With only around 500 billionaires in the country

[Ray From Cleveland]

What you don't understand is the big guy never loses.

Raise taxes on corporations, businesses or CEO's, and that loss always gets passed down to the little guy. It may be in form of lowered benefits to employees. It may be in form of increasing the price of the products or services, but it will always be an indirect tax to the little people.

Increase taxes and the Walton's will still have three yachts, it's just that your toaster at Wal-Mart may go up by a buck or two.

Sorry, but that's bull$hit. I thought you free market disciples understood how it worked

The goal of corporations is to maximize profit (=dividend for shareholders), profit is maximized according to supply and demand rules (in theory at least but it works for toasters) so there's a price for toasters that generates the biggest profit on toasters.

Now if those toasters at a selling price of $20 a piece generate1 $billion in profits for the Waltons it doesn't matter for the price of toasters if you tax that $1 billion at 30% or 40%. If the Waltons raise the price of toasters to say $22 a piece they would generate maybe $950 million in profits but still pay 40% in taxes over that so the Waltons would screw themselves by doing so.

In practice however, they would simply buy some politicians for $10 million to block the bill that would raise taxes to 40%, deduct that as business expenses and pay 30% taxes on $998 million in profits.

And that's why the big guys always win

So what happens when the Democrats gain power and raise taxes anyway? Do you suppose the rich will just dig deeper in their pockets to pay it?

We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, so how did all that dirty money help?

One of the reasons companies left this country is because of taxation.

Businesses always make adjustments to keep their bottom line steady. It could be a number of ways, but they are not going to lose one penny. If the market will bear it, they will increase the cost of products and services. If they are already against the ropes on prices, then they relocate to a different state or country.

I don't have any children in school, so when school levy increases come around from time to time, I vote them down. Over here, we pay for our schools through property tax.

If the levy is passed, I have to increase rents on my tenants. I'm not going to take that loss. I need X amount of money coming in from my rents to make this place run. It's not just with taxes, but any expense that's going to cost me a couple hundred dollars or more every year. In the meantime, people who rent in our suburb that have kids in school vote those school taxes in, and think they're not going to have to pay for it. Wrong.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They don't pay more taxes, they pay all the taxes when it comes to income tax. Nearly half of our population pays no income taxes at all in this country.

Because the rich have made it impossible for many to get a good job.

How did they do that?

Did they stop you from going to college? To trade school? Did they stop you from opening up your own business? How did they stop you from getting a good job?

They shipped the jobs to other countries obviously.

Then get another job!

If there were lots of great jobs out there wages wouldn't be stagnant.

Unfortunately we have politicians that are bringing in foreigners to do the work.

Supply and demand in employment works out perfectly if you don't throw monkey wrenches into the system like unions or foreigners. In my field of work, there are thousands of jobs, but Americans won't take them. They'd rather sit at home smoking pot, talking on their Obama phone and eating off of SNAP's cards.

So now employers are hiring foreigners to take these jobs Americans won't. They are good paying jobs that offer a solid career. Close the borders to all foreigners, our pay scale would increase due to the fact that employers need to attract employees.

 

[Brain357]

Because the rich have made it impossible for many to get a good job.

How did they do that?

Did they stop you from going to college? To trade school? Did they stop you from opening up your own business? How did they stop you from getting a good job?

They shipped the jobs to other countries obviously.

Then get another job!

If there were lots of great jobs out there wages wouldn't be stagnant.

Unfortunately we have politicians that are bringing in foreigners to do the work.

Supply and demand in employment works out perfectly if you don't throw monkey wrenches into the system like unions or foreigners. In my field of work, there are thousands of jobs, but Americans won't take them. They'd rather sit at home smoking pot, talking on their Obama phone and eating off of SNAP's cards.

So now employers are hiring foreigners to take these jobs Americans won't. They are good paying jobs that offer a solid career. Close the borders to all foreigners, our pay scale would increase due to the fact that employers need to attract employees.

I'm certain too many immigrants drives wages down a little, but nothing like the rich sending so many jobs to other countries.

Unions are the only reason we have a middle class. Every country with a strong middle class has unions.

What are these great paying jobs you speak of? Again if there were lots of great jobs for people to find wages wouldn't be stagnant.

 

[Brain357]

What you don't understand is the big guy never loses.

Raise taxes on corporations, businesses or CEO's, and that loss always gets passed down to the little guy. It may be in form of lowered benefits to employees. It may be in form of increasing the price of the products or services, but it will always be an indirect tax to the little people.

Increase taxes and the Walton's will still have three yachts, it's just that your toaster at Wal-Mart may go up by a buck or two.

Sorry, but that's bull$hit. I thought you free market disciples understood how it worked

The goal of corporations is to maximize profit (=dividend for shareholders), profit is maximized according to supply and demand rules (in theory at least but it works for toasters) so there's a price for toasters that generates the biggest profit on toasters.

Now if those toasters at a selling price of $20 a piece generate1 $billion in profits for the Waltons it doesn't matter for the price of toasters if you tax that $1 billion at 30% or 40%. If the Waltons raise the price of toasters to say $22 a piece they would generate maybe $950 million in profits but still pay 40% in taxes over that so the Waltons would screw themselves by doing so.

In practice however, they would simply buy some politicians for $10 million to block the bill that would raise taxes to 40%, deduct that as business expenses and pay 30% taxes on $998 million in profits.

And that's why the big guys always win

So what happens when the Democrats gain power and raise taxes anyway? Do you suppose the rich will just dig deeper in their pockets to pay it?

We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, so how did all that dirty money help?

One of the reasons companies left this country is because of taxation.

Businesses always make adjustments to keep their bottom line steady. It could be a number of ways, but they are not going to lose one penny. If the market will bear it, they will increase the cost of products and services. If they are already against the ropes on prices, then they relocate to a different state or country.

I don't have any children in school, so when school levy increases come around from time to time, I vote them down. Over here, we pay for our schools through property tax.

If the levy is passed, I have to increase rents on my tenants. I'm not going to take that loss. I need X amount of money coming in from my rents to make this place run. It's not just with taxes, but any expense that's going to cost me a couple hundred dollars or more every year. In the meantime, people who rent in our suburb that have kids in school vote those school taxes in, and think they're not going to have to pay for it. Wrong.

Highest corporate taxes? Really? Stop playing the fool.
Forget Inversions, These 20 Huge, Profitable Companies Already Pay Zero Tax

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How did they do that?

Did they stop you from going to college? To trade school? Did they stop you from opening up your own business? How did they stop you from getting a good job?

They shipped the jobs to other countries obviously.

Then get another job!

If there were lots of great jobs out there wages wouldn't be stagnant.

Unfortunately we have politicians that are bringing in foreigners to do the work.

Supply and demand in employment works out perfectly if you don't throw monkey wrenches into the system like unions or foreigners. In my field of work, there are thousands of jobs, but Americans won't take them. They'd rather sit at home smoking pot, talking on their Obama phone and eating off of SNAP's cards.

So now employers are hiring foreigners to take these jobs Americans won't. They are good paying jobs that offer a solid career. Close the borders to all foreigners, our pay scale would increase due to the fact that employers need to attract employees.

I'm certain too many immigrants drives wages down a little, but nothing like the rich sending so many jobs to other countries.

Unions are the only reason we have a middle class. Every country with a strong middle class has unions.

What are these great paying jobs you speak of? Again if there were lots of great jobs for people to find wages wouldn't be stagnant.

Transportartion. Look around. Go to Craigslist and take a look for yourself. You'll find hundreds of jobs that nobody will take. Some companies are so hurting for drivers they will not only train you, but pay you while you learn.

