Will someone tell me the difference between [modern] liberalism and communism?

[regent]

Perhaps
but to some

The more modern "liberal'
(a word co-opted from the classical use of the word)
approach that man is neither good or evil.
It is more a case of nurture

Classical liberal would probably argue that man is both good and evil
individual choice is the biggest factor

Many good people have been raised in terrible environments
just as many evil people have been raised in good environments

How can liberals possibly believe that man is basically good when they also believe government has to force men to help the poor and the elderly?

Is it easier to get some people to help the poor and elderly than other people?

 

[RKMBrown]

Perhaps
but to some

The more modern "liberal'
(a word co-opted from the classical use of the word)
approach that man is neither good or evil.
It is more a case of nurture

Classical liberal would probably argue that man is both good and evil
individual choice is the biggest factor

Many good people have been raised in terrible environments
just as many evil people have been raised in good environments

How can liberals possibly believe that man is basically good when they also believe government has to force men to help the poor and the elderly?

Is it easier to get some people to help the poor and elderly than other people?

Is it easier to get some people to do their own charity vs. robbing money from Peter to pay Paul?

 

[billyerock1991]

Are there?


The goals as they were for the American Communist Party in 1963:

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

Which is awfully similar to Obama's willingness to turn us into a country similar to Europe, and supposed willingness to destroy segments of our nuclear arsenal.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

See No. 1

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

See liberal gun control agenda, signage of the UN Small Arms Treaty.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

See Obama's funding of the Muslim Brotherhood, donations of tanks and warplanes to Egypt and donations of US arms to Syrian Rebels linked to Al-Qaeda.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

See China's membership in the UN which included full veto power.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

From 1961 to 1989 that was the case, but Ronald Reagan helped facilitate the reconstitution of Germany, which occurred in September 1990.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

See UN Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty of 1968, the US was a signatory under Lyndon Johnson.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Ukraine, Belarus, and Lithuania once all former Soviet satellite nations are currently members of the UN.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

See Communist Control Act of 1954, signed into law by President Dwight Eisenhower.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

See President Obama's continued breaches of his oath of office.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

See the Democratic Party.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

See Supreme Court ruling on Obamacare.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

See current failure of the American educational system through continued government funding and dictation.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

See the Occupy Wall Street movement of 2011.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

See the American Main Stream Media.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

See No. 20

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

See FCC v. Fox Television Stations (2012)

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

See Supreme Court ruling on the Defense of Marriage Act, California's Proposition 8.

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

See the Democratic Nation Convention in 2012, where the audience booed a decision to add God, Jerusalem back into the platform. See efforts by Democrats to remove religious displays from public view.

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

See the elimination of prayer in schools, efforts to have "under God" stricken from the Pledge of Allegiance, Liberal marginalization of the Christian faith.

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

See Obama's continuous breaches of multiple parts of the Constitution here.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

See Liberal attempts to label the Founding Fathers as extremists.

Defense Department guide calls Founding Fathers 'extremist' | The Daily Caller

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

See centralized governmental institutions such as the Department of Education, Commerce, Defense, Health, Revenue, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

See Liberal selective application of the United States Constitution.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

This committee was abolished in 1975 under the Carter Administration.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

See Liberal acceptance of male-male and female-female family units. Infatuation with premarital sexual activity.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

See Iraq, Afghanistan.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

See The Torrijos–Carter Treaties.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

See the United Nations.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/319919-defining-liberalism-10.html#post8037348

• like allways you're full of shit...

Like always, you have no argument. Fuck off.

like always you're full of shit ... how shall i fuck off !!!! in your mouth???

 

[The2ndAmendment]

How about this for a liberal core value: man is basically good.

Then why do you want our guns?

 

[Vox]

Might get a small booklet on political ideologies, they are usually found in college bookstores, but if you create your own ideological definitions the booklets will not help. Ideologies can also be found on some TV and radio stations. Those stations tend to give listeners the ideologies the station wants their listeners to have, so thinking or buying booklets is not required, sort of a prepackaged ideology.
For some posters the beginning starts with a simple question: do liberals and conservatives think or believe differently on issues?

In other words, you can't name any core values liberals have.

BTW, your position on any given issue isn't evidence of a core value. Mostly it is the result of political expediency.

How about this for a liberal core value: man is basically good.

except it is not true.

 

[Desperado]

Will someone tell me the difference between [modern] liberalism and communism?

