Yikes, sky dad...morals are absolute, though

[ding]

From moral laws we can know that nature has a preference for good.

 

[ding]

Man knows right from wrong and when he does wrong, rather than abandon the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes that he didn't do wrong.

 

[ding]

The moral law or virtue is not a human construct. It exists independent of man. This is why he cannot abandon it. He did not create it and he can't get rid of it. Which is why when he violates it rather than abandoning it, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it.

 

[hobelim]

This is how I see it. Since the stories are like fairy tales and fables it follows that they were intended as the word Torah suggests to instruct children.

While they may seem like fairy tales and fables (because they are, being embarrassingly disconnected from reality), they were and still are taken as absolute fact.

Yes, I agree, what Moses was teaching was set aside and lost to time probably ever since Moses died. However there is some evidence that secret teaching was passed down to initiates but deliberately being held back from comprehension by foreigners and even ordinary Jews as can be seen in the dead sea scrolls as a rule in the manual of discipline:

Of religious discussion.

No one is to engage in discussion or disputation with men of ill repute; and in the company of froward men everyone is to abstain from talk about (keep hidden) the meaning of the Law [Torah].

This seems to be what Jesus was arguing about by saying,"No one lights a candle and then hides it under a bushel"

Thats why some said, "Where did he get this teaching? " not because it was so amazing but because it was supposed to be kept secret especially from those who the religious elite perceived as being unclean, froward, or unrepentant 'sinners' like Jesus...

Jesus said that it was revealed to him by God. They knew there was no other possible explanation. They knew his family, where he grew up, what he was doing..... being tempted by the devil in the wilderness while living among the wild beasts, in other words living in non jewish areas presumably doing what romans do, not praying to a spaghetti monster in some orthodox community or chanting in a Buddhist monastery

I believe in literally zero of that dogshit hearsay, to me its no more credible than any other Epistemological dogma.

Believe or don't believe whatever you want. The quote from the manual of discipline is not hearsay. Its an actual ancient document that can be read by anyone detailing what could or could not be discussed with the uninitiated, including the specific directive to keep secret the hidden meaning of the law.

The document itself is hearsay, by definition. Scribing it doesnt make it any better than word of mouth.

Don't be ridiculous. It is a 2000 year old manual of instructions for members of a fanatical end of times religious sect that was active at the time of Jesus.

In it the community is instructed to keep secret the hidden teaching of the Law. Even initiates were forbidden to talk about the secret teaching amongst themselves until after they went through a two year examination period.


This fact explains everything......

 

[G.T.]

While they may seem like fairy tales and fables (because they are, being embarrassingly disconnected from reality), they were and still are taken as absolute fact.

Yes, I agree, what Moses was teaching was set aside and lost to time probably ever since Moses died. However there is some evidence that secret teaching was passed down to initiates but deliberately being held back from comprehension by foreigners and even ordinary Jews as can be seen in the dead sea scrolls as a rule in the manual of discipline:

Of religious discussion.

No one is to engage in discussion or disputation with men of ill repute; and in the company of froward men everyone is to abstain from talk about (keep hidden) the meaning of the Law [Torah].

This seems to be what Jesus was arguing about by saying,"No one lights a candle and then hides it under a bushel"

Thats why some said, "Where did he get this teaching? " not because it was so amazing but because it was supposed to be kept secret especially from those who the religious elite perceived as being unclean, froward, or unrepentant 'sinners' like Jesus...

Jesus said that it was revealed to him by God. They knew there was no other possible explanation. They knew his family, where he grew up, what he was doing..... being tempted by the devil in the wilderness while living among the wild beasts, in other words living in non jewish areas presumably doing what romans do, not praying to a spaghetti monster in some orthodox community or chanting in a Buddhist monastery

I believe in literally zero of that dogshit hearsay, to me its no more credible than any other Epistemological dogma.

Believe or don't believe whatever you want. The quote from the manual of discipline is not hearsay. Its an actual ancient document that can be read by anyone detailing what could or could not be discussed with the uninitiated, including the specific directive to keep secret the hidden meaning of the law.

The document itself is hearsay, by definition. Scribing it doesnt make it any better than word of mouth.

Don't be ridiculous. It is a 2000 year old manual of instructions for members of a religious sect that was active at the time of Jesus.

