WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE A FUTURE PERSONAL INVESTMENT ACCOUNT,instead of government ...

[OohPooPahDoo]

I believe my social security contributions should go in to an account that I have control over. I should be able to invest it or assign an investment manager to handle investing it for me. The money in the account should be my property, the government should not be able to include it in the general fund and 'borrow' it as they do now. If I pass away before I collect my contributions the remaining balance should be transferred to my heirs.

How do we pay current beneficiares?

The leftists keep telling us the fund is solvent. Therefore, technically there is sufficient funds to pay current beneficiaries while those coming up can be gradually weaned off the system. If we don't do it, the whole thing collapses somewhere on down the line.

I agree with OohPoo except that I don't think the government should be collecting social security taxes at all, but should provide a means for all of us to establish our own tax free accounts as they do now with 401Ks, IRAs and such. Ditto with medical savings accounts that the people can draw from for their medical needs or, if they stay healthy, can use for anything they want after a time. What greater incentive would promote the general welfare than that?

And employers could choose to contribute to those tax free accounts as an extra employee benefit if they chose to do so. What greater incentive would attract quality people to work for you?

There are so many ways to accomplish the general welfare other than a nanny state or forcing people to do what they should be doing for themselves.

I still don't see where the money to pay current beneficiaries is supposed to come from when we divert FICA to private accounts. None of the private-account people seem to want to explain this to me. The Trust Fund itself would only last 4-5 years or so without FICA revenues.

 

[Ed Spacer]

Oohpadoo

Heres how it works.
the general fund is held.
no more tax,or SSA.
whars left in the general fund remaining..will be redistributed into new citizen future savings accounts,ten years worth,to geandfathered recepients,that is given to the same venefit amounts prior,but with the same guidelines of electivity as new investors.

Cases will be reevaluated.
any recepient obtaining benefits that has a selfinflicted source will not be grandfathered,and will be handled as a new investor. Current recepients cannot have a self inflicted malady,illness,behavior,etc.

Grandfathered recepients reapproved..
will have a ten year block of benefits deposited into their US treasury held citizen future investment account.
same monthly benefits as before.for ten years.
unlimited amount of additional private,elective investing.
unlimited amount of privately earned income.
as with new investors,same apy 3%,and after five years,can take any withdrawal amount as the investor chooses.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Oohpadoo

Heres how it works.
the general fund is held.

What does that mean "the general fund is held" ? do you even know what the "general fund" is?

no more tax,or SSA.
whars left in the general fund remaining..will be redistributed into new citizen future savings accounts,ten years worth,to geandfathered recepients,that is given to the same venefit amounts prior,but with the same guidelines of electivity as new investors.

Cases will be reevaluated.
any recepient obtaining benefits that has a selfinflicted source will not be grandfathered,and will be handled as a new investor. Current recepients cannot have a self inflicted malady,illness,behavior,etc.

Grandfathered recepients reapproved..
will have a ten year block of benefits deposited into their US treasury held citizen future investment account.
same monthly benefits as before.for ten years.
unlimited amount of additional private,elective investing.
unlimited amount of privately earned income.
as with new investors,same apy 3%,and after five years,can take any withdrawal amount as the investor chooses.

Can you write in complete sentences and express ideas in a coherent manner? Please just tell me where the money to pay current beneficiares will come from.

Thanks.

 

[Ed Spacer]

And grandfathered individuals will have the same complete cituzen cobtrol,abd can deposit in addition to what is deposired from the old SSA general fund.
no corporate or go vernment involvement.
citizen controlled.

 

[Rocko]

I would never open up an IRA or anything like that. Paying a penalty for taking your own money out SMFH.

Government bonds are the way to go, and realestate. Smart people buy expensive houses, in part to take loans out when retire..For me, that's the biggest perk in property.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Heres the question,board.
would you like to continually be raped by imposed FDR grade communist personal redistribution tax called SOCIAL SECURITY,where the government can redistribute to illegal aliens,payments to alcohol and drug addicts,and self inflicted maladies...

