Will The Democrats Finally Admit They Are a Socialist Party?

[rdean]

If Democrats are socialist for wanting Americans to help other Americans, what do you call the "let him die" and "feed the poor and they will breed" Republicans? Fascists? Plutocrats? Evil?

 

[bripat9643]

He explained that fascism is just socialism in disguise. The rest of the passage didn't change the meaning of what I quoted.

Obviously, you're illiterate.

The passage that you quoted was from "Omnipotent Government" under the heading "Socialism in Russia and in Germany". He was not discussing fascism, you are making that up.

ROFL! People normally class Nazism as a form of fascism, numskull.

We weren't talking about norms, you were specific in your accusations and you failed to back it up.

Wrong . . . I did back it up. When Mises refers to "the German pattern" he means Nazism, i.e. fascism. He said in very plain language that it's just another form of socialism.

He used the term socialism , there is no ambiguity in that. I presented to you his words pertaining to fascism and there was no ambiguity in those either. He did not use the terms interchangeably.

He used the term "socialism" to refer to German fascism.

End of story.

 

[bripat9643]

Whenever I think of Socialists, I always remember their love of big, happy, white families, just like Adolf...

Socialists always pay you to have four or more children right?

 

[kaz]

-Wait a minute now, maybe there is a distinction between fascism/crony capitalism and socialism. Socialism is when government owns business rather than just controlling it. That would lead me to infer that we are not socialist but instead fascist

Exactly, Holmes. Both parties are fascist.

Crony capitalism is as it's name suggests, capitalists creating favorable conditions for profit generation. It has nothing in common with socialism or fascism, two distinctly different ideologies, and concepts which you have clearly shown to be ignorant of.

Sorry, guy, you don't get to make up your own definition for words

Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.

XXVII. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MARKET I. The Idea of a Third System P RIVATE ownership of the means of production (market economy or capitalism) and public ownership of the means of production (socialism or communism or "planning") can be neatly distinguished. Each of these two systems of society's econonlic organization is open to a precise and unambiguous description and definition. They can never be confounded with one another; they cannot be mixid or combined; no gradual transition leads from one of thcm to the other; their obversion is contradictory. With regard to the same factors of production there can only exist private control or public control. If in the frame of a system of social cooperation only some means of production are subject to public ownership while the rest are controlled by privatc individuals, this does not make for a mixed system combining socialism and private ownership. The system remains a market society, provided the socialized sector does not become entirely separated from the non-socialized sector and Iead a strictly autarkic existence. (In this latter case there are two systems independently coexisting side by side-a capitalist and a socialist.) Publicly owned enterprises, operating within a system in which there are privatcly owned enterprises and a market, and socialized countries, exchanging goods and services with nonsocialist countries, are integrated into a system of market economy. They are subject to the law of the market and have the opportunity of resorting to economic cal~ulation.~

– Ludwig von Mises, Human Action

Fascism is government control over the economy, that's what both parties strive for, Holmes. That is zero redefinition. And you just don't know what capitalism is at all

 

[kaz]

-Wait a minute now, maybe there is a distinction between fascism/crony capitalism and socialism. Socialism is when government owns business rather than just controlling it. That would lead me to infer that we are not socialist but instead fascist

Exactly, Holmes. Both parties are fascist.

Crony capitalism is as it's name suggests, capitalists creating favorable conditions for profit generation. It has nothing in common with socialism or fascism, two distinctly different ideologies, and concepts which you have clearly shown to be ignorant of.

Sorry, guy, you don't get to make up your own definition for words

Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.