In it the community is instructed to keep secret the hidden teaching of the Law. Even initiates were forbidden to talk about the secret teaching amongst themselves until after they went through a two year examination period.


This fact explains everything......

That's circumstancial ~ it tells me nothing about the truth of any claims of the Religion itself, whatsoever.

There's secret clans and societies all over the woodlands of the United States right now, as we speak. Simply asserting claims doesn't equate to a rational reason to believe in their authenticity or truth value.

 

[hobelim]

Yes, I agree, what Moses was teaching was set aside and lost to time probably ever since Moses died. However there is some evidence that secret teaching was passed down to initiates but deliberately being held back from comprehension by foreigners and even ordinary Jews as can be seen in the dead sea scrolls as a rule in the manual of discipline:

Of religious discussion.

No one is to engage in discussion or disputation with men of ill repute; and in the company of froward men everyone is to abstain from talk about (keep hidden) the meaning of the Law [Torah].

This seems to be what Jesus was arguing about by saying,"No one lights a candle and then hides it under a bushel"

Thats why some said, "Where did he get this teaching? " not because it was so amazing but because it was supposed to be kept secret especially from those who the religious elite perceived as being unclean, froward, or unrepentant 'sinners' like Jesus...

Jesus said that it was revealed to him by God. They knew there was no other possible explanation. They knew his family, where he grew up, what he was doing..... being tempted by the devil in the wilderness while living among the wild beasts, in other words living in non jewish areas presumably doing what romans do, not praying to a spaghetti monster in some orthodox community or chanting in a Buddhist monastery

I believe in literally zero of that dogshit hearsay, to me its no more credible than any other Epistemological dogma.

Believe or don't believe whatever you want. The quote from the manual of discipline is not hearsay. Its an actual ancient document that can be read by anyone detailing what could or could not be discussed with the uninitiated, including the specific directive to keep secret the hidden meaning of the law.

The document itself is hearsay, by definition. Scribing it doesnt make it any better than word of mouth.

Don't be ridiculous. It is a 2000 year old manual of instructions for members of a religious sect that was active at the time of Jesus.

In it the community is instructed to keep secret the hidden teaching of the Law. Even initiates were forbidden to talk about the secret teaching amongst themselves until after they went through a two year examination period.


This fact explains everything......

That's circumstancial ~ it tells me nothing about the truth of any claims of the Religion itself, whatsoever.

There's secret clans and societies all over the woodlands of the United States right now, as we speak. Simply asserting claims doesn't equate to a rational reason to believe in their authenticity or truth value.

I agree. But if you found a book of rules for any secret group that outlines what they believe you would learn their secrets, what they believed and what they were doing, whether what they believed was true or not.

Obviously the dead sea community believed that there was hidden teaching in the law that they wanted to keep secret.

If you look and look and keep on looking for that hidden teaching you will find it.

 

[TNHarley]

I wonder if religion predates human imagination?

I wonder what it is that you have accomplished in life that makes you think you know so much.

Bless your little dingerred heart.
Dont want to discuss that question, do ya?

 

[G.T.]

I believe in literally zero of that dogshit hearsay, to me its no more credible than any other Epistemological dogma.

Believe or don't believe whatever you want. The quote from the manual of discipline is not hearsay. Its an actual ancient document that can be read by anyone detailing what could or could not be discussed with the uninitiated, including the specific directive to keep secret the hidden meaning of the law.

The document itself is hearsay, by definition. Scribing it doesnt make it any better than word of mouth.

Don't be ridiculous. It is a 2000 year old manual of instructions for members of a religious sect that was active at the time of Jesus.

In it the community is instructed to keep secret the hidden teaching of the Law. Even initiates were forbidden to talk about the secret teaching amongst themselves until after they went through a two year examination period.


This fact explains everything......

That's circumstancial ~ it tells me nothing about the truth of any claims of the Religion itself, whatsoever.

There's secret clans and societies all over the woodlands of the United States right now, as we speak. Simply asserting claims doesn't equate to a rational reason to believe in their authenticity or truth value.

I agree. But if you found a book of rules for any secret group that outlines what they believe you would learn their secrets whether they were true or not.

Obviously the dead sea community believed that there was hidden teaching in the law that they wanted to keep secret.

And it gets a rational mind exactly nowhere in-terms of said Religion having met the burden of proof that it is accurate in its claims of Humanity's Origins.

