Windmills Are Chopping Up California's Golden Eagles

[Old Rocks]

Like I said.

You guys have no fucking clue about innovation.

No, they do not. They wish to see everything fail but fossil fuels. It is somehow an ideological point that we must burn coal and oil.

The blades could quite easily be fitted with a noise device, one that has wavelenghts above human hearing, that would warn off the raptors, regular birds, and bats. An engineering problem, nothing more.

Unfortunately, the most cost effective, cleanest and available source of energy continues to be derived from petroleum and coal. I don't see the point of using sources of energy that make no sense and are heinously expensive, when we have sources that can provide us with money, jobs, and cheap energy available to us.

Comparative electrical generation costs - SourceWatch


On May 13, 2008, the California Energy Commission and the California Public Utilities Commission released a comparison of the costs of of new generating capacity from various sources. The analysis for the comparison was prepared by Energy and Environmental Economics, Inc., a consulting firm that prepares studies for utilities, governmental regulators, law firms, and non-profit agencies.[1] These estimates include firming resource costs.

Busbar cost in cents per kilowatt-hour in 2008 dollars:

Coal:

Coal Supercritical: 10.554
Coal Integrated Gasification Combined Cycle (IGCC): 11.481
Coal IGCC with Carbon Capture & Storage (IGCC with CCS): 17.317
Alternatives:

Biogas: 8.552
Wind: 8.910
Gas Combined Cycle: 9.382 (assumes $5.50 to $6.50/MMBtu for gas)
Geothermal: 10.182
Hydroelectric: 10.527
Concentrating solar thermal (CSP): 12.653
Nuclear: 15.316
Biomass: 16.485

 

[Mr. H.]

No, they do not. They wish to see everything fail but fossil fuels. It is somehow an ideological point that we must burn coal and oil.

Fossil fuels butter my bread, and nothing like this could be farther from da troot.
Maybe I'm an exception.

We've got 10 million barrels/day of imports to erase. Bring it on. But NOT at the expense of the domestic oil and gas industries.

True. I have not seen that attitude in your posts. And the domestic oil industry will not be shut down if we completely switch to electrical and bio-fuels for transportation. Petroleum is a major feedstock for manufacturing materials and will continue to be. Natural gas, where the recovery of it does not damage aquifers, will continue. It too has many other uses rather than just as fuel for electrical generators.

And many of those drill rigs now used for oil will be used for deep geothermal wells. Yes, some will lose, and some will gain. But we are all going to lose for a while, because of the effect of the present GHGs, and the longer we put off addressing the effects, the worse the effects will be. With a 30 to 50 year lag.

At least you're being reservedly conciliatory.

BTW- one more, then I'll knock it off.

 

[Old Rocks]

Still waiting for the evidence that air and solar energy is cheaper and more effective. Please hurry, it's getting late and I need to pick out a movie....

I said wind for now. But solar will soon be. And a great deal of that will be manufactured right here in Portland, Oregon. And, as geothermal is developed, that too will be cheaper than dirty coal. And no land destroyed to create the energy.

 

[AllieBaba]

"SourceWatch (formerly Disinfopedia) is an internet wiki site that is a collaborative project of the liberal[1] Center for Media and Democracy (CMD). "

You're kidding, right?

 

[AllieBaba]

Still waiting for the evidence that air and solar energy is cheaper and more effective. Please hurry, it's getting late and I need to pick out a movie....

I said wind for now. But solar will soon be. And a great deal of that will be manufactured right here in Portland, Oregon. And, as geothermal is developed, that too will be cheaper than dirty coal. And no land destroyed to create the energy.

Spare me, I have them all around me. I can't drive anywhere in 3 directions without driving through them for miles and miles.

I honestly don't understand why people think we need a different energy system. The one we have..had....worked just fine until yahoos decided it works too well, and the industry needs to come down because of it. Never mind that people freeze to death because they can't afford their heating bills, never mind that people get put out of work....it's all about arrogance, and the supposition that if something works, it must be wrong, and certainly we can come up with something BETTER. The idea becomes more important than the people it's supposed to benefit, and the people suffer because of it.

 

[Old Rocks]

OK, here is another source with nearly the same information, page 23.

http://cas.umkc.edu/econ/_researchCommunity/studies/Which Way Forward.pdf

 

[Old Rocks]

Still waiting for the evidence that air and solar energy is cheaper and more effective. Please hurry, it's getting late and I need to pick out a movie....

I said wind for now. But solar will soon be. And a great deal of that will be manufactured right here in Portland, Oregon. And, as geothermal is developed, that too will be cheaper than dirty coal. And no land destroyed to create the energy.

Spare me, I have them all around me. I can't drive anywhere in 3 directions without driving through them for miles and miles.

I honestly don't understand why people think we need a different energy system. The one we have..had....worked just fine until yahoos decided it works too well, and the industry needs to come down because of it. Never mind that people freeze to death because they can't afford their heating bills, never mind that people get put out of work....it's all about arrogance, and the supposition that if something works, it must be wrong, and certainly we can come up with something BETTER. The idea becomes more important than the people it's supposed to benefit, and the people suffer because of it.

Why sure, worked just fine. Mercury is good for children. And GHGs are good for the environment. Sure, Babbel, sure.

 

[Old Rocks]

Still waiting for the evidence that air and solar energy is cheaper and more effective. Please hurry, it's getting late and I need to pick out a movie....

I said wind for now. But solar will soon be. And a great deal of that will be manufactured right here in Portland, Oregon. And, as geothermal is developed, that too will be cheaper than dirty coal. And no land destroyed to create the energy.

