the Jews, and he did - therefore....", it's time to pack it in and go home. Come on, man. Don't allow your arguments to become a parody.
Hitler liked dogs - and so does Obama!
OH NOES!
It is entirely irrelevant and in general a pretty weak and pathetic appeal to emotion.
You'd have to see how stupid it is to deny that when people say they're going to do something they actually mean they're going to do something.Seriously, when your argument starts with "Hitler said he wanted to kill the Jews, and he did - therefore....", it's time to pack it in and go home.
Sure, or you can look at the deeper implication. Instead of dismissing it simply because I mention Hitler. If you're intellectually honest, you'll address my point.
What point?
You're arguing that because Hitler said he wanted to do something and then did it, therefore Iran will do the same thing.
You have to see how ridiculous that is.
You're arguing that because Hitler said he wanted to do something and then did it, therefore Iran will do the same thing.
Really? WHo is going to wipe them off the face of the Earth? Obama? He couldnt even bomb Assad after he promised to. Iran has zero to fear from Obama and they know that.Not only have they announced that, they have acted towards that end by sending their proxies to Lebanon and Yemen. And it would be in their interests to do so.What does Iran "want" to do, in your opinion?
Acquire a nuclear weapon. Kill Israel. Gain influence in the Middle East.
What makes you think they "want" to do any of those things? Well, the first two. The third one is pretty much a given.
Other than because they said so - you might take fanatical religious dictators at their word, but I need more than that.
You understand countries have vested interests in things and generally try to attain them, right? Or is that just somethng you need a crystal ball for?
The leaders of Iran have a much more "vested" interest in not being wiped off the face of the earth.
Iran has been more of rational actor than we have over the last 30 years.
Iran has been a rational actor? I guess that depends on your defintion of rationailty.
Hitler liked dogs - and so does Obama!
OH NOES!
Seriously?
Yeah, seriously.
You Godwin'd your own argument.
Of course I did! But here you are deflecting away from the point.
Iran is surrounded by 5 (possibly 6) nuclear states who have no desire to see a new member of the club, including Israel (which has second-strike capability) and 3 important economic allies of Israel.
You're arguing that because Hitler said he wanted to do something and then did it, therefore Iran will do the same thing.
So, Iran doesn't want to kill Jews, and it suddenly doesn't want to acquire a nuclear weapon. Consider the wider implications of your own argument Doc.
Iran is surrounded by 5 (possibly 6) nuclear states who have no desire to see a new member of the club, including Israel (which has second-strike capability) and 3 important economic allies of Israel.
And you think that will stop them? Forgive me if I think that is...hard to believe.
You'd have to see how stupid it is to deny that when people say they're going to do something they actually mean they're going to do something.Seriously, when your argument starts with "Hitler said he wanted to kill the Jews, and he did - therefore....", it's time to pack it in and go home.
Sure, or you can look at the deeper implication. Instead of dismissing it simply because I mention Hitler. If you're intellectually honest, you'll address my point.
What point?
You're arguing that because Hitler said he wanted to do something and then did it, therefore Iran will do the same thing.
You have to see how ridiculous that is.
For every super-mega-evil dictator who has said he would do terrible things and did, there are a thousand tin-pot dictators who've made claims that they had no intention of following through on.
Why is it hard to believe that Iran doesn't want to be utterly destroyed?
Why is it hard to believe that Iran doesn't want to be utterly destroyed?
How is it you know what they want? Here you are preaching about how I don't know anything myself about what they want, yet here you are assuming they don't want to be destroyed.
Wrong,This has been gone over countless times already. It's settled.
Obama already has the authority to sign this treaty under the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, which was ratified by the Senate 40 years ago. It's a non-issue.
It is a Treaty under the meaning of the term in the Constitution, thus subject to ratification. In any case, Bob Corker hammered out a deal that also requires Congressional approval. If Obama fucks over the GOP in Congress he wont get anything done the rest of his term. Congress will declare the treaty null and void and act accordingly.
BUt it doesnt matter. The irananians have no intention of adhering to anything that restricts their activities. That much is clear. They will blow up this treaty as they've blown up previous ones. And they know Obama is in office only for another 18 months and after that is anyone's guess.
Seriously, when your argument starts with "Hitler said he wanted to kill the Jews, and he did - therefore....", it's time to pack it in and go home.
Sure, or you can look at the deeper implication. Instead of dismissing it simply because I mention Hitler. If you're intellectually honest, you'll address my point.
Yeah their best interest is blowing up Jewish community centers in Argentina..Their best interest is not ours you idiotWhy is it hard to believe that Iran doesn't want to be utterly destroyed?
How is it you know what they want? Here you are preaching about how I don't know anything myself about what they want, yet here you are assuming they don't want to be destroyed.
I assume that because pretty much every political action that the leadership in Iran has made since 1979 has been a rational action in regards to their best interests, and there's no reason to think they would all of a sudden become suicidal.
Interestingly enough, Neville Chamberlain negotiated a so called "Peace Treaty" between Britain and Hitler's Germany in 1938. Hitler had no intention of keeping to his side of the treaty. Hitler made that clear after he conquered France in 1940, those intentions became even more clear by the Blitzkrieg in 1941.
Japan negotiated for an end to the oil tariffs imposed by the US, even as it conspired internally to attack Pearl Harbor. The negotiations were nothing but stalling for time. Again, in 1941, Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.
I'm not talking out of my backside here. Negotiations and deals have been used time and again to stall, and to cover for malevolent intentions. Iran is doing the same damn thing!!
