Would You Lock Your Doors

[Asclepias]

While it's true that not everything on the internet is real or accurate, we are also barraged with attempts to REVISE or IGNORE history coming from many special interests. So thankfully, a library at your fingertips comes in handy if you have a brain.. The number of slaves WILLINGLY serving in the Confederacy has ALWAYS been a mighty low number. So my only beef is with the academics noted in that Harvard article that want to REVISE or IGNORE the facts. Even if these guys were hauling cannons or cooking meals, they chose to follow. And the Confederacy deperately sought to increase their numbers as the war went on.

I'm surprised at the reference to Bull Run -- because I had always thought this happened much later in the War. You gotta imagine ALL the folks back at the plantation getting the news that the Master had died at war. Certainly Asclepias imagines a gala celebration of glee and celebration. Maybe some pissing in the kitchen. But in reality, the staff faced the prospects of being broken up and sold or inherited by some fluff head son or daughter that didn't inspire confidence. And I can see where if the son went off to war to avenge their father, SOME slaves may have chosen to go with him.. Not judging the choice, but there was more loyalty than 21st Century Black history wants you to believe.. NOBODY in that war was a spectator.

How does a slave choose to follow?

Don't believe you'd want the burden of taking people against their will into a combat zone.. Particularly when it's YOUR HONOR that they will reflect. I'm simply stating that towards the end of the war -- when the horror got brought home to ALL the people living there -- SOME of these black confederates may have expressed a desire to serve the family that was sacrificing lives in the war effort.

I'm sure this meme appears in southern FICTION. Not so certain that there are documented instances. But I'm willing to bet that there are..

I don't buy it. A slave had no choice to do what his or her master demanded. Death was the alternative.

That or his family back on the plantation would pay for his non performance.

 

[Mertex]

While it's true that not everything on the internet is real or accurate, we are also barraged with attempts to REVISE or IGNORE history coming from many special interests. So thankfully, a library at your fingertips comes in handy if you have a brain.. The number of slaves WILLINGLY serving in the Confederacy has ALWAYS been a mighty low number. So my only beef is with the academics noted in that Harvard article that want to REVISE or IGNORE the facts. Even if these guys were hauling cannons or cooking meals, they chose to follow. And the Confederacy deperately sought to increase their numbers as the war went on.

I'm surprised at the reference to Bull Run -- because I had always thought this happened much later in the War. You gotta imagine ALL the folks back at the plantation getting the news that the Master had died at war. Certainly Asclepias imagines a gala celebration of glee and celebration. Maybe some pissing in the kitchen. But in reality, the staff faced the prospects of being broken up and sold or inherited by some fluff head son or daughter that didn't inspire confidence. And I can see where if the son went off to war to avenge their father, SOME slaves may have chosen to go with him.. Not judging the choice, but there was more loyalty than 21st Century Black history wants you to believe.. NOBODY in that war was a spectator.

How does a slave choose to follow?

Don't believe you'd want the burden of taking people against their will into a combat zone.. Particularly when it's YOUR HONOR that they will reflect. I'm simply stating that towards the end of the war -- when the horror got brought home to ALL the people living there -- SOME of these black confederates may have expressed a desire to serve the family that was sacrificing lives in the war effort.

I'm sure this meme appears in southern FICTION. Not so certain that there are documented instances. But I'm willing to bet that there are..

Maybe they saw fighting in the war a more worthy cause (after all, it was for their freedom) and then they wouldn't have to suffer at the hands of some of the slave masters. I don't believe all the stories that have been told regarding the way some slaves were treated are all fake. We can see from what ensued after slaves were free that many still considered them subhuman. Our laws, having them attend separate schools, drink from separate water fountains, and sit in balconies of theaters are not made up, it is what was.

 

[flacaltenn]

While it's true that not everything on the internet is real or accurate, we are also barraged with attempts to REVISE or IGNORE history coming from many special interests. So thankfully, a library at your fingertips comes in handy if you have a brain.. The number of slaves WILLINGLY serving in the Confederacy has ALWAYS been a mighty low number. So my only beef is with the academics noted in that Harvard article that want to REVISE or IGNORE the facts. Even if these guys were hauling cannons or cooking meals, they chose to follow. And the Confederacy deperately sought to increase their numbers as the war went on.

