WOW: Charlotte Police Dept- slashes to cops, no healthcare in retirement, etc!!!!

[ScienceRocks]

This isn't my fault...

The tax payers of charlotte should vote to increase their taxes. lol

 

[thereisnospoon]

Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Officers Struggle for Fair Wages | Law Enforcement Today

A friend from ATL works there now, and shared some stories. This link is a petition from a CMPD officer's wife. Anyhow, the City of Charlotte showed it's appreciation to the cops who risk their lives to protect that city by.....starting back in 2009 all newly hired cops will have no health insurance after they retire (required 30 years of service with CMPD). Yes, thats right. When a cop is hired in, say, 2010 by Charlotte PD, and serves 30 years (required) with that agency risking his life for the people of Charlotte, he can retire in the year 2040, and will be thanked with....well, nothing. No health insurance. They now have no overtime pay, even if they do work overtime. No step-increases in pay to retain experienced officers (crucial for law enforcement to keep experience on the road). No cost of living increases. Basically, the City of Charlotte's message to these brave folks? Well, the message is "Take the job and shove it. But please protect us!".

Funny though. An independent study found Charlotte had plenty of money to meet the budget that would've included the above cuts. But they just didnt. Why? Well, then needed to donate money to pet projects. Like a Street Car project. A minor league baseball team.

OH, and forgot one big one: The NFL's Carolina Panthers want stadium upgrades, and have demanded the city pay for it, about $150 million. And the city IS GOING TO DO IT.

Just some food for thought next time you need to dial 911 and the cop who shows up isn't in the best mood in the world. Or....is hesitant to risk his ass to protect you. Because afterall, if he gets hurt, who is gonna pay for his care in retirement??????

The cost to recruit, test, complete the background investigation and train a police officer is expensive; officers who have completed probation in an agency which hopes to save money by cutting pay, working conditions and/or benefits will soon find their officers working elsewhere.

Eventually such an agency will become a minor league one, filling open jobs all over the East Coast with men and women trained and experienced in Charlotte and putting on their streets individuals who could not secure employment in police work anywhere else (such as George Zimmerman).

You're 100% right. People have no clue what goes on that they dont read in the news. And unfortunately, you see over time cities that are great, and become shitty......or are shitty, and become a lot better. Lots of factos go into that, but, a great police department is definitely one of those. So, as a city loses experienced cops, criminals get more and more comfortable with crime as they see less consequence. And cities dont have hard borders. So friends of thugs get word, and they come to that city. While others cities, who invest in their cops, get rid of crime over time, business moves in, and things are great: Until the citizens, with that new low crime rate, feels they no longer need great cops who "do nothing all day" (thanks to their efforts to reduce crime) and they start making cuts...and the best of the cops they have leave for shitty cities who are offering more to attract good cops.


So, if any of you live in one of these cities that are slashing police budgets, well, start looking for a gradual increase in crime over the next few years. It may not directly affect you right away, or ever. But your kids? Yeah, probably gonna see a very different city in 10 years.

So, as Charlotte betrays their cops........their best and most qualified will find employment in cities that are actually trying to attract great cops...like the coastal NC and SC cities that are growing rapidly, and the Atlanta suburbs, who have historically stolen the best of Atlanta PD by offering better pay (and hence, the City of Atlanta is incredibly violent compared to the surrounding areas).

Betray? Oy vay.. Look, the biggest problem with crime in places like Charlotte is not the police. Rather it is the weakness of the DA's office AND the courts.
Particularly frustrating are these judges who set tragically low bonds for perps with felony charges on them.
And forget about property crimes. Most defendants unless they are repeat repeat repeat offenders are often released O.R.
I worked in loss prevention in a major chain dept store. I caught a couple walking out with about $500 worth of stuff. I called the mall security who detained( we could not, we were observe and report)..Who called CMPD. They brought them back to my office. THe PO looked at my video and while doing this the woman said to the effect that she wanted to get to the jail quickly so that she would not miss the dinner meal...Meaning, this was not her first rodeo.
Anyway, I was called to testify. She and her partner pleaded guilty. The judge told each one them that he knew this was not their first rodeo. As it turned out the male had a rap sheet the length of I-85 from Charlotte to Atlanta.....He got probation. So did she.
THAT is what makes a cop's job hard. When people do not respect and yes, FEAR the consequences of the system, the police are hamstrung.