 

[hobelim]

Believe or don't believe whatever you want. The quote from the manual of discipline is not hearsay. Its an actual ancient document that can be read by anyone detailing what could or could not be discussed with the uninitiated, including the specific directive to keep secret the hidden meaning of the law.

The document itself is hearsay, by definition. Scribing it doesnt make it any better than word of mouth.

Don't be ridiculous. It is a 2000 year old manual of instructions for members of a religious sect that was active at the time of Jesus.

In it the community is instructed to keep secret the hidden teaching of the Law. Even initiates were forbidden to talk about the secret teaching amongst themselves until after they went through a two year examination period.


This fact explains everything......

That's circumstancial ~ it tells me nothing about the truth of any claims of the Religion itself, whatsoever.

There's secret clans and societies all over the woodlands of the United States right now, as we speak. Simply asserting claims doesn't equate to a rational reason to believe in their authenticity or truth value.

I agree. But if you found a book of rules for any secret group that outlines what they believe you would learn their secrets whether they were true or not.

Obviously the dead sea community believed that there was hidden teaching in the law that they wanted to keep secret.

And it gets a rational mind exactly nowhere in-terms of said Religion having met the burden of proof that it is accurate in its claims of Humanity's Origins.

The genesis account of the creation of heaven and earth are not claims about the creation of the universe, solar system, the earth or the origin of humanity.


Think deeply but keep it simple.. They were nomadic shepherds skilled in literature not science.

 

[G.T.]

The document itself is hearsay, by definition. Scribing it doesnt make it any better than word of mouth.

Don't be ridiculous. It is a 2000 year old manual of instructions for members of a religious sect that was active at the time of Jesus.

In it the community is instructed to keep secret the hidden teaching of the Law. Even initiates were forbidden to talk about the secret teaching amongst themselves until after they went through a two year examination period.


This fact explains everything......

That's circumstancial ~ it tells me nothing about the truth of any claims of the Religion itself, whatsoever.

There's secret clans and societies all over the woodlands of the United States right now, as we speak. Simply asserting claims doesn't equate to a rational reason to believe in their authenticity or truth value.

I agree. But if you found a book of rules for any secret group that outlines what they believe you would learn their secrets whether they were true or not.

Obviously the dead sea community believed that there was hidden teaching in the law that they wanted to keep secret.

And it gets a rational mind exactly nowhere in-terms of said Religion having met the burden of proof that it is accurate in its claims of Humanity's Origins.

The genesis account of the creation of heaven and earth are not claims about the creation of the universe, solar system, the earth or the origin of humanity.


Think deeply but keep it simple.. They were nomadic shepherds not scientists.

I suppose you were simply in error there when you said the genesis accounts were about the creation of earth but not about the creation of earth..

That aside, I dont much care about Genesis unless its met its burden of proof of accuracy, which it has not. That renders it literally meaningless to me, aside from these discussions and a curiousity of how some humans are so dogmatic.

 

[hobelim]

Don't be ridiculous. It is a 2000 year old manual of instructions for members of a religious sect that was active at the time of Jesus.

In it the community is instructed to keep secret the hidden teaching of the Law. Even initiates were forbidden to talk about the secret teaching amongst themselves until after they went through a two year examination period.


This fact explains everything......

That's circumstancial ~ it tells me nothing about the truth of any claims of the Religion itself, whatsoever.

There's secret clans and societies all over the woodlands of the United States right now, as we speak. Simply asserting claims doesn't equate to a rational reason to believe in their authenticity or truth value.

I agree. But if you found a book of rules for any secret group that outlines what they believe you would learn their secrets whether they were true or not.

Obviously the dead sea community believed that there was hidden teaching in the law that they wanted to keep secret.

And it gets a rational mind exactly nowhere in-terms of said Religion having met the burden of proof that it is accurate in its claims of Humanity's Origins.

The genesis account of the creation of heaven and earth are not claims about the creation of the universe, solar system, the earth or the origin of humanity.


Think deeply but keep it simple.. They were nomadic shepherds not scientists.

I suppose you were simply in error there when you said the genesis accounts were about the creation of earth but not about the creation of earth..

That aside, I dont much care about Genesis unless its met its burden of proof if accuracy, which it has not. That renders it literally meaningless to me, aside from these discussions and a curiousity of how some humans are so dogmatic.

You brought up their claims to the origins of humanity.


