Would you Follow Him and take his mark?

[JohnDB]

Look,
I have met and talked with Christians from around the world....From the Coptics in Egypt to the Meeps in Iraq and even the evangelicals that were once in hiding behind the iron curtain....and let's not forget the whole of Judaism in Israel and the Messianic Jews and Christians in South Africa....Not a single one of them would be as kind as I have been to you.

Many of these are from the original churches that the original 12 founded. (I'm including Paul)
None are so callous as to do to scriptures what you are doing...they have magnitudes more fear and respect of God and the Bible than you.

When you disagree with scriptures...
When you disagree with every secular historian...
When you then steal a label...

Really...there's no explanation you have that is going to change the whole world's mind. The ONLY person who considers you a Christian is you. (You probably need to repent so maybe Jesus will take pity on you)

Me?
I believe in the UBS4 and Biblica Hebraica Stutengartsia (which is what most modern translation are made from)

Now the Jehovah witnesses and the Mormons try to claim that they are Christian too....but they are just like YOU.... stealing a label.

So.... you need to go to another thread to explain your own religion. Just don't use the label Christian because where you might be using parts of the Bible like a Mormon or JW.... you ain't one of us.

 

[buttercup]

Then you cannot claim to be a Christian.
You are a member of another religion.

To us Christians, Jesus is God. His words are LAW. Jesus said that Daniel was a prophet...so guess what?

I'm going to take Jesus' word over yours every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

And since you are a member of another religion, please step out of this thread which is for Christians.
You can have your own thread espousing whatever god it is that you worship...

THANK YOU!!! My thoughts exactly. All he/she does is mislead people, constantly, on every thread.

As I said earlier, Jesus warned about people who claim to be Christian but go against HIS own words and mislead people with false teaching. Not to mention constantly trying to subvert the bible, while pushing utterly foolish ideas that have already been debunked six ways from Sunday.

 

[JohnDB]

THANK YOU!!! My thoughts exactly. All he/she does is mislead people, constantly, on every thread.

As I said earlier, Jesus warned about people who claim to be Christian but go against HIS own words and mislead people with false doctrines. Not to mention constantly trying to subvert the bible, while pushing utterly foolish ideas that have already been debunked six ways from Sunday.

He has holes in his beliefs so large I can have a 5 truck wide convoy from the 70's drive thru with plenty of room on both sides.

The sick part is he doesn't see it.

There's a huge problem when you start claiming books of the Cannon are lying. Huge huge problems....then on top of this that the gospel writers (every last one taught by Jesus personally) is wrong or lying...or that everyone's bible was changed around the world...
And then on top of this discrediting every secular historian and physical record known to modern man.

We can clearly see all the new theological principles that Daniel didn't understand but said...which were built upon step by step in the New Testament...from the name Gabriel to life in Heaven... Daniel is a highly regarded individual that all Jews and Christians have revered for his writings. The whole banking system we have today is based on the system that Daniel himself created. Zachariah would never knew how bad he screwed up if Gabriel didn't use his own name.

Scriptures are precious...every single word.

 

[surada]

Nope...
You either believe Jesus or you don't.

If you believe Jesus you are a Christian.
If you don't believe Jesus then you are not a Christian....

It's fairly cut and dry like that.
That's what the term "Christian" literally means. And since you are in direct opposition to what Jesus said...guess what? I don't have to think about anything you have to say on the subject. (Even though it directly contradicts every reliable history book in the known world)

This thread is for Christians which you are claiming NOT to be by refusing to believe what Jesus said.

You can't co-op someone else label to sew dissention... Jesus had specific charges about that sort of thing. But it's also rude by even today's standards.

If you joined a pro-life group and said you were a pro life person but advocated abortion for every reason imaginable and those unimagined... you aren't pro-life.

Same thing applies here. You claim Jesus was a liar...Christians do not. You are not a Christian...it's that simple.

