Will The Democrats Finally Admit They Are a Socialist Party?

[David_42]

The framers were liberal, did they suggest we go back with England or as super-conservative General MacArthur said: "For the frames were the most liberal thinkers of all the ages and the charter they produced out of the liberal revolution of their times has never been and is not now surpassed in liberal thought."

118th Century liberal bore no resemblance to modern liberals. The were as different as oil and water.

118th century? Calm down man.

 

[bripat9643]

The framers were liberal, did they suggest we go back with England or as super-conservative General MacArthur said: "For the frames were the most liberal thinkers of all the ages and the charter they produced out of the liberal revolution of their times has never been and is not now surpassed in liberal thought."

118th Century liberal bore no resemblance to modern liberals. The were as different as oil and water.

118th century? Calm down man.

Oh puhleeze.

 

[regent]

The framers were liberal, did they suggest we go back with England or as super-conservative General MacArthur said: "For the frames were the most liberal thinkers of all the ages and the charter they produced out of the liberal revolution of their times has never been and is not now surpassed in liberal thought."

118th Century liberal bore no resemblance to modern liberals. The were as different as oil and water.

There are core beliefs that go with political ideologies, those do not change. The core beliefs are the basis of liberal and conservatism. The means or methods to achieve those core beliefs do change however. For example, role of government was often seen as evil by liberals when the the role of government was to help the elite, royal, noble and moneyed class. When the liberals became the government, however, and government could be used to help the poor and common folk the liberal view of government changed.
This change can almost be traced beginning with Jefferson's election, how he raged against government and its size, and then when Jefferson became the government America bought the Louisiana territory and government and the nation began to grow larger. As a nation we continue becoming more and more liberal.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Pure capitalism doesn't fuck anyone over. I have yet to see anyone in here post an example of capitalism "fucking someone over."......

I know it was't really covered in the news but I think you missed something comrade

Not clear on what this is an argument supporting or contradicting.

 

[bripat9643]

The framers were liberal, did they suggest we go back with England or as super-conservative General MacArthur said: "For the frames were the most liberal thinkers of all the ages and the charter they produced out of the liberal revolution of their times has never been and is not now surpassed in liberal thought."

118th Century liberal bore no resemblance to modern liberals. The were as different as oil and water.

There are core beliefs that go with political ideologies, those do not change. The core beliefs are the basis of liberal and conservatism. The means or methods to achieve those core beliefs do change however. For example, role of government was often seen as evil by liberals when the the role of government was to help the elite, royal, noble and moneyed class. When the liberals became the government, however, and government could be used to help the poor and common folk the liberal view of government changed.
This change can almost be traced beginning with Jefferson's election, how he raged against government and its size, and then when Jefferson became the government America bought the Louisiana territory and government and the nation began to grow larger. As a nation we continue becoming more and more liberal.

Nope. Liberals didn't change their core beliefs about government. However, people who worship government started calling them conservatives, precisely because they refused to change their beliefs. The people who worship government now call themselves "liberals/progressives," even though they are anything but. The are hard cold Stalinists who despise individual liberty, private property and free exchange.

 

[HenryBHough]

Before the Democrats can get over the delusion of being any sort of "party" they're going to have to come to grips with the fact that they are not Gods.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Before the Democrats can get over the delusion of being any sort of "party" they're going to have to come to grips with the fact that they are not Gods.

Here, close enough for government work...

 

[Cecilie1200]

People starve in socialist countries. They don't starve in capitalist countries.

Indeed, because all those nice capitalists make sure to leave some food in the garbage cans

Under socialism people can't afford garbage cans.

Every country has a mix of socialism and capitalism, the socialism mix came about due to capitalism failing on its own.

No, the socialism came about due to the failure of small-minded fools like you to trust other humans.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Socialist government programs is the reason they're poor in the first place.

Very funny, you're advocating child labor because socialist programs that would prevent that will make them poor.

Socialism doesn't prevent starvation. It causes starvation.

Oh no. Food stamps, Medicaid, meals on wheels.. EVIL SOCIALISM.

Fascinating how you list such things as though they're universally accepted and applauded.

By the way, Mensa Boy, I believe Meals on Wheels is a charity, not a government program.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Where children work it's because starvation is the alternative.

They wouldn't have to starve if there were some evil socialist programs in place

Socialist government programs is the reason they're poor in the first place. When China abandoned communism it lifted 400 million people out of the lowest class of poverty.

People starve in socialist countries. They don't starve in capitalist countries.

Err, I'm pretty sure Somalia is a capitalist country. Unless your definition of capitalism involves sucking friedmans dick.

You appear to be pretty sure about a lot of things that bear no resemblance to reality, so why should this be different?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Err, I'm pretty sure Somalia is a capitalist country. Unless your definition of capitalism involves sucking friedmans dick.

Somalia is Ayn Rand paradise, no government, no rules, no taxes, everybody has a gun, those with the biggest guns steal whatever they want..... a capitalist wet dream.

I'm just speechless with fascination at your belief that you actually know something real about the world and economics. The ignorance is breathtaking.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Err, I'm pretty sure Somalia is a capitalist country. Unless your definition of capitalism involves sucking friedmans dick.

Somalia is Ayn Rand paradise, no government, no rules, no taxes, everybody has a gun, those with the biggest guns steal whatever they want..... a capitalist wet dream.

Apparently that's cronyism. LOL. It really says something about the logic of capitalists.

We'll be happy to excuse you two to go somewhere private and pump each other. It's a bit tacky to do it right out in public like this, you see.