You can see the country for free while making a decent wage. In many cases you can even make your own hours. You can drive during the day or drive during the night. You can move anywhere in the country you desire and be assured there will always be someplace to work.

Besides that, I go through a lot of business parks. These industrial areas are loaded with HELP WANTED signs on their lawns. Go back a few weeks later, those signs are still there.

A few years ago my father told me of how bad they need bricklayers in this area. They were so desperate that they sent newsletters to their retirees such as my father to find people to enter the trade. Granted, it's tough work, but the pay is outstanding and you get all winter off while staying on unemployment. My father made a great life for himself as a bricklayer. They couldn't find anybody willing to learn the trade that could pass a drug test.

 

[Brain357]

They shipped the jobs to other countries obviously.

Then get another job!

If there were lots of great jobs out there wages wouldn't be stagnant.

Unfortunately we have politicians that are bringing in foreigners to do the work.

Supply and demand in employment works out perfectly if you don't throw monkey wrenches into the system like unions or foreigners. In my field of work, there are thousands of jobs, but Americans won't take them. They'd rather sit at home smoking pot, talking on their Obama phone and eating off of SNAP's cards.

So now employers are hiring foreigners to take these jobs Americans won't. They are good paying jobs that offer a solid career. Close the borders to all foreigners, our pay scale would increase due to the fact that employers need to attract employees.

I'm certain too many immigrants drives wages down a little, but nothing like the rich sending so many jobs to other countries.

Unions are the only reason we have a middle class. Every country with a strong middle class has unions.

What are these great paying jobs you speak of? Again if there were lots of great jobs for people to find wages wouldn't be stagnant.

Transportartion. Look around. Go to Craigslist and take a look for yourself. You'll find hundreds of jobs that nobody will take. Some companies are so hurting for drivers they will not only train you, but pay you while you learn.

You can see the country for free while making a decent wage. In many cases you can even make your own hours. You can drive during the day or drive during the night. You can move anywhere in the country you desire and be assured there will always be someplace to work.

Besides that, I go through a lot of business parks. These industrial areas are loaded with HELP WANTED signs on their lawns. Go back a few weeks later, those signs are still there.

A few years ago my father told me of how bad they need bricklayers in this area. They were so desperate that they sent newsletters to their retirees such as my father to find people to enter the trade. Granted, it's tough work, but the pay is outstanding and you get all winter off while staying on unemployment. My father made a great life for himself as a bricklayer. They couldn't find anybody willing to learn the trade that could pass a drug test.

If there were lots of jobs out there in need of filling, wages would go up. Wages are stagnant. There may be small pockets of jobs out there, but they are rare.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Then get another job!

If there were lots of great jobs out there wages wouldn't be stagnant.

Unfortunately we have politicians that are bringing in foreigners to do the work.

Supply and demand in employment works out perfectly if you don't throw monkey wrenches into the system like unions or foreigners. In my field of work, there are thousands of jobs, but Americans won't take them. They'd rather sit at home smoking pot, talking on their Obama phone and eating off of SNAP's cards.

So now employers are hiring foreigners to take these jobs Americans won't. They are good paying jobs that offer a solid career. Close the borders to all foreigners, our pay scale would increase due to the fact that employers need to attract employees.

I'm certain too many immigrants drives wages down a little, but nothing like the rich sending so many jobs to other countries.

Unions are the only reason we have a middle class. Every country with a strong middle class has unions.

What are these great paying jobs you speak of? Again if there were lots of great jobs for people to find wages wouldn't be stagnant.

Transportartion. Look around. Go to Craigslist and take a look for yourself. You'll find hundreds of jobs that nobody will take. Some companies are so hurting for drivers they will not only train you, but pay you while you learn.

You can see the country for free while making a decent wage. In many cases you can even make your own hours. You can drive during the day or drive during the night. You can move anywhere in the country you desire and be assured there will always be someplace to work.

Besides that, I go through a lot of business parks. These industrial areas are loaded with HELP WANTED signs on their lawns. Go back a few weeks later, those signs are still there.

A few years ago my father told me of how bad they need bricklayers in this area. They were so desperate that they sent newsletters to their retirees such as my father to find people to enter the trade. Granted, it's tough work, but the pay is outstanding and you get all winter off while staying on unemployment. My father made a great life for himself as a bricklayer. They couldn't find anybody willing to learn the trade that could pass a drug test.

If there were lots of jobs out there in need of filling, wages would go up. Wages are stagnant. There may be small pockets of jobs out there, but they are rare.

Which is why I pointed to immigration. Companies are hiring immigrants to do these jobs. We have truck drivers on the road that are not only terrible drivers, but can't read or speak a word of English. They are a danger to American motorists and keeping the wages down because they take jobs that don't pay very well.

 

[Brain357]

If there were lots of great jobs out there wages wouldn't be stagnant.

Unfortunately we have politicians that are bringing in foreigners to do the work.

Supply and demand in employment works out perfectly if you don't throw monkey wrenches into the system like unions or foreigners. In my field of work, there are thousands of jobs, but Americans won't take them. They'd rather sit at home smoking pot, talking on their Obama phone and eating off of SNAP's cards.

So now employers are hiring foreigners to take these jobs Americans won't. They are good paying jobs that offer a solid career. Close the borders to all foreigners, our pay scale would increase due to the fact that employers need to attract employees.

I'm certain too many immigrants drives wages down a little, but nothing like the rich sending so many jobs to other countries.

Unions are the only reason we have a middle class. Every country with a strong middle class has unions.

What are these great paying jobs you speak of? Again if there were lots of great jobs for people to find wages wouldn't be stagnant.

Transportartion. Look around. Go to Craigslist and take a look for yourself. You'll find hundreds of jobs that nobody will take. Some companies are so hurting for drivers they will not only train you, but pay you while you learn.

You can see the country for free while making a decent wage. In many cases you can even make your own hours. You can drive during the day or drive during the night. You can move anywhere in the country you desire and be assured there will always be someplace to work.

Besides that, I go through a lot of business parks. These industrial areas are loaded with HELP WANTED signs on their lawns. Go back a few weeks later, those signs are still there.

A few years ago my father told me of how bad they need bricklayers in this area. They were so desperate that they sent newsletters to their retirees such as my father to find people to enter the trade. Granted, it's tough work, but the pay is outstanding and you get all winter off while staying on unemployment. My father made a great life for himself as a bricklayer. They couldn't find anybody willing to learn the trade that could pass a drug test.

If there were lots of jobs out there in need of filling, wages would go up. Wages are stagnant. There may be small pockets of jobs out there, but they are rare.

Which is why I pointed to immigration. Companies are hiring immigrants to do these jobs. We have truck drivers on the road that are not only terrible drivers, but can't read or speak a word of English. They are a danger to American motorists and keeping the wages down because they take jobs that don't pay very well.

And all those jobs could be filled and the unemployment rate probably wouldn't move. Fact is if there were lots of good jobs going unfilled wages would go up, they aren't. Immigration is a small part of the problem, it is dwarfed by all the jobs that got shipped out.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Unfortunately we have politicians that are bringing in foreigners to do the work.

Supply and demand in employment works out perfectly if you don't throw monkey wrenches into the system like unions or foreigners. In my field of work, there are thousands of jobs, but Americans won't take them. They'd rather sit at home smoking pot, talking on their Obama phone and eating off of SNAP's cards.

So now employers are hiring foreigners to take these jobs Americans won't. They are good paying jobs that offer a solid career. Close the borders to all foreigners, our pay scale would increase due to the fact that employers need to attract employees.