 

[Wry Catcher]

It is not hard enough if Dorner could get hired.

Dorner was a Naval Officer in the US Navy (LT). Criminal, prick, asshole, murderer....yes.

But he was NOT uneducated or stupid.

Where the fuck did I say he was uneducated? I said he should not have been a cop, there is a difference, even if you are too stupid to see it.

The background investigation is extensive but not infallible.

 

[thereisnospoon]

This isn't my fault...

The tax payers of charlotte should vote to increase their taxes. lol

You must be kidding. They pay the highest property taxes in the state.
It's the city leaders who are to blame. They'd rather blow money on frills because strong law enforcement to them is a city "under siege".. And to them it presents a bad image.
It's like the auto manufacturers of the 1930's..The did not want to put safety belts in their cars although they knew it was a good idea, but they feared it would give the buying public the perception that their cars weren't safe.
Same thing goes with politicians. If there is a cop on every street corner, people will perceive the city as being unsafe.

 

[bucs90]

The cost to recruit, test, complete the background investigation and train a police officer is expensive; officers who have completed probation in an agency which hopes to save money by cutting pay, working conditions and/or benefits will soon find their officers working elsewhere.

Eventually such an agency will become a minor league one, filling open jobs all over the East Coast with men and women trained and experienced in Charlotte and putting on their streets individuals who could not secure employment in police work anywhere else (such as George Zimmerman).

You're 100% right. People have no clue what goes on that they dont read in the news. And unfortunately, you see over time cities that are great, and become shitty......or are shitty, and become a lot better. Lots of factos go into that, but, a great police department is definitely one of those. So, as a city loses experienced cops, criminals get more and more comfortable with crime as they see less consequence. And cities dont have hard borders. So friends of thugs get word, and they come to that city. While others cities, who invest in their cops, get rid of crime over time, business moves in, and things are great: Until the citizens, with that new low crime rate, feels they no longer need great cops who "do nothing all day" (thanks to their efforts to reduce crime) and they start making cuts...and the best of the cops they have leave for shitty cities who are offering more to attract good cops.


So, if any of you live in one of these cities that are slashing police budgets, well, start looking for a gradual increase in crime over the next few years. It may not directly affect you right away, or ever. But your kids? Yeah, probably gonna see a very different city in 10 years.

So, as Charlotte betrays their cops........their best and most qualified will find employment in cities that are actually trying to attract great cops...like the coastal NC and SC cities that are growing rapidly, and the Atlanta suburbs, who have historically stolen the best of Atlanta PD by offering better pay (and hence, the City of Atlanta is incredibly violent compared to the surrounding areas).

Betray? Oy vay.. Look, the biggest problem with crime in places like Charlotte is not the police. Rather it is the weakness of the DA's office AND the courts.
Particularly frustrating are these judges who set tragically low bonds for perps with felony charges on them.
And forget about property crimes. Most defendants unless they are repeat repeat repeat offenders are often released O.R.
I worked in loss prevention in a major chain dept store. I caught a couple walking out with about $500 worth of stuff. I called the mall security who detained( we could not, we were observe and report)..Who called CMPD. They brought them back to my office. THe PO looked at my video and while doing this the woman said to the effect that she wanted to get to the jail quickly so that she would not miss the dinner meal...Meaning, this was not her first rodeo.
Anyway, I was called to testify. She and her partner pleaded guilty. The judge told each one them that he knew this was not their first rodeo. As it turned out the male had a rap sheet the length of I-85 from Charlotte to Atlanta.....He got probation. So did she.
THAT is what makes a cop's job hard. When people do not respect and yes, FEAR the consequences of the system, the police are hamstrung.

