Women should dress modestly or expect to 'entice a rapist...'

[martybegan]

It doesn't make the victim responsible unless the law is changed to say that the victims' dress is a mitigating factor.

You are dealing with absolutes, not risk. So you are telling me there is no increase in risk for a woman if she dresses provocatively in a bar? Zero risk increase?

Nah, you might get more guys slobbering over you but that doesn't make them rapists. Go ahead and show us the data that proves your point.

Show me the data that proves it isn't.

I want to see you type it, "Appearance does not increase the risk of rape, either violent on the street rape, or roofie-bar rape"

StMDEFEND already posted it.

Appearance does not increase the risk of rape, either violent on the street rape, or roofie-bar type rape.

Rape is not about sex. It is about hurting people.

Some forms of rape is not about sex, for on the street pull the woman in the corner rape, it's about power. I disagree on some of the roofie guys though, for them its about getting laid the easiest way possible.

Some pathologies cannot be typcast in neat little boxes.

You believe roofie-rape is a cake walk that doesn't cause harm?

Not even close. Both are rape, and both are to be punished as severely as the law allows. I'm discussing the pathologies of the people perpetrating them, not saying roofie guy should get a pass because he is roofie guy. Roofie guy is probably worse from a law enforcement perspective because his method leaves the victim often without memory of what actually happened.

Again, you have to separate a frank discussion or risk factors and mitigation of those risks, vs. any desire to see a woman ignoring said risk factors being held against her. (for the record, I don't see any of these risk factors, dress, travel mode, location as grounds for mitigation of the crime. Punish the bastards no matter what, and do it hard.

 

[martybegan]

What about the "roofie" guy in a bar?

Date rapists aren't attracted by what a woman is wearing either. Date rape is a crime of opportunity. It's whoever will give them the opportunity.

Women know how to handle themselves in a bar and not get roofied so they don't.

and you know this for sure how? Risk is a combination of factors, and you say appearance is not one of them?

Years of representing rapists and attending seminars on rape psychology. I've even taught a few.

The idea that a woman's appearance will drive men mad and turn them into rapists belongs in Saudi Arabia. It just isn't true.

Dress skimpy and a woman might get a lot of attention, which is why she's dressing that way in the first place, but it won't, alone, turn a man into a rapist.

It's not about turning a man into a rapist, it's what someone who even considers rape to be an option thinks.

Back this up with facts, please.

Facts and psychology do not go hand in had. Again we are talking risk.

 

[martybegan]

This is amazing.

They confuse informing someone of risks with placing blame on them after it happens if they don't mitigate the risks, something which no one in this conversation has proposed.

Given two women sitting at a bar alone, both reasonably attractive, if one is dressed in a low cut but tasteful top, and the other has the side boob rocking, do you think this plays no part in some roofie bastards choice of his next target?

No. The roofie bastard will choose the one who is most likely to give him an opportunity to slip in that roofie.

Given an equal chance, you are saying he will never choose one or the other based on appearance?

No. Those who use date rape drugs are looking for a woman that will trust them. It doesn't matter what she looks like.

Actually the more sexy a woman is dressed, the more likely it is that she is knowledgeable enough not to be trusting. It is unbelievably easy to avoid roofies and date rape drugs.

All sorts of supposition here. and yet you still say appearance and dress is NEVER a risk factor.

 

[Ravi]

Nah, you might get more guys slobbering over you but that doesn't make them rapists. Go ahead and show us the data that proves your point.

Show me the data that proves it isn't.

I want to see you type it, "Appearance does not increase the risk of rape, either violent on the street rape, or roofie-bar rape"

StMDEFEND already posted it.

Appearance does not increase the risk of rape, either violent on the street rape, or roofie-bar type rape.

Rape is not about sex. It is about hurting people.

Some forms of rape is not about sex, for on the street pull the woman in the corner rape, it's about power. I disagree on some of the roofie guys though, for them its about getting laid the easiest way possible.

Some pathologies cannot be typcast in neat little boxes.

You believe roofie-rape is a cake walk that doesn't cause harm?

Not even close. Both are rape, and both are to be punished as severely as the law allows. I'm discussing the pathologies of the people perpetrating them, not saying roofie guy should get a pass because he is roofie guy. Roofie guy is probably worse from a law enforcement perspective because his method leaves the victim often without memory of what actually happened.

Again, you have to separate a frank discussion or risk factors and mitigation of those risks, vs. any desire to see a woman ignoring said risk factors being held against her. (for the record, I don't see any of these risk factors, dress, travel mode, location as grounds for mitigation of the crime. Punish the bastards no matter what, and do it hard.

The risk factor is going to a place where you are vulnerable. Not what you are wearing.