I'm certain too many immigrants drives wages down a little, but nothing like the rich sending so many jobs to other countries.

Unions are the only reason we have a middle class. Every country with a strong middle class has unions.

What are these great paying jobs you speak of? Again if there were lots of great jobs for people to find wages wouldn't be stagnant.

Transportartion. Look around. Go to Craigslist and take a look for yourself. You'll find hundreds of jobs that nobody will take. Some companies are so hurting for drivers they will not only train you, but pay you while you learn.

You can see the country for free while making a decent wage. In many cases you can even make your own hours. You can drive during the day or drive during the night. You can move anywhere in the country you desire and be assured there will always be someplace to work.

Besides that, I go through a lot of business parks. These industrial areas are loaded with HELP WANTED signs on their lawns. Go back a few weeks later, those signs are still there.

A few years ago my father told me of how bad they need bricklayers in this area. They were so desperate that they sent newsletters to their retirees such as my father to find people to enter the trade. Granted, it's tough work, but the pay is outstanding and you get all winter off while staying on unemployment. My father made a great life for himself as a bricklayer. They couldn't find anybody willing to learn the trade that could pass a drug test.

If there were lots of jobs out there in need of filling, wages would go up. Wages are stagnant. There may be small pockets of jobs out there, but they are rare.

Which is why I pointed to immigration. Companies are hiring immigrants to do these jobs. We have truck drivers on the road that are not only terrible drivers, but can't read or speak a word of English. They are a danger to American motorists and keeping the wages down because they take jobs that don't pay very well.

And all those jobs could be filled and the unemployment rate probably wouldn't move. Fact is if there were lots of good jobs going unfilled wages would go up, they aren't. Immigration is a small part of the problem, it is dwarfed by all the jobs that got shipped out.

Median family income is lower than when Obama first took office. DumBama and the Democrats are hell bent on bringing foreigners into this country. Hispanics generally vote Democrat once they get the right to vote, but Democrats don't care about Americans here.

It's not just in my field of work, but nearly all fields. It's much worse down south than here, but it's all over the country.

You are only worth as much as the next person willing to do your job. If you are making $20.00 per hour, and a company can't find others to work for that wage, you are actually worth $21.00 an hour or more. However if you can be replaced by somebody making $15.00 per hour, your financial future is in jeopardy, and that's why we have lower paying jobs.

 

[Brain357]

I'm certain too many immigrants drives wages down a little, but nothing like the rich sending so many jobs to other countries.

Unions are the only reason we have a middle class. Every country with a strong middle class has unions.

What are these great paying jobs you speak of? Again if there were lots of great jobs for people to find wages wouldn't be stagnant.

Transportartion. Look around. Go to Craigslist and take a look for yourself. You'll find hundreds of jobs that nobody will take. Some companies are so hurting for drivers they will not only train you, but pay you while you learn.

You can see the country for free while making a decent wage. In many cases you can even make your own hours. You can drive during the day or drive during the night. You can move anywhere in the country you desire and be assured there will always be someplace to work.

Besides that, I go through a lot of business parks. These industrial areas are loaded with HELP WANTED signs on their lawns. Go back a few weeks later, those signs are still there.

A few years ago my father told me of how bad they need bricklayers in this area. They were so desperate that they sent newsletters to their retirees such as my father to find people to enter the trade. Granted, it's tough work, but the pay is outstanding and you get all winter off while staying on unemployment. My father made a great life for himself as a bricklayer. They couldn't find anybody willing to learn the trade that could pass a drug test.

If there were lots of jobs out there in need of filling, wages would go up. Wages are stagnant. There may be small pockets of jobs out there, but they are rare.

Which is why I pointed to immigration. Companies are hiring immigrants to do these jobs. We have truck drivers on the road that are not only terrible drivers, but can't read or speak a word of English. They are a danger to American motorists and keeping the wages down because they take jobs that don't pay very well.

And all those jobs could be filled and the unemployment rate probably wouldn't move. Fact is if there were lots of good jobs going unfilled wages would go up, they aren't. Immigration is a small part of the problem, it is dwarfed by all the jobs that got shipped out.

Median family income is lower than when Obama first took office. DumBama and the Democrats are hell bent on bringing foreigners into this country. Hispanics generally vote Democrat once they get the right to vote, but Democrats don't care about Americans here.

It's not just in my field of work, but nearly all fields. It's much worse down south than here, but it's all over the country.

You are only worth as much as the next person willing to do your job. If you are making $20.00 per hour, and a company can't find others to work for that wage, you are actually worth $21.00 an hour or more. However if you can be replaced by somebody making $15.00 per hour, your financial future is in jeopardy, and that's why we have lower paying jobs.

That is a trend that started long before Obama. There aren't enough immigrants to do all the damage that has been done. Much more is from shipping off jobs to other countries.

Here are some interesting numbers:
2. As overseas outsourcing has expanded, U.S. manufacturing has suffered the brunt of the blow. According to a report on outsourcing by Working America, “Manufacturing employment collapsed from a high of 19.5 million workers in June 1979 to 11.5 workers in December 2009, a drop of 8 million workers over 30 years. Between August 2000 and February 2004, manufacturing jobs were lost for a stunning 43 consecutive months—the longest such stretch since the Great Depression.” Manufacturing plants have also declined sharply in the last decade, shrinking by more than 51,000 plants, or 12.5 percent, between 1998 and 2008. These stable, middle-class jobs have been the driving force of the U.S. economy for decades and theses losses have done considerable damage to communities across the country.

5 Facts About Overseas Outsourcing

In a growing economy our manufacturing should have been growing, not declining. And that is just manufacturing. Many other types of jobs have been outsourced.

 

[JoeB131]

Well that's what caused them to leave and take our jobs with them. It took a number of years, but it happened and is still happening to a lesser degree.

Isn't that kind of like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short dress.

No, what caused them to leave is their greed.

My experience is that most people who have this hatred are people who never tried to be financially secure or successful themselves. Sure, they may have an IRA from work or something, but not any real investments outside of that. They never took the risks involved with money nor were they ever concerned with it.

GUy, we shouldn't have to have "investments" to be secure. We should be able to get a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. Not some parasite sucking off our labor and living large.

I lost my healthcare coverage thanks to Obama and Commie Care. Now I have to pay for my healthcare with after-tax money whereas before, it was a benefit out of the hands of government. Now it's a major expense I have to endure and it's much harder to make ends meet.

Ohhh, poor baby. Of course, I don't believe you for a minute.

I've seen many businesses close down. We've lost a lot of customers that way. They don't leave out of greed, they leave because they cannot compete for customers with enormous expenses like unions, taxations and regulations. I've talked to the managers and even business owners of these places. They dreaded the thought of leaving the state or country. But it was either that, or join their employees in the unemployment line. Their foreign competition was killing them.

Again, because the politicians you support keep signing these free trade treaties.

Here's the thing guy. There IS NEVER going to be a point the American worker can be brought down to by the rich cocksuckers where he's going to compete with a Chinese worker sucking up poison air and working for $3.00 a day. The idea that if we just bend over for these cocksuckers is what has gotten us into this mess.

The housing bubble and crisis did not start on Wall Street, it started with government. Government was so hell bent on putting minorities into their own homes that they lowered bank standards and even pressured some to give out bad loans. It was government that put their stamp of approval on those bad securities that caused the collapse. What choice did they have? You have to do something with all these bad loans, and nobody would buy those loans if they knew they were bad.