Most Bible scholars, historians and archaeologists understand what Jesus said and what happened during the reign of Antiochus and the Maccabean war.

What church do you belong to?

 

[surada]

Look,
I have met and talked with Christians from around the world....From the Coptics in Egypt to the Meeps in Iraq and even the evangelicals that were once in hiding behind the iron curtain....and let's not forget the whole of Judaism in Israel and the Messianic Jews and Christians in South Africa....Not a single one of them would be as kind as I have been to you.

Many of these are from the original churches that the original 12 founded. (I'm including Paul)
None are so callous as to do to scriptures what you are doing...they have magnitudes more fear and respect of God and the Bible than you.

When you disagree with scriptures...
When you disagree with every secular historian...
When you then steal a label...

Really...there's no explanation you have that is going to change the whole world's mind. The ONLY person who considers you a Christian is you. (You probably need to repent so maybe Jesus will take pity on you)

Me?
I believe in the UBS4 and Biblica Hebraica Stutengartsia (which is what most modern translation are made from)

Now the Jehovah witnesses and the Mormons try to claim that they are Christian too....but they are just like YOU.... stealing a label.

So.... you need to go to another thread to explain your own religion. Just don't use the label Christian because where you might be using parts of the Bible like a Mormon or JW.... you ain't one of us.

You're a nasty piece of work. and you aren't the only one who has lived all over the world.

" Abomination of desolation " is a phrase from the Book of Daniel describing the pagan sacrifices with which the 2nd century BCE Greek king Antiochus IV replaced the twice-daily offering in the Jewish temple, or alternatively the altar on which such offerings were made.

Abomination of desolation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination_of_desolation

 

[JohnDB]

Most Bible scholars, historians and archaeologists understand what Jesus said

Where not all of them believe in Jesus they ALL don't believe your view of history.

 

[JohnDB]

You're a nasty piece of work. and you aren't the only one who has lived all over the world.

" Abomination of desolation " is a phrase from the Book of Daniel describing the pagan sacrifices with which the 2nd century BCE Greek king Antiochus IV replaced the twice-daily offering in the Jewish temple, or alternatively the altar on which such offerings were made.

Abomination of desolation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination_of_desolation

Now you are using ad hominem attacks?

Just wave the white flag for all to see why doncha?

 

[surada]

Now you are using ad hominem attacks?

Just wave the white flag for all to see why doncha?

Calm down. You have been very ugly to me.

I think it is helpful when you are reading the Bible to look up when a prophet lived and who he was addressing so you have some historical context for the prophecies.

For instance.
The dating of Enoch varies from scholar to scholar. However, it seems most agree the earliest parts of the book were written during the pre-Maccabaean period. This would place it sometime before 164 B.C.E. Dates for the earliest portions have ranged from sometime in the 300's B.C.E. to 200 B.C.E.

This would place it sometime before 164 B.C.E. Dates for the earliest portions have ranged from sometime in the 300's B.C.E. to 200 B.C.E.

R. H. Charles was the leading expert on the subject in the early part of the 20th century. He argued the book of Enoch was written over a period of years.

The latest portions were written in 64 B.C.E. The earliest portions were written during the above mentioned pre-Maccabaean period. However, even Charles stopped short of claiming his dates as exact.


The Book of Enoch

The Book of Enoch

The book of Enoch belongs to a branch of literature known as the Apocrypha, or, the Apocalyptic Literature. However, at one point the book was considered divinely inspired Scripture. Jesus Ch

www.israel-a-history-of.com

 

[JohnDB]

Calm down. You have been very ugly to me.

I think it is helpful when you are reading the Bible to look up when a prophet lived and who he was addressing so you have some historical context for the prophecies.

For instance.
The dating of Enoch varies from scholar to scholar. However, it seems most agree the earliest parts of the book were written during the pre-Maccabaean period. This would place it sometime before 164 B.C.E. Dates for the earliest portions have ranged from sometime in the 300's B.C.E. to 200 B.C.E.