Other than the name.... there is no differences, their goals are exactly the same.

 

[RKMBrown]

How about this for a liberal core value: man is basically good.

Then why do you want our guns?

So they can eat us?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Will someone tell me the difference between [modern] liberalism and communism?

modern liberalism is communism-lite.........like obamacare....

 

[bripat9643]

Perhaps
but to some

The more modern "liberal'
(a word co-opted from the classical use of the word)
approach that man is neither good or evil.
It is more a case of nurture

Classical liberal would probably argue that man is both good and evil
individual choice is the biggest factor

Many good people have been raised in terrible environments
just as many evil people have been raised in good environments

How can liberals possibly believe that man is basically good when they also believe government has to force men to help the poor and the elderly?

Is it easier to get some people to help the poor and elderly than other people?

Then you admit that you don' t believe man is basically good. If he was good, he wouldn't need to be coerced.

 

[bripat9643]

smell

communists smell better

no, they don't.

there is an immediate shortage of water, soap and deodorants when communists get their power

there is also shortage of EVERYTHING, but I listed only something pertinent to smell

They are currently suffering from a severe shortage of toilet paper in Venezuela.

 

[Vox]

smell

communists smell better

no, they don't.

there is an immediate shortage of water, soap and deodorants when communists get their power

there is also shortage of EVERYTHING, but I listed only something pertinent to smell

They are currently suffering from a severe shortage of toilet paper in Venezuela.

oh, that's a classic why does toilet paper have to disappear with the dawn of real socialism - is a enigma until today

a joke from the time of "thriving socialism" in USSR ( toilet paper was a CONSTANT shortage from the very beginning to the very death of the evil empire and miraculously appeared overnight the moment it was pronounced dead):

a man is carrying about 20 rolls of toilet paper all tied together - meets a friend, who, obviously is astonished and asks in envy - where did you get the toilet paper, as it is nowhere to be found - and the answer is - nowhere - I am bringing it from the dry cleaners ( sounds better in original but you get the picture)

 

[Neotrotsky]

Will someone tell me the difference between [modern] liberalism and communism?

Not much, they have just changed which demagogue to worship

 

[rdean]

What's the difference between Hitler and Republicans? They both hate blacks. That's a "given". If blacks had lived in Germany, there never would have been a holocaust. At least not against Jews.

Liberals hate blacks.
Republicans equalize all groups.
Liberals believe blacks to be mentally deficient.

Oh yea, right. It's why the Republican party is 90% white. Because they "equalize" everyone. I guess that 47% comment never happened.

 

[Neotrotsky]

It benefits the left to keep people in the dark

Worse than apartheid: Black in Obama's American

Black South Africans under apartheid had a median net worth about 6.8% that of white South Africans.

The average white household iin the US has a net worth of $110,729.
Black Americans’ median net worth is less than 5 percent that of white Americans.

$4,955 to be exact


h/t Kevin D. Williamson

 

[S.J.]

What's the difference between Hitler and Republicans? They both hate blacks. That's a "given". If blacks had lived in Germany, there never would have been a holocaust. At least not against Jews.

Liberals hate blacks.
Republicans equalize all groups.
Liberals believe blacks to be mentally deficient.

Oh yea, right. It's why the Republican party is 90% white. Because they "equalize" everyone. I guess that 47% comment never happened.

Still race baiting, eh? Don't you ever give up?

 

[Neotrotsky]

Speaking of policies and the effects on race

 

[Pogo]

I have a question for modern liberals in any political party. Please tell me the differences between your beliefs and those of Karl Marx, the father of communism? Seriously now, I’m not joking. Let’s have an honest dialogue and I promise that I’ll listen with an open mind.

Every single time a conservative such as me calls some liberal idiot a communist we get pilloried and the liberal useful idiot points out that they don’t stand for the outright ownership of all private property. Okay, I get that. But, you do apparently stand for government control of all property and industry and you believe in central planning, key components of communism.

Even people like Lawrence O’Donnell of MSNBC are coming out now and proudly proclaiming their socialism (socialism is the economic philosophy of communism).

