Would you raise the interest rate on your own mortgage or credit card?

[kaz]

Kindly refrain from being a dick.

Actually the prior downgrade had a lot more to do with spending than raising the debt ceiling. As demonstrated when the debt ceiling was raised, the credit downgrade remained in place.

This is your first ignore warning.

Your grasp of how credit ratings are allocated leaves a lot to be desired. If you miss a payment on your credit card and your rating is subsequently downgraded making up the missing payment won't reinstate your credit rating.

Not immediately, but the score will recover quickly enough for those that maintain their lifestyle. The only exception would be for those with few years of credit history.

He's using it as an analogy for the government though, and two points he keeps ignoring which have been made to him are:

1) Not raising the debt ceiling doesn't mean we would default at all. Liberals like to pretend that if the limit isn't raised then we would not pay debt. Actually, government could still spend all the revenue (taxes) coming in, and that is more than ample to pay all our debt payments and more. All they can't do is spend more money than they take in.

2) When they downgraded our debt, and we reached a deal and raised the spending limit, our debt remained downgraded. They even said we're spending ourselves stupid in their justification.

I also pointed out that raising the cap isn't just about interest rates, we are also just spending too much money and raising the cap allows them to just keep spending. It isn't just to pay interest payments.

Basically he wants to ignore the entire discussion other than those points self serving to his argument.

 

[itfitzme]

This is your first ignore warning

Only a liberal would say, wow, you used an example where your wife spends too much money, that means you hate women. And then turn around and still claim to be taking the high road. When you did that, you were being a dick. Knock it off and stop whining when you dish it out and get it back. Either don't dish it out, or don't whine when you get it back. But pick.

As for interest rates, you're not following the discussion so this is just dull now.

The problem is, KAZ, you demonstrate yourself to be ignorant with every post. You have no evidence, no basic theory, which with to back up your claims.

"liberal"
"you hate women"
"taking the high road"
"you were being a dick"
"Knock it off"
"stop whining"

None of these have anything to do with the concept of credit ratings. You have nothing more than emotionally based bullshit, like they have any bearing on anything.

 

[itfitzme]

This is your first ignore warning.

Your grasp of how credit ratings are allocated leaves a lot to be desired. If you miss a payment on your credit card and your rating is subsequently downgraded making up the missing payment won't reinstate your credit rating.

Not immediately, but the score will recover quickly enough for those that maintain their lifestyle. The only exception would be for those with few years of credit history.

He's using it as an analogy for the government though, and two points he keeps ignoring which have been made to him are:

1) Not raising the debt ceiling doesn't mean we would default at all. Liberals like to pretend that if the limit isn't raised then we would not pay debt. Actually, government could still spend all the revenue (taxes) coming in, and that is more than ample to pay all our debt payments and more. All they can't do is spend more money than they take in.

2) When they downgraded our debt, and we reached a deal and raised the spending limit, our debt remained downgraded. They even said we're spending ourselves stupid in their justification.

I also pointed out that raising the cap isn't just about interest rates, we are also just spending too much money and raising the cap allows them to just keep spending. It isn't just to pay interest payments.

Basically he wants to ignore the entire discussion other than those points self serving to his argument.

Well, apparently you are full of shit.

Introduction: 6 Consequences if the Debt Ceiling Isn't Raised - US News & World Report

“Congress has until around August 2 to raise the legal limit on debt, or the United States will risk going into default, according to the U.S. Treasury Department”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/26/b...of-potential-default-by-mid-october.html?_r=0

“The Treasury has handed Congress an urgent deadline: Oct. 17.” “On that day, unless Congress were to raise the debt ceiling, the Treasury would have only $30 billion cash on hand, putting the United States on the precipice of an unprecedented default, the department said on Wednesday.”

Debt Limit

“Failing to increase the debt limit would have catastrophic economic consequences. It would cause the government to default on its legal obligations – an unprecedented event in American history. That would precipitate another financial crisis and threaten the jobs and savings of everyday Americans – putting the United States right back in a deep economic hole, just as the country is recovering from the recent recession. “


So, according to the Treasury Department, you are wrong.

You might want to go look things up before you post. I do. That's why I find that the Treasury Department says the government would default.

Do you have some other take on that word "default"?

Are you claiming the Treasury Department is a "liberal" organization and is lying?

Do you have some information that the Treasury Department doesn't? Hey, I get the concept that you present, "All they can't do is spend more money than they take in.". Problem is, the Treasury Department doesn't agree.