Another lie. The banks went bust not because they were selling homes to poor people but because they were pushing middle class people to buy McMansions they didn't need under the guise of investments. Then they sold that worthless paper to wall street as stocks.

Had government stayed out of the home loan industry, it would have remained solid. It's true that a lot of people would have been left out of the loop, particularly minorities, but trying to appease people to buy votes almost caused a worldwide financial collapse. You can't sell bad loans if you don't have those bad loans in the first place.

Yet, the rest of the world didn't do this, they pushed affordable home ownership and their banks didn't collapse like ours did. Imagine that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well that's what caused them to leave and take our jobs with them. It took a number of years, but it happened and is still happening to a lesser degree.

Isn't that kind of like blaming a rape victim for wearing a short dress.

No, what caused them to leave is their greed.

My experience is that most people who have this hatred are people who never tried to be financially secure or successful themselves. Sure, they may have an IRA from work or something, but not any real investments outside of that. They never took the risks involved with money nor were they ever concerned with it.

GUy, we shouldn't have to have "investments" to be secure. We should be able to get a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. Not some parasite sucking off our labor and living large.

I lost my healthcare coverage thanks to Obama and Commie Care. Now I have to pay for my healthcare with after-tax money whereas before, it was a benefit out of the hands of government. Now it's a major expense I have to endure and it's much harder to make ends meet.

Ohhh, poor baby. Of course, I don't believe you for a minute.

I've seen many businesses close down. We've lost a lot of customers that way. They don't leave out of greed, they leave because they cannot compete for customers with enormous expenses like unions, taxations and regulations. I've talked to the managers and even business owners of these places. They dreaded the thought of leaving the state or country. But it was either that, or join their employees in the unemployment line. Their foreign competition was killing them.

Again, because the politicians you support keep signing these free trade treaties.

Here's the thing guy. There IS NEVER going to be a point the American worker can be brought down to by the rich cocksuckers where he's going to compete with a Chinese worker sucking up poison air and working for $3.00 a day. The idea that if we just bend over for these cocksuckers is what has gotten us into this mess.

The housing bubble and crisis did not start on Wall Street, it started with government. Government was so hell bent on putting minorities into their own homes that they lowered bank standards and even pressured some to give out bad loans. It was government that put their stamp of approval on those bad securities that caused the collapse. What choice did they have? You have to do something with all these bad loans, and nobody would buy those loans if they knew they were bad.

Another lie. The banks went bust not because they were selling homes to poor people but because they were pushing middle class people to buy McMansions they didn't need under the guise of investments. Then they sold that worthless paper to wall street as stocks.

Had government stayed out of the home loan industry, it would have remained solid. It's true that a lot of people would have been left out of the loop, particularly minorities, but trying to appease people to buy votes almost caused a worldwide financial collapse. You can't sell bad loans if you don't have those bad loans in the first place.

Yet, the rest of the world didn't do this, they pushed affordable home ownership and their banks didn't collapse like ours did. Imagine that.

The rest of the world didn't have government promoting bad loans and making bad loan practices. The banks that escaped all that nonsense were those that told government to F-off. HUD lowered the bar for Fanny and Freddy in order to have record amount of loans. Banks merely loan money to government standards. A bank cannot sell a loan in the market unless they meet those government standards. Most complied.

You should be able to get a fair days pay for a fair days work? Where is that written? Who is it that judges a fairs day work or pay? Business are not socially obligated to anybody for anything. Businesses are in business to make money--not provide you with a living. That's not why any business owner starts a business.

If you are not satisfied with your rate of pay, you go work for somebody that has satisfactory rate of pay. If nobody is offering that rate of pay, obviously you lack the skills and training to be worth that kind of salary. The solution of course is to make yourself worth the kind of money you desire--not expect somebody to overpay you because that's what you think you should make.

We shouldn't have to bend over for companies? Well that's just too bad. It's called the Golden Rule: the man with the gold makes the rules. If you don't like his rules, then open up your own company and make your own rules. You can hire fellow Americans and pay them 20.00 an hour to ride around on floor sweeping machines or cleaning toilets if you want. See how long you stay in business while trying to compete with foreign companies that don't have nearly your expenses.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Transportartion. Look around. Go to Craigslist and take a look for yourself. You'll find hundreds of jobs that nobody will take. Some companies are so hurting for drivers they will not only train you, but pay you while you learn.

You can see the country for free while making a decent wage. In many cases you can even make your own hours. You can drive during the day or drive during the night. You can move anywhere in the country you desire and be assured there will always be someplace to work.

Besides that, I go through a lot of business parks. These industrial areas are loaded with HELP WANTED signs on their lawns. Go back a few weeks later, those signs are still there.

A few years ago my father told me of how bad they need bricklayers in this area. They were so desperate that they sent newsletters to their retirees such as my father to find people to enter the trade. Granted, it's tough work, but the pay is outstanding and you get all winter off while staying on unemployment. My father made a great life for himself as a bricklayer. They couldn't find anybody willing to learn the trade that could pass a drug test.

If there were lots of jobs out there in need of filling, wages would go up. Wages are stagnant. There may be small pockets of jobs out there, but they are rare.

Which is why I pointed to immigration. Companies are hiring immigrants to do these jobs. We have truck drivers on the road that are not only terrible drivers, but can't read or speak a word of English. They are a danger to American motorists and keeping the wages down because they take jobs that don't pay very well.

And all those jobs could be filled and the unemployment rate probably wouldn't move. Fact is if there were lots of good jobs going unfilled wages would go up, they aren't. Immigration is a small part of the problem, it is dwarfed by all the jobs that got shipped out.

Median family income is lower than when Obama first took office. DumBama and the Democrats are hell bent on bringing foreigners into this country. Hispanics generally vote Democrat once they get the right to vote, but Democrats don't care about Americans here.

It's not just in my field of work, but nearly all fields. It's much worse down south than here, but it's all over the country.

You are only worth as much as the next person willing to do your job. If you are making $20.00 per hour, and a company can't find others to work for that wage, you are actually worth $21.00 an hour or more. However if you can be replaced by somebody making $15.00 per hour, your financial future is in jeopardy, and that's why we have lower paying jobs.

That is a trend that started long before Obama. There aren't enough immigrants to do all the damage that has been done. Much more is from shipping off jobs to other countries.

Here are some interesting numbers:
2. As overseas outsourcing has expanded, U.S. manufacturing has suffered the brunt of the blow. According to a report on outsourcing by Working America, “Manufacturing employment collapsed from a high of 19.5 million workers in June 1979 to 11.5 workers in December 2009, a drop of 8 million workers over 30 years. Between August 2000 and February 2004, manufacturing jobs were lost for a stunning 43 consecutive months—the longest such stretch since the Great Depression.” Manufacturing plants have also declined sharply in the last decade, shrinking by more than 51,000 plants, or 12.5 percent, between 1998 and 2008. These stable, middle-class jobs have been the driving force of the U.S. economy for decades and theses losses have done considerable damage to communities across the country.

5 Facts About Overseas Outsourcing

In a growing economy our manufacturing should have been growing, not declining. And that is just manufacturing. Many other types of jobs have been outsourced.

What you probably never realized is that automation plays a larger role in American job losses than anything else. In fact some McDonald's restaurants are experimenting with nearly employee free outlets. You go up to the window or counter, punch your order in on the screen, and machines will start producing your order.

It's a growing trend, and I see it all the time since I deal with manufacturing.