XXVII. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MARKET I. The Idea of a Third System P RIVATE ownership of the means of production (market economy or capitalism) and public ownership of the means of production (socialism or communism or "planning") can be neatly distinguished. Each of these two systems of society's econonlic organization is open to a precise and unambiguous description and definition. They can never be confounded with one another; they cannot be mixid or combined; no gradual transition leads from one of thcm to the other; their obversion is contradictory. With regard to the same factors of production there can only exist private control or public control. If in the frame of a system of social cooperation only some means of production are subject to public ownership while the rest are controlled by privatc individuals, this does not make for a mixed system combining socialism and private ownership. The system remains a market society, provided the socialized sector does not become entirely separated from the non-socialized sector and Iead a strictly autarkic existence. (In this latter case there are two systems independently coexisting side by side-a capitalist and a socialist.) Publicly owned enterprises, operating within a system in which there are privatcly owned enterprises and a market, and socialized countries, exchanging goods and services with nonsocialist countries, are integrated into a system of market economy. They are subject to the law of the market and have the opportunity of resorting to economic cal~ulation.~

– Ludwig von Mises, Human Action

Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.

-Wait a minute now, maybe there is a distinction between fascism/crony capitalism and socialism. Socialism is when government owns business rather than just controlling it. That would lead me to infer that we are not socialist but instead fascist

Exactly, Holmes. Both parties are fascist.

Crony capitalism is as it's name suggests, capitalists creating favorable conditions for profit generation. It has nothing in common with socialism or fascism, two distinctly different ideologies, and concepts which you have clearly shown to be ignorant of.

Sorry, guy, you don't get to make up your own definition for words

Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.

XXVII. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MARKET I. The Idea of a Third System P RIVATE ownership of the means of production (market economy or capitalism) and public ownership of the means of production (socialism or communism or "planning") can be neatly distinguished. Each of these two systems of society's econonlic organization is open to a precise and unambiguous description and definition. They can never be confounded with one another; they cannot be mixid or combined; no gradual transition leads from one of thcm to the other; their obversion is contradictory. With regard to the same factors of production there can only exist private control or public control. If in the frame of a system of social cooperation only some means of production are subject to public ownership while the rest are controlled by privatc individuals, this does not make for a mixed system combining socialism and private ownership. The system remains a market society, provided the socialized sector does not become entirely separated from the non-socialized sector and Iead a strictly autarkic existence. (In this latter case there are two systems independently coexisting side by side-a capitalist and a socialist.) Publicly owned enterprises, operating within a system in which there are privatcly owned enterprises and a market, and socialized countries, exchanging goods and services with nonsocialist countries, are integrated into a system of market economy. They are subject to the law of the market and have the opportunity of resorting to economic cal~ulation.~

– Ludwig von Mises, Human Action

Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.

citation?

Now that's funny, you don't know what Nazi stands for.

It's an acronym for National Socialist Workers Party. I can't believe you asked that, it's hilarious

 

[Jantje_Smit]

Well if you need government to do the job ... I am not going to argue with that.
I mean why argue with Santa Clause ... Just wait by the fireplace for Ole St. Nick to come rolling down the chimney with a bag of toys for all the good little boys and girls in the world.

But ... That isn't what I posted ... And doesn't address "their goals" (in reference to Capitalism).
My point is whether or not Capitalism can accomplish "their goals" and how it would be more productive and efficient if and when Capitalists adjust "their goals" to meet greater needs.

It is really kind of funny when people bitch about Capitalists ... Because of what they can actually accomplish.



.

We're going around in a circle, what do capitalists actually accomplish?

 

[BlackSand]

We're going around in a circle, what do capitalists actually accomplish?

Uh ... Well then I guess we can stop going in circles ... If Capitalist cannot accomplish anything ... Then you don't have anything to bitch about.
See how easy that is ... Either they do or they don't ... Your opinion of whatever they may or may not accomplish doesn't change that.

.

 

[bripat9643]

If Democrats are socialist for wanting Americans to help other Americans, what do you call the "let him die" and "feed the poor and they will breed" Republicans? Fascists? Plutocrats? Evil?

However you want to smear Republicans, the fact remains the Democrats are socialists.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Whenever I think of Socialists, I always remember their love of big, happy, white families, just like Adolf...

Socialists always pay you to have four or more children right?