Or...

PERSONAL FUTURE SAVINGS INVESTMENT ACCOUNTS,where only US CITIZENS are able to participate ELECTIVELY,not imposed,whereas the US CITIZEN has complete control of their financial future without disbursement or interferance from the government?

1.my proposal i have thoughtfully created grants the elimination of the SSA,and the general fund.At eighteen years of age,each us citizen will be advised of the creation of a future citizen investment fund account.

2.each account will be created based on each individuals SSN.thats the account number. And options are advised-
A.it will be a US TREASURY held money market account with an APY of 3%.

3.the citizen,having full control of their future,will have the option to either VEST or NOT VEST.
and,also...
the frequency,amount,and type of vesting deposit,which the citizen can change at any time.
after five years,any citizen can make a withdrawal,and start reinvesting.after all,citizens,not government,will have control.
after age 65,citizens are fully vested,abd can receive mobthly draws off their investment without limitation to any amount of privately earned income.

Do you like it?

I like it. So basically, if I want to, I could put aside whatever percentage of my income I desire into an account with a guaranteed return of no more but no less than 3%?

I can put in 5% or 25% of my pay, its up to me?

The govt can't take that money out to pay for other things in the meantime before i'm retired?

Give me control of my money instead of the government and I'm happier. Right now I assume that the money I pay to social security I will never see again.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

And grandfathered individuals will have the same complete cituzen cobtrol,abd can deposit in addition to what is deposired from the old SSA general fund.
no corporate or go vernment involvement.
citizen controlled.

There isn't enough money to pay current beneficiaries from the trust fund for more than 5 years or so without FICA revenues. Do you understand this at all? SS is fundamentally a pay-as-you-go system, the trust fund only exists to act as a buffer between years with surpluses and years with deficits.

 

[Mr Natural]

Nobody's stopping yuou from having a personal account.

 

[Ed Spacer]

I have explained very coherantly.
right now,the SSA general fund holds $56 billion.
that would be divided amongst the reapproved geandfathered cases.
in deposits of 10 yearblock worth of benefits in wach individual accoubr,which thw grandfathered cases can still add to it and with the same rules applying for the complete electivity as with new citizen future investors.

 

[Foxfyre]

How do we pay current beneficiares?

The leftists keep telling us the fund is solvent. Therefore, technically there is sufficient funds to pay current beneficiaries while those coming up can be gradually weaned off the system. If we don't do it, the whole thing collapses somewhere on down the line.

I agree with OohPoo except that I don't think the government should be collecting social security taxes at all, but should provide a means for all of us to establish our own tax free accounts as they do now with 401Ks, IRAs and such. Ditto with medical savings accounts that the people can draw from for their medical needs or, if they stay healthy, can use for anything they want after a time. What greater incentive would promote the general welfare than that?

And employers could choose to contribute to those tax free accounts as an extra employee benefit if they chose to do so. What greater incentive would attract quality people to work for you?

There are so many ways to accomplish the general welfare other than a nanny state or forcing people to do what they should be doing for themselves.

I still don't see where the money to pay current beneficiaries is supposed to come from when we divert FICA to private accounts. None of the private-account people seem to want to explain this to me. The Trust Fund itself would only last 4-5 years or so without FICA revenues.

It is only going to last a few more years WITH FICA revenues. If we don't start privatizing the system or transferring it to the states to manage now, it will collapse under its own weight. We are already down to fewer than three workers supporting one now. And with the baby boomers beginning to retire in large numbers, that situation will rapidly become much worse.

Those currently drawing benefits will steadily decrease through attrition if we don't add more and more people as beneficiaries. And of course the program will have to be gradually phased out so as not to break faith with those who have already paid into it for years.

We may not have the will or courage to do it. But it is dumb to say it can't be done.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Give me control of my money instead of the government and I'm happier. Right now I assume that the money I pay to social security I will never see again.

Do you expect the U.S. Government will have no tax revenues when you retire?

