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Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.-Wait a minute now, maybe there is a distinction between fascism/crony capitalism and socialism. Socialism is when government owns business rather than just controlling it. That would lead me to infer that we are not socialist but instead fascist
Exactly, Holmes. Both parties are fascist.
Crony capitalism is as it's name suggests, capitalists creating favorable conditions for profit generation. It has nothing in common with socialism or fascism, two distinctly different ideologies, and concepts which you have clearly shown to be ignorant of.
Sorry, guy, you don't get to make up your own definition for words
– Ludwig von Mises, Human ActionXXVII. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MARKET I. The Idea of a Third System P RIVATE ownership of the means of production (market economy or capitalism) and public ownership of the means of production (socialism or communism or "planning") can be neatly distinguished. Each of these two systems of society's econonlic organization is open to a precise and unambiguous description and definition. They can never be confounded with one another; they cannot be mixid or combined; no gradual transition leads from one of thcm to the other; their obversion is contradictory. With regard to the same factors of production there can only exist private control or public control. If in the frame of a system of social cooperation only some means of production are subject to public ownership while the rest are controlled by privatc individuals, this does not make for a mixed system combining socialism and private ownership. The system remains a market society, provided the socialized sector does not become entirely separated from the non-socialized sector and Iead a strictly autarkic existence. (In this latter case there are two systems independently coexisting side by side-a capitalist and a socialist.) Publicly owned enterprises, operating within a system in which there are privatcly owned enterprises and a market, and socialized countries, exchanging goods and services with nonsocialist countries, are integrated into a system of market economy. They are subject to the law of the market and have the opportunity of resorting to economic cal~ulation.~
Then why can another capitalist come along, offer them more money and get their way? You're full of it. Government is allowing themselves to be controlled for their own benefit, not the business's benefit. And they do so only as long as that's the best option for them. Only one of them has guns, Holmes. And they are fully aware of that...
That's why it is a form of socialism. It is clearly not capitalism, you can't have free markets controlled by government, it's a complete oxymoron
Then why can another capitalist come along, offer them more money and get their way? You're full of it. Government is allowing themselves to be controlled for their own benefit, not the business's benefit. And they do so only as long as that's the best option for them. Only one of them has guns, Holmes. And they are fully aware of that...
That's why it is a form of socialism. It is clearly not capitalism, you can't have free markets controlled by government, it's a complete oxymoron
I tried to explain it as best as I could Watson, but you simply don't want to understand it.
According to you, anything that isn't holy free market capitalism is fascism, which is the same as socialism and nothing will change your mind.
But maybe you would like to explain this, do you know who the first people were who were put in camps under fascism/nazism? It were not the jews but the communists/union leaders and social democrats? Now, why would the fascists do that if they were the same as socialists?
Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.-Wait a minute now, maybe there is a distinction between fascism/crony capitalism and socialism. Socialism is when government owns business rather than just controlling it. That would lead me to infer that we are not socialist but instead fascist
Crony capitalism is as it's name suggests, capitalists creating favorable conditions for profit generation. It has nothing in common with socialism or fascism, two distinctly different ideologies, and concepts which you have clearly shown to be ignorant of.
Sorry, guy, you don't get to make up your own definition for words
– Ludwig von Mises, Human ActionXXVII. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MARKET I. The Idea of a Third System P RIVATE ownership of the means of production (market economy or capitalism) and public ownership of the means of production (socialism or communism or "planning") can be neatly distinguished. Each of these two systems of society's econonlic organization is open to a precise and unambiguous description and definition. They can never be confounded with one another; they cannot be mixid or combined; no gradual transition leads from one of thcm to the other; their obversion is contradictory. With regard to the same factors of production there can only exist private control or public control. If in the frame of a system of social cooperation only some means of production are subject to public ownership while the rest are controlled by privatc individuals, this does not make for a mixed system combining socialism and private ownership. The system remains a market society, provided the socialized sector does not become entirely separated from the non-socialized sector and Iead a strictly autarkic existence. (In this latter case there are two systems independently coexisting side by side-a capitalist and a socialist.) Publicly owned enterprises, operating within a system in which there are privatcly owned enterprises and a market, and socialized countries, exchanging goods and services with nonsocialist countries, are integrated into a system of market economy. They are subject to the law of the market and have the opportunity of resorting to economic cal~ulation.~
Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.
citation?Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.-Wait a minute now, maybe there is a distinction between fascism/crony capitalism and socialism. Socialism is when government owns business rather than just controlling it. That would lead me to infer that we are not socialist but instead fascist
Crony capitalism is as it's name suggests, capitalists creating favorable conditions for profit generation. It has nothing in common with socialism or fascism, two distinctly different ideologies, and concepts which you have clearly shown to be ignorant of.