Those damn Nazis, they were even right here.

Goddamned Fascists, telliing me what I can and can't eat. Outrageous...

 

[kaz]

Well if you need government to do the job ... I am not going to argue with that.
I mean why argue with Santa Clause ... Just wait by the fireplace for Ole St. Nick to come rolling down the chimney with a bag of toys for all the good little boys and girls in the world.

But ... That isn't what I posted ... And doesn't address "their goals" (in reference to Capitalism).
My point is whether or not Capitalism can accomplish "their goals" and how it would be more productive and efficient if and when Capitalists adjust "their goals" to meet greater needs.

It is really kind of funny when people bitch about Capitalists ... Because of what they can actually accomplish.



.

We're going around in a circle, what do capitalists actually accomplish?

Parasites don't really care what your host does for a living, do you?

 

[Tehon]

-Wait a minute now, maybe there is a distinction between fascism/crony capitalism and socialism. Socialism is when government owns business rather than just controlling it. That would lead me to infer that we are not socialist but instead fascist

Exactly, Holmes. Both parties are fascist.

Crony capitalism is as it's name suggests, capitalists creating favorable conditions for profit generation. It has nothing in common with socialism or fascism, two distinctly different ideologies, and concepts which you have clearly shown to be ignorant of.

Sorry, guy, you don't get to make up your own definition for words

Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.

XXVII. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MARKET I. The Idea of a Third System P RIVATE ownership of the means of production (market economy or capitalism) and public ownership of the means of production (socialism or communism or "planning") can be neatly distinguished. Each of these two systems of society's econonlic organization is open to a precise and unambiguous description and definition. They can never be confounded with one another; they cannot be mixid or combined; no gradual transition leads from one of thcm to the other; their obversion is contradictory. With regard to the same factors of production there can only exist private control or public control. If in the frame of a system of social cooperation only some means of production are subject to public ownership while the rest are controlled by privatc individuals, this does not make for a mixed system combining socialism and private ownership. The system remains a market society, provided the socialized sector does not become entirely separated from the non-socialized sector and Iead a strictly autarkic existence. (In this latter case there are two systems independently coexisting side by side-a capitalist and a socialist.) Publicly owned enterprises, operating within a system in which there are privatcly owned enterprises and a market, and socialized countries, exchanging goods and services with nonsocialist countries, are integrated into a system of market economy. They are subject to the law of the market and have the opportunity of resorting to economic cal~ulation.~

– Ludwig von Mises, Human Action

Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.

-Wait a minute now, maybe there is a distinction between fascism/crony capitalism and socialism. Socialism is when government owns business rather than just controlling it. That would lead me to infer that we are not socialist but instead fascist

Exactly, Holmes. Both parties are fascist.

Crony capitalism is as it's name suggests, capitalists creating favorable conditions for profit generation. It has nothing in common with socialism or fascism, two distinctly different ideologies, and concepts which you have clearly shown to be ignorant of.

Sorry, guy, you don't get to make up your own definition for words

Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.

XXVII. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MARKET I. The Idea of a Third System P RIVATE ownership of the means of production (market economy or capitalism) and public ownership of the means of production (socialism or communism or "planning") can be neatly distinguished. Each of these two systems of society's econonlic organization is open to a precise and unambiguous description and definition. They can never be confounded with one another; they cannot be mixid or combined; no gradual transition leads from one of thcm to the other; their obversion is contradictory. With regard to the same factors of production there can only exist private control or public control. If in the frame of a system of social cooperation only some means of production are subject to public ownership while the rest are controlled by privatc individuals, this does not make for a mixed system combining socialism and private ownership. The system remains a market society, provided the socialized sector does not become entirely separated from the non-socialized sector and Iead a strictly autarkic existence. (In this latter case there are two systems independently coexisting side by side-a capitalist and a socialist.) Publicly owned enterprises, operating within a system in which there are privatcly owned enterprises and a market, and socialized countries, exchanging goods and services with nonsocialist countries, are integrated into a system of market economy. They are subject to the law of the market and have the opportunity of resorting to economic cal~ulation.~

– Ludwig von Mises, Human Action

Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.

citation?