Yes, "betrayed". Its common practice to make promises to new hires about great perks and benefits to make up for the fact you have ZERO chance of ever becoming rich, which is fine, no one signs up for the money. And then to strip away the benefits that made up for it....sucks. They should just come out and say "Here is the salary. Its not very good. You'll get no better benefits or retirment than you would working at McDonalds. Wanna go risk your life now?"


BUT....on your other topic, YES, you nailed it. The weak court system is a huge problem, for cops and society. You described it perfectly. I cant tell you how many career thieves and drug dealers I locked up, only to see them out within a week and never get more than yet-another round of probation. Very frustrating.

 

[Wry Catcher]

You're 100% right. People have no clue what goes on that they dont read in the news. And unfortunately, you see over time cities that are great, and become shitty......or are shitty, and become a lot better. Lots of factos go into that, but, a great police department is definitely one of those. So, as a city loses experienced cops, criminals get more and more comfortable with crime as they see less consequence. And cities dont have hard borders. So friends of thugs get word, and they come to that city. While others cities, who invest in their cops, get rid of crime over time, business moves in, and things are great: Until the citizens, with that new low crime rate, feels they no longer need great cops who "do nothing all day" (thanks to their efforts to reduce crime) and they start making cuts...and the best of the cops they have leave for shitty cities who are offering more to attract good cops.


So, if any of you live in one of these cities that are slashing police budgets, well, start looking for a gradual increase in crime over the next few years. It may not directly affect you right away, or ever. But your kids? Yeah, probably gonna see a very different city in 10 years.

So, as Charlotte betrays their cops........their best and most qualified will find employment in cities that are actually trying to attract great cops...like the coastal NC and SC cities that are growing rapidly, and the Atlanta suburbs, who have historically stolen the best of Atlanta PD by offering better pay (and hence, the City of Atlanta is incredibly violent compared to the surrounding areas).

Betray? Oy vay.. Look, the biggest problem with crime in places like Charlotte is not the police. Rather it is the weakness of the DA's office AND the courts.
Particularly frustrating are these judges who set tragically low bonds for perps with felony charges on them.
And forget about property crimes. Most defendants unless they are repeat repeat repeat offenders are often released O.R.
I worked in loss prevention in a major chain dept store. I caught a couple walking out with about $500 worth of stuff. I called the mall security who detained( we could not, we were observe and report)..Who called CMPD. They brought them back to my office. THe PO looked at my video and while doing this the woman said to the effect that she wanted to get to the jail quickly so that she would not miss the dinner meal...Meaning, this was not her first rodeo.
Anyway, I was called to testify. She and her partner pleaded guilty. The judge told each one them that he knew this was not their first rodeo. As it turned out the male had a rap sheet the length of I-85 from Charlotte to Atlanta.....He got probation. So did she.
THAT is what makes a cop's job hard. When people do not respect and yes, FEAR the consequences of the system, the police are hamstrung.

Yes, "betrayed". Its common practice to make promises to new hires about great perks and benefits to make up for the fact you have ZERO chance of ever becoming rich, which is fine, no one signs up for the money. And then to strip away the benefits that made up for it....sucks. They should just come out and say "Here is the salary. Its not very good. You'll get no better benefits or retirment than you would working at McDonalds. Wanna go risk your life now?"


BUT....on your other topic, YES, you nailed it. The weak court system is a huge problem, for cops and society. You described it perfectly. I cant tell you how many career thieves and drug dealers I locked up, only to see them out within a week and never get more than yet-another round of probation. Very frustrating.

The system is broken, that's for sure. County jails are full and many are under court order to reduce the population; probation can't supervise effectively and puts many offenders in banked caseloads; bench warrants for probation violation fill file drawers and half the time never make it to court before the offender is released on OR again.