Spare me, I have them all around me. I can't drive anywhere in 3 directions without driving through them for miles and miles.

I honestly don't understand why people think we need a different energy system. The one we have..had....worked just fine until yahoos decided it works too well, and the industry needs to come down because of it. Never mind that people freeze to death because they can't afford their heating bills, never mind that people get put out of work....it's all about arrogance, and the supposition that if something works, it must be wrong, and certainly we can come up with something BETTER. The idea becomes more important than the people it's supposed to benefit, and the people suffer because of it.

You would rather drive though miles and miles of open pit or mountain top removal mining? Smoke from coal generators? What a strange person you are Babbel.

 

[skookerasbil]

Wind power is a joke. Only the hyper-environmental k00ks, fringe in number, make claims of it having any significant impact on solutions to energy needs for America.............


Sunday, September 5, 2010
Is wind power efficient enough?

Is wind power an economically and ecologically acceptable alternative to cheap fossil fuels such as coal? According to some latest reports relying on windmills to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is not only an expensive energy options but is also doing significant damage to the environment. A recent Wall Street Journal column by Robert Bryce says that wind energy will not help to reduce carbon emissions as many energy experts hope it would. This together with some other drawbacks that wind energy has would make wind power use disputable, to say the least.

Is wind power efficient enough? - Interesting energy facts

 

[wirebender]

Politics trumps environmental concerns. They closed down water supply to Ca. farmers for some obscure toad or minnow but they allow eagles to be killed. The left needs the windmill even though it only produces about a high maintenance 2% of energy. If they dump windmills the whole radical environmantal facade comes crashing down and they can't do it under any circumstance.

This particular issue exposes the gross hypocricy of the left. Look back at all the times the left has bemoaned some species or other to the point of allowing human beings to die in order to save it, and now, they stand idly by and watch raptors, bats, and miagratory birds die in incredible numbers and actually try to justify the killing. I cancelled my subscription to autobon a few years back over this very issue. Not a peep from them regarding important birds and bats being killed in the name of an energy source that will never amount to anything.

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[wirebender]

Clue #1: Innovation doesn't come from gov't subsidies.

They don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that the best and brightest aren't working for government. Those working for government are there either for idological reasons or because they weren't talented enough to get real jobs.

 

[wirebender]

Your silly ideology is getting in the way of rational thought there, old boy.

Funny, the two you mention were from the distant past. They were from a time when even liberals believed in American Exceptionalism. Name a few government programs from the more modern eara that even approach the advancement of the two you mention. And try to avoid military programs all together. No one doubts that the military side of the government holds the most brilliant minds and most efficient means of advancement to be found within the government.

 

[wirebender]

Perhaps actually thinking?

The problem of bird strikes with windmills has been known for a very long time. What "innovation" exactly has taken place so far? Simply saying innovation does not make it happen. To date, the only thing that has happened with wind power is that more raptors, bats, and miagratory birds are being killed than ever.

An individual gets federal prison time if he kills an eagle, or any raptor and greens suggest that his sentence wasn't tough enough but a wind farm can kill them by the dozens and all is well and nothing from silence from the left. The hypocricy is stunning.

 

[wirebender]

OK, here is another source with nearly the same information, page 23.

http://cas.umkc.edu/econ/_researchCommunity/studies/Which Way Forward.pdf

Do you read anything other than leftist propaganda? What, are you afraid that you might actually learn something?

 

[wirebender]

Why sure, worked just fine. Mercury is good for children. And GHGs are good for the environment. Sure, Babbel, sure.

Do you put lotion on your hands to prevent chaffing when you wring them hysterically like that?

 

[wirebender]

Comparative electrical generation costs - SourceWatch


On May 13, 2008, the California Energy Commission and the California Public Utilities Commission released a comparison of the costs of of new generating capacity from various sources. The analysis for the comparison was prepared by Energy and Environmental Economics, Inc., a consulting firm that prepares studies for utilities, governmental regulators, law firms, and non-profit agencies.[1] These estimates include firming resource costs.

Busbar cost in cents per kilowatt-hour in 2008 dollars:

Coal:

Coal Supercritical: 10.554
Coal Integrated Gasification Combined Cycle (IGCC): 11.481
Coal IGCC with Carbon Capture & Storage (IGCC with CCS): 17.317
Alternatives:

Biogas: 8.552
Wind: 8.910
Gas Combined Cycle: 9.382 (assumes $5.50 to $6.50/MMBtu for gas)
Geothermal: 10.182
Hydroelectric: 10.527
Concentrating solar thermal (CSP): 12.653
Nuclear: 15.316
Biomass: 16.485

Here are some renewable biased numbers that don't come from a pure propaganda machine.

EIA - Levelized Cost of New Generation Resources in the Annual Energy Outlook 2011

 

[skookerasbil]

Yo Wire.......check the source of the links posted up by Rocks?

Hyper-left radical environmental websites.....................posts it up like it is some kind of unbiased source.

 

[wirebender]

Yo Wire.......check the source of the links posted up by Rocks?

Hyper-left radical environmental websites.....................posts it up like it is some kind of unbiased source.

Yeah, I asked him if he read anything other than leftist propaganda. Youhave to hand it to him though. He is a true believer. He reads nothing but gore/hansen approved dogma and licks the very ground they walk on.

You have to wonder about people like that. It takes all kinds, but some kinds shouldnt reproduce.

 

[editec]

More than the existing bird mortality from power lines?