YES, America CERTAINLY WAS FOUNDED as a CHRISTIAN NATION...

[UltimateReality]

Thomas Paine was denied burial in a Christian cemetery. Dr. Manley states that he was greatly distressed concerning his interment. Madame Bonneville says: "He wished to be buried in the Quaker burying ground. ... The committee of the Quakers refused to receive his body, at which he seemed deeply moved." A renunciation of his Infidel opinions -- a simple acknowledgment of Jesus Christ -- would have secured him a burial place in any Christian cemetery. He was buried on his farm.

What's your point? Paine was an angry ahole.

 

[UltimateReality]

Ultimate Reality is stumbing and bumbling right through the thread.

Projecting.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No one said Jefferson did not go to church. UR is telling a lie, a typical far extremist tactic to accuse someone of doing or saying something they did not.

I very much believe Jefferson is the type of man that would participate in this type of behavior. Just look how he lied about the US not being Christian in the Treaty of Tripoli to appease the Barbary Pirates.

Priceless! Hold up the Founders as saying we are a Christian nation and when they say something different, it's because they are "lying".

Hey Bodey, it was Starkey and Butch that claimed Jefferson's church going was a lie. I'm not surprised you missed the logical sarcasm of my post. You and your revisionist friends want to say that Jefferson would fake going to church to further his political career and appease the CHRISTIAN populace, but you don't even question the fact he could have exaggerated his statement about our government to the Barbary pirates to appease them. You guys love to insert YOUR imaginary motivations for the FF's and will flip flop willy nilly just so you maintain the party line to fit your false meta narrative.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Fact that UR is projecting his stumbling and bumbling on me.

Ultimate Reality is stumbing and bumbling right through the thread.

Projecting.

 

[UltimateReality]

You're not being honest in your argumentation and you're stumbling over your own comments.

I know you assess yourself as not, but I would say anyone who embraces the forcing of kowtowing to gods is in fact cramming it. Let's try it this way:

In 250 years (pretend you are still alive and healthy), the Arab population has swelled in the US to a whopping 72%. Islam is the majority religion. Congress, filled with Moslems, enacts a law: Henceforth, the word "God" will be replaced with "Allah (PBUH)" on all coin of the realm, both metal and paper.

Would you feel Islam was being forced down your throat?

If your answer is "Yes", then extrapolate it a few steps to me, and for millions of others who do not believe (or believe differently).

And now you can see why the exclusionary clause of the 1st Amendment should stand inviolate. You still have your freedom to worship as you please and I have the freedom to not.

How utterly fair and simple.

Omigosh you use flawed logic!!! Is anyone else buying this fallacious example??? Let's use an accurate comparison and see who agrees:

You flee Iran because you disagree with the Ayatollah's form of Islam that is being forced on everyone. You wind up landing on island and many more of your friends and others who have fled continue to arrive over the coming years. After about 100 years, the population of you and your Muslim friends has grown so much you decide to form a government. Everything is centered around Islam, but remembering the oppression you once suffered in Iran, you are determined to make sure that all MUSLIMS can practice ISLAM however they choose. Shiite's and Sunni's are all free to practice their form of Islam as they please. You institute a proud tradition of Sharia law, doing honor killings, cutting off thieves' hands and prohibiting woman from driving. When your little school children come in from a fun recess of pretending to be suicide bombers and killing infidels, they recite their pledge... "One nation under Allah". But then after 200 years, a small sect of Christians arrives. They start having 8 or 10 or even 12 kids. Next thing you know your island is over 60% Christian. These Christians start to rewrite the history books, and one of the very shrewd Christians, is even elected to president, all the while posing as a Muslim. This president even says Christians have always been a part of your island, even though a renegade group of these Christians just blew up two of your large monuments to Islam in the last few years. One of your Ayatollahs claims the fake Muslim president wasn't even born here but he is quickly silenced by the increasingly more corrupt Al Jazeera television. (But I digress ) These arrogant Christians start complaining that you can't behead homosexuals anymore because Allah loves them too. They pass laws that won't let you drag the female [half of the couple] caught in adultery out into the street so you can pop that wicked temptress in the back of the head with an AK-47 while the male who was caught in the act goes free. These Christians even encourage women to uncover their faces, and teach crazy things like, "In Christ, there is neither Jew nor Greek, Male or Female, somehow insinuating that everyone is equal in the eyes of their God. Instead of letting you blow your enemy to smithereens, their Rabbi teaches them to love their enemies and to pray for those that do them wrong. Eventually they get on the internet and start saying your Island was never Muslim to begin with, and they start trying to pass laws to get Allah off your coin, and remove Muhammad's image from all your public squares. It gets so bad that they start to persecute just Islam, embracing every other flavor of the day religion, while harassing your children at school. They pass rules that your children can no longer play with bomber vests, or pretend to slash infidels throats on the playground. They try to force your woman out of their black sheets and wear bikinis in public!!!

So the question is, would you feel that Christianity was being forced down your throat? If your answer is "yes", then take a few steps back with me. And now you can see how it all started with those Christians trying to rewrite your proud Islamic history. It started subtlety, but then grew into them saying it wasn't even Muslims that founded your island government. They started campaigns to remove the very mention of Muhammad from your government, until they got to the point where they began convincing everyone your Islamic tradition never even happened at all.