This would place it sometime before 164 B.C.E. Dates for the earliest portions have ranged from sometime in the 300's B.C.E. to 200 B.C.E.

R. H. Charles was the leading expert on the subject in the early part of the 20th century. He argued the book of Enoch was written over a period of years.

The latest portions were written in 64 B.C.E. The earliest portions were written during the above mentioned pre-Maccabaean period. However, even Charles stopped short of claiming his dates as exact.


The Book of Enoch

The Book of Enoch

The book of Enoch belongs to a branch of literature known as the Apocrypha, or, the Apocalyptic Literature. However, at one point the book was considered divinely inspired Scripture. Jesus Ch

www.israel-a-history-of.com

There's yet another proof that you are not a Christian...

The Book of Enoch is not scripture nor has anyone at anytime considered it to be such.

The "Left Behind" series is not scripture
"That Printer of Udell's" is not scripture.
"The Screwtape Letters" is not scripture...

All of these are religious fiction...just like The Book of Enoch is religious fiction.

And if you knew anything about the requirements for any writing to become scripture during Old Testament or New Testament time periods you would know that already. (The first chapter of the book declares itself not to be scripture)

And for the record....I'm not upset. I'm not the one who is using ad hominem attacks.

When you claim the things you have claimed you are by definition claiming to not be a Christian but yet you insist upon the title.

"I sweep the streets every day for wages so that means that I am the King" sort of statements you are making are making your religion very separate from Christianity very clear. You are not a Christian. Stop making such claims.

 

[surada]

There's yet another proof that you are not a Christian...

The Book of Enoch is not scripture nor has anyone at anytime considered it to be such.

The "Left Behind" series is not scripture
"That Printer of Udell's" is not scripture.
"The Screwtape Letters" is not scripture...

All of these are religious fiction...just like The Book of Enoch is religious fiction.

And if you knew anything about the requirements for any writing to become scripture during Old Testament or New Testament time periods you would know that already. (The first chapter of the book declares itself not to be scripture)

And for the record....I'm not upset. I'm not the one who is using ad hominem attacks.

When you claim the things you have claimed you are by definition claiming to not be a Christian but yet you insist upon the title.

"I sweep the streets every day for wages so that means that I am the King" sort of statements you are making are making your religion very separate from Christianity very clear. You are not a Christian. Stop making such claims.

Go back and read your posts. Are you unaware of your vicious insults?

LOLOL I know that Left Behind and Late Great Planet Earth are the work of fiction by charlatans... Likewise the Screwtapes and Enoch... that's why its helpful to look at when a prophet lived and who he was writing to. Enoch was written around the same time as Daniel.

The Jews who wrote Daniel were trying to give hope and encouragement to the people who lived thru Antiochus and the Maccabean Revolt.

 

[JohnDB]

Go back and read your posts. Are you unaware of your vicious insults?

LOLOL I know that Left Behind and Late Great Planet Earth are the work of fiction by charlatans... Likewise the Screwtapes and Enoch... that's why its helpful to look at when a prophet lived and who he was writing to. Enoch was written around the same time as Daniel.

The Jews who wrote Daniel were trying to give hope and encouragement to the people who lived thru Antiochus and the Maccabean Revolt.

Again with the assertions that Jesus and the New Testament and Old Testament writers lied...

Do you not understand how offensive that is to us Christians?
And yet you claim that I am being offensive...I'm not the one who is a street sweeper claiming to be ruler of the land. That's all on you bud.

 

[surada]

Again with the assertions that Jesus and the New Testament and Old Testament writers lied...

Do you not understand how offensive that is to us Christians?
And yet you claim that I am being offensive...I'm not the one who is a street sweeper claiming to be ruler of the land. That's all on you bud.

Lied? Who said anything about them lying?

 

[JohnDB]

Lied? Who said anything about them lying?

You did.

 

[JohnDB]

Either Daniel wrote the book of Daniel (as he said he did) or the whole Old Testament and New Testament are fabrications and lies.