Here’s the video of old Larry proclaiming his socialism:

MSNBC Anchor O'Donnell: "I Am A Socialist. I Live To The Extreme Left Of You Mere Liberals!" - YouTube

I know it is off the topic of my question, but just for fun, let’s listen to Milton Friedman compare Socialism and Capitalism while he takes Phil Donahue to task – a video that President Obama and Michael Moore need to watch:

Milton Friedman - Socialism vs. Capitalism - YouTube

Okay, below are the ten planks of communism and you can compare them yourselves to what we currently have in America and what liberals traditionally argue in favor of. If the answer is simply a matter of degrees then tell me that. I really – honestly want to know the differences.
Let’s take a look at the ten planks of communism.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

Right now, the federal government owns approximately 30% of all American land. Private property owners pay local property taxes (the application of rents to public purposes) to fund various local, state and federal programs. We have a heavy progressive income tax, credit has been centralized under the federal government as have communications and transportation, agriculture and industry are being combined through corporate farms, and of course we’ve had “free public education” for decades in America.

We also used to have a heavy inheritance tax and liberals are arguing for that again, claiming that you have no right to bequeath your property or money to your children or other relatives.

Okay, some brave liberal out there please explain the differences between that in which you believe, support and urge with communism. I’ll listen with an open mind.

Communism's on the political "left". Liberalism is neither right nor left.

Btw you don't say where you get these "ten planks of communism" -- apparently you just made them up. And didn't put a lot of thought into it.

... Or should I go look for this OP verbatim on some other message board where you copied it?

 

[Pogo]

... Or should I go look for this OP verbatim on some other message board where you copied it?

Ah... never mind. Found it right here. Verbatim. Again.

So tell me something 2A...
Have you ever written an original post on this message board at all, ever?

You know lifting entire web pages and posting them here is a no-no, do you not?

I mean, what are we expected to do, go write our reply posts on Steve Bussey's blog page?

You're a common thief, 2A. Busted again.

 

[Kathy58]

Are there?


The goals as they were for the American Communist Party in 1963:

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

Which is awfully similar to Obama's willingness to turn us into a country similar to Europe, and supposed willingness to destroy segments of our nuclear arsenal.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

See No. 1

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

See liberal gun control agenda, signage of the UN Small Arms Treaty.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

See Obama's funding of the Muslim Brotherhood, donations of tanks and warplanes to Egypt and donations of US arms to Syrian Rebels linked to Al-Qaeda.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

See China's membership in the UN which included full veto power.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

From 1961 to 1989 that was the case, but Ronald Reagan helped facilitate the reconstitution of Germany, which occurred in September 1990.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

See UN Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty of 1968, the US was a signatory under Lyndon Johnson.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Ukraine, Belarus, and Lithuania once all former Soviet satellite nations are currently members of the UN.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

See Communist Control Act of 1954, signed into law by President Dwight Eisenhower.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

See President Obama's continued breaches of his oath of office.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

See the Democratic Party.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

See Supreme Court ruling on Obamacare.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

See current failure of the American educational system through continued government funding and dictation.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

See the Occupy Wall Street movement of 2011.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

See the American Main Stream Media.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

See No. 20

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

See FCC v. Fox Television Stations (2012)

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

See Supreme Court ruling on the Defense of Marriage Act, California's Proposition 8.

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

See the Democratic Nation Convention in 2012, where the audience booed a decision to add God, Jerusalem back into the platform. See efforts by Democrats to remove religious displays from public view.

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

See the elimination of prayer in schools, efforts to have "under God" stricken from the Pledge of Allegiance, Liberal marginalization of the Christian faith.

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

See Obama's continuous breaches of multiple parts of the Constitution here.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

See Liberal attempts to label the Founding Fathers as extremists.

Defense Department guide calls Founding Fathers 'extremist' | The Daily Caller

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

See centralized governmental institutions such as the Department of Education, Commerce, Defense, Health, Revenue, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

See Liberal selective application of the United States Constitution.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

This committee was abolished in 1975 under the Carter Administration.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

See Liberal acceptance of male-male and female-female family units. Infatuation with premarital sexual activity.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

See Iraq, Afghanistan.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

See The Torrijos–Carter Treaties.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

See the United Nations.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/319919-defining-liberalism-10.html#post8037348

Excellent post and worth quoting!!

I agree!

 

[The2ndAmendment]

[

You know lifting entire web pages and posting them here is a no-no, do you not?

I mean, what are we expected to do, go write our reply posts on Steve Bussey's blog page?

I've called into his show a few times. He told his audience several days ago to locate his question, that was never answered, and to ask it to every liberal you know.

Just spreading the word --- on his orders.

You mad?

LOL LOL LOL LOL