I told you that Genesis is not about the creation of the universe, the solar system, the planet or the first humans. I am not in error. If you have taken it literally, you are.

When God said "Let there be light." it is a metaphorical account of the law being given as a light to the nations in a world that had been without form and void, lawless, and darkness, ignorance, covered the face of the deep, the unknown, for billions of years.

The Law was spoken into existence, given to the Jews as alight to the nations, not to be kept secret for themselves.


Again, this is why Jesus said "no one lights a candle and then hides it under a bushel. He puts it on a lamp stand so that everyone in the room can see."

 

[G.T.]

That's circumstancial ~ it tells me nothing about the truth of any claims of the Religion itself, whatsoever.

There's secret clans and societies all over the woodlands of the United States right now, as we speak. Simply asserting claims doesn't equate to a rational reason to believe in their authenticity or truth value.

I agree. But if you found a book of rules for any secret group that outlines what they believe you would learn their secrets whether they were true or not.

Obviously the dead sea community believed that there was hidden teaching in the law that they wanted to keep secret.

And it gets a rational mind exactly nowhere in-terms of said Religion having met the burden of proof that it is accurate in its claims of Humanity's Origins.

The genesis account of the creation of heaven and earth are not claims about the creation of the universe, solar system, the earth or the origin of humanity.


Think deeply but keep it simple.. They were nomadic shepherds not scientists.

I suppose you were simply in error there when you said the genesis accounts were about the creation of earth but not about the creation of earth..

That aside, I dont much care about Genesis unless its met its burden of proof if accuracy, which it has not. That renders it literally meaningless to me, aside from these discussions and a curiousity of how some humans are so dogmatic.

You brought up their claims to the origins of humanity.


I told you that Genesis is not about the creation of the universe, the solar system, the planet or the first humans. I am not in error. If you have taken it literally, you are.

When God said "Let there be light." it is a metaphorical account of the law being given as a light to the nations in a world that had been without form and void, lawless, and darkness, ignorance, covered the face of the deep, the unknown, for billions of years.

I dont take it literally, and metaphorically its no more meaningful to me than the latest episode of CareBears I watched with my daughter.

There's not a single insight ....in the Bible or any other of the ancient texts that have been found........... about the course of living a human life that you couldnt, wouldnt happen upon simply by living it. Its not even the least bit interesting, in that sense. Well, in my opinion anyhow. There's no enlightenment to be had for me, there...that I didnt already learn or surmise.

 

[hobelim]

I agree. But if you found a book of rules for any secret group that outlines what they believe you would learn their secrets whether they were true or not.

Obviously the dead sea community believed that there was hidden teaching in the law that they wanted to keep secret.

And it gets a rational mind exactly nowhere in-terms of said Religion having met the burden of proof that it is accurate in its claims of Humanity's Origins.

The genesis account of the creation of heaven and earth are not claims about the creation of the universe, solar system, the earth or the origin of humanity.


Think deeply but keep it simple.. They were nomadic shepherds not scientists.

I suppose you were simply in error there when you said the genesis accounts were about the creation of earth but not about the creation of earth..

That aside, I dont much care about Genesis unless its met its burden of proof if accuracy, which it has not. That renders it literally meaningless to me, aside from these discussions and a curiousity of how some humans are so dogmatic.

You brought up their claims to the origins of humanity.


I told you that Genesis is not about the creation of the universe, the solar system, the planet or the first humans. I am not in error. If you have taken it literally, you are.

When God said "Let there be light." it is a metaphorical account of the law being given as a light to the nations in a world that had been without form and void, lawless, and darkness, ignorance, covered the face of the deep, the unknown, for billions of years.

I dont take it literally, and metaphorically its no more meaningful to me than the latest episode of CareBears I watched with my daughter.

There's not a single insight ....in the Bible or any other of the ancient texts that have been found........... about the course of living a human life that you couldnt, wouldnt happen upon simply by living it. Its not even the least bit interesting, in that sense. Well, in my opinion anyhow. There's no enlightenment to be had for me, there...that I didnt already learn or surmise.

Im sure there are many people who never read the bible already living kosher lives without even knowing it, without ever giving much thought to whats for dinner.

If you have already surmised or learned things of value being taught to the children of ancient nomads though scripture, how can you say there are no relevant insights, nothing enlightening or of value being taught?

 

[G.T.]