Sorry, guy, you don't get to make up your own definition for words
– Ludwig von Mises, Human ActionXXVII. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MARKET I. The Idea of a Third System P RIVATE ownership of the means of production (market economy or capitalism) and public ownership of the means of production (socialism or communism or "planning") can be neatly distinguished. Each of these two systems of society's econonlic organization is open to a precise and unambiguous description and definition. They can never be confounded with one another; they cannot be mixid or combined; no gradual transition leads from one of thcm to the other; their obversion is contradictory. With regard to the same factors of production there can only exist private control or public control. If in the frame of a system of social cooperation only some means of production are subject to public ownership while the rest are controlled by privatc individuals, this does not make for a mixed system combining socialism and private ownership. The system remains a market society, provided the socialized sector does not become entirely separated from the non-socialized sector and Iead a strictly autarkic existence. (In this latter case there are two systems independently coexisting side by side-a capitalist and a socialist.) Publicly owned enterprises, operating within a system in which there are privatcly owned enterprises and a market, and socialized countries, exchanging goods and services with nonsocialist countries, are integrated into a system of market economy. They are subject to the law of the market and have the opportunity of resorting to economic cal~ulation.~
Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.
But maybe you would like to explain this, do you know who the first people were who were put in camps under fascism/nazism? It were not the jews but the communists/union leaders and social democrats? Now, why would the fascists do that if they were the same as socialists?
Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.-Wait a minute now, maybe there is a distinction between fascism/crony capitalism and socialism. Socialism is when government owns business rather than just controlling it. That would lead me to infer that we are not socialist but instead fascist
Crony capitalism is as it's name suggests, capitalists creating favorable conditions for profit generation. It has nothing in common with socialism or fascism, two distinctly different ideologies, and concepts which you have clearly shown to be ignorant of.
Sorry, guy, you don't get to make up your own definition for words
– Ludwig von Mises, Human ActionXXVII. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MARKET I. The Idea of a Third System P RIVATE ownership of the means of production (market economy or capitalism) and public ownership of the means of production (socialism or communism or "planning") can be neatly distinguished. Each of these two systems of society's econonlic organization is open to a precise and unambiguous description and definition. They can never be confounded with one another; they cannot be mixid or combined; no gradual transition leads from one of thcm to the other; their obversion is contradictory. With regard to the same factors of production there can only exist private control or public control. If in the frame of a system of social cooperation only some means of production are subject to public ownership while the rest are controlled by privatc individuals, this does not make for a mixed system combining socialism and private ownership. The system remains a market society, provided the socialized sector does not become entirely separated from the non-socialized sector and Iead a strictly autarkic existence. (In this latter case there are two systems independently coexisting side by side-a capitalist and a socialist.) Publicly owned enterprises, operating within a system in which there are privatcly owned enterprises and a market, and socialized countries, exchanging goods and services with nonsocialist countries, are integrated into a system of market economy. They are subject to the law of the market and have the opportunity of resorting to economic cal~ulation.~
Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.citation?Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.-Wait a minute now, maybe there is a distinction between fascism/crony capitalism and socialism. Socialism is when government owns business rather than just controlling it. That would lead me to infer that we are not socialist but instead fascist
Crony capitalism is as it's name suggests, capitalists creating favorable conditions for profit generation. It has nothing in common with socialism or fascism, two distinctly different ideologies, and concepts which you have clearly shown to be ignorant of.