How do we pay current SS beneficiares when we end the FICA tax?

magic?

 

[Ed Spacer]

Pilgrim,youre absolutely right.
anyways,rocko...
no corporate no government.
unless your a grandfathered case.
citizen funded citizen managed citizen controlled.
We get rid of all the selfinflicted disabilities and illegal aliens receiving benefits.
We have more to meet the needs of reevaluated grandfathered cases.
also saves $20 nbillion on operating costs eliminating the SSA abd the imposed fund.
this eliminates rhe FDR imposed redistribution,taxation,and empowers the cituzen without interferance to take charge of their own futures unvetted.

 

[Foxfyre]

Give me control of my money instead of the government and I'm happier. Right now I assume that the money I pay to social security I will never see again.

Do you expect the U.S. Government will have no tax revenues when you retire?

How do we pay current SS beneficiares when we end the FICA tax?

magic?

It has to be done slowly and carefully by increments just as it has accrued. But it can be done. The current pool of beneficiaries will steadily decrease by attrition if we don't substantially add to them. We transfer the disability portions to the states in return for allowing the states to keep more of their own money. That is easily paid for by not needing the massive Washington bureaucracy that absorbs much of the money.

We cut all spending that is now funded by funds raided from Social Security and start returning real money to the Social Security trust fund. Remember that 'lock box' Al Gore talked about? Of course it has never existed and he wouldn't have made one either, but the concept is a good one.

We can do this. All it takes is the will and courage to do it.

 

[Ed Spacer]

Imposed imperialist taxation and the variable of government misuse is eliminated.

 

[Ed Spacer]

Fox,read the transition.
it can be done.
and real.non self inflicted disabilities are made out better than before.
because under a citizen controlled elective system,better growth.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Give me control of my money instead of the government and I'm happier. Right now I assume that the money I pay to social security I will never see again.

Do you expect the U.S. Government will have no tax revenues when you retire?

How do we pay current SS beneficiares when we end the FICA tax?

magic?

It has to be done slowly and carefully by increments just as it has accrued.

No matter how slowly its done you can't avoid the fact that the taxpayers will be paying for current beneficiaries benefits while at the same time having some of their salary mandatorily transfered to their government investment accounts - thus having to pay for TWO retirements at once.

We can do this. All it takes is the will and courage to do it.

Why not just fix social security?

 

[Rocko]

There is always going to be some sort of SS system in place. Advocating getting rid of it, is going against the grain.

 

[Foxfyre]

Do you expect the U.S. Government will have no tax revenues when you retire?

How do we pay current SS beneficiares when we end the FICA tax?

magic?

It has to be done slowly and carefully by increments just as it has accrued.

No matter how slowly its done you can't avoid the fact that the taxpayers will be paying for current beneficiaries benefits while at the same time having some of their salary mandatorily transfered to their government investment accounts - thus having to pay for TWO retirements at once.

We can do this. All it takes is the will and courage to do it.

Why not just fix social security?

Why fix a system that is so flawed that it makes no sense at ANY level?

Why not understand that pyramid schemes are doomed from the outset as producing promised benefits.

Why not now encourage people to utilize a system by which they can almost guarantee an adequately funded retirement?

Why continue to prop up a system that barely provides a starvation subsistence if even that and even that is not guaranteed and could be revoked at any tme at a whim of Congress? A system that takes your money by force and then doles it out to you at a subsistance rate and, if you don't use it, confiscates it and your heirs can't benefit from it?

What possible motive could there be in continuing to force the elderly into poverty via social security when we could do so much better with a different system?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Why fix a system that is so flawed that it makes no sense at ANY level?

A lot of people with very nice websites agree with you but the fact of the matter is that there are some relatively simple fixes to social security.

Why not now encourage people to utilize a system by which they can almost guarantee an adequately funded retirement?

Almost guarantee? Which system is that?

 

[Ed Spacer]

Rocko,if we are going to save this nation..
the only way to do it is completely go against the gra in of what society has been dumbed down to.