 

[itfitzme]

Why am I suppose to believe KAZ? I've seen nothing yet that demonstrates any real and accurate info. What I got, when I found actual specifics and followed up with research, says the opposite.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Would you raise the interest rate on your own mortgage or credit card?

Sounds like a really stupid question because no one wants to pay more than they have to when it comes to borrowing money, right?

But if the Debt Ceiling is not raised the credit rating of the USA could be downgraded again and that will mean that the interest rate that We the People will have to pay will go up.

Since it is going to be us taxpayers who are paying that interest does it make any sense at all to increase the rate that we are going to have to pay?

Damn, you have an incredible knack for saying things that make stupid look like Einstein.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Kindly refrain from being a dick.

Actually the prior downgrade had a lot more to do with spending than raising the debt ceiling. As demonstrated when the debt ceiling was raised, the credit downgrade remained in place.

This is your first ignore warning.

Your grasp of how credit ratings are allocated leaves a lot to be desired. If you miss a payment on your credit card and your rating is subsequently downgraded making up the missing payment won't reinstate your credit rating.

Not immediately, but the score will recover quickly enough for those that maintain their lifestyle. The only exception would be for those with few years of credit history.

The US credit rating has not recovered since it was downgraded back in August 2011.

 

[itfitzme]

Would you raise the interest rate on your own mortgage or credit card?

Sounds like a really stupid question because no one wants to pay more than they have to when it comes to borrowing money, right?

But if the Debt Ceiling is not raised the credit rating of the USA could be downgraded again and that will mean that the interest rate that We the People will have to pay will go up.

Since it is going to be us taxpayers who are paying that interest does it make any sense at all to increase the rate that we are going to have to pay?

Damn, you have an incredible knack for saying things that make stupid look like Einstein.

What are you talking about?

The answers are

1) No one would raise the interest rate on their mortgage or credit card.

2) Right.

3) This is apparently true, that not raising the debt ceiling will result in
a) the US gov't defaulting on it's obligations.
b) The markets demanding a higher rate on t-bills.

4) No.

So, it appears that you are the one that makes stupid look like Einstein. Especially given that a) you said nothing of substance and b) your wrong about what you didn't manage to say.

 

[kaz]

Not immediately, but the score will recover quickly enough for those that maintain their lifestyle. The only exception would be for those with few years of credit history.

He's using it as an analogy for the government though, and two points he keeps ignoring which have been made to him are:

1) Not raising the debt ceiling doesn't mean we would default at all. Liberals like to pretend that if the limit isn't raised then we would not pay debt. Actually, government could still spend all the revenue (taxes) coming in, and that is more than ample to pay all our debt payments and more. All they can't do is spend more money than they take in.

2) When they downgraded our debt, and we reached a deal and raised the spending limit, our debt remained downgraded. They even said we're spending ourselves stupid in their justification.

I also pointed out that raising the cap isn't just about interest rates, we are also just spending too much money and raising the cap allows them to just keep spending. It isn't just to pay interest payments.

Basically he wants to ignore the entire discussion other than those points self serving to his argument.

Well, apparently you are full of shit.

Introduction: 6 Consequences if the Debt Ceiling Isn't Raised - US News & World Report

“Congress has until around August 2 to raise the legal limit on debt, or the United States will risk going into default, according to the U.S. Treasury Department”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/26/b...of-potential-default-by-mid-october.html?_r=0

“The Treasury has handed Congress an urgent deadline: Oct. 17.” “On that day, unless Congress were to raise the debt ceiling, the Treasury would have only $30 billion cash on hand, putting the United States on the precipice of an unprecedented default, the department said on Wednesday.”

Debt Limit

“Failing to increase the debt limit would have catastrophic economic consequences. It would cause the government to default on its legal obligations – an unprecedented event in American history. That would precipitate another financial crisis and threaten the jobs and savings of everyday Americans – putting the United States right back in a deep economic hole, just as the country is recovering from the recent recession. “


So, according to the Treasury Department, you are wrong.

You might want to go look things up before you post. I do. That's why I find that the Treasury Department says the government would default.

Do you have some other take on that word "default"?

Are you claiming the Treasury Department is a "liberal" organization and is lying?

Do you have some information that the Treasury Department doesn't? Hey, I get the concept that you present, "All they can't do is spend more money than they take in.". Problem is, the Treasury Department doesn't agree.

