WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE A FUTURE PERSONAL INVESTMENT ACCOUNT,instead of government ...

[OohPooPahDoo]

I have done the math based on the lowest average rate of return for interest and/or real estate and/or solid conservative investments.

How do you know what that rate will be in the future?

And even with the black Friday of the Dot.com bubble and the devasting crash of the housing bubble bursting, and you had to retire at that time, you STILL do fourfold better than you can ever hope to do with Social Security.

Huh? That all happened in the past. Sorry but you can't invest for retirement based on PAST returns! Life would be easy if that were the case! I'd just drop all my money into the stock market in 1940 or so and in 15 years be filthy rich! Unless you've got a time machine I don't see how you scheme of investing in PAST market returns will work.

What happens to you if social security runs out before you die? If we get a snarky Congress that just ends the program for anybody other than totally destitute people?

Sounds like a Congress that would never get elected in the first place and certainly woudn't make it past the next one if they were.

Are you happy subsisting on around $1000 or so a month?

No - that's why I invest in an IRA as well, into more risky investments.

A concept of personal responsibility is that you manage your money and accept the consequences for mismanaging it.

I would consider investing based on PAST market performance to be a gross mismanagement of money with potentially severe negative consequences.


Its funny how everyone who advocates for private investment accounts centered around personal resposnibility has the most irresponsible attitudes towards investing imaginable. Have you ever read the disclaimer on a mutual fund prospectus? Something like "past returns are no indication of future performance" - do you get what that means? Because it doesn't look like you do.

 

[Ed Spacer]

No subsidies.nothing.
The interest is fed from the remainder of the held monies from the general fubd.
eliminating the SSA abd its cost imposition on what used to be taxpayers.

 

[Ed Spacer]

With citizen control,there are no variables to change the accuring interest.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yes,sir,inflation protected.
why?
because youre in co nt rol of it,no obe else.

How the hell are you going to achieve a 3% return in additon to inflation? On average that would be a 6.5% or so nominal return - what kind of risk-free investment can return that without depending on government subsidy?

Your solution to SS is to replace it with a system where the government guarantees a 6.5% nominal rate on money market accounts? Wow - way to wean us off the taxpayers support! LOL!

The money we have in real estate has beaten the rate of inflation many times over. And that inclludes the considerable loss in real estate value we've seen since the housing bubble crash.

We have taken some severe hits in our market investments, but they still continue to beat the rate of inflation many times over.

These days interest is more iffy. During the Carter administration and the first few years of the Reagan administration, however, our money market accounts were earning in or near double digit amounts and, if we could just avoid spending that money until interest rates and inflation returned to normal (which we did), we were then way ahead.

But the government does nothing to grow our social security accounts. It spends the money as quickly as it hits the treasury. And you still can't get around the fact that it will dole your social security monies out at a rate that provides the most barest subsistance, if even that, and will keep all that you paid in if you die before you collect it.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

No subsidies.nothing.
The interest is fed from the remainder of the held monies from the general fubd.
eliminating the SSA abd its cost imposition on what used to be taxpayers.

And when that fund runs out?
you're clearl a retard and there's no point in talking to you anymore.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Obviously no ones reading this.
has nothing to do with freakin wallstreet.
its a personal future savings account.

No one is stopping you from establishing a pesonal savings account. And no one will gurantee the safety of the personal savings account, no one except the Federal Government if your savings are in a FDIC protected account.

If, for example, you invested your life savings in Lehman Brothers you would have had no guarantee. When they went bankrupt in 2008 you would have lost everything.

Why is that so hard for some people to understand? Oh...yeah,

 

[Mr Natural]

Obviously no ones reading this.
has nothing to do with freakin wallstreet.
its a personal future savings account.

And how is it's rate of return calculated?

 

[Foxfyre]

Obviously no ones reading this.
has nothing to do with freakin wallstreet.
its a personal future savings account.

No one is stopping you from establishing a pesonal savings account. And no one will gurantee the safety of the personal savings account, no one except the Federal Government if your savings are in a FDIC protected account.

If, for example, you invested your life savings in Lehman Brothers you would have had no guarantee. When they went bankrupt in 2008 you would have lost everything.

Why is that so hard for some people to understand? Oh...yeah,

Anybody who put their life savings into a single investment is an idiot. We have lost everything in some investments we have made. Will have to relate those stories sometime. But we do our homework and spread the risk so the investments that go sour are only a minor setback and do not upset our long range goals.

Unfortunately, there is no way to be free and be in charge of your own destiny without allowing for a few idiots in the equation.

There is no guarantee that your employee would pay you the amount of FICA he contributes into your social security account either, but it is a guarantee that as long as the tax is required, he isn't going to pay that money to you. If you had that plus what you pay out of your paycheck and thoughtfully invested that for your working career, you retire a very wealthy person. Social security alone ensures you will retire as one of the nation's poorest citizens.

Those of us who have been in business for ourselves pay a hefty 15+% in self employment taxes and that takes a huge chunk of what we otherwidse would have had to invest in a private savings account.

Social Security is a bad deal for all concerned other than politicians who like to use our money to buy our votes. We can do better.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Those of us who have been in business for ourselves pay a hefty 15+% in self employment taxes and that takes a huge chunk of what we otherwidse would have had to invest in a private savings account..

The self-employed pay the same FICA taxes as anyone else. The employer share of FICA is part of overall compensation.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The money we have in real estate has beaten the rate of inflation many times over. And that inclludes the considerable loss in real estate value we've seen since the housing bubble crash.

We have taken some severe hits in our market investments, but they still continue to beat the rate of inflation many times over.

You have yet to show me how I can predict future rate of return, yet your entire argument is based on the ability to do that.

 

[Ed Spacer]

Also,when citizen investors dies,at any age,the SSN# closes,and the citizen future investment account closes,and remaining deposited funds,IN ITS ENTIRETY,are returned to the next of kin,or how legally designated by will,etc.

 

[Ed Spacer]

OPD
its guaranteed whatever you deposit,is what you get,as the government,nor corporations touch a citizen controlled account.

 

[Mr Natural]

OPD
its guaranteed whatever you deposit,is what you get,as the government,nor corporations touch a citizen controlled account.

So what you put in, you get out?

No growth?

Bad idea.

 

[Ed Spacer]

No,mr.clean.
you get 3%apy in the account.
what i am getting at,is their is,by citizen control,guarantee of at least getting back what you deposit.

 

[Ed Spacer]

No,mr.clean.
you get 3%apy in the account.
what i am getting at,is their is,by citizen control,guarantee of at least getting back what you deposit.

 

[Foxfyre]

Those of us who have been in business for ourselves pay a hefty 15+% in self employment taxes and that takes a huge chunk of what we otherwidse would have had to invest in a private savings account..

The self-employed pay the same FICA taxes as anyone else. The employer share of FICA is part of overall compensation.

I'm pretty sure that I said that. But the self-employed pay both the employees and the employers share. And that is 15+% of our income that is not available to us to invest or use for anything.

 

[sublime]

Imagine if we didn't have to contribute that 15% to SS, a lot more employers would have well funded pension plans for their employees huh....

 

[Ed Spacer]

Thats right.no more progressionism enforced,by the government onto the citizen.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

OPD
its guaranteed whatever you deposit,is what you get,as the government,nor corporations touch a citizen controlled account.

GUranteed by whom?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

No,mr.clean.
you get 3%apy in the account.
what i am getting at,is their is,by citizen control,guarantee of at least getting back what you deposit.

Is it 3% APY or 3% + inflation ? Make up your mind. Where does the money come from?