Here is a dated article from Professor Walter E Williams, an economist. Again, dated, but it highlights some good points:

The United States is the world's largest recipient of foreign direct investment. According the Economic Report of the President, in 2004, foreigners owned $5.5 trillion in U.S. assets and had $2.3 trillion in sales. They produced $515 billion of goods and services, accounting for 5.7 percent of total U.S. private output, and employed 5.1 million workers, or 4.7 percent of the U.S. workforce in 2004. According to the Congressional Research Service, in 2006 alone, foreign investors spent $184 billion investing in U.S. businesses and real estate, the highest amount foreign investors have spent since 2000. My question to Clinton, Obama and the anti-trade lobby is, would Americans be better off if there were no foreign investment in our country?


According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, between 1996 and 2006, about 15 million jobs were lost and 17 million created each year. That's an annual net creation of 2 million jobs. Roughly 3 percent of the jobs lost were a result of foreign competition. Most were lost because of technology, domestic competition and changes in consumer tastes.


Some of the gain in jobs is a result of "insourcing". Foreign companies, such as Nissan, Honda, Nokia, and Novartis, set up plants, hire American workers and pay them wages higher than the national average. According to Dartmouth College professor Matthew Slaughter, "insourced" jobs paid a salary 32 percent higher than the average U.S. salary. So here's my question to anti-traders: If "outsourcing" is harmful to the U.S., it must also be harmful to European countries and Japan; would you advise them to take their jobs back home?


Wal-Mart has become the whipping boy for political demagogues, unions and anti-traders. I suggest that they have the wrong target. The correct target is revealed by answering the question: "Why does Wal-Mart exist and prosper?"

Wal-Mart exists and prospers because tens of millions of Americans find Wal-Mart to be a suitable source of goods and services. Clinton, Obama, unions and anti-traders should direct their outrage and condemnation at the tens of millions of Americans who shop at Wal-Mart and keep it in business.


There's great angst over the loss of manufacturing jobs. The number of U.S. manufacturing jobs has fallen, and it's mainly a result of technological innovation, and it's a worldwide phenomenon. Daniel W. Drezner, professor of political science at the University of Chicago, in "The Outsourcing Bogeyman" (Foreign Affairs, May/June 2004), notes that U.S. manufacturing employment between 1995 and 2002 fell by 11 percent. Globally, manufacturing job loss averaged 11 percent. China lost 15 percent of its manufacturing jobs, 4.5 million manufacturing jobs compared with the loss of 3.1 million in the U.S. Job loss is the trend among the top 10 manufacturing countries who produce 75 percent of the world's manufacturing output (the U.S., Japan, Germany, China, Britain, France, Italy, Korea, Canada and Mexico).


But guess what — globally, manufacturing output rose by 30 percent during the same period. According to research by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, U.S. manufacturing output increased by 100 percent between 1987 and today. Technological progress and innovation is the primary cause for the decrease in manufacturing jobs. Should we save manufacturing jobs by outlawing labor-saving equipment and technology?


Economist Joseph Schumpeter referred to this process witnessed in market economies as "creative destruction," where technology, innovation and trade destroy some jobs while creating others. While the process works hardships on some people, any attempt to impede the process will make all of us worse off.

Walter Williams

 

[JoeB131]

The rest of the world didn't have government promoting bad loans and making bad loan practices. The banks that escaped all that nonsense were those that told government to F-off. HUD lowered the bar for Fanny and Freddy in order to have record amount of loans. Banks merely loan money to government standards. A bank cannot sell a loan in the market unless they meet those government standards. Most complied.

Actually, exactly the opposite was true. Of the top 25 banks that failed, only 1 wrote loans under the Community Reinvestment Act.

You should be able to get a fair days pay for a fair days work? Where is that written? Who is it that judges a fairs day work or pay? Business are not socially obligated to anybody for anything. Businesses are in business to make money--not provide you with a living. That's not why any business owner starts a business.

Our rules shouldn't revolve on what is convenient for business owners.

"Well, I'd like to not dump toxins into your children's drinking water, but gosh darn, I'm in the business to make money!"

Fuck, are you dumb. We have government to protect us from these people.

We shouldn't have to bend over for companies? Well that's just too bad. It's called the Golden Rule: the man with the gold makes the rules. If you don't like his rules, then open up your own company and make your own rules. You can hire fellow Americans and pay them 20.00 an hour to ride around on floor sweeping machines or cleaning toilets if you want. See how long you stay in business while trying to compete with foreign companies that don't have nearly your expenses.

GUy, I'm fairly convinced conservatism is a form or Stockholm Syndrome where you start to sympathize with your abusers.

Here's the thing, guy, this is a democracy. If we decide we want clean water, we pass clean water rules.

If we decide we want a $15.00 minimum wage, we pass a minimum wage law.

And if some asshole wants to move his factory to China, then we audit him, we tax him, and we let everyone know what a scumbag he is.

Problem. FUcking. Solved.

 

[JoeB131]

What you probably never realized is that automation plays a larger role in American job losses than anything else. In fact some McDonald's restaurants are experimenting with nearly employee free outlets. You go up to the window or counter, punch your order in on the screen, and machines will start producing your order.

Another reason McDonald's is flailing around as a company. That and their food sucks.

Frankly, I want my food prepared by a person. Preferably one who actually gives a shit about his job.

I'm not sure why you don't.

 

[Brain357]

If there were lots of jobs out there in need of filling, wages would go up. Wages are stagnant. There may be small pockets of jobs out there, but they are rare.

Which is why I pointed to immigration. Companies are hiring immigrants to do these jobs. We have truck drivers on the road that are not only terrible drivers, but can't read or speak a word of English. They are a danger to American motorists and keeping the wages down because they take jobs that don't pay very well.

And all those jobs could be filled and the unemployment rate probably wouldn't move. Fact is if there were lots of good jobs going unfilled wages would go up, they aren't. Immigration is a small part of the problem, it is dwarfed by all the jobs that got shipped out.

Median family income is lower than when Obama first took office. DumBama and the Democrats are hell bent on bringing foreigners into this country. Hispanics generally vote Democrat once they get the right to vote, but Democrats don't care about Americans here.

It's not just in my field of work, but nearly all fields. It's much worse down south than here, but it's all over the country.

You are only worth as much as the next person willing to do your job. If you are making $20.00 per hour, and a company can't find others to work for that wage, you are actually worth $21.00 an hour or more. However if you can be replaced by somebody making $15.00 per hour, your financial future is in jeopardy, and that's why we have lower paying jobs.

That is a trend that started long before Obama. There aren't enough immigrants to do all the damage that has been done. Much more is from shipping off jobs to other countries.

Here are some interesting numbers:
2. As overseas outsourcing has expanded, U.S. manufacturing has suffered the brunt of the blow. According to a report on outsourcing by Working America, “Manufacturing employment collapsed from a high of 19.5 million workers in June 1979 to 11.5 workers in December 2009, a drop of 8 million workers over 30 years. Between August 2000 and February 2004, manufacturing jobs were lost for a stunning 43 consecutive months—the longest such stretch since the Great Depression.” Manufacturing plants have also declined sharply in the last decade, shrinking by more than 51,000 plants, or 12.5 percent, between 1998 and 2008. These stable, middle-class jobs have been the driving force of the U.S. economy for decades and theses losses have done considerable damage to communities across the country.

5 Facts About Overseas Outsourcing

In a growing economy our manufacturing should have been growing, not declining. And that is just manufacturing. Many other types of jobs have been outsourced.

What you probably never realized is that automation plays a larger role in American job losses than anything else. In fact some McDonald's restaurants are experimenting with nearly employee free outlets. You go up to the window or counter, punch your order in on the screen, and machines will start producing your order.

It's a growing trend, and I see it all the time since I deal with manufacturing.