I'm surprised at the reference to Bull Run -- because I had always thought this happened much later in the War. You gotta imagine ALL the folks back at the plantation getting the news that the Master had died at war. Certainly Asclepias imagines a gala celebration of glee and celebration. Maybe some pissing in the kitchen. But in reality, the staff faced the prospects of being broken up and sold or inherited by some fluff head son or daughter that didn't inspire confidence. And I can see where if the son went off to war to avenge their father, SOME slaves may have chosen to go with him.. Not judging the choice, but there was more loyalty than 21st Century Black history wants you to believe.. NOBODY in that war was a spectator.

How does a slave choose to follow?

Don't believe you'd want the burden of taking people against their will into a combat zone.. Particularly when it's YOUR HONOR that they will reflect. I'm simply stating that towards the end of the war -- when the horror got brought home to ALL the people living there -- SOME of these black confederates may have expressed a desire to serve the family that was sacrificing lives in the war effort.

I'm sure this meme appears in southern FICTION. Not so certain that there are documented instances. But I'm willing to bet that there are..

I don't buy it. A slave had no choice to do what his or her master demanded. Death was the alternative.

Tell that to the Harding family who OWNED the guy that was the premier horse husbandry expert in the South.. That slave had a staff and a budget and CONFERRED with the massa when he was wrong..

Same historically proven interactions in many of the plantations in the South where (as far as business was concerned) MANY slaves were valued members of the staff. You've been watching movies that portray the lives of MOST slaves, but the fact remains -- a considerable percentage had the respect and appreciation of the owners.

 

[flacaltenn]

Sgt. Andrew Martin Chandler of the 44th Mississippi Regiment, left, and Silas Chandler pose in this tintype, circa 1861. The tintype was recently donated to the Library of Congress. (Library of Congress)

 

[Asclepias]

Sgt. Andrew Martin Chandler of the 44th Mississippi Regiment, left, and Silas Chandler pose in this tintype, circa 1861. The tintype was recently donated to the Library of Congress. (Library of Congress)

Dude has a fake smile on his face if I ever saw one. His eyes tell a different story.

 

[flacaltenn]

Sgt. Andrew Martin Chandler of the 44th Mississippi Regiment, left, and Silas Chandler pose in this tintype, circa 1861. The tintype was recently donated to the Library of Congress. (Library of Congress)

Dude has a fake smile on his face if I ever saw one. His eyes tell a different story.

Can't argue with that. But how many pictures in the Library of Congress had that poor kid posed for before..

 

[flacaltenn]

And that pic was taken WAAAY before the war got real and close to home.

So is that slave "armed" ??? Massa doesn't stand a chance. Black dude is holding the only rifle...

 

[Asclepias]

And that pic was taken WAAAY before the war got real and close to home.

So is that slave "armed" ??? Massa doesn't stand a chance. Black dude is holding the only rifle...

You know good and well that thing is not loaded.

 

[flacaltenn]

And that pic was taken WAAAY before the war got real and close to home.

So is that slave "armed" ??? Massa doesn't stand a chance. Black dude is holding the only rifle...

You know good and well that thing is not loaded.

Black guy also has a much smaller knife.. You're right. Lots of contextual clues there.

 

[flacaltenn]

While it's true that not everything on the internet is real or accurate, we are also barraged with attempts to REVISE or IGNORE history coming from many special interests. So thankfully, a library at your fingertips comes in handy if you have a brain.. The number of slaves WILLINGLY serving in the Confederacy has ALWAYS been a mighty low number. So my only beef is with the academics noted in that Harvard article that want to REVISE or IGNORE the facts. Even if these guys were hauling cannons or cooking meals, they chose to follow. And the Confederacy deperately sought to increase their numbers as the war went on.

I'm surprised at the reference to Bull Run -- because I had always thought this happened much later in the War. You gotta imagine ALL the folks back at the plantation getting the news that the Master had died at war. Certainly Asclepias imagines a gala celebration of glee and celebration. Maybe some pissing in the kitchen. But in reality, the staff faced the prospects of being broken up and sold or inherited by some fluff head son or daughter that didn't inspire confidence. And I can see where if the son went off to war to avenge their father, SOME slaves may have chosen to go with him.. Not judging the choice, but there was more loyalty than 21st Century Black history wants you to believe.. NOBODY in that war was a spectator.

How does a slave choose to follow?

Don't believe you'd want the burden of taking people against their will into a combat zone.. Particularly when it's YOUR HONOR that they will reflect. I'm simply stating that towards the end of the war -- when the horror got brought home to ALL the people living there -- SOME of these black confederates may have expressed a desire to serve the family that was sacrificing lives in the war effort.

I'm sure this meme appears in southern FICTION. Not so certain that there are documented instances. But I'm willing to bet that there are..