And it gets a rational mind exactly nowhere in-terms of said Religion having met the burden of proof that it is accurate in its claims of Humanity's Origins.

The genesis account of the creation of heaven and earth are not claims about the creation of the universe, solar system, the earth or the origin of humanity.


Think deeply but keep it simple.. They were nomadic shepherds not scientists.

I suppose you were simply in error there when you said the genesis accounts were about the creation of earth but not about the creation of earth..

That aside, I dont much care about Genesis unless its met its burden of proof if accuracy, which it has not. That renders it literally meaningless to me, aside from these discussions and a curiousity of how some humans are so dogmatic.

You brought up their claims to the origins of humanity.


I told you that Genesis is not about the creation of the universe, the solar system, the planet or the first humans. I am not in error. If you have taken it literally, you are.

When God said "Let there be light." it is a metaphorical account of the law being given as a light to the nations in a world that had been without form and void, lawless, and darkness, ignorance, covered the face of the deep, the unknown, for billions of years.

I dont take it literally, and metaphorically its no more meaningful to me than the latest episode of CareBears I watched with my daughter.

There's not a single insight ....in the Bible or any other of the ancient texts that have been found........... about the course of living a human life that you couldnt, wouldnt happen upon simply by living it. Its not even the least bit interesting, in that sense. Well, in my opinion anyhow. There's no enlightenment to be had for me, there...that I didnt already learn or surmise.

Im sure there are many people who never read the bible already living kosher lives without even knowing it, without ever giving much thought to whats for dinner.

If you have already surmised or learned things of value being taught to the children of ancient nomads how can you say there is no relevant insights, nothing of value being taught?

Because the way that it was presented pulled a lot of human lives away from their true potential. You do know folks devote their entire lives to believing theyre going to heaven and worshipping invisible/unproven things as a result, and believing in morally reprehensible things as well, as a result. And frivolous things, and experiencing a retardation of truly seeking answers. All i all, its a net negative but for the tautologies regarding life that are resolved with or without their fairy tale.

 

[hobelim]

The genesis account of the creation of heaven and earth are not claims about the creation of the universe, solar system, the earth or the origin of humanity.


Think deeply but keep it simple.. They were nomadic shepherds not scientists.

I suppose you were simply in error there when you said the genesis accounts were about the creation of earth but not about the creation of earth..

That aside, I dont much care about Genesis unless its met its burden of proof if accuracy, which it has not. That renders it literally meaningless to me, aside from these discussions and a curiousity of how some humans are so dogmatic.

You brought up their claims to the origins of humanity.


I told you that Genesis is not about the creation of the universe, the solar system, the planet or the first humans. I am not in error. If you have taken it literally, you are.

When God said "Let there be light." it is a metaphorical account of the law being given as a light to the nations in a world that had been without form and void, lawless, and darkness, ignorance, covered the face of the deep, the unknown, for billions of years.

I dont take it literally, and metaphorically its no more meaningful to me than the latest episode of CareBears I watched with my daughter.

There's not a single insight ....in the Bible or any other of the ancient texts that have been found........... about the course of living a human life that you couldnt, wouldnt happen upon simply by living it. Its not even the least bit interesting, in that sense. Well, in my opinion anyhow. There's no enlightenment to be had for me, there...that I didnt already learn or surmise.

Im sure there are many people who never read the bible already living kosher lives without even knowing it, without ever giving much thought to whats for dinner.

If you have already surmised or learned things of value being taught to the children of ancient nomads how can you say there is no relevant insights, nothing of value being taught?

Because the way that it was presented pulled a lot of human lives away from their true potential. You do know folks devote their entire lives to believing theyre going to heaven and worshipping invisible/unproven things as a result, and believing in morally reprehensible things as well, as a result. And frivolous things, and experiencing a retardation of truly seeking answers. All i all, its a net negative but for the tautologies regarding life that are resolved with or without their fairy tale.

Yes, I have noticed and yes I am just as appalled.


Then I started wondering why.

This is what I found out. It was deliberate.

Just like much of the OT, the NT was written during and after times of harsh oppression by people who witness the destruction of their nation, way of life, and the slaughter, exile and enslavement of hundreds of thousands of Jews.

To Jesus, his disciples and the authors of the gospels, "The nations" were the enemy.

When Jesus said that he came to bring a sword, he was referring to the sword in Jeremiah 25:15.