Here is a dated article from Professor Walter E Williams, an economist. Again, dated, but it highlights some good points:

The United States is the world's largest recipient of foreign direct investment. According the Economic Report of the President, in 2004, foreigners owned $5.5 trillion in U.S. assets and had $2.3 trillion in sales. They produced $515 billion of goods and services, accounting for 5.7 percent of total U.S. private output, and employed 5.1 million workers, or 4.7 percent of the U.S. workforce in 2004. According to the Congressional Research Service, in 2006 alone, foreign investors spent $184 billion investing in U.S. businesses and real estate, the highest amount foreign investors have spent since 2000. My question to Clinton, Obama and the anti-trade lobby is, would Americans be better off if there were no foreign investment in our country?


According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, between 1996 and 2006, about 15 million jobs were lost and 17 million created each year. That's an annual net creation of 2 million jobs. Roughly 3 percent of the jobs lost were a result of foreign competition. Most were lost because of technology, domestic competition and changes in consumer tastes.


Some of the gain in jobs is a result of "insourcing". Foreign companies, such as Nissan, Honda, Nokia, and Novartis, set up plants, hire American workers and pay them wages higher than the national average. According to Dartmouth College professor Matthew Slaughter, "insourced" jobs paid a salary 32 percent higher than the average U.S. salary. So here's my question to anti-traders: If "outsourcing" is harmful to the U.S., it must also be harmful to European countries and Japan; would you advise them to take their jobs back home?


Wal-Mart has become the whipping boy for political demagogues, unions and anti-traders. I suggest that they have the wrong target. The correct target is revealed by answering the question: "Why does Wal-Mart exist and prosper?"

Wal-Mart exists and prospers because tens of millions of Americans find Wal-Mart to be a suitable source of goods and services. Clinton, Obama, unions and anti-traders should direct their outrage and condemnation at the tens of millions of Americans who shop at Wal-Mart and keep it in business.


There's great angst over the loss of manufacturing jobs. The number of U.S. manufacturing jobs has fallen, and it's mainly a result of technological innovation, and it's a worldwide phenomenon. Daniel W. Drezner, professor of political science at the University of Chicago, in "The Outsourcing Bogeyman" (Foreign Affairs, May/June 2004), notes that U.S. manufacturing employment between 1995 and 2002 fell by 11 percent. Globally, manufacturing job loss averaged 11 percent. China lost 15 percent of its manufacturing jobs, 4.5 million manufacturing jobs compared with the loss of 3.1 million in the U.S. Job loss is the trend among the top 10 manufacturing countries who produce 75 percent of the world's manufacturing output (the U.S., Japan, Germany, China, Britain, France, Italy, Korea, Canada and Mexico).


But guess what — globally, manufacturing output rose by 30 percent during the same period. According to research by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, U.S. manufacturing output increased by 100 percent between 1987 and today. Technological progress and innovation is the primary cause for the decrease in manufacturing jobs. Should we save manufacturing jobs by outlawing labor-saving equipment and technology?


Economist Joseph Schumpeter referred to this process witnessed in market economies as "creative destruction," where technology, innovation and trade destroy some jobs while creating others. While the process works hardships on some people, any attempt to impede the process will make all of us worse off.

Walter Williams

That explains some, but still MANY just got shipped to China. Also I don't think that explains the IT jobs and other types also lost.

 

[Brain357]

If there were lots of jobs out there in need of filling, wages would go up. Wages are stagnant. There may be small pockets of jobs out there, but they are rare.

Which is why I pointed to immigration. Companies are hiring immigrants to do these jobs. We have truck drivers on the road that are not only terrible drivers, but can't read or speak a word of English. They are a danger to American motorists and keeping the wages down because they take jobs that don't pay very well.

And all those jobs could be filled and the unemployment rate probably wouldn't move. Fact is if there were lots of good jobs going unfilled wages would go up, they aren't. Immigration is a small part of the problem, it is dwarfed by all the jobs that got shipped out.

Median family income is lower than when Obama first took office. DumBama and the Democrats are hell bent on bringing foreigners into this country. Hispanics generally vote Democrat once they get the right to vote, but Democrats don't care about Americans here.

It's not just in my field of work, but nearly all fields. It's much worse down south than here, but it's all over the country.

You are only worth as much as the next person willing to do your job. If you are making $20.00 per hour, and a company can't find others to work for that wage, you are actually worth $21.00 an hour or more. However if you can be replaced by somebody making $15.00 per hour, your financial future is in jeopardy, and that's why we have lower paying jobs.

That is a trend that started long before Obama. There aren't enough immigrants to do all the damage that has been done. Much more is from shipping off jobs to other countries.

Here are some interesting numbers:
2. As overseas outsourcing has expanded, U.S. manufacturing has suffered the brunt of the blow. According to a report on outsourcing by Working America, “Manufacturing employment collapsed from a high of 19.5 million workers in June 1979 to 11.5 workers in December 2009, a drop of 8 million workers over 30 years. Between August 2000 and February 2004, manufacturing jobs were lost for a stunning 43 consecutive months—the longest such stretch since the Great Depression.” Manufacturing plants have also declined sharply in the last decade, shrinking by more than 51,000 plants, or 12.5 percent, between 1998 and 2008. These stable, middle-class jobs have been the driving force of the U.S. economy for decades and theses losses have done considerable damage to communities across the country.

5 Facts About Overseas Outsourcing

In a growing economy our manufacturing should have been growing, not declining. And that is just manufacturing. Many other types of jobs have been outsourced.

What you probably never realized is that automation plays a larger role in American job losses than anything else. In fact some McDonald's restaurants are experimenting with nearly employee free outlets. You go up to the window or counter, punch your order in on the screen, and machines will start producing your order.

It's a growing trend, and I see it all the time since I deal with manufacturing.

Here is a dated article from Professor Walter E Williams, an economist. Again, dated, but it highlights some good points:

The United States is the world's largest recipient of foreign direct investment. According the Economic Report of the President, in 2004, foreigners owned $5.5 trillion in U.S. assets and had $2.3 trillion in sales. They produced $515 billion of goods and services, accounting for 5.7 percent of total U.S. private output, and employed 5.1 million workers, or 4.7 percent of the U.S. workforce in 2004. According to the Congressional Research Service, in 2006 alone, foreign investors spent $184 billion investing in U.S. businesses and real estate, the highest amount foreign investors have spent since 2000. My question to Clinton, Obama and the anti-trade lobby is, would Americans be better off if there were no foreign investment in our country?


According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, between 1996 and 2006, about 15 million jobs were lost and 17 million created each year. That's an annual net creation of 2 million jobs. Roughly 3 percent of the jobs lost were a result of foreign competition. Most were lost because of technology, domestic competition and changes in consumer tastes.


Some of the gain in jobs is a result of "insourcing". Foreign companies, such as Nissan, Honda, Nokia, and Novartis, set up plants, hire American workers and pay them wages higher than the national average. According to Dartmouth College professor Matthew Slaughter, "insourced" jobs paid a salary 32 percent higher than the average U.S. salary. So here's my question to anti-traders: If "outsourcing" is harmful to the U.S., it must also be harmful to European countries and Japan; would you advise them to take their jobs back home?


Wal-Mart has become the whipping boy for political demagogues, unions and anti-traders. I suggest that they have the wrong target. The correct target is revealed by answering the question: "Why does Wal-Mart exist and prosper?"

Wal-Mart exists and prospers because tens of millions of Americans find Wal-Mart to be a suitable source of goods and services. Clinton, Obama, unions and anti-traders should direct their outrage and condemnation at the tens of millions of Americans who shop at Wal-Mart and keep it in business.