Maybe they saw fighting in the war a more worthy cause (after all, it was for their freedom) and then they wouldn't have to suffer at the hands of some of the slave masters. I don't believe all the stories that have been told regarding the way some slaves were treated are all fake. We can see from what ensued after slaves were free that many still considered them subhuman. Our laws, having them attend separate schools, drink from separate water fountains, and sit in balconies of theaters are not made up, it is what was.

Absolutely.. Horrendous practice that was doomed to hell.
But the actual stories of HOW these folks survived and lived is more important to their honor than what horrors we might imagine.

About 2 miles from my place, across from the H.School my kids attended, is a graveyard smack in the middle of the boulevard. It has a small pull-out lane so you can stop there. It's the slave cemetery for the Plantation that owned about 300 acres in that area. The markers are fairly ornate with a couple standing in marble over 4 feet high belonging to a husband/wife who died about 1880's or so.. I can't vouch if those are the ORIGINAL markers. They sure LOOK that old. And I would understand from all the heritage sites that I've toured, that it wouldn't be unusual for the "masters" to have that much affection and appreciation for key members of their staff.

That MAY be why "house ******" is the term of choice for discrediting any black who might have politically incorrect views. And the MAJORITY of slaves who never went NEAR the big house would have a right to resent those special privileges and relationships. And TRUST me, I'm not asserting that the "house *******" were anywhere typical to the experience. But 1/2 of current Southern aristocracy was probably wet-nursed and RAISED by "house *******" at some point. And that reality means something to the current state of race relations in the South..

 

[flacaltenn]

I'm not a denier of the horrors of slavery. But folks ought to seek out some of the actual stories and history to HONOR and credit the dignity of those lives. And I hope I don't bore you with these local heritage stories, but I hear them all MANY times a year as I brings visitors and family to all of these places.

To answer Ravi and Mertex about weapons and status, I think the slavery page at the site for Andrew Jacksons home is typical of what I've found around here. Now Tennessee was divided over slavery BEFORE the war and nearly split over the issue at the beginning of the war. So OUR experience might have been more "liberal" than down in Miss/Ala.

Farm The Mansion Grounds The Hermitage


Enslaved African American men, women, and children were “quartered” in three different locations on the property, likely corresponding to their occupation and status in relation to the Jackson Family. The enslaved African Americans in domestic service for the Jacksons lived in the Mansion Backyard. Those who toiled in the fields lived in the more distant Field Quarter. It is not clear who was quartered at the First Hermitage, but it may have been enslaved African Americans who the Jacksons viewed as having special skills, such as blacksmithing.

Domestic and wild animal and fish bone suggest that the slaves hunted and fished for themselves to add to the provisions supplied by the Jacksons. Guns, knives, and fishing tools excavated from slave dwellings provide other evidence for these activities. The presence of coins, combined with documents that indicate payment to certain slaves, provide proof that they had money and therefore access to cash markets. They accumulated numerous possessions and probably traded with a local network of slaves from other plantations. Within each cabin we have excavated root cellars which all vary in their size and construction. Their presence in the standardized housing indicates that they were built by the slaves and may have been used to store food, their possessions, and possibly items that they wanted to hide from the Jacksons.

Although the slaves had some material possessions and lived in what would be considered larger than average slave dwellings, they were none-the-less not free. While Jackson cared for his slaves as evidenced by adequate food, housing, and the ability of the slave women to reproduce, slavery was a brutal and cruel system. When Jackson felt offenses were severe, he did permit slaves to be whipped and did post runaway notices.

We can hardly understand what it must have been like to be enslaved. But, through the things that these individuals left behind, we can glimpse how these African Americans survived.

Hannah and Aaron Jackson

Hannah Jackson, c. 1880Aaron was only six years old when he was bought by Andrew Jackson in 1791 and Hannah was less than twelve years old when purchased in 1794. As was common custom, Aaron and Hannah were likely named by their original owner and not provided with surnames. They took the surname “Jackson” following emancipation.

Hannah was Rachel Jackson’s “personal companion” and later became head of the “house servants.” Aaron was trained as a blacksmith, an important position on the plantation. Hannah and Aaron married around 1820 and raised ten children who all lived to adulthood. Their names were Byron, Rachel, Charlotte, Moses, Mary, Martha, Abraham, Ned, Margaret Ellen, and George Washington.

Hannah was present at the death of both Rachel and Andrew Jackson. When Andrew Jackson Junior and his wife Sarah briefly moved to Mississippi in between 1858 and 1860, they entrusted care of The Hermitage to Hannah and Aaron.