"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

See? the sword is a curse in a cup of wine.

Again in revelation 19:15,, "From his mouth there went a sharp sword with which to smite the nations."


So maybe the gospels weren't written because God loved the world so much...Maybe it was a first century version of a nuclear option taken by a decimated people...

 

[ding]

The genesis account of the creation of heaven and earth are not claims about the creation of the universe, solar system, the earth or the origin of humanity.


Think deeply but keep it simple.. They were nomadic shepherds not scientists.

I suppose you were simply in error there when you said the genesis accounts were about the creation of earth but not about the creation of earth..

That aside, I dont much care about Genesis unless its met its burden of proof if accuracy, which it has not. That renders it literally meaningless to me, aside from these discussions and a curiousity of how some humans are so dogmatic.

You brought up their claims to the origins of humanity.


I told you that Genesis is not about the creation of the universe, the solar system, the planet or the first humans. I am not in error. If you have taken it literally, you are.

When God said "Let there be light." it is a metaphorical account of the law being given as a light to the nations in a world that had been without form and void, lawless, and darkness, ignorance, covered the face of the deep, the unknown, for billions of years.

I dont take it literally, and metaphorically its no more meaningful to me than the latest episode of CareBears I watched with my daughter.

There's not a single insight ....in the Bible or any other of the ancient texts that have been found........... about the course of living a human life that you couldnt, wouldnt happen upon simply by living it. Its not even the least bit interesting, in that sense. Well, in my opinion anyhow. There's no enlightenment to be had for me, there...that I didnt already learn or surmise.

Im sure there are many people who never read the bible already living kosher lives without even knowing it, without ever giving much thought to whats for dinner.

If you have already surmised or learned things of value being taught to the children of ancient nomads how can you say there is no relevant insights, nothing of value being taught?

Because the way that it was presented pulled a lot of human lives away from their true potential. You do know folks devote their entire lives to believing theyre going to heaven and worshipping invisible/unproven things as a result, and believing in morally reprehensible things as well, as a result. And frivolous things, and experiencing a retardation of truly seeking answers. All i all, its a net negative but for the tautologies regarding life that are resolved with or without their fairy tale.

Objective truth is discovered through a conflict and confusion process. Everything works itself out in the end because error cannot stand. It seems to me that you want to bypass this process and go straight to homogenization of thought. Who are you to say what the best way to go through life is for everyone? Each person must make their own walk. I am more than happy for people to express their beliefs and to live their life accordingly. This is true for even people whose actions differ from their beliefs. Because I know there is a self compensating feature at work.

 

[G.T.]

I suppose you were simply in error there when you said the genesis accounts were about the creation of earth but not about the creation of earth..

That aside, I dont much care about Genesis unless its met its burden of proof if accuracy, which it has not. That renders it literally meaningless to me, aside from these discussions and a curiousity of how some humans are so dogmatic.

You brought up their claims to the origins of humanity.


I told you that Genesis is not about the creation of the universe, the solar system, the planet or the first humans. I am not in error. If you have taken it literally, you are.

When God said "Let there be light." it is a metaphorical account of the law being given as a light to the nations in a world that had been without form and void, lawless, and darkness, ignorance, covered the face of the deep, the unknown, for billions of years.

I dont take it literally, and metaphorically its no more meaningful to me than the latest episode of CareBears I watched with my daughter.

There's not a single insight ....in the Bible or any other of the ancient texts that have been found........... about the course of living a human life that you couldnt, wouldnt happen upon simply by living it. Its not even the least bit interesting, in that sense. Well, in my opinion anyhow. There's no enlightenment to be had for me, there...that I didnt already learn or surmise.

Im sure there are many people who never read the bible already living kosher lives without even knowing it, without ever giving much thought to whats for dinner.

If you have already surmised or learned things of value being taught to the children of ancient nomads how can you say there is no relevant insights, nothing of value being taught?

Because the way that it was presented pulled a lot of human lives away from their true potential. You do know folks devote their entire lives to believing theyre going to heaven and worshipping invisible/unproven things as a result, and believing in morally reprehensible things as well, as a result. And frivolous things, and experiencing a retardation of truly seeking answers. All i all, its a net negative but for the tautologies regarding life that are resolved with or without their fairy tale.

Yes, I have noticed and yes I am just as appalled.


Then I started wondering why.