The treasury department isn't biased in the question of whether they only get revenues coming in or they get to spend more than they take in. Got it.

When you can explain how interest payments on the debt is greater than tax receipts, get back to me.

 

[itfitzme]

I learn so much by taking something specific that someone says and researching it. Invariably, the likes of KAZ turn out to be completely wrong. How is it that they can be so completely wrong when it is so simple to just go look it up?

I will tell you how. They experience their world, not through their eyes and ears, but through their feelings. They organize it according to "I like it/don't like it". So, when they like the conclusion that they reach, they believe it must be true because it is what they like. It is the hallmark of stupidity.

 

[kaz]

This is your first ignore warning.

Your grasp of how credit ratings are allocated leaves a lot to be desired. If you miss a payment on your credit card and your rating is subsequently downgraded making up the missing payment won't reinstate your credit rating.

Not immediately, but the score will recover quickly enough for those that maintain their lifestyle. The only exception would be for those with few years of credit history.

The US credit rating has not recovered since it was downgraded back in August 2011.

Ding, ding, ding. The issue is spending, not credit limits. When the limits were raised, the downgrade stayed in place. I wish I'd pointed that out. Wait, I did...

 

[Derideo_Te]

This is your first ignore warning.

Your grasp of how credit ratings are allocated leaves a lot to be desired. If you miss a payment on your credit card and your rating is subsequently downgraded making up the missing payment won't reinstate your credit rating.

Not immediately, but the score will recover quickly enough for those that maintain their lifestyle. The only exception would be for those with few years of credit history.

He's using it as an analogy for the government though, and two points he keeps ignoring which have been made to him are:

1) Not raising the debt ceiling doesn't mean we would default at all. Liberals like to pretend that if the limit isn't raised then we would not pay debt. Actually, government could still spend all the revenue (taxes) coming in, and that is more than ample to pay all our debt payments and more. All they can't do is spend more money than they take in.

2) When they downgraded our debt, and we reached a deal and raised the spending limit, our debt remained downgraded. They even said we're spending ourselves stupid in their justification.

I also pointed out that raising the cap isn't just about interest rates, we are also just spending too much money and raising the cap allows them to just keep spending. It isn't just to pay interest payments.

Basically he wants to ignore the entire discussion other than those points self serving to his argument.

The OP was directed at the wisdom of risking a further downgrade to the US credit rating.

There is a very real cost to the American taxpayers from the previous downgrade;

United States federal government credit-rating downgrade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, based on historical information from Bloomberg the cost to insure U.S. debts against default has risen from an average of around 25 basis points in 2007 to a range from 55 to 75 basis points in 2011. A higher cost of insurance is typically associated with increased risk of default.

So the topic on the table remains is it a good idea to do something that will cost taxpayers more money than necessary? Given how bent out of shape the right is when it comes to "spending" surely this kind of reckless action that will incur more "spending" than necessary falls under the heading of "waste".

It is therefore hypocritical to accuse the government of "spending" and "waste" when it was directly incurred by the unconstitutional actions of the right themselves.

 

[itfitzme]

He's using it as an analogy for the government though, and two points he keeps ignoring which have been made to him are:

1) Not raising the debt ceiling doesn't mean we would default at all. Liberals like to pretend that if the limit isn't raised then we would not pay debt. Actually, government could still spend all the revenue (taxes) coming in, and that is more than ample to pay all our debt payments and more. All they can't do is spend more money than they take in.

2) When they downgraded our debt, and we reached a deal and raised the spending limit, our debt remained downgraded. They even said we're spending ourselves stupid in their justification.

I also pointed out that raising the cap isn't just about interest rates, we are also just spending too much money and raising the cap allows them to just keep spending. It isn't just to pay interest payments.

Basically he wants to ignore the entire discussion other than those points self serving to his argument.

Well, apparently you are full of shit.

Introduction: 6 Consequences if the Debt Ceiling Isn't Raised - US News & World Report

“Congress has until around August 2 to raise the legal limit on debt, or the United States will risk going into default, according to the U.S. Treasury Department”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/26/b...of-potential-default-by-mid-october.html?_r=0

“The Treasury has handed Congress an urgent deadline: Oct. 17.” “On that day, unless Congress were to raise the debt ceiling, the Treasury would have only $30 billion cash on hand, putting the United States on the precipice of an unprecedented default, the department said on Wednesday.”