 

[Ravi]

Date rapists aren't attracted by what a woman is wearing either. Date rape is a crime of opportunity. It's whoever will give them the opportunity.

Women know how to handle themselves in a bar and not get roofied so they don't.

and you know this for sure how? Risk is a combination of factors, and you say appearance is not one of them?

Years of representing rapists and attending seminars on rape psychology. I've even taught a few.

The idea that a woman's appearance will drive men mad and turn them into rapists belongs in Saudi Arabia. It just isn't true.

Dress skimpy and a woman might get a lot of attention, which is why she's dressing that way in the first place, but it won't, alone, turn a man into a rapist.

It's not about turning a man into a rapist, it's what someone who even considers rape to be an option thinks.

Back this up with facts, please.

Facts and psychology do not go hand in had. Again we are talking risk.

And you are only using your feelings to determine risk. Laughable.

 

[martybegan]

Show me the data that proves it isn't.

I want to see you type it, "Appearance does not increase the risk of rape, either violent on the street rape, or roofie-bar rape"

StMDEFEND already posted it.

Appearance does not increase the risk of rape, either violent on the street rape, or roofie-bar type rape.

Rape is not about sex. It is about hurting people.

Some forms of rape is not about sex, for on the street pull the woman in the corner rape, it's about power. I disagree on some of the roofie guys though, for them its about getting laid the easiest way possible.

Some pathologies cannot be typcast in neat little boxes.

You believe roofie-rape is a cake walk that doesn't cause harm?

Not even close. Both are rape, and both are to be punished as severely as the law allows. I'm discussing the pathologies of the people perpetrating them, not saying roofie guy should get a pass because he is roofie guy. Roofie guy is probably worse from a law enforcement perspective because his method leaves the victim often without memory of what actually happened.

Again, you have to separate a frank discussion or risk factors and mitigation of those risks, vs. any desire to see a woman ignoring said risk factors being held against her. (for the record, I don't see any of these risk factors, dress, travel mode, location as grounds for mitigation of the crime. Punish the bastards no matter what, and do it hard.

The risk factor is going to a place where you are vulnerable. Not what you are wearing.

and you are 100% sure of this because why?

 

[martybegan]

and you know this for sure how? Risk is a combination of factors, and you say appearance is not one of them?

Years of representing rapists and attending seminars on rape psychology. I've even taught a few.

The idea that a woman's appearance will drive men mad and turn them into rapists belongs in Saudi Arabia. It just isn't true.

Dress skimpy and a woman might get a lot of attention, which is why she's dressing that way in the first place, but it won't, alone, turn a man into a rapist.

It's not about turning a man into a rapist, it's what someone who even considers rape to be an option thinks.

Back this up with facts, please.

Facts and psychology do not go hand in had. Again we are talking risk.

And you are only using your feelings to determine risk. Laughable.

I am using common sense to determine risk. If dressing a certain way attracts undue attention from men who only want to gawk at or hit on a woman, why would the same dress not increase the risk of a roofie guy coming after her?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Years of representing rapists and attending seminars on rape psychology. I've even taught a few.

The idea that a woman's appearance will drive men mad and turn them into rapists belongs in Saudi Arabia. It just isn't true.

Dress skimpy and a woman might get a lot of attention, which is why she's dressing that way in the first place, but it won't, alone, turn a man into a rapist.

It's not about turning a man into a rapist, it's what someone who even considers rape to be an option thinks.

Back this up with facts, please.

Facts and psychology do not go hand in had. Again we are talking risk.

And you are only using your feelings to determine risk. Laughable.

I am using common sense to determine risk. If dressing a certain way attracts undue attention from men who only want to gawk at or hit on a woman, why would the same dress not increase the risk of a roofie guy coming after her?

Have you seen Cosby's girlfriends?

 

[Ravi]

StMDEFEND already posted it.

Appearance does not increase the risk of rape, either violent on the street rape, or roofie-bar type rape.

Rape is not about sex. It is about hurting people.

Some forms of rape is not about sex, for on the street pull the woman in the corner rape, it's about power. I disagree on some of the roofie guys though, for them its about getting laid the easiest way possible.

Some pathologies cannot be typcast in neat little boxes.

You believe roofie-rape is a cake walk that doesn't cause harm?

Not even close. Both are rape, and both are to be punished as severely as the law allows. I'm discussing the pathologies of the people perpetrating them, not saying roofie guy should get a pass because he is roofie guy. Roofie guy is probably worse from a law enforcement perspective because his method leaves the victim often without memory of what actually happened.

Again, you have to separate a frank discussion or risk factors and mitigation of those risks, vs. any desire to see a woman ignoring said risk factors being held against her. (for the record, I don't see any of these risk factors, dress, travel mode, location as grounds for mitigation of the crime. Punish the bastards no matter what, and do it hard.