This is what I found out. It was deliberate.

Just like much of the OT, the NT was written during and after times of harsh oppression by people who witness the destruction of their nation, way of life, and the slaughter, exile and enslavement of hundreds of thousands of Jews.

To Jesus, his disciples and the authors of the gospels, "The nations" were the enemy.

When Jesus said that he came to bring a sword, he was referring to the sword in Jeremiah 25:15.


"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

See? the sword is a curse in a cup of wine.

Again in revelation 19:15,, "From his mouth there went a sharp sword with which to smite the nations."


So maybe the gospels weren't written because God loved the world so much...Maybe it was their version of a nuclear option.

Eh, I dont much care why they were written and I dont care about Jesus or his life or if he existed or not whatsoever, either. The supernatural claims, metaphorical or literal, do nothing for my betterment intellectually and especially not morally.....Jenny McCarthy wrote a better book on Women's Pregnancy than the Bible serves as a roadmap for anyone's life.

 

[G.T.]

I suppose you were simply in error there when you said the genesis accounts were about the creation of earth but not about the creation of earth..

That aside, I dont much care about Genesis unless its met its burden of proof if accuracy, which it has not. That renders it literally meaningless to me, aside from these discussions and a curiousity of how some humans are so dogmatic.

You brought up their claims to the origins of humanity.


I told you that Genesis is not about the creation of the universe, the solar system, the planet or the first humans. I am not in error. If you have taken it literally, you are.

When God said "Let there be light." it is a metaphorical account of the law being given as a light to the nations in a world that had been without form and void, lawless, and darkness, ignorance, covered the face of the deep, the unknown, for billions of years.

I dont take it literally, and metaphorically its no more meaningful to me than the latest episode of CareBears I watched with my daughter.

There's not a single insight ....in the Bible or any other of the ancient texts that have been found........... about the course of living a human life that you couldnt, wouldnt happen upon simply by living it. Its not even the least bit interesting, in that sense. Well, in my opinion anyhow. There's no enlightenment to be had for me, there...that I didnt already learn or surmise.

Im sure there are many people who never read the bible already living kosher lives without even knowing it, without ever giving much thought to whats for dinner.

If you have already surmised or learned things of value being taught to the children of ancient nomads how can you say there is no relevant insights, nothing of value being taught?

Because the way that it was presented pulled a lot of human lives away from their true potential. You do know folks devote their entire lives to believing theyre going to heaven and worshipping invisible/unproven things as a result, and believing in morally reprehensible things as well, as a result. And frivolous things, and experiencing a retardation of truly seeking answers. All i all, its a net negative but for the tautologies regarding life that are resolved with or without their fairy tale.

Objective truth is discovered through a conflict and confusion process. Everything works itself out in the end because error cannot stand. It seems to me that you want to bypass this process and go straight to homogenization of thought. Who are you to say what the best way to go through life is for everyone? Each person must make their own walk. I am more than happy for people to express their beliefs and to live their life accordingly. This is true for even people whose actions differ from their beliefs. Because I know there is a self compensating feature at work.

I dont care what you say or think, and dont read most of your posts.

Like I said many times....I have no issue going through these convos with cordial folks like merriweather, hobelim etc...

You, though? I see through snakes pretty easily and I dont give 2 shits about your opinions.

 

[hobelim]

You brought up their claims to the origins of humanity.


I told you that Genesis is not about the creation of the universe, the solar system, the planet or the first humans. I am not in error. If you have taken it literally, you are.

When God said "Let there be light." it is a metaphorical account of the law being given as a light to the nations in a world that had been without form and void, lawless, and darkness, ignorance, covered the face of the deep, the unknown, for billions of years.

I dont take it literally, and metaphorically its no more meaningful to me than the latest episode of CareBears I watched with my daughter.

There's not a single insight ....in the Bible or any other of the ancient texts that have been found........... about the course of living a human life that you couldnt, wouldnt happen upon simply by living it. Its not even the least bit interesting, in that sense. Well, in my opinion anyhow. There's no enlightenment to be had for me, there...that I didnt already learn or surmise.

Im sure there are many people who never read the bible already living kosher lives without even knowing it, without ever giving much thought to whats for dinner.

If you have already surmised or learned things of value being taught to the children of ancient nomads how can you say there is no relevant insights, nothing of value being taught?