No mixing and matching or himming or hawwing about it. It's either all perfectly true or it's not.

 

[The Original Tree]

Either Daniel wrote the book of Daniel (as he said he did) or the whole Old Testament and New Testament are fabrications and lies.

No mixing and matching or himming or hawwing about it. It's either all perfectly true or it's not.

The Tribulation is not only spoken of in Daniel and Revelation, it is covered in books like Jude, Isaiah, Ezekiel and others. It is a time like no other and has NEVER been seen before on Earth. This is why God Himself cuts it short or all life on Earth would be extinguished by it.

 

[The Original Tree]

You do not understand what Jesus said. Read it again.
Mark 13:14 So when you see the abomination of desolation ...

Mark 13:14 - The Abomination of Desolation

So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

biblehub.com

King James Bible. But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: New King James Version. “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in …

The Rapture nor the Tribulation have occurred yet. It is a time like no other on Earth and no one has ever seen and is so severe that God has to cut it short or all life on Earth would be extinguished by it. Antiochus, Hitler, Nero were all a type of AntiChrist but they are not the final and supreme AntiChrist who will only be revealed during The Tribulation.

None of these judgements below have happened yet, so neither The Tribulation or AntiChrist Kingdom have began. We may see some signs of both but neither will be revealed until Christ comes for His Bride, and The Restrainer is taken out of the way.

 

[JohnDB]

The Tribulation is not only spoken of in Daniel and Revelation, it is covered in books like Jude, Isaiah, Ezekiel and others. It is a time like no other and has NEVER been seen before on Earth. This is why God Himself cuts it short or all life on Earth would be extinguished by it.

That's not what I've been taking him to task about.
And your hermeneutics are understandable and do no violence to scripture whatsoever...

he has been saying that Daniel is a book of lies and the New Testament is full of all kinds of added junk...

Now I can go along with some reasonable hermeneutics...but to do as he has done? He flat out is not a Christian....can't trust our Bibles according to him. Can't trust the history taught all over the planet according to him either...

So...he has stolen the tag of Christian but he and Christians around the world are nothing alike.

 

[The Original Tree]

That's not what I've been taking him to task about.
And your hermeneutics are understandable and do no violence to scripture whatsoever...

he has been saying that Daniel is a book of lies and the New Testament is full of all kinds of added junk...

Now I can go along with some reasonable hermeneutics...but to do as he has done? He flat out is not a Christian....can't trust our Bibles according to him. Can't trust the history taught all over the planet according to him either...

So...he has stolen the tag of Christian but he and Christians around the world are nothing alike.

The Book of Daniel was so accurate that Historians had thought it was written after the fact. But archeologists keep finding older and older copies of it.

It predicted btw, down to the very day that Messiah would be cut off, and entered Jerusalem to be crucified.

Can't get more accurate than that.

 

[surada]

The Rapture nor the Tribulation have occurred yet. It is a time like no other on Earth and no one has ever seen and is so severe that God has to cut it short or all life on Earth would be extinguished by it. Antiochus, Hitler, Nero were all a type of AntiChrist but they are not the final and supreme AntiChrist who will only be revealed during The Tribulation.

None of these judgements below have happened yet, so neither The Tribulation or AntiChrist Kingdom have began. We may see some signs of both but neither will be revealed until Christ comes for His Bride, and The Restrainer is taken out of the way.

You don't understand the rapture at all and the tribulation was over when the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD. You should study scripture instead of Hal Lindsey.

The church is the bride of Christ .

 

[surada]

The Book of Daniel was so accurate that Historians had thought it was written after the fact. But archeologists keep finding older and older copies of it.

It predicted btw, down to the very day that Messiah would be cut off, and entered Jerusalem to be crucified.

Can't get more accurate than that.

Nope.. The oldest copy of Daniel is from the Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran about 150 BC.

You don't know what the Messiah being cut off means.