 

[bripat9643]

I was hurt on the job, pretty bad, but not too severe to enjoy life now.

But, the "big city" vs "rural" cop debate has gone of forever within law enforcment. While big city cops have more people and overall crime, rural cops have almost no backup and are MUCH more independent and alone. In fact, rural cops often are BETTER COPS because they have to know how to do everything, while most big city guys specialize in one area.

The reality of police work today is every single cop in America goes to work, and none know if they are going in for their area's Columbine, or Dorner, or Sandy Hook, or mall shooting, or gang shooting, or recently a HUGE trend of suicidal people- and suicidal people are statistically the most homicidal.

Somewhere tomorrow a cop WILL get shot at. A few may die. They dont know that tonight, and most do NOT work for major city departments. Most are going to sleep, thinking tomorrow is just another day in a mid size city and some other guy across the state will be the one getting into some shit. Thats why a cops worst enemy truly is complacency.

The reality is that police work is less dangerous than being a construction worker, an oil worker a miner of a crab fisherman. there are dozens of jobs more dangerous than policed work, but you don't see people in these other professions expecting anyone to kiss their ass or feel sorry for them. If they don't like the terms of the deal, then they can get the fuck out.

 

[bripat9643]

You just can't get those kinds of benefits and pay in the private sector for a job that really doesn't require much education or training.

.

You just showed how fucking stupid you are on this issue with that single comment. You think being a cop, in a city the size of Charlotte, requires little education and training? Yep. Not worth discussing with you, you are that far out of the loop.

Yep, that's exactly what I think. How much training do cops do?

Oh, and you say you risked your life daily working construction? Ha. Sure. But you didnt have complete strangers calling you to come do construction on their house and risk your life for it. Or risk being shot.

No. I risked getting my leg sawed off or having a pre-stressed concrete double T beam fall on me and crush me. I say plenty of blood and gore when I worked Construction - a lot more than you ever saw, I'm certain.

There is a difference between getting hurt or killed on a construction site because you did something stupid and had an accident, and being literally murdered on the job trying to protect others.

It's usually because someone else does something stupid, moron. The electrician who got smashed by a concrete double T wasn't doing anything stupid. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Face it, you're a callous self-pitying moron.

o, let me guess: As a heroic construction worker, you must feel you do more for society than the non-combat troops in the military, right? Afterall, statistically, your job would be more "dangerous" than theirs, right? Hell, driving while DUI is "more dangerous", so that is more noble, right?

You fucking idiot.

We aren't discussing combat troops, jackass. We're discussing cops who spend more time at the doughnut shop then they do chasing down criminals. You won't find many construction workers with big bellies flopping over their belts, but you see plenty of cops who have em.

 

[bripat9643]

Wow. You sure know a LOT about police work cuckoo.

I did 8 years in Atlanta, all on patrol.

Where, and how long, did you spend in law enforcement to be able to get such an insightful knowledge of how the job really works, and what it is really like, and what most cops really do all day???????

I see what cops do all day. I don't have to be one to use my own eyes.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Police work actually ISN'T that dangerous. (It's not in the top 10.) Construction work is, as is my job (truck driver.) Note that the most common killer for cops is actually a car crash!

 

[thereisnospoon]

You're 100% right. People have no clue what goes on that they dont read in the news. And unfortunately, you see over time cities that are great, and become shitty......or are shitty, and become a lot better. Lots of factos go into that, but, a great police department is definitely one of those. So, as a city loses experienced cops, criminals get more and more comfortable with crime as they see less consequence. And cities dont have hard borders. So friends of thugs get word, and they come to that city. While others cities, who invest in their cops, get rid of crime over time, business moves in, and things are great: Until the citizens, with that new low crime rate, feels they no longer need great cops who "do nothing all day" (thanks to their efforts to reduce crime) and they start making cuts...and the best of the cops they have leave for shitty cities who are offering more to attract good cops.