Because the way that it was presented pulled a lot of human lives away from their true potential. You do know folks devote their entire lives to believing theyre going to heaven and worshipping invisible/unproven things as a result, and believing in morally reprehensible things as well, as a result. And frivolous things, and experiencing a retardation of truly seeking answers. All i all, its a net negative but for the tautologies regarding life that are resolved with or without their fairy tale.

Yes, I have noticed and yes I am just as appalled.


Then I started wondering why.

This is what I found out. It was deliberate.

Just like much of the OT, the NT was written during and after times of harsh oppression by people who witness the destruction of their nation, way of life, and the slaughter, exile and enslavement of hundreds of thousands of Jews.

To Jesus, his disciples and the authors of the gospels, "The nations" were the enemy.

When Jesus said that he came to bring a sword, he was referring to the sword in Jeremiah 25:15.


"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

See? the sword is a curse in a cup of wine.

Again in revelation 19:15,, "From his mouth there went a sharp sword with which to smite the nations."


So maybe the gospels weren't written because God loved the world so much...Maybe it was their version of a nuclear option.

Eh, I dont much care why they were written and I dont care about Jesus or his life or if he existed or not whatsoever, either. The supernatural claims, metaphorical or literal, do nothing for my betterment intellectually and especially not morally.....Jenny McCarthy wrote a better book on Women's Pregnancy than the Bible serves as a roadmap for anyone's life.

Lol, can't say that I blame you but you must have noticed that people who amount to being mentally ill, driven mad by those silly stories, have usurped positions of moral authority even though they are themselves wholly immoral.

Whatever you think about scripture this fact might actually adversely affect your life.

 

[G.T.]

I dont take it literally, and metaphorically its no more meaningful to me than the latest episode of CareBears I watched with my daughter.

There's not a single insight ....in the Bible or any other of the ancient texts that have been found........... about the course of living a human life that you couldnt, wouldnt happen upon simply by living it. Its not even the least bit interesting, in that sense. Well, in my opinion anyhow. There's no enlightenment to be had for me, there...that I didnt already learn or surmise.

Im sure there are many people who never read the bible already living kosher lives without even knowing it, without ever giving much thought to whats for dinner.

If you have already surmised or learned things of value being taught to the children of ancient nomads how can you say there is no relevant insights, nothing of value being taught?

Because the way that it was presented pulled a lot of human lives away from their true potential. You do know folks devote their entire lives to believing theyre going to heaven and worshipping invisible/unproven things as a result, and believing in morally reprehensible things as well, as a result. And frivolous things, and experiencing a retardation of truly seeking answers. All i all, its a net negative but for the tautologies regarding life that are resolved with or without their fairy tale.

Yes, I have noticed and yes I am just as appalled.


Then I started wondering why.

This is what I found out. It was deliberate.

Just like much of the OT, the NT was written during and after times of harsh oppression by people who witness the destruction of their nation, way of life, and the slaughter, exile and enslavement of hundreds of thousands of Jews.

To Jesus, his disciples and the authors of the gospels, "The nations" were the enemy.

When Jesus said that he came to bring a sword, he was referring to the sword in Jeremiah 25:15.


"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

See? the sword is a curse in a cup of wine.

Again in revelation 19:15,, "From his mouth there went a sharp sword with which to smite the nations."


So maybe the gospels weren't written because God loved the world so much...Maybe it was their version of a nuclear option.

Eh, I dont much care why they were written and I dont care about Jesus or his life or if he existed or not whatsoever, either. The supernatural claims, metaphorical or literal, do nothing for my betterment intellectually and especially not morally.....Jenny McCarthy wrote a better book on Women's Pregnancy than the Bible serves as a roadmap for anyone's life.

Lol, can't say that I blame you but you must have noticed that people who amount to being mentally ill, driven mad by those silly stories have usurped positions of authority..

Whatever you think about scripture this fact might actually adversely affect your life.

Yeah, I totally agree which is why anytime these discussions come up it's important to spread the word of the burden of proof not being met, and letting our rational minds sit at the forefront of our life decisions rather than some dogmatic beliefs which have not met said burden.

I listened to an interesting commentary by a Biblical scholar yesterday that said something to this effect: If the morality prescribed in the Bible for Christians had not been yanked forward and revised by secular humanity over the years, there would be zero Christians in the world today.

Thats a testament to human morality and reasoning, versus dogmatic ones.