Despite the seemingly close relationship between Hannah and Aaron, and the Jackson Family, Hannah and her daughter Martha fled The Hermitage to Nashville to gain their freedom during the Civil War even though the slaves had not yet been freed. In Nashville Hannah worked as a midwife and Aaron as a huckster. Aaron died in 1878 and Hannah about 1895.

SNIP SNIP (you should read the rest of the page) Goes on about her descendents.


Betty’s son Alfred assisted with the horses, maintained the wagons and the farm equipment, and after emancipation was a tenant farmer on The Hermitage. He lived at The Hermitage longer than anyone, white or black, and worked as a handyman and tour guide for the Ladies’ Hermitage Association when the house opened as a museum. He died in 1901 and his funeral was held in the center hall of the mansion. Alfred is buried in the Hermitage garden, near Jackson’s tomb.

George’s wife Amanthus lived on another plantation and we know nothing about their children. In the late 1840’s, Amanthus’ owner moved to Memphis and the Jacksons hired George out to a Donelson relative there so he could be near her. Squire Hayes and his wife Gincy (b. 1811), a weaver, had at least fourteen children (Morgan, Betty, Amanthus, Alexander, Buck, Hannah, Jim, Matilda, Cancer, George/Davy, Smith, Molly, Squire, Tom). Squire and Gincy lived in the Hermitage neighborhood after emancipation.

Now maybe this bores or offends some people with "packaged" views of Southern history. But this goes back to the OP and the Confed flag as a symbol of the South. So how are these stories are NOT "southern heritage" ?? And how do you HONESTLY tell them without identifying the connections to the rest of society ? Folks flying that flag KNOW these stories. MOST of them are horrified by slavery and abuse. But that is the HISTORY of the area.

 

[JakeStarkey]

In east Texas that were certain subcultures of people around whom you would be more vigilant.

Rednecks with Confederate flags is one of those groups.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"Now maybe this bores or offends some people with "packaged" views of Southern history. But this goes back to the OP and the Confed flag as a symbol of the South. So how are these stories are NOT "southern heritage" ?? And how do you HONESTLY tell them without identifying the connections to the rest of society ? Folks flying that flag KNOW these stories. MOST of them are horrified by slavery and abuse. But that is the HISTORY of the area."

Absolutely true but no excuse for misbranding the use of the flag today.

 

[flacaltenn]

"Now maybe this bores or offends some people with "packaged" views of Southern history. But this goes back to the OP and the Confed flag as a symbol of the South. So how are these stories are NOT "southern heritage" ?? And how do you HONESTLY tell them without identifying the connections to the rest of society ? Folks flying that flag KNOW these stories. MOST of them are horrified by slavery and abuse. But that is the HISTORY of the area."

Absolutely true but no excuse for misbranding the use of the flag today.

I'm not in control of how folks misbrand that flag Jakey. Mr A takes a piss on it every Juneteenth which (with a couple beers) I might join him.
But what folks need to understand is that in the South, part of that heritage behind the flag is that the term "house ******" is a term of endearment and affection rather than it's Northern meaning.

And that being a "house ******" during slavery meant that the owners could leave you the keys and put you in charge of the entire plantation while they were gone. And it might have gotten you buried just steps away from the house master that was a President of the USA BEFORE the war..

 

[Ravi]

While it's true that not everything on the internet is real or accurate, we are also barraged with attempts to REVISE or IGNORE history coming from many special interests. So thankfully, a library at your fingertips comes in handy if you have a brain.. The number of slaves WILLINGLY serving in the Confederacy has ALWAYS been a mighty low number. So my only beef is with the academics noted in that Harvard article that want to REVISE or IGNORE the facts. Even if these guys were hauling cannons or cooking meals, they chose to follow. And the Confederacy deperately sought to increase their numbers as the war went on.

I'm surprised at the reference to Bull Run -- because I had always thought this happened much later in the War. You gotta imagine ALL the folks back at the plantation getting the news that the Master had died at war. Certainly Asclepias imagines a gala celebration of glee and celebration. Maybe some pissing in the kitchen. But in reality, the staff faced the prospects of being broken up and sold or inherited by some fluff head son or daughter that didn't inspire confidence. And I can see where if the son went off to war to avenge their father, SOME slaves may have chosen to go with him.. Not judging the choice, but there was more loyalty than 21st Century Black history wants you to believe.. NOBODY in that war was a spectator.