Now that's funny, you don't know what Nazi stands for.

It's an acronym for National Socialist Workers Party. I can't believe you asked that, it's hilarious

Are you really that stupid or just being disingenuous?

 

[bripat9643]

We're going around in a circle, what do capitalists actually accomplish?

Uh ... Well then I guess we can stop going in circles ... If Capitalist cannot accomplish anything ... Then you don't have anything to bitch about.
See how easy that is ... Either they do or they don't ... Your opinion of whatever they may or may not accomplish doesn't change that.

.

What have capitalists actually accomplished?

Telephone
Telegraph
Radio
Railroad
automobile
television
computers
cell phones
electric lights
electric motors
refrigeration
air conditioning
Open heart surgery
anaesthesia
tractor
combine
chemical fertilizers
Pesticides
DDT
Cheap cotton textiles
explosives
reinforced concrete
cheap mass produced steel
The assembly line
robots
The highest standard of living in the world
The end of mass starvation.

 

[Jantje_Smit]

Now that's funny, you don't know what Nazi stands for.

It's an acronym for National Socialist Workers Party. I can't believe you asked that, it's hilarious

Indeed, almost as funny as Saddam's republican guard

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Now that's funny, you don't know what Nazi stands for.

It's an acronym for National Socialist Workers Party. I can't believe you asked that, it's hilarious

Indeed, almost as funny as Saddam's republican guard

And this: Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea of course)

And Bripat, I keep having this problem when I try to see if Socialism and Fascism are the same they keep saying they are different? Can you clear that up for us:

"Caveat: There are some inherent pitfalls trying to offer simple, bite sized definitions of capitalism, socialism, communism and fascism – the first being that these are complex concepts concerning both economics and government, so short definitions will be incomplete; the second being that these concepts are not always mutually exclusive (most modern states combine elements of more than one); the third being that historical states defined the terms differently; and finally, some of the terms refer strictly to economic systems (capitalism) while others (fascism) also refer to government and economic systems (communism and fascism).

For a point of reference, the United States is a Constitutional Democratic Republic that has long embraced both capitalism (free markets) and socialism (public schools and universities, and public works – parks, roads and highways, sewer and water, dams, harbors, as well as social welfare, such as worker’s comp, unemployment insurance, social security etc.)."
Capitalism

 

[kaz]

Exactly, Holmes. Both parties are fascist.




Sorry, guy, you don't get to make up your own definition for words

Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.

XXVII. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MARKET I. The Idea of a Third System P RIVATE ownership of the means of production (market economy or capitalism) and public ownership of the means of production (socialism or communism or "planning") can be neatly distinguished. Each of these two systems of society's econonlic organization is open to a precise and unambiguous description and definition. They can never be confounded with one another; they cannot be mixid or combined; no gradual transition leads from one of thcm to the other; their obversion is contradictory. With regard to the same factors of production there can only exist private control or public control. If in the frame of a system of social cooperation only some means of production are subject to public ownership while the rest are controlled by privatc individuals, this does not make for a mixed system combining socialism and private ownership. The system remains a market society, provided the socialized sector does not become entirely separated from the non-socialized sector and Iead a strictly autarkic existence. (In this latter case there are two systems independently coexisting side by side-a capitalist and a socialist.) Publicly owned enterprises, operating within a system in which there are privatcly owned enterprises and a market, and socialized countries, exchanging goods and services with nonsocialist countries, are integrated into a system of market economy. They are subject to the law of the market and have the opportunity of resorting to economic cal~ulation.~

– Ludwig von Mises, Human Action

Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.

Exactly, Holmes. Both parties are fascist.




Sorry, guy, you don't get to make up your own definition for words

Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.