The risk factor is going to a place where you are vulnerable. Not what you are wearing.

and you are 100% sure of this because why?

Because rape isn't about sex. It is about harming someone.

 

[Ravi]

It's not about turning a man into a rapist, it's what someone who even considers rape to be an option thinks.

Back this up with facts, please.

Facts and psychology do not go hand in had. Again we are talking risk.

And you are only using your feelings to determine risk. Laughable.

I am using common sense to determine risk. If dressing a certain way attracts undue attention from men who only want to gawk at or hit on a woman, why would the same dress not increase the risk of a roofie guy coming after her?

Have you seen Cosby's girlfriends?

LOL. I don't know what they look like, but Cosby is a good example. He could have had sex with a wide variety of woman, because people do like to screw celebrities. But instead, he raped them all and they were all crimes of opportunity. It wasn't what they were wearing, it was because they were WITH him somewhere.

 

[Katzndogz]

Years of representing rapists and attending seminars on rape psychology. I've even taught a few.

The idea that a woman's appearance will drive men mad and turn them into rapists belongs in Saudi Arabia. It just isn't true.

Dress skimpy and a woman might get a lot of attention, which is why she's dressing that way in the first place, but it won't, alone, turn a man into a rapist.

It's not about turning a man into a rapist, it's what someone who even considers rape to be an option thinks.

Back this up with facts, please.

Facts and psychology do not go hand in had. Again we are talking risk.

And you are only using your feelings to determine risk. Laughable.

I am using common sense to determine risk. If dressing a certain way attracts undue attention from men who only want to gawk at or hit on a woman, why would the same dress not increase the risk of a roofie guy coming after her?

The roofie guy is looking for something other than a woman dressed in a particular way.

 

[martybegan]

Some forms of rape is not about sex, for on the street pull the woman in the corner rape, it's about power. I disagree on some of the roofie guys though, for them its about getting laid the easiest way possible.

Some pathologies cannot be typcast in neat little boxes.

You believe roofie-rape is a cake walk that doesn't cause harm?

Not even close. Both are rape, and both are to be punished as severely as the law allows. I'm discussing the pathologies of the people perpetrating them, not saying roofie guy should get a pass because he is roofie guy. Roofie guy is probably worse from a law enforcement perspective because his method leaves the victim often without memory of what actually happened.

Again, you have to separate a frank discussion or risk factors and mitigation of those risks, vs. any desire to see a woman ignoring said risk factors being held against her. (for the record, I don't see any of these risk factors, dress, travel mode, location as grounds for mitigation of the crime. Punish the bastards no matter what, and do it hard.

The risk factor is going to a place where you are vulnerable. Not what you are wearing.

and you are 100% sure of this because why?

Because rape isn't about sex. It is about harming someone.

For some rapists, yes. For some roofie guys? probably not.

Why does everything have to fit in standard, pre-defined little holes for you?

 

[martybegan]

It's not about turning a man into a rapist, it's what someone who even considers rape to be an option thinks.

Back this up with facts, please.

Facts and psychology do not go hand in had. Again we are talking risk.

And you are only using your feelings to determine risk. Laughable.

I am using common sense to determine risk. If dressing a certain way attracts undue attention from men who only want to gawk at or hit on a woman, why would the same dress not increase the risk of a roofie guy coming after her?

Have you seen Cosby's girlfriends?

All the more reason to think that you can't standardize the motives of a rapist, be it the drag them in the bushes type, or the slip them a roofie type.

 

[martybegan]

It's not about turning a man into a rapist, it's what someone who even considers rape to be an option thinks.

Back this up with facts, please.

Facts and psychology do not go hand in had. Again we are talking risk.

And you are only using your feelings to determine risk. Laughable.

I am using common sense to determine risk. If dressing a certain way attracts undue attention from men who only want to gawk at or hit on a woman, why would the same dress not increase the risk of a roofie guy coming after her?

The roofie guy is looking for something other than a woman dressed in a particular way.

And you are 100% sure of this because?

 

[aris2chat]

So there are people here who wouldn't think twice about having their daughter wear a skintight minidress into a biker bar.

Wouldn't bother them in the least.

Somehow I'm not surprised.
.

I am a father to three daughters. I am not saying that I wouldn't "think twice about having their daughter wear a skintight minidress into a biker bar," what I am is, should any of them do so, it is not an invitation to rape.

Now, what part of that are you having trouble with?

Some people think adult daughters can and should be controlled. Islam hasn't taken over America yet.

So it's fair to say that neither of you would care in the slightest if your daughter wore a skin tight minidress into a biker bar.

Wouldn't even occur to you that she may be choosing to put herself into a slightly dangerous situation. Maybe a bikini would be a bold fashion statement, now there's an idea.