So, if any of you live in one of these cities that are slashing police budgets, well, start looking for a gradual increase in crime over the next few years. It may not directly affect you right away, or ever. But your kids? Yeah, probably gonna see a very different city in 10 years.

So, as Charlotte betrays their cops........their best and most qualified will find employment in cities that are actually trying to attract great cops...like the coastal NC and SC cities that are growing rapidly, and the Atlanta suburbs, who have historically stolen the best of Atlanta PD by offering better pay (and hence, the City of Atlanta is incredibly violent compared to the surrounding areas).

Betray? Oy vay.. Look, the biggest problem with crime in places like Charlotte is not the police. Rather it is the weakness of the DA's office AND the courts.
Particularly frustrating are these judges who set tragically low bonds for perps with felony charges on them.
And forget about property crimes. Most defendants unless they are repeat repeat repeat offenders are often released O.R.
I worked in loss prevention in a major chain dept store. I caught a couple walking out with about $500 worth of stuff. I called the mall security who detained( we could not, we were observe and report)..Who called CMPD. They brought them back to my office. THe PO looked at my video and while doing this the woman said to the effect that she wanted to get to the jail quickly so that she would not miss the dinner meal...Meaning, this was not her first rodeo.
Anyway, I was called to testify. She and her partner pleaded guilty. The judge told each one them that he knew this was not their first rodeo. As it turned out the male had a rap sheet the length of I-85 from Charlotte to Atlanta.....He got probation. So did she.
THAT is what makes a cop's job hard. When people do not respect and yes, FEAR the consequences of the system, the police are hamstrung.

Yes, "betrayed". Its common practice to make promises to new hires about great perks and benefits to make up for the fact you have ZERO chance of ever becoming rich, which is fine, no one signs up for the money. And then to strip away the benefits that made up for it....sucks. They should just come out and say "Here is the salary. Its not very good. You'll get no better benefits or retirment than you would working at McDonalds. Wanna go risk your life now?"


BUT....on your other topic, YES, you nailed it. The weak court system is a huge problem, for cops and society. You described it perfectly. I cant tell you how many career thieves and drug dealers I locked up, only to see them out within a week and never get more than yet-another round of probation. Very frustrating.

I never said pensions, etc should end. The issue here is in their current system, they are not sustainable.
There are retirement benefits in the private sector. In those, the employee contributes a much higher percentage toward them than their public sector counterparts.
An example of the hysteria surrounding any mere mention of changing the status quo was two years ago in NJ when Gov Christie proposed the teacher's union members ncrease their contribution to I think 2% or so instead of zero. The reaction was incredible.
Watch this video and pay attention to Christie's explanation.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkuTm-ON904]Governor Christie Responds To Teacher During Town Hall - YouTube[/ame]
Now should states and cities go back on their agreements to fund pensions and benefits out of hand? No. However, economic conditions have changed. The well is empty. The idea that as one poster on here suggested, "well Charlotte should raise taxes", is no longer viable. True, this used ot be the pattern. Once again, Charlotte has the highest property taxes in the State. The county just did a revaluation and a tax increase. The reval is being challenged because so many properties were over valued for tax purposes while the market value has continued to fall.
The entire issue here is sustainability.

 

[bucs90]

Police work actually ISN'T that dangerous. (It's not in the top 10.) Construction work is, as is my job (truck driver.) Note that the most common killer for cops is actually a car crash!

Yep, driving 10 hours a day for a living is dangerous, whether you are a truck driver or cop. But how many truck drivers are ambushed and shot on duty?

Plus, cops recieve far more training than most people realize, which is one huge reason fewer of them die on duty. The past 20 years they've really stepped up the tactical training for cops, such as using tactical angles, cover vs concealment concepts, using better equipment, etc, etc. So the on duty danger certainly exists daily...but they handle it very well and prevent a lot of deaths through better training.