How does a slave choose to follow?

Don't believe you'd want the burden of taking people against their will into a combat zone.. Particularly when it's YOUR HONOR that they will reflect. I'm simply stating that towards the end of the war -- when the horror got brought home to ALL the people living there -- SOME of these black confederates may have expressed a desire to serve the family that was sacrificing lives in the war effort.

I'm sure this meme appears in southern FICTION. Not so certain that there are documented instances. But I'm willing to bet that there are..

Maybe they saw fighting in the war a more worthy cause (after all, it was for their freedom) and then they wouldn't have to suffer at the hands of some of the slave masters. I don't believe all the stories that have been told regarding the way some slaves were treated are all fake. We can see from what ensued after slaves were free that many still considered them subhuman. Our laws, having them attend separate schools, drink from separate water fountains, and sit in balconies of theaters are not made up, it is what was.

If they were fighting for their freedom the would have fought for the other side.

I'm sure some slaves were treated like pets. That doesn't mean they had choices.

 

[Ravi]

While it's true that not everything on the internet is real or accurate, we are also barraged with attempts to REVISE or IGNORE history coming from many special interests. So thankfully, a library at your fingertips comes in handy if you have a brain.. The number of slaves WILLINGLY serving in the Confederacy has ALWAYS been a mighty low number. So my only beef is with the academics noted in that Harvard article that want to REVISE or IGNORE the facts. Even if these guys were hauling cannons or cooking meals, they chose to follow. And the Confederacy deperately sought to increase their numbers as the war went on.

I'm surprised at the reference to Bull Run -- because I had always thought this happened much later in the War. You gotta imagine ALL the folks back at the plantation getting the news that the Master had died at war. Certainly Asclepias imagines a gala celebration of glee and celebration. Maybe some pissing in the kitchen. But in reality, the staff faced the prospects of being broken up and sold or inherited by some fluff head son or daughter that didn't inspire confidence. And I can see where if the son went off to war to avenge their father, SOME slaves may have chosen to go with him.. Not judging the choice, but there was more loyalty than 21st Century Black history wants you to believe.. NOBODY in that war was a spectator.

How does a slave choose to follow?

Don't believe you'd want the burden of taking people against their will into a combat zone.. Particularly when it's YOUR HONOR that they will reflect. I'm simply stating that towards the end of the war -- when the horror got brought home to ALL the people living there -- SOME of these black confederates may have expressed a desire to serve the family that was sacrificing lives in the war effort.

I'm sure this meme appears in southern FICTION. Not so certain that there are documented instances. But I'm willing to bet that there are..

I don't buy it. A slave had no choice to do what his or her master demanded. Death was the alternative.

Tell that to the Harding family who OWNED the guy that was the premier horse husbandry expert in the South.. That slave had a staff and a budget and CONFERRED with the massa when he was wrong..

Same historically proven interactions in many of the plantations in the South where (as far as business was concerned) MANY slaves were valued members of the staff. You've been watching movies that portray the lives of MOST slaves, but the fact remains -- a considerable percentage had the respect and appreciation of the owners.

I haven't been watching any movies.

If it comforts you to think slaves enjoy their bondage have at it.

 

[Ravi]

Sgt. Andrew Martin Chandler of the 44th Mississippi Regiment, left, and Silas Chandler pose in this tintype, circa 1861. The tintype was recently donated to the Library of Congress. (Library of Congress)

Is that supposed to prove Chandler was there by choice?

What was his rank, btw?

 

[flacaltenn]

I'm sure some slaves were treated like pets. That doesn't mean they had choices.

You put your pets in charge of your massive home and place of business while you bop off to Cabo??

 

[Ravi]

Sgt. Andrew Martin Chandler of the 44th Mississippi Regiment, left, and Silas Chandler pose in this tintype, circa 1861. The tintype was recently donated to the Library of Congress. (Library of Congress)

Dude has a fake smile on his face if I ever saw one. His eyes tell a different story.

I don't see a smile. I see empty eyes.

 

[flacaltenn]

Sgt. Andrew Martin Chandler of the 44th Mississippi Regiment, left, and Silas Chandler pose in this tintype, circa 1861. The tintype was recently donated to the Library of Congress. (Library of Congress)

Is that supposed to prove Chandler was there by choice?

What was his rank, btw?

Did the Sargent owner go to war by choice? I don't know the answer to either of those. But as I said, you would not drag someone unwillingly onto a battlefield. Especially someone you valued highly enough to sit with you in an expensive portrait as you prepared for battle..