How utterly sinister and simple.

I'd hate to have anyone think that confused, irrevelant nonsense was my contribution.

No doubt the point of this story would go right over your head. The point was your lame analogy doesn't even begin to explain the revisionist movement in this country.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Paine was not a Christian.

You and Paine both share a great deal of unrequited anger.

Thomas Paine was denied burial in a Christian cemetery. Dr. Manley states that he was greatly distressed concerning his interment. Madame Bonneville says: "He wished to be buried in the Quaker burying ground. ... The committee of the Quakers refused to receive his body, at which he seemed deeply moved." A renunciation of his Infidel opinions -- a simple acknowledgment of Jesus Christ -- would have secured him a burial place in any Christian cemetery. He was buried on his farm.

What's your point? Paine was an angry ahole.

 

[UltimateReality]

Fact that UR is projecting his stumbling and bumbling on me.

Ultimate Reality is stumbing and bumbling right through the thread.

Projecting.

Funny you aren't addressing the points anymore, since you can't provide any evidence to support your claim Washington refused communion, so you are just left with a series of ad hominem attacks. Pathetic.

 

[Hollie]

Yes, but no one here is going to forget you claimed the word Lord was not in the Constitution. Everyone knows our date system is a direct reference to Christ. To deny that is absolute foolishness. "Year of our Lord" is a direct reference to Christ.

In your need to force hey-Zeus into the constitution, you are not understanding that in the context of that prior comment, I was referring to the FF's deliberate exclusion of any specific gods in the formulation of the constitution.

You have this desperate need to force your gods onto those around you. Fortunately, the constitution protects me from people like you by providing freedom from your religion.

You have a desperate need never to admit you are WRONG.

You are so desperate to insert your gods into the constitution that even an obligatory closing salutation is cause to promote your religion.

With all that had been posted in the thread, are you still hoping to make the not-so-subtle allusion to the FF's establishing a Christian nation? If that was the FF's intention, they clearly could have written out Yahweh, Horatio H Christ or a similar, unique identifier.

But they didn't.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The points are addressed above. UR is engaged in a far right extremist tactic of accusing someone of doing or saying something that s/he did not do or say. That is the tactic of a loser.

[UltimateReality;5866350]

Fact that UR is projecting his stumbling and bumbling on me.

Projecting.

Funny you aren't addressing the points anymore, since you can't provide any evidence to support your claim Washington refused communion, so you are just left with a series of ad hominem attacks. Pathetic.[/QUOTE]

 

[UltimateReality]

In your need to force hey-Zeus into the constitution, you are not understanding that in the context of that prior comment, I was referring to the FF's deliberate exclusion of any specific gods in the formulation of the constitution.

You have this desperate need to force your gods onto those around you. Fortunately, the constitution protects me from people like you by providing freedom from your religion.

You have a desperate need never to admit you are WRONG.

You are so desperate to insert your gods into the constitution that even an obligatory closing salutation is cause to promote your religion.

With all that had been posted in the thread, are you still hoping to make the not-so-subtle allusion to the FF's establishing a Christian nation? If that was the FF's intention, they clearly could have written out Yahweh, Horatio H Christ or a similar, unique identifier.

But they didn't.

Hollie, if I speak slower will you get it? No one is claiming the date promotes Christianity. You continue to argue against a strawman of your own fabrication.

 

[Hollie]

You have a desperate need never to admit you are WRONG.

You are so desperate to insert your gods into the constitution that even an obligatory closing salutation is cause to promote your religion.

With all that had been posted in the thread, are you still hoping to make the not-so-subtle allusion to the FF's establishing a Christian nation? If that was the FF's intention, they clearly could have written out Yahweh, Horatio H Christ or a similar, unique identifier.

But they didn't.

Hollie, if I speak slower will you get it? No one is claiming the date promotes Christianity. You continue to argue against a strawman of your own fabrication.

Your agenda is clear. You have a need and desire to have a connection with christianity tied to the constitution. That was not the intention of the FF's.

You were giddy with excitement that "lord" appeared as a closing salutation in the text of an amendment.

Contain your enthuaism. It was not what you hoped for.

 

[UltimateReality]

No one said Jefferson did not go to church. UR is telling a lie, a typical far extremist tactic to accuse someone of doing or saying something they did not.

I am not saying you said Jefferson didn't go to church. I said you said he went to church to fake people out and appease them. Geez!!! This is what I get for trying to argue logical points with high schoolers. You can't even remember what you wrote a couple pages back. Who can argue with someone that can't even follow the argument?

In other words, if a Virginian went into politics in VA, he was most likely going to be Anglican despite his real religious beliefs.

Didn't you just say Jefferson belonged to the "Anglican" church. This man that stood up for learning and independence would "appease" people by going to church? That just doesn't make sense.

If he wanted a political career, of course it did.

 

[UltimateReality]

You are so desperate to insert your gods into the constitution that even an obligatory closing salutation is cause to promote your religion.