Debt Limit

“Failing to increase the debt limit would have catastrophic economic consequences. It would cause the government to default on its legal obligations – an unprecedented event in American history. That would precipitate another financial crisis and threaten the jobs and savings of everyday Americans – putting the United States right back in a deep economic hole, just as the country is recovering from the recent recession. “


So, according to the Treasury Department, you are wrong.

You might want to go look things up before you post. I do. That's why I find that the Treasury Department says the government would default.

Do you have some other take on that word "default"?

Are you claiming the Treasury Department is a "liberal" organization and is lying?

Do you have some information that the Treasury Department doesn't? Hey, I get the concept that you present, "All they can't do is spend more money than they take in.". Problem is, the Treasury Department doesn't agree.

The treasury department isn't biased in the question of whether they only get revenues coming in or they get to spend more than they take in. Got it.

When you can explain how interest payments on the debt is greater than tax receipts, get back to me.

Dude, your simply wrong. The government has specific obligations that it must pay by law. After those are paid, it doesn't have any more money. It can't pay the t-bill interest first. It's the law.

You don't know what your talking about. You have no reference to back up your bullshit.

The Treasury Department says you are full of shit.

 

[kaz]

I learn so much by taking something specific that someone says and researching it. Invariably, the likes of KAZ turn out to be completely wrong. How is it that they can be so completely wrong when it is so simple to just go look it up?

I will tell you how. They experience their world, not through their eyes and ears, but through their feelings. They organize it according to "I like it/don't like it". So, when they like the conclusion that they reach, they believe it must be true because it is what they like. It is the hallmark of stupidity.

No wonder Wall Street sucks, I'm an MBA in finance who spent most of my career in the financial services industry. At GE and in New York.

Still waiting for your explanation how we can't pay debt when tax revenue is greater than debt payments by a large margin.

 

[Derideo_Te]

This is your first ignore warning

Only a liberal would say, wow, you used an example where your wife spends too much money, that means you hate women. And then turn around and still claim to be taking the high road. When you did that, you were being a dick. Knock it off and stop whining when you dish it out and get it back. Either don't dish it out, or don't whine when you get it back. But pick.

As for interest rates, you're not following the discussion so this is just dull now.

I issued that warning for several reasons.

1. In your thread where I first encountered your posts I politely asked you to substantiate your allegations multiple times. You refused to do so thereby establishing that you make baseless allegations.

2. Your first post in this thread was not only a deflection from the OP but was also derogatory baseless accusations.

3. I called you on them and then you started lying and name calling.

That was when I issued you with your first ignore warning. Keep up this behavior and you will be ignored. I refuse to tolerate unacceptable posting practices. Yes, these are my personal "rules" and there is nothing arbitrary about them. I set a standard for my own posts and I expect other posters to respect them.

This is your final warning. I have responded to your other post. If you cannot reply in a civil manner all of your future posts will be ignored.

 

[kaz]

Well, apparently you are full of shit.

Introduction: 6 Consequences if the Debt Ceiling Isn't Raised - US News & World Report

“Congress has until around August 2 to raise the legal limit on debt, or the United States will risk going into default, according to the U.S. Treasury Department”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/26/b...of-potential-default-by-mid-october.html?_r=0

“The Treasury has handed Congress an urgent deadline: Oct. 17.” “On that day, unless Congress were to raise the debt ceiling, the Treasury would have only $30 billion cash on hand, putting the United States on the precipice of an unprecedented default, the department said on Wednesday.”

Debt Limit

“Failing to increase the debt limit would have catastrophic economic consequences. It would cause the government to default on its legal obligations – an unprecedented event in American history. That would precipitate another financial crisis and threaten the jobs and savings of everyday Americans – putting the United States right back in a deep economic hole, just as the country is recovering from the recent recession. “


So, according to the Treasury Department, you are wrong.

You might want to go look things up before you post. I do. That's why I find that the Treasury Department says the government would default.

Do you have some other take on that word "default"?

Are you claiming the Treasury Department is a "liberal" organization and is lying?

Do you have some information that the Treasury Department doesn't? Hey, I get the concept that you present, "All they can't do is spend more money than they take in.". Problem is, the Treasury Department doesn't agree.

The treasury department isn't biased in the question of whether they only get revenues coming in or they get to spend more than they take in. Got it.

When you can explain how interest payments on the debt is greater than tax receipts, get back to me.