 

[bucs90]

Wow. You sure know a LOT about police work cuckoo.

I did 8 years in Atlanta, all on patrol.

Where, and how long, did you spend in law enforcement to be able to get such an insightful knowledge of how the job really works, and what it is really like, and what most cops really do all day???????

I see what cops do all day. I don't have to be one to use my own eyes.

Haha. Ok. Im gonna make you my new pet project to pick on, on all threads. Let the fun begin.

Ok, so you see cops "all day" and see everything they do. Like...probably eating lunch like, well, everyone does everyday. So, you admit, you have no damn clue what cops do all day, but, you do see them eating lunch? And then you say in another post that you never see fat construction workers? HAHA!!! Thats a classic.

THen you ask "how much training do cops" really do? Well, initial training is on average 35-50 total weeks before you are allowed to go on patrol. Yeah, almost an entire year. Bet that was longer than the training you needed. And, CALEA's national standards require a minimum 2 year degree, 4 year degree for ranks SGT and above. So, gotta have college education also if you are a CALEA certified agency (which almost any reputable department is). Then, once on the job, you go through annual "block training", and if you want to be on a special unit like SWAT or narcotics, you become the new guy all over again, and go through more training.


And then, of course, you bring up the "we arent talking about combat troops" argument. No, we aren't. Apples and oranges. But....heres a quiz for you: Which number his higher...the number of US troop deaths in the first year of the Afghan war from 2002-2003? Or the number of cops killed on duty in the US? You may find it hard to believe, but 90% of the past 30 years, more cops are killed on duty than military people are killed on duty, and there military is 3X larger than the number of cops (BTW, God Bless the troops, that stat is only true because we have been in "peacetime" for most of the past 30 years, I just bring it up to educate this moron Im discussing this with).

 

[bucs90]

We aren't discussing combat troops, jackass. We're discussing cops who spend more time at the doughnut shop then they do chasing down criminals. You won't find many construction workers with big bellies flopping over their belts, but you see plenty of cops who have em.

Got some raw stats for you dumbass, for 2013:

So far, in 2013, we have lost:

19 cops killed on duty in America: Law Enforcement Line of Duty Deaths in 2013
9 Coalition members killed in warzone of Afghanistant (4 U.S.): iCasualties: Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom Casualties

For the year 2008, halfway point of the wars:

153 cops were killed on duty in the US Law Enforcement Line of Duty Deaths in 2008
155 US troops were killed on duty in Afghanistan iCasualties: Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom Casualties

For the year 2002, invasion of Afghanistan:

49 US troops were killed in the Afghan invasion: iCasualties: Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom Casualties
159 US cops were killed on duty in America: Law Enforcement Line of Duty Deaths in 2002


So yeah, we aren't talking combat troops. In the heat of major wars, being a combat troop in a war zone is FAR more dangerous, not even comparable, to being a cop in the US. But overall, year to year, well, I'll let you look at the two links and do the math, then you can readjust your attitude about what cops "really do" that you know 100% for fact because you see them sometimes during your day of drinking beer at noon and reading NRA magazine.

 

[bucs90]

****Oh, and just to note- a huge number of cops are in fact ex-military, and many of them are ex-combat troops themselves, so they probably have a dual interest in this debate. Police work was truly a fascinating melting pot- I worked with former Marines, Rangers, a couple guys who almost got through SEAL school, as well as some former college football players, some former medical professionals, a former lawyer, a former doctor, all who got tired of the office environment. I worked with countless former employees of corporate America who just wanted something more exciting. Lots of current college grads who had no clue what they were getting into. In fact, very very few of the people I worked with fit the mold of the stereotypical obese cop with a doughnut in hand. BUT, a few of those exist, and the morons always want to take pictures and point to that one individual as evidence of what the force as a whole looks and acts like. Shameful.