 

[Cecilie1200]

naaa, they prefer to LIE to their base of voters

They don't have to lie ... increasingly Dem voters are also card-carrying socialists who say silly things like "Social Security and fire departments are pure socialism."
Ya just can't fix stupid.

Social security is socialism. Did you mean to say the roads and fire departments? They love saying roads are socialism

Leftists have a hard time distinguishing between socialism and proper government function, because they have the same "all or nothing, black or white" mindset as most children.

"Social Security and fire departments are pure socialism" would be silly, too, since it equates Social Security and fire departments.

 

[Cecilie1200]

naaa, they prefer to LIE to their base of voters

They don't have to lie ... increasingly Dem voters are also card-carrying socialists who say silly things like "Social Security and fire departments are pure socialism."
Ya just can't fix stupid.

Social security is socialism. Did you mean to say the roads and fire departments? They love saying roads are socialism

SS is gov't retirement insurance with benefits paid for by a specific tax.

SS is pure tax and redistribute socialism. Stop reading the marketing literature and pay attention to how it actually works.

1) The more you pay in the less you proportionally get back

2) People who never put anything in get lots back

3) Nothing is ever saved, the money is spent as it comes into the treasury. Later the government just taxes your children and give you their money

That's how insurance works. You don't always get to use it and some get more than others. SS is just public rather than private insurance.

Let's put it this way: it's not appropriate for the federal government to be insuring retirement, even if it worked like you think it does. Therefore, it is socialism.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's crony capitalism, which is a form of socialism, not capitalism, Holmes

Not really Watson, that's actually fascism

"Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini

Fascism and Crony capitalism are essentially the same thing, Holmes. Industry is technically in private hands, but the market is controlled by government. Both of them are forms of socialism.

Capitalism is economic freedom. That government controls free markets is an oxymoron

Crony capitalism is not fascism and it is not socialism..... it is capitalism. Is it really that difficult to accept that capitalism is just an imperfect economic system that possesses the ability to be abused.

Capitalism is economic freedom.

And this is just rhetoric.

Everything possesses the ability to be abused. Doesn't make "crony capitalism" into actual capitalism. Socialism, as opposed to capitalism, issues an engraved invitation to abuse AND severely limits the ability of the abused to escape.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's crony capitalism, which is a form of socialism, not capitalism, Holmes

Not really Watson, that's actually fascism

"Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini

Fascism and Crony capitalism are essentially the same thing, Holmes. Industry is technically in private hands, but the market is controlled by government. Both of them are forms of socialism.

Capitalism is economic freedom. That government controls free markets is an oxymoron

Crony capitalism is not fascism and it is not socialism..... it is capitalism. Is it really that difficult to accept that capitalism is just an imperfect economic system that possesses the ability to be abused.

Capitalism is economic freedom.

And this is just rhetoric.

Government picking market winners is a free marketplace. That's just stupid

You say that like leftists know the meanings of words, or even acknowledge the fact that words HAVE actual meanings.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's crony capitalism, which is a form of socialism, not capitalism, Holmes

Not really Watson, that's actually fascism

"Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini

Fascism and Crony capitalism are essentially the same thing, Holmes. Industry is technically in private hands, but the market is controlled by government. Both of them are forms of socialism.

Capitalism is economic freedom. That government controls free markets is an oxymoron

Crony capitalism is not fascism and it is not socialism..... it is capitalism. Is it really that difficult to accept that capitalism is just an imperfect economic system that possesses the ability to be abused.

Capitalism is economic freedom.

And this is just rhetoric.

Government picking market winners is a free marketplace. That's just stupid

Did I say that? Capitalism is not synonymous with free market.

Well, it is to people with dictionaries. I guess to people who think words mean whatever the fuck they want them to at the moment, it wouldn't.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's funny how turds like you never blame politicians for government corruption. Who approved the bailouts?

That would be your beloved idiot in chief, Bu$h, and Obama too of course.

You think it's a coincidence that those some banksters that got bailed out also donate $billions to get those same politicians selected? Or doesn't that compute in your alternative reality?

It's not a coincidence at all. Corruption is an intrinsic feature of government.

True. Corruption is an intrinsic feature of power, and government concentrates a hell of a lot of power in one place.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I am for civilization!!!! Civilization has government!


Taxes to build infrastructure, invest in science and r&d, and give our children education!!!! Anyone that is against these are like the Taliban.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Did I say that? Capitalism is not synonymous with free market.

No you didn't say that because that would be correct and you don't know what capitalism is. Capitalism is when businesses, employees, consumers, suppliers all work out their own best deal. It is distributed decision making. Socialism is central decision making, which can only be done by government because only government can use force to compel market players to act against their own best interest. Fascism and crony capitalism are variations of socialism, the government picks market winners rather than the market

Capitalism is a means of production that is privately held. In your example centralized decision making would constitute state capitalism not socialism which is the common ownership of the means of production.

You seem to think capitalists work independent of government. How naive.

The purer the capitalism, the less government involvement there is. Not real hard to figure out, for a person who actually speaks and understands English.

I can see where it's giving YOU trouble, under those circumstances.

There's no such thing as "state capitalism", Brain Trust. By definition - you know, those things you don't believe words have - such a thing is impossible, an oxymoron (no, that's not an insult you hurl at someone you don't like. Look it up).

The only way the government can centralize decision making is if it owns the means of production outright, or controls it with so much legislation and regulation as to make the technical ownership irrelevant. That would be what's known as "socialism", not capitalism in any way, shape, or form.

Buy a dictionary. Seriously.