XXVII. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MARKET I. The Idea of a Third System P RIVATE ownership of the means of production (market economy or capitalism) and public ownership of the means of production (socialism or communism or "planning") can be neatly distinguished. Each of these two systems of society's econonlic organization is open to a precise and unambiguous description and definition. They can never be confounded with one another; they cannot be mixid or combined; no gradual transition leads from one of thcm to the other; their obversion is contradictory. With regard to the same factors of production there can only exist private control or public control. If in the frame of a system of social cooperation only some means of production are subject to public ownership while the rest are controlled by privatc individuals, this does not make for a mixed system combining socialism and private ownership. The system remains a market society, provided the socialized sector does not become entirely separated from the non-socialized sector and Iead a strictly autarkic existence. (In this latter case there are two systems independently coexisting side by side-a capitalist and a socialist.) Publicly owned enterprises, operating within a system in which there are privatcly owned enterprises and a market, and socialized countries, exchanging goods and services with nonsocialist countries, are integrated into a system of market economy. They are subject to the law of the market and have the opportunity of resorting to economic cal~ulation.~

– Ludwig von Mises, Human Action

Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.

citation?

Now that's funny, you don't know what Nazi stands for.

It's an acronym for National Socialist Workers Party. I can't believe you asked that, it's hilarious

Are you really that stupid or just being disingenuous?

Seriously dude, you are on the Internet. That you couldn't look up Nazi yourself was pathetic, but then when I told you, you call me stupid and/or a liar. Here you go, dumb ass

What does Nazi mean in German - Quora

The fullname of the political party was the "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" - the National Socialist German Worker's Party.

 

[kaz]

Now that's funny, you don't know what Nazi stands for.

It's an acronym for National Socialist Workers Party. I can't believe you asked that, it's hilarious

Indeed, almost as funny as Saddam's republican guard

You don't know what republican means any more than you know what capitalism is

 

[Tehon]

Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.
– Ludwig von Mises, Human Action

Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.

Redefining words seems to be your talent. I'm using historical definitions for words, you are redefining them to suit your agenda.
– Ludwig von Mises, Human Action

Mises said fascism is a form of socialism.

citation?

Now that's funny, you don't know what Nazi stands for.

It's an acronym for National Socialist Workers Party. I can't believe you asked that, it's hilarious

Are you really that stupid or just being disingenuous?

Seriously dude, you are on the Internet. That you couldn't look up Nazi yourself was pathetic, but then when I told you, you call me stupid and/or a liar. Here you go, dumb ass

What does Nazi mean in German - Quora

The fullname of the political party was the "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" - the National Socialist German Worker's Party.

Highlight where I asked what Nazi stands for.

 

[Jantje_Smit]

Uh ... Well then I guess we can stop going in circles ... If Capitalist cannot accomplish anything ... Then you don't have anything to bitch about.
See how easy that is ... Either they do or they don't ... Your opinion of whatever they may or may not accomplish doesn't change that..

Very weak comrade, you start by assuring me that capitalists are better at "accomplishing crap".

I ask you what crap they accomplish

And now you're telling me my opinion of whatever they may or may not accomplish doesn't change that

Talking about crap.......

 

[Jantje_Smit]

What have capitalists actually accomplished?

Telephone
Telegraph
Radio
Railroad
automobile
television
computers
cell phones
electric lights
electric motors
refrigeration
air conditioning
Open heart surgery
anaesthesia
tractor
combine
chemical fertilizers
Pesticides
DDT
Cheap cotton textiles
explosives
reinforced concrete
cheap mass produced steel
The assembly line
robots
The highest standard of living in the world
The end of mass starvation.

Thanks for an answer at last.

I'm not sure if we should be so glad with all those items though but that's another issue

I notice that there aren't any socialist programs on that list so maybe evil government is required after all to accomplish that

 

[Jantje_Smit]

You don't know what republican means any more than you know what capitalism is

And you don't know what socialism means