Dude, your simply wrong. The government has specific obligations that it must pay by law. After those are paid, it doesn't have any more money. It can't pay the t-bill interest first. It's the law.

You don't know what your talking about. You have no reference to back up your bullshit.

The Treasury Department says you are full of shit.

Obligations. Yes, we promised welfare and the law is that we pay it.

You lose again, it's in the Constitution that we have to pay our debts. So that takes priority. Are you going to cut out all my points like you did last time and say I didn't respond to the points when I did, and you just cut them out of the quote?

 

[itfitzme]

Not immediately, but the score will recover quickly enough for those that maintain their lifestyle. The only exception would be for those with few years of credit history.

The US credit rating has not recovered since it was downgraded back in August 2011.

Ding, ding, ding. The issue is spending, not credit limits. When the limits were raised, the downgrade stayed in place. I wish I'd pointed that out. Wait, I did...

Shoving your head up your ass doesn't make you right, it makes you ignorant.

 

[Toro]

misogynistic comments? OMG, it was your wife in your example, your wife is a women. you HATE women. dude, now you're just being a dick.

OK, I'll explain the obvious to you one more time. You said that if we don't raise the debt ceiling that interest rates will go up, and that would be stupid. it's an assumption, but let's say it's true. I said that if we raise the debt limit, government will spend more, and that would be a higher price than higher interest.

That is just so completely obviously directly addressing your op. if you want to report me, go ahead. But you're just being thick.

Kindly refrain from projecting your own shortcomings onto others.

The previous failure to raise the debt ceiling resulted in the US credit rating being downgraded. Credit ratings are directly tied to borrowing interest rates. Higher ratings mean lower interest rates and vice versa.

Kindly refrain from being a dick.

Actually the prior downgrade had a lot more to do with spending than raising the debt ceiling. As demonstrated when the debt ceiling was raised, the credit downgrade remained in place.

It had to do with the political disfunction that increased the odds an interest payment would not be made on time. Ergo, it had more to do with debt ceiling.

 

[itfitzme]

The treasury department isn't biased in the question of whether they only get revenues coming in or they get to spend more than they take in. Got it.

When you can explain how interest payments on the debt is greater than tax receipts, get back to me.

Dude, your simply wrong. The government has specific obligations that it must pay by law. After those are paid, it doesn't have any more money. It can't pay the t-bill interest first. It's the law.

You don't know what your talking about. You have no reference to back up your bullshit.

The Treasury Department says you are full of shit.

Obligations. Yes, we promised welfare and the law is that we pay it.

You lose again, it's in the Constitution that we have to pay our debts. So that takes priority. Are you going to cut out all my points like you did last time and say I didn't respond to the points when I did, and you just cut them out of the quote?

What the fuck are you talking about? You surely realize that you make yourself look stupid. You can't make other people not see your stupid by pretending you don't understand. Reality doesn't work that way.

So, your saying the Treasury Department is wrong? They do the accounting for a living. I am pretty sure they are the authority.

Really, what the fuck do you think you are talking about?

 

[itfitzme]

Kindly refrain from projecting your own shortcomings onto others.

The previous failure to raise the debt ceiling resulted in the US credit rating being downgraded. Credit ratings are directly tied to borrowing interest rates. Higher ratings mean lower interest rates and vice versa.

Kindly refrain from being a dick.

Actually the prior downgrade had a lot more to do with spending than raising the debt ceiling. As demonstrated when the debt ceiling was raised, the credit downgrade remained in place.

It had to do with the political disfunction that increased the odds an interest payment would not be made on time. Ergo, it had more to do with debt ceiling.

That brings up an interesting question. How are the "odds" determined given that it didn't happen? Statisticians do tons of analysis of probabilities for accidents and credit risk. But that is on a huge population of individuals. How can odds be done on a single country/govt?

 

[Toro]

So the solution to your maxed out credit card is to raise the limit of debt you can accumulate?

There's no reason to default on anything

It's true. We can't afford a dime of new debt, regardless of how fast the economy grows.

"liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate farmers, liquidate real estate... it will purge the rottenness out of the system."

Of course we can afford more debt regardless of how fast the economy grows.

What matters is not the absolute debt but the debt relative to output. If the debt is growing at 4% and nominal GDP is increasing at 6%, then the financial condition of the country is improving. An increase in the debt may not be the optimal outcome but we can certainly afford it if its growing less fast than the nominal output of the economy.