Okay, got it, my bad. Fortunately, my daughters wouldn't make such a stupid decision.
.

I would object to the bike bar, but my daughter is old enough to make her own choices in life.

 

[Ravi]

You believe roofie-rape is a cake walk that doesn't cause harm?

Not even close. Both are rape, and both are to be punished as severely as the law allows. I'm discussing the pathologies of the people perpetrating them, not saying roofie guy should get a pass because he is roofie guy. Roofie guy is probably worse from a law enforcement perspective because his method leaves the victim often without memory of what actually happened.

Again, you have to separate a frank discussion or risk factors and mitigation of those risks, vs. any desire to see a woman ignoring said risk factors being held against her. (for the record, I don't see any of these risk factors, dress, travel mode, location as grounds for mitigation of the crime. Punish the bastards no matter what, and do it hard.

The risk factor is going to a place where you are vulnerable. Not what you are wearing.

and you are 100% sure of this because why?

Because rape isn't about sex. It is about harming someone.

For some rapists, yes. For some roofie guys? probably not.

Why does everything have to fit in standard, pre-defined little holes for you?

Is this a serious question from someone that claims how a woman dresses determines if she'll be raped or not?

 

[martybegan]

Not even close. Both are rape, and both are to be punished as severely as the law allows. I'm discussing the pathologies of the people perpetrating them, not saying roofie guy should get a pass because he is roofie guy. Roofie guy is probably worse from a law enforcement perspective because his method leaves the victim often without memory of what actually happened.

Again, you have to separate a frank discussion or risk factors and mitigation of those risks, vs. any desire to see a woman ignoring said risk factors being held against her. (for the record, I don't see any of these risk factors, dress, travel mode, location as grounds for mitigation of the crime. Punish the bastards no matter what, and do it hard.

The risk factor is going to a place where you are vulnerable. Not what you are wearing.

and you are 100% sure of this because why?

Because rape isn't about sex. It is about harming someone.

For some rapists, yes. For some roofie guys? probably not.

Why does everything have to fit in standard, pre-defined little holes for you?

Is this a serious question from someone that claims how a woman dresses determines if she'll be raped or not?

it doesn't determine, but to think it is not a risk factor, that when coupled with other risk factors, can increase risk, is delusional, and being a slave to an ideological construct.

 

[Valerie]

not sure if anyone has mentioned this but i heard them talking about this story on the radio this morning...




Massachusetts Teen Organizes Protest Of High School's Ban On Yoga Pants


...the school district's superintendent, said that the school's policy was put in place to help prepare students for their futures by giving them "soft skills employees seek, including an awareness of appropriate dress for appropriate venues."


Connolly and her friends say that the policy targets female students.


"Many of us think that it is because it's considered more of a distraction to boys," she said. “We can’t help we were born girls. A pair of pants shouldn’t change a way of learning or attending classes just because they can be considered a distraction. We have voices at Cape Tech, and they need to be heard.”


Connolly created a Facebook event for Sept. 2 titled "First Day = Yoga Pants" in which she asks her classmates to wear yoga pants on the first day of class.


Massachusetts Teen Organizes Protest Of High School's Ban On Yoga Pants


Cape Cod student asking school officials to be flexible about yoga pants ban - The Boston Globe

 

[martybegan]

not sure if anyone has mentioned this but i heard them talking about this story on the radio this morning...




Massachusetts Teen Organizes Protest Of High School's Ban On Yoga Pants


...the school district's superintendent, said that the school's policy was put in place to help prepare students for their futures by giving them "soft skills employees seek, including an awareness of appropriate dress for appropriate venues."


Connolly and her friends say that the policy targets female students.


"Many of us think that it is because it's considered more of a distraction to boys," she said. “We can’t help we were born girls. A pair of pants shouldn’t change a way of learning or attending classes just because they can be considered a distraction. We have voices at Cape Tech, and they need to be heard.”


Connolly created a Facebook event for Sept. 2 titled "First Day = Yoga Pants" in which she asks her classmates to wear yoga pants on the first day of class.


Massachusetts Teen Organizes Protest Of High School's Ban On Yoga Pants

are guys allowed to wear shorts?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Back this up with facts, please.

Facts and psychology do not go hand in had. Again we are talking risk.

And you are only using your feelings to determine risk. Laughable.

I am using common sense to determine risk. If dressing a certain way attracts undue attention from men who only want to gawk at or hit on a woman, why would the same dress not increase the risk of a roofie guy coming after her?

Have you seen Cosby's girlfriends?

All the more reason to think that you can't standardize the motives of a rapist, be it the drag them in the bushes type, or the slip them a roofie type.

Then in turn you can't standardize the risks associated with women in various states of undress. Thanks for the discussion and I wish you better luck next time.