There's great angst over the loss of manufacturing jobs. The number of U.S. manufacturing jobs has fallen, and it's mainly a result of technological innovation, and it's a worldwide phenomenon. Daniel W. Drezner, professor of political science at the University of Chicago, in "The Outsourcing Bogeyman" (Foreign Affairs, May/June 2004), notes that U.S. manufacturing employment between 1995 and 2002 fell by 11 percent. Globally, manufacturing job loss averaged 11 percent. China lost 15 percent of its manufacturing jobs, 4.5 million manufacturing jobs compared with the loss of 3.1 million in the U.S. Job loss is the trend among the top 10 manufacturing countries who produce 75 percent of the world's manufacturing output (the U.S., Japan, Germany, China, Britain, France, Italy, Korea, Canada and Mexico).


But guess what — globally, manufacturing output rose by 30 percent during the same period. According to research by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, U.S. manufacturing output increased by 100 percent between 1987 and today. Technological progress and innovation is the primary cause for the decrease in manufacturing jobs. Should we save manufacturing jobs by outlawing labor-saving equipment and technology?


Economist Joseph Schumpeter referred to this process witnessed in market economies as "creative destruction," where technology, innovation and trade destroy some jobs while creating others. While the process works hardships on some people, any attempt to impede the process will make all of us worse off.

Walter Williams

So are you actually trying to say we haven't lost many, many jobs to outsourcing? You can't be serious.

 

[danielpalos]

Unfortunately we have politicians that are bringing in foreigners to do the work.

Supply and demand in employment works out perfectly if you don't throw monkey wrenches into the system like unions or foreigners. In my field of work, there are thousands of jobs, but Americans won't take them. They'd rather sit at home smoking pot, talking on their Obama phone and eating off of SNAP's cards.

So now employers are hiring foreigners to take these jobs Americans won't. They are good paying jobs that offer a solid career. Close the borders to all foreigners, our pay scale would increase due to the fact that employers need to attract employees.

I'm certain too many immigrants drives wages down a little, but nothing like the rich sending so many jobs to other countries.

Unions are the only reason we have a middle class. Every country with a strong middle class has unions.

What are these great paying jobs you speak of? Again if there were lots of great jobs for people to find wages wouldn't be stagnant.

Transportartion. Look around. Go to Craigslist and take a look for yourself. You'll find hundreds of jobs that nobody will take. Some companies are so hurting for drivers they will not only train you, but pay you while you learn.

You can see the country for free while making a decent wage. In many cases you can even make your own hours. You can drive during the day or drive during the night. You can move anywhere in the country you desire and be assured there will always be someplace to work.

Besides that, I go through a lot of business parks. These industrial areas are loaded with HELP WANTED signs on their lawns. Go back a few weeks later, those signs are still there.

A few years ago my father told me of how bad they need bricklayers in this area. They were so desperate that they sent newsletters to their retirees such as my father to find people to enter the trade. Granted, it's tough work, but the pay is outstanding and you get all winter off while staying on unemployment. My father made a great life for himself as a bricklayer. They couldn't find anybody willing to learn the trade that could pass a drug test.

If there were lots of jobs out there in need of filling, wages would go up. Wages are stagnant. There may be small pockets of jobs out there, but they are rare.

Which is why I pointed to immigration. Companies are hiring immigrants to do these jobs. We have truck drivers on the road that are not only terrible drivers, but can't read or speak a word of English. They are a danger to American motorists and keeping the wages down because they take jobs that don't pay very well.

And all those jobs could be filled and the unemployment rate probably wouldn't move. Fact is if there were lots of good jobs going unfilled wages would go up, they aren't. Immigration is a small part of the problem, it is dwarfed by all the jobs that got shipped out.

why not end the capital gains distinction for income for any jobs unfilled more than a quarter?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Which is why I pointed to immigration. Companies are hiring immigrants to do these jobs. We have truck drivers on the road that are not only terrible drivers, but can't read or speak a word of English. They are a danger to American motorists and keeping the wages down because they take jobs that don't pay very well.

And all those jobs could be filled and the unemployment rate probably wouldn't move. Fact is if there were lots of good jobs going unfilled wages would go up, they aren't. Immigration is a small part of the problem, it is dwarfed by all the jobs that got shipped out.

Median family income is lower than when Obama first took office. DumBama and the Democrats are hell bent on bringing foreigners into this country. Hispanics generally vote Democrat once they get the right to vote, but Democrats don't care about Americans here.

It's not just in my field of work, but nearly all fields. It's much worse down south than here, but it's all over the country.

You are only worth as much as the next person willing to do your job. If you are making $20.00 per hour, and a company can't find others to work for that wage, you are actually worth $21.00 an hour or more. However if you can be replaced by somebody making $15.00 per hour, your financial future is in jeopardy, and that's why we have lower paying jobs.

That is a trend that started long before Obama. There aren't enough immigrants to do all the damage that has been done. Much more is from shipping off jobs to other countries.

Here are some interesting numbers:
2. As overseas outsourcing has expanded, U.S. manufacturing has suffered the brunt of the blow. According to a report on outsourcing by Working America, “Manufacturing employment collapsed from a high of 19.5 million workers in June 1979 to 11.5 workers in December 2009, a drop of 8 million workers over 30 years. Between August 2000 and February 2004, manufacturing jobs were lost for a stunning 43 consecutive months—the longest such stretch since the Great Depression.” Manufacturing plants have also declined sharply in the last decade, shrinking by more than 51,000 plants, or 12.5 percent, between 1998 and 2008. These stable, middle-class jobs have been the driving force of the U.S. economy for decades and theses losses have done considerable damage to communities across the country.

5 Facts About Overseas Outsourcing

In a growing economy our manufacturing should have been growing, not declining. And that is just manufacturing. Many other types of jobs have been outsourced.

What you probably never realized is that automation plays a larger role in American job losses than anything else. In fact some McDonald's restaurants are experimenting with nearly employee free outlets. You go up to the window or counter, punch your order in on the screen, and machines will start producing your order.

It's a growing trend, and I see it all the time since I deal with manufacturing.

Here is a dated article from Professor Walter E Williams, an economist. Again, dated, but it highlights some good points:

The United States is the world's largest recipient of foreign direct investment. According the Economic Report of the President, in 2004, foreigners owned $5.5 trillion in U.S. assets and had $2.3 trillion in sales. They produced $515 billion of goods and services, accounting for 5.7 percent of total U.S. private output, and employed 5.1 million workers, or 4.7 percent of the U.S. workforce in 2004. According to the Congressional Research Service, in 2006 alone, foreign investors spent $184 billion investing in U.S. businesses and real estate, the highest amount foreign investors have spent since 2000. My question to Clinton, Obama and the anti-trade lobby is, would Americans be better off if there were no foreign investment in our country?


According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, between 1996 and 2006, about 15 million jobs were lost and 17 million created each year. That's an annual net creation of 2 million jobs. Roughly 3 percent of the jobs lost were a result of foreign competition. Most were lost because of technology, domestic competition and changes in consumer tastes.


Some of the gain in jobs is a result of "insourcing". Foreign companies, such as Nissan, Honda, Nokia, and Novartis, set up plants, hire American workers and pay them wages higher than the national average. According to Dartmouth College professor Matthew Slaughter, "insourced" jobs paid a salary 32 percent higher than the average U.S. salary. So here's my question to anti-traders: If "outsourcing" is harmful to the U.S., it must also be harmful to European countries and Japan; would you advise them to take their jobs back home?