Sorry, guy, you don't get to make up your own definition for words
– Ludwig von Mises, Human ActionXXVII. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MARKET I. The Idea of a Third System P RIVATE ownership of the means of production (market economy or capitalism) and public ownership of the means of production (socialism or communism or "planning") can be neatly distinguished. Each of these two systems of society's econonlic organization is open to a precise and unambiguous description and definition. They can never be confounded with one another; they cannot be mixid or combined; no gradual transition leads from one of thcm to the other; their obversion is contradictory. With regard to the same factors of production there can only exist private control or public control. If in the frame of a system of social cooperation only some means of production are subject to public ownership while the rest are controlled by privatc individuals, this does not make for a mixed system combining socialism and private ownership. The system remains a market society, provided the socialized sector does not become entirely separated from the non-socialized sector and Iead a strictly autarkic existence. (In this latter case there are two systems independently coexisting side by side-a capitalist and a socialist.) Publicly owned enterprises, operating within a system in which there are privatcly owned enterprises and a market, and socialized countries, exchanging goods and services with nonsocialist countries, are integrated into a system of market economy. They are subject to the law of the market and have the opportunity of resorting to economic cal~ulation.~
Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.
He is talking about the realization of socialism in that passage moron.Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.-Wait a minute now, maybe there is a distinction between fascism/crony capitalism and socialism. Socialism is when government owns business rather than just controlling it. That would lead me to infer that we are not socialist but instead fascist
Crony capitalism is as it's name suggests, capitalists creating favorable conditions for profit generation. It has nothing in common with socialism or fascism, two distinctly different ideologies, and concepts which you have clearly shown to be ignorant of.
Sorry, guy, you don't get to make up your own definition for words
– Ludwig von Mises, Human ActionXXVII. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MARKET I. The Idea of a Third System P RIVATE ownership of the means of production (market economy or capitalism) and public ownership of the means of production (socialism or communism or "planning") can be neatly distinguished. Each of these two systems of society's econonlic organization is open to a precise and unambiguous description and definition. They can never be confounded with one another; they cannot be mixid or combined; no gradual transition leads from one of thcm to the other; their obversion is contradictory. With regard to the same factors of production there can only exist private control or public control. If in the frame of a system of social cooperation only some means of production are subject to public ownership while the rest are controlled by privatc individuals, this does not make for a mixed system combining socialism and private ownership. The system remains a market society, provided the socialized sector does not become entirely separated from the non-socialized sector and Iead a strictly autarkic existence. (In this latter case there are two systems independently coexisting side by side-a capitalist and a socialist.) Publicly owned enterprises, operating within a system in which there are privatcly owned enterprises and a market, and socialized countries, exchanging goods and services with nonsocialist countries, are integrated into a system of market economy. They are subject to the law of the market and have the opportunity of resorting to economic cal~ulation.~
Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.citation?Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.-Wait a minute now, maybe there is a distinction between fascism/crony capitalism and socialism. Socialism is when government owns business rather than just controlling it. That would lead me to infer that we are not socialist but instead fascist
Crony capitalism is as it's name suggests, capitalists creating favorable conditions for profit generation. It has nothing in common with socialism or fascism, two distinctly different ideologies, and concepts which you have clearly shown to be ignorant of.
Sorry, guy, you don't get to make up your own definition for words
– Ludwig von Mises, Human ActionXXVII. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MARKET I. The Idea of a Third System P RIVATE ownership of the means of production (market economy or capitalism) and public ownership of the means of production (socialism or communism or "planning") can be neatly distinguished. Each of these two systems of society's econonlic organization is open to a precise and unambiguous description and definition. They can never be confounded with one another; they cannot be mixid or combined; no gradual transition leads from one of thcm to the other; their obversion is contradictory. With regard to the same factors of production there can only exist private control or public control. If in the frame of a system of social cooperation only some means of production are subject to public ownership while the rest are controlled by privatc individuals, this does not make for a mixed system combining socialism and private ownership. The system remains a market society, provided the socialized sector does not become entirely separated from the non-socialized sector and Iead a strictly autarkic existence. (In this latter case there are two systems independently coexisting side by side-a capitalist and a socialist.) Publicly owned enterprises, operating within a system in which there are privatcly owned enterprises and a market, and socialized countries, exchanging goods and services with nonsocialist countries, are integrated into a system of market economy. They are subject to the law of the market and have the opportunity of resorting to economic cal~ulation.~
Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.
"The German pattern differs from the Russian one in that it (seemingly and nominally) maintains private ownership of the means of production and keeps the appearance of ordinary prices. There are, however, no longer entrepreneurs but only shop managers(Betriebsfuhrer)...The government tells the shop managers what and how to produce, at what prices and from whom to buy, at what prices and to whom to sell. The government decrees to whom and under what terms the capitalists must entrust their funds and where and at what wages laborers must work...all the prices, wages and interest rates are fixed by the central authority...The government, not the consumers, directs production. This is socialism in the outward guise of capitalism."(15)
He accepts fascism as a necessary evil to contain the spread of European socialism.“So much for the domestic policy of Fascism. That its foreign policy, based as it is on the avowed principle of force in international relations, cannot fail to give rise to an endless series of wars that must destroy all of modern civilization requires no further discussion. To maintain and further raise our present level of economic development, peace among nations must be assured. But they cannot live together in peace if the basic tenet of the ideology by which they are governed is the belief that one's own nation can secure its place in the community of nations by force alone.
It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history. But though its policy has brought salvation for the moment, it is not of the kind which could promise continued success. Fascism was an emergency makeshift. To view it as something more would be a fatal error” (Mises 1978: 51).
He is talking about the realization of socialism in that passage moron.Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.
Sorry, guy, you don't get to make up your own definition for words
– Ludwig von Mises, Human ActionXXVII. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MARKET I. The Idea of a Third System P RIVATE ownership of the means of production (market economy or capitalism) and public ownership of the means of production (socialism or communism or "planning") can be neatly distinguished. Each of these two systems of society's econonlic organization is open to a precise and unambiguous description and definition. They can never be confounded with one another; they cannot be mixid or combined; no gradual transition leads from one of thcm to the other; their obversion is contradictory. With regard to the same factors of production there can only exist private control or public control. If in the frame of a system of social cooperation only some means of production are subject to public ownership while the rest are controlled by privatc individuals, this does not make for a mixed system combining socialism and private ownership. The system remains a market society, provided the socialized sector does not become entirely separated from the non-socialized sector and Iead a strictly autarkic existence. (In this latter case there are two systems independently coexisting side by side-a capitalist and a socialist.) Publicly owned enterprises, operating within a system in which there are privatcly owned enterprises and a market, and socialized countries, exchanging goods and services with nonsocialist countries, are integrated into a system of market economy. They are subject to the law of the market and have the opportunity of resorting to economic cal~ulation.~
Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.citation?Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.
Sorry, guy, you don't get to make up your own definition for words
– Ludwig von Mises, Human ActionXXVII. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MARKET I. The Idea of a Third System P RIVATE ownership of the means of production (market economy or capitalism) and public ownership of the means of production (socialism or communism or "planning") can be neatly distinguished. Each of these two systems of society's econonlic organization is open to a precise and unambiguous description and definition. They can never be confounded with one another; they cannot be mixid or combined; no gradual transition leads from one of thcm to the other; their obversion is contradictory. With regard to the same factors of production there can only exist private control or public control. If in the frame of a system of social cooperation only some means of production are subject to public ownership while the rest are controlled by privatc individuals, this does not make for a mixed system combining socialism and private ownership. The system remains a market society, provided the socialized sector does not become entirely separated from the non-socialized sector and Iead a strictly autarkic existence. (In this latter case there are two systems independently coexisting side by side-a capitalist and a socialist.) Publicly owned enterprises, operating within a system in which there are privatcly owned enterprises and a market, and socialized countries, exchanging goods and services with nonsocialist countries, are integrated into a system of market economy. They are subject to the law of the market and have the opportunity of resorting to economic cal~ulation.~
Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.
"The German pattern differs from the Russian one in that it (seemingly and nominally) maintains private ownership of the means of production and keeps the appearance of ordinary prices. There are, however, no longer entrepreneurs but only shop managers(Betriebsfuhrer)...The government tells the shop managers what and how to produce, at what prices and from whom to buy, at what prices and to whom to sell. The government decrees to whom and under what terms the capitalists must entrust their funds and where and at what wages laborers must work...all the prices, wages and interest rates are fixed by the central authority...The government, not the consumers, directs production. This is socialism in the outward guise of capitalism."(15)
This is what he said about fascism.
He accepts fascism as a necessary evil to contain the spread European socialism.“So much for the domestic policy of Fascism. That its foreign policy, based as it is on the avowed principle of force in international relations, cannot fail to give rise to an endless series of wars that must destroy all of modern civilization requires no further discussion. To maintain and further raise our present level of economic development, peace among nations must be assured. But they cannot live together in peace if the basic tenet of the ideology by which they are governed is the belief that one's own nation can secure its place in the community of nations by force alone.
It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history. But though its policy has brought salvation for the moment, it is not of the kind which could promise continued success. Fascism was an emergency makeshift. To view it as something more would be a fatal error” (Mises 1978: 51).
If fascism was the same as socialism, we'd call it socialism, not fascism.He explained that fascism is just socialism in disguise.
If fascism was the same as socialism, we'd call it socialism, not fascism.He explained that fascism is just socialism in disguise.
Because ... Liberal, Fascist, Progressive, Socialist, Right-Wing, Left-Wing, Centrist, Moderate, Authoritarian, Democratic and so on ... Have all been bastardized by the last two generations of people who think their definition and over-inflated sense of self-importance supersedes any necessity towards actually attempting to understand what the other person is trying to say..
If fascism was the same as socialism, we'd call it socialism, not fascism.He explained that fascism is just socialism in disguise.
No we wouldn't, moron.
There are really only two possible systems: private control or government control. Fascism and socialism are both forms of government control. That's why they both fail.
That is why Capitalism Rocks ... It doesn't care what you want to call it or what you think about it unless the crap gets done.
If fascism was the same as socialism, we'd call it socialism, not fascism.He explained that fascism is just socialism in disguise.
No we wouldn't, moron.
bripat,
There is never a bar too low for you.
How about you list off for us the policies of the Nazis, not Italians or Japanese for now, that were Socialist? For instance, what part of banning abortion and keeping women barefoot and pregnant is socialist?If fascism was the same as socialism, we'd call it socialism, not fascism.He explained that fascism is just socialism in disguise.
No we wouldn't, moron.
The passage that you quoted was from "Omnipotent Government" under the heading "Socialism in Russia and in Germany". He was not discussing fascism, you are making that up.He is talking about the realization of socialism in that passage moron.Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.
– Ludwig von Mises, Human Action
Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.citation?Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.
– Ludwig von Mises, Human Action
Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.
"The German pattern differs from the Russian one in that it (seemingly and nominally) maintains private ownership of the means of production and keeps the appearance of ordinary prices. There are, however, no longer entrepreneurs but only shop managers(Betriebsfuhrer)...The government tells the shop managers what and how to produce, at what prices and from whom to buy, at what prices and to whom to sell. The government decrees to whom and under what terms the capitalists must entrust their funds and where and at what wages laborers must work...all the prices, wages and interest rates are fixed by the central authority...The government, not the consumers, directs production. This is socialism in the outward guise of capitalism."(15)
This is what he said about fascism.
He accepts fascism as a necessary evil to contain the spread European socialism.“So much for the domestic policy of Fascism. That its foreign policy, based as it is on the avowed principle of force in international relations, cannot fail to give rise to an endless series of wars that must destroy all of modern civilization requires no further discussion. To maintain and further raise our present level of economic development, peace among nations must be assured. But they cannot live together in peace if the basic tenet of the ideology by which they are governed is the belief that one's own nation can secure its place in the community of nations by force alone.
It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history. But though its policy has brought salvation for the moment, it is not of the kind which could promise continued success. Fascism was an emergency makeshift. To view it as something more would be a fatal error” (Mises 1978: 51).
He explained that fascism is just socialism in disguise. The rest of the passage didn't change the meaning of what I quoted.
Obviously, you're illiterate.
There are really only two possible systems: private control or government control. Fascism and socialism are both forms of government control. That's why they both fail.
I wouldn't say that, your government system is still in place and doing nicely (if you're a crony capitalist that is). You think it's going to fail soon?
Yet again, not Jews, Zionists...If fascism was the same as socialism, we'd call it socialism, not fascism.He explained that fascism is just socialism in disguise.
No we wouldn't, moron.
bripat,
There is never a bar too low for you.
ROLF! You're actually using that to defend PMH, the guy who admitted that he believes Jews are scum and that he wants them to be eliminated?