With all that had been posted in the thread, are you still hoping to make the not-so-subtle allusion to the FF's establishing a Christian nation? If that was the FF's intention, they clearly could have written out Yahweh, Horatio H Christ or a similar, unique identifier.

But they didn't.

Hollie, if I speak slower will you get it? No one is claiming the date promotes Christianity. You continue to argue against a strawman of your own fabrication.

Your agenda is clear. You have a need and desire to have a connection with christianity tied to the constitution. That was not the intention of the FF's.

You were giddy with excitement that "lord" appeared as a closing salutation in the text of an amendment.

Contain your enthuaism. It was not what you hoped for.

You mistake the enthusiasm. If I showed enthusiasm, its because it proved you haven't even read the constitution and you were WRONG when you said it didn't contain a reference to God. Ha!!!

 

[UltimateReality]

Paine was not a Christian.

You and Paine both share a great deal of unrequited anger.

Thomas Paine was denied burial in a Christian cemetery. Dr. Manley states that he was greatly distressed concerning his interment. Madame Bonneville says: "He wished to be buried in the Quaker burying ground. ... The committee of the Quakers refused to receive his body, at which he seemed deeply moved." A renunciation of his Infidel opinions -- a simple acknowledgment of Jesus Christ -- would have secured him a burial place in any Christian cemetery. He was buried on his farm.

What's your point? Paine was an angry ahole.

How do you know it is unrequited??

 

[Hollie]

Hollie, if I speak slower will you get it? No one is claiming the date promotes Christianity. You continue to argue against a strawman of your own fabrication.

Your agenda is clear. You have a need and desire to have a connection with christianity tied to the constitution. That was not the intention of the FF's.

You were giddy with excitement that "lord" appeared as a closing salutation in the text of an amendment.

Contain your enthuaism. It was not what you hoped for.

You mistake the enthusiasm. If I showed enthusiasm, its because it proved you haven't even read the constitution and you were WRONG when you said it didn't contain a reference to God. Ha!!!

Specifically, the closing salutation was "in the year of our lord...", no mention of god(s). Yet another attempt to place your gods in the constitution.

Further, if you ever read the history surrounding the writing of the constitution, would should have been clear that the FF's chose not to include references to a specific god(s).

 

[JakeStarkey]

Paine could not accept Christ in the end, and you continue to argue as if you were not a Christian.

Paine was not a Christian.

You and Paine both share a great deal of unrequited anger.

What's your point? Paine was an angry ahole.

How do you know it is unrequited??

 

[JakeStarkey]

Now you are engaged in saying I said two things I did not say. You are a typical far right extremist in your dishonorable behavior.

Jefferson was not a Christian, end of story.

No one said Jefferson did not go to church. UR is telling a lie, a typical far extremist tactic to accuse someone of doing or saying something they did not.

I am not saying you said Jefferson didn't go to church. I said you said he went to church to fake people out and appease them. Geez!!! This is what I get for trying to argue logical points with high schoolers. You can't even remember what you wrote a couple pages back. Who can argue with someone that can't even follow the argument?

In other words, if a Virginian went into politics in VA, he was most likely going to be Anglican despite his real religious beliefs.

Didn't you just say Jefferson belonged to the "Anglican" church. This man that stood up for learning and independence would "appease" people by going to church? That just doesn't make sense.

If he wanted a political career, of course it did.

 

[JakeStarkey]

UR is pretending that he never argued that Paine, Jefferson, Franklin, and Allan were Christians.

His a typical far right extremist reactionary who accuses other people of saying things they didn't so that he can attack them.

He is fail as a poster here.

 

[Hollie]

Now you are engaged in saying I said two things I did not say. You are a typical far right extremist in your dishonorable behavior.

Jefferson was not a Christian, end of story.

No one said Jefferson did not go to church. UR is telling a lie, a typical far extremist tactic to accuse someone of doing or saying something they did not.

I am not saying you said Jefferson didn't go to church. I said you said he went to church to fake people out and appease them. Geez!!! This is what I get for trying to argue logical points with high schoolers. You can't even remember what you wrote a couple pages back. Who can argue with someone that can't even follow the argument?

If he wanted a political career, of course it did.

It's a misrepresentation to claim Jefferson was a Christian. In his bible, Jefferson dismisses two thirds of the trinity: Jesus as savior and the resurrection. What remains is a creator and not the Christian god.

He was a Deist.

 

[Crackerjack]

Typical. Your quotes have proved nothing because you have supplied no post numbers and no context.

No one is falling for your saintly act. You think no on will notice how you conveniently left out all your bullying quotes? Someone else brought up the fact I was a cop and discredited my service before I made mention of my unblemished record, so nice try on twisting the truth.

Lie.

Hollie, or whatever your name is, you seriously need to get a life. Got tired of spewing hate on the Muslims and thought you would try your hand at Creationists. Guess that works on some but this retired cop isn't falling for your lies and your fraudulent postings. I really seriously wonder what your real story is. I guess we will never know.

You brought it up, slapnuts.

I guess the whole not bearing false witness rule doesn't apply to you.

Click on the arrows next to the user names. It takes you right to the post.

I shouldn't be so surprised that you're this stupid ...