Wal-Mart has become the whipping boy for political demagogues, unions and anti-traders. I suggest that they have the wrong target. The correct target is revealed by answering the question: "Why does Wal-Mart exist and prosper?"

Wal-Mart exists and prospers because tens of millions of Americans find Wal-Mart to be a suitable source of goods and services. Clinton, Obama, unions and anti-traders should direct their outrage and condemnation at the tens of millions of Americans who shop at Wal-Mart and keep it in business.


There's great angst over the loss of manufacturing jobs. The number of U.S. manufacturing jobs has fallen, and it's mainly a result of technological innovation, and it's a worldwide phenomenon. Daniel W. Drezner, professor of political science at the University of Chicago, in "The Outsourcing Bogeyman" (Foreign Affairs, May/June 2004), notes that U.S. manufacturing employment between 1995 and 2002 fell by 11 percent. Globally, manufacturing job loss averaged 11 percent. China lost 15 percent of its manufacturing jobs, 4.5 million manufacturing jobs compared with the loss of 3.1 million in the U.S. Job loss is the trend among the top 10 manufacturing countries who produce 75 percent of the world's manufacturing output (the U.S., Japan, Germany, China, Britain, France, Italy, Korea, Canada and Mexico).


But guess what — globally, manufacturing output rose by 30 percent during the same period. According to research by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, U.S. manufacturing output increased by 100 percent between 1987 and today. Technological progress and innovation is the primary cause for the decrease in manufacturing jobs. Should we save manufacturing jobs by outlawing labor-saving equipment and technology?


Economist Joseph Schumpeter referred to this process witnessed in market economies as "creative destruction," where technology, innovation and trade destroy some jobs while creating others. While the process works hardships on some people, any attempt to impede the process will make all of us worse off.

Walter Williams

So are you actually trying to say we haven't lost many, many jobs to outsourcing? You can't be serious.

As the article points out, yes, we lost jobs, but we gained those jobs back and then some with insourcing. You can't have a country that insources but not outsources. Nobody would deal with that.

 

[Brain357]

And all those jobs could be filled and the unemployment rate probably wouldn't move. Fact is if there were lots of good jobs going unfilled wages would go up, they aren't. Immigration is a small part of the problem, it is dwarfed by all the jobs that got shipped out.

Median family income is lower than when Obama first took office. DumBama and the Democrats are hell bent on bringing foreigners into this country. Hispanics generally vote Democrat once they get the right to vote, but Democrats don't care about Americans here.

It's not just in my field of work, but nearly all fields. It's much worse down south than here, but it's all over the country.

You are only worth as much as the next person willing to do your job. If you are making $20.00 per hour, and a company can't find others to work for that wage, you are actually worth $21.00 an hour or more. However if you can be replaced by somebody making $15.00 per hour, your financial future is in jeopardy, and that's why we have lower paying jobs.

That is a trend that started long before Obama. There aren't enough immigrants to do all the damage that has been done. Much more is from shipping off jobs to other countries.

Here are some interesting numbers:
2. As overseas outsourcing has expanded, U.S. manufacturing has suffered the brunt of the blow. According to a report on outsourcing by Working America, “Manufacturing employment collapsed from a high of 19.5 million workers in June 1979 to 11.5 workers in December 2009, a drop of 8 million workers over 30 years. Between August 2000 and February 2004, manufacturing jobs were lost for a stunning 43 consecutive months—the longest such stretch since the Great Depression.” Manufacturing plants have also declined sharply in the last decade, shrinking by more than 51,000 plants, or 12.5 percent, between 1998 and 2008. These stable, middle-class jobs have been the driving force of the U.S. economy for decades and theses losses have done considerable damage to communities across the country.

5 Facts About Overseas Outsourcing

In a growing economy our manufacturing should have been growing, not declining. And that is just manufacturing. Many other types of jobs have been outsourced.

What you probably never realized is that automation plays a larger role in American job losses than anything else. In fact some McDonald's restaurants are experimenting with nearly employee free outlets. You go up to the window or counter, punch your order in on the screen, and machines will start producing your order.

It's a growing trend, and I see it all the time since I deal with manufacturing.

Here is a dated article from Professor Walter E Williams, an economist. Again, dated, but it highlights some good points:

The United States is the world's largest recipient of foreign direct investment. According the Economic Report of the President, in 2004, foreigners owned $5.5 trillion in U.S. assets and had $2.3 trillion in sales. They produced $515 billion of goods and services, accounting for 5.7 percent of total U.S. private output, and employed 5.1 million workers, or 4.7 percent of the U.S. workforce in 2004. According to the Congressional Research Service, in 2006 alone, foreign investors spent $184 billion investing in U.S. businesses and real estate, the highest amount foreign investors have spent since 2000. My question to Clinton, Obama and the anti-trade lobby is, would Americans be better off if there were no foreign investment in our country?


According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, between 1996 and 2006, about 15 million jobs were lost and 17 million created each year. That's an annual net creation of 2 million jobs. Roughly 3 percent of the jobs lost were a result of foreign competition. Most were lost because of technology, domestic competition and changes in consumer tastes.


Some of the gain in jobs is a result of "insourcing". Foreign companies, such as Nissan, Honda, Nokia, and Novartis, set up plants, hire American workers and pay them wages higher than the national average. According to Dartmouth College professor Matthew Slaughter, "insourced" jobs paid a salary 32 percent higher than the average U.S. salary. So here's my question to anti-traders: If "outsourcing" is harmful to the U.S., it must also be harmful to European countries and Japan; would you advise them to take their jobs back home?


Wal-Mart has become the whipping boy for political demagogues, unions and anti-traders. I suggest that they have the wrong target. The correct target is revealed by answering the question: "Why does Wal-Mart exist and prosper?"

Wal-Mart exists and prospers because tens of millions of Americans find Wal-Mart to be a suitable source of goods and services. Clinton, Obama, unions and anti-traders should direct their outrage and condemnation at the tens of millions of Americans who shop at Wal-Mart and keep it in business.


There's great angst over the loss of manufacturing jobs. The number of U.S. manufacturing jobs has fallen, and it's mainly a result of technological innovation, and it's a worldwide phenomenon. Daniel W. Drezner, professor of political science at the University of Chicago, in "The Outsourcing Bogeyman" (Foreign Affairs, May/June 2004), notes that U.S. manufacturing employment between 1995 and 2002 fell by 11 percent. Globally, manufacturing job loss averaged 11 percent. China lost 15 percent of its manufacturing jobs, 4.5 million manufacturing jobs compared with the loss of 3.1 million in the U.S. Job loss is the trend among the top 10 manufacturing countries who produce 75 percent of the world's manufacturing output (the U.S., Japan, Germany, China, Britain, France, Italy, Korea, Canada and Mexico).


But guess what — globally, manufacturing output rose by 30 percent during the same period. According to research by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, U.S. manufacturing output increased by 100 percent between 1987 and today. Technological progress and innovation is the primary cause for the decrease in manufacturing jobs. Should we save manufacturing jobs by outlawing labor-saving equipment and technology?


Economist Joseph Schumpeter referred to this process witnessed in market economies as "creative destruction," where technology, innovation and trade destroy some jobs while creating others. While the process works hardships on some people, any attempt to impede the process will make all of us worse off.

Walter Williams

So are you actually trying to say we haven't lost many, many jobs to outsourcing? You can't be serious.

As the article points out, yes, we lost jobs, but we gained those jobs back and then some with insourcing. You can't have a country that insources but not outsources. Nobody would deal with that.

Manufacturing is still down. Way